new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[minimum]

erpm = pole pairs * rpm the cyclone has 12 magnets or 6 pole pairs. My controller supposedly does 50k+, maybe 65K erpm or 8,300+ rpm. The motor is like 50KV afaik so I shouldn't be exceeding that.

It looks like the Astroflight 3220 would be a badass motor. Not sure which controller I'd use though. I have no experience using RC ESCs for ebikes. I'd like to overvolt that motor for really serious power.

Cyclone motor has 8 magnets on rotor and 12 stator slots, which makes 4 pole pairs. 50k/4=12,5k rpm max.

 

[gman1971]

erpm = pole pairs * rpm the cyclone has 12 magnets or 6 pole pairs. My controller supposedly does 50k+, maybe 65K erpm or 8,300+ rpm. The motor is like 50KV afaik so I shouldn't be exceeding that.

It looks like the Astroflight 3220 would be a badass motor. Not sure which controller I'd use though. I have no experience using RC ESCs for ebikes. I'd like to overvolt that motor for really serious power.

Cyclone motor has 8 magnets on rotor and 12 stator slots, which makes 4 pole pairs. 50k/4=12,5k rpm max.

I think the motor is closer to 70 kV, maybe 68 or so kV, mine is a hair short of 900RPM at shaft at 75.5V unloaded... so 130V x 70 = 9100 rpm...

G.

 

[flat tire]

I stand corrected, that's good to know about the E-RPM headroom.

Yeah, I got around 70KV when calculating the performance from my own ratios, but the charts on the russian site confused me as his seems to be around 50kv. I guess his motor has slightly higher reduction ratio than 4.9:1, what is going on there?

 

[gman1971]

I stand corrected, that's good to know about the E-RPM headroom.

Yeah, I got around 70KV when calculating the performance from my own ratios, but the charts on the russian site confused me as his seems to be around 50kv. I guess his motor has slightly higher reduction ratio than 4.9:1, what is going on there?

Reduction AFAIK is 6:1 hence why super high RPMs are overkill, you're creating way too much reduction at the planetary to put any further reduction in the chains... so you need to overdrive with a large cog to make up some of that 6:1 reduction.

G.

 

[markz]

What is your guys' distance on the cyclone vs geared or direct drive for the same variables (terrain, cargo etc) ?
I have one battery I use for my dd that I swap over to my cyclone, but I noticed there was a connection loose on one of my battery modules, so I am down 1/2 a battery now. Which explains why I was getting way less mileage on C4k vs dd. So on low Turn count ~4T I think, motor is dd with 24Ah on a 9c clone I could easily get ~35km, wondering it should be exactly the same with c4k, same v, same ah, same terrain cargo etc.

 

[gman1971]

What is your guys' distance on the cyclone vs geared or direct drive for the same variables (terrain, cargo etc) ?
I have one battery I use for my dd that I swap over to my cyclone, but I noticed there was a connection loose on one of my battery modules, so I am down 1/2 a battery now. Which explains why I was getting way less mileage on C4k vs dd. So on low Turn count ~4T I think, motor is dd with 24Ah on a 9c clone I could easily get ~35km, wondering it should be exactly the same with c4k, same v, same ah, same terrain cargo etc.

Never used a hub, but I had an old 500W GNG Gen2 before and I was getting around 25 Wh/mile on my eBike. Later I switched to the Cyclone 3000W and Wh/mile went up to 45 Wh/mile, but my cruising speed went from barely 20mph to riding 30mph all day long.

G.

 

[GIGATT]

Pardon me, has anyone ever rode a Cyclone 3000 in the rain? If yes, What can I do to avoid frying it? Is the silicone mentioned below suffice?

Thanks

Jake,

there are 2 obvious pathways for water entry. Atmospheric water vapor gets into chambers having the smallest of holes over time and condenses to water when the case gets cold -- well sealed camera bodies may use a silica gel capsule to collect this small amount of moisture. The C-3000 is not well sealed against water vapor entry nor is it water resistant to road spray entry. Water entry access is reduced after sealing the phase wires entry grommet [inside and outside] with silicone or polyurethane. But a machinist told me just because the motor cap is hard to get on the motor cylinder that difficulty is no measure of a good seal on the outer rim of the motor case. You need a gasket and/or sealant around the cap rim.

Some thoughts on the origin of the minerals inside the case? They were put there by Cyclone Agents to get us to buy more motors? My new motors had no minerals inside as they were clean as a whistle after inspection with cap removed. Any other conspiracy theories?

Condensed water vapor purity is likely close in purity to that of distilled water. I doubt whether distilled water affects aluminum but at higher temps? At temps of 100 C? No I say. Country surface water usually contains various readily soluble minerals of especially calcium and some potassium but little sodium and maybe some phosphorus. All sorts of minerals travel with surface and vadose waters. After these contaminated waters enter the motor cylinder the water boils off [or sublimates] as water vapor with enough pressure to exit the case through small holes when the motor gets hot leaving the minerals inside. Some of these mineral salts like street applied sodium chloride do slowly corrode aluminum.

 

[gman1971]

I have 2800 miles on my Cyclone eBike, which went through one Wisconsin frozen winter with motor completely exposed to snow, ice, salt, rain, mud, you name it, and it was "clean as a whistle" after 3 years when I opened it for measuring things inside.

Then I have 7500 miles on my eTrike, motor not exposed to direct weather anymore, but it was completely exposed during last 2016-17 Wisconsin winter, the motor was sparkling clean upon opening it for inspection of the hall sensors.

So no, you probably won't need anything especial unless you plan on doing deep water riding... just make sure your cables are sealed, and your connectors are weatherproofed, otherwise the motor might be the least of your problems if things short out.

G.

Pardon me, has anyone ever rode a Cyclone 3000 in the rain? If yes, What can I do to avoid frying it? Is the silicone mentioned below suffice?

Thanks

Jake,

there are 2 obvious pathways for water entry. Atmospheric water vapor gets into chambers having the smallest of holes over time and condenses to water when the case gets cold -- well sealed camera bodies may use a silica gel capsule to collect this small amount of moisture. The C-3000 is not well sealed against water vapor entry nor is it water resistant to road spray entry. Water entry access is reduced after sealing the phase wires entry grommet [inside and outside] with silicone or polyurethane. But a machinist told me just because the motor cap is hard to get on the motor cylinder that difficulty is no measure of a good seal on the outer rim of the motor case. You need a gasket and/or sealant around the cap rim.

Some thoughts on the origin of the minerals inside the case? They were put there by Cyclone Agents to get us to buy more motors? My new motors had no minerals inside as they were clean as a whistle after inspection with cap removed. Any other conspiracy theories?

Condensed water vapor purity is likely close in purity to that of distilled water. I doubt whether distilled water affects aluminum but at higher temps? At temps of 100 C? No I say. Country surface water usually contains various readily soluble minerals of especially calcium and some potassium but little sodium and maybe some phosphorus. All sorts of minerals travel with surface and vadose waters. After these contaminated waters enter the motor cylinder the water boils off [or sublimates] as water vapor with enough pressure to exit the case through small holes when the motor gets hot leaving the minerals inside. Some of these mineral salts like street applied sodium chloride do slowly corrode aluminum.

 

[ebike11]

@gman and fellow 3000ers..does anyone know where to get a crankset bolt? I think its M12 but all of the bolts I have are quite short. I feel not enough threads are entering the ISIS BB. Id like to use at least a bolt that is 25% longer than normal. Its quite an essential bolt. I found an FSA one but its aluminum not steel

 

[gman1971]

@gman and fellow 3000ers..does anyone know where to get a crankset bolt? I think its M12 but all of the bolts I have are quite short. I feel not enough threads are entering the ISIS BB. Id like to use at least a bolt that is 25% longer than normal. Its quite an essential bolt. I found an FSA one but its aluminum not steel

I got a replacement one at the local bike shop at the repair section, they had a few spares there... if you don't have enough threads perhaps you need to hammer it in with a rubber mallet, it should be able to tighten all the way to the metal spacer, and not strip. I have 3 ISIS BBs and all thread all the way in.

 

[ebike11]

@gman and fellow 3000ers..does anyone know where to get a crankset bolt? I think its M12 but all of the bolts I have are quite short. I feel not enough threads are entering the ISIS BB. Id like to use at least a bolt that is 25% longer than normal. Its quite an essential bolt. I found an FSA one but its aluminum not steel

I got a replacement one at the local bike shop at the repair section, they had a few spares there... if you don't have enough threads perhaps you need to hammer it in with a rubber mallet, it should be able to tighten all the way to the metal spacer, and not strip. I have 3 ISIS BBs and all thread all the way in.

Gman..after double checking I just discovered that the motor driven sprocket doesnt line up with the 48T outer chainring. Its off just enough to make the chain come off whenever the motor is engaged.
So I need to actually slide the whole crankset assembly outward about 4mm in order to get the chain to line up. I hate having to do that because i want as much contact as possible with the BB splines and inside of the crank arm.
Do you have any other suggestions besides a spacer? I had to find a spacer to go over the BB splines so when the crank arm is placed on it the crank arm with press up against the spacer aloowing the chainring and driven sprocket to line up evenly
Thanks again!

 

[markz]

The motor gear sprocket can move a bit either way, not sure if that helps you.

Another idea is to use washers on the crank gear itself, not sure if that was mentioned or not.

I dont think its wise to move the entire crank outward on the BB shaft itself, not sure if thats what you meant.

The last solution is to get a slightly wider bottom bracket.

Those are your options. So I'd try all of the 3 above mentioned "fixes" in the order I just mentioned.

If the outter crank gear is used for the motor sprocket then the flush mount nuts used in the BCD could be optimized or replaced with longer ones. When I say BCD its those holes in the crank gear itself used for mounting. So I cant envision what they look like right now without looking at them, but if there is a bolt, longer bolt and washers.

 

[minimum]

Gman..after double checking I just discovered that the motor driven sprocket doesnt line up with the 48T outer chainring. Its off just enough to make the chain come off whenever the motor is engaged.
So I need to actually slide the whole crankset assembly outward about 4mm in order to get the chain to line up. I hate having to do that because i want as much contact as possible with the BB splines and inside of the crank arm.

If I understand it correctly, your motor is too far left side, in relation to driven sprocket, right?
Between right/working side motor bracket and motor are two ~12mm (from memory, may be off few mm) high bushings - you could replace those with a stack of M6 washers so your motor would move outward. And if I remember correctly, there were some washers within BB/3-chainring assembly which allowed some adjustment depending how and where you put those.

 

[ebike11]

The motor gear sprocket can move a bit either way, not sure if that helps you.

Another idea is to use washers on the crank gear itself, not sure if that was mentioned or not.

I dont think its wise to move the entire crank outward on the BB shaft itself, not sure if thats what you meant.

The last solution is to get a slightly wider bottom bracket.

Those are your options. So I'd try all of the 3 above mentioned "fixes" in the order I just mentioned.

If the outter crank gear is used for the motor sprocket then the flush mount nuts used in the BCD could be optimized or replaced with longer ones. When I say BCD its those holes in the crank gear itself used for mounting. So I cant envision what they look like right now without looking at them, but if there is a bolt, longer bolt and washers.

Oh i didnt know that the motor sprocket can move. I dont see anywhere that it can be adjusted?

 

[ebike11]

Gman..after double checking I just discovered that the motor driven sprocket doesnt line up with the 48T outer chainring. Its off just enough to make the chain come off whenever the motor is engaged.
So I need to actually slide the whole crankset assembly outward about 4mm in order to get the chain to line up. I hate having to do that because i want as much contact as possible with the BB splines and inside of the crank arm.

If I understand it correctly, your motor is too far left side, in relation to driven sprocket, right?
Between right/working side motor bracket and motor are two ~12mm (from memory, may be off few mm) high bushings - you could replace those with a stack of M6 washers so your motor would move outward. And if I remember correctly, there were some washers within BB/3-chainring assembly which allowed some adjustment depending how and where you put those.

Actually id like to replace those bolt and cyclinder shaft nuts that the bolts screw into for just standard bokts and locknuts. The ones that come with the 3 piece chainring always loosen up. There is nothing to grab onto on the backside of the bolt/cyclinder hardware to make it super tight. Had anyone replaced those stock hardware?

 

[gman1971]

I had a similar problem on my eBike, the thing woudn't line up... so I added spacers to the BB to shift it outwards, is IMO a more robust solution than adding a few washers to the crank, which will also increase the lever and force at the crank freewheel when power is applied... JMO.

G.

 

[ebike11]

I had a similar problem on my eBike, the thing woudn't line up... so I added spacers to the BB to shift it outwards, is IMO a more robust solution than adding a few washers to the crank, which will also increase the lever and force at the crank freewheel when power is applied... JMO.

G.

Do you have the cyclone crankset? If so..did your chainring bolts come loose? When i try to tighten mine the bolt in nut just spin. That tubular nut that the bolt screws into has no where to grab onto to get it really tight

 

[Chalo]

Do you have the cyclone crankset? If so..did your chainring bolts come loose? When i try to tighten mine the bolt in nut just spin. That tubular nut that the bolt screws into has no where to grab onto to get it really tight

There's a tool for that:

 

[ebike11]

Oh thx didnt even know about that...mine rusted pretty quick though is there a particular name for those nut cyclinders and tool?

 

[gman1971]

I had a similar problem on my eBike, the thing woudn't line up... so I added spacers to the BB to shift it outwards, is IMO a more robust solution than adding a few washers to the crank, which will also increase the lever and force at the crank freewheel when power is applied... JMO.

G.

Do you have the cyclone crankset? If so..did your chainring bolts come loose? When i try to tighten mine the bolt in nut just spin. That tubular nut that the bolt screws into has no where to grab onto to get it really tight

Those nuts that mate different cranks together are hex bolts, I can wrench them with an allen wrench.

G.

 

[Chalo]

is there a particular name for those nut cyclinders and tool?

They're chainring nuts, and a widely available version of the tool is Park CNW-2.

 

[ebike11]

is there a particular name for those nut cyclinders and tool?

They're chainring nuts, and a widely available version of the tool is Park CNW-2.

Yes i searched chainnuts but only see short ones. For the cyclone 3 chainring set..the chainribg nuts are quite long

 

[gman1971]

I've been using a regular hex tool and a wide flathead screwdriver to hold the back and tighten those since I've been wrenching Cyclone eBikes together in 2015... those have been on my eBike for years without ever coming off...

G.

 

[ebike11]

I've been using a regular hex tool and a wide flathead screwdriver to hold the back and tighten those since I've been wrenching Cyclone eBikes together in 2015... those have been on my eBike for years without ever coming off...

G.

Yes im doing the same but they seem to back off at times. When i periodically tighten all essential bolts before rides I notice that the hex bolt/nut shaft turn all togther. I figure locknuts and steel bolts with loctite would be better

 

[gman1971]

is there a particular name for those nut cyclinders and tool?

They're chainring nuts, and a widely available version of the tool is Park CNW-2.

Yes i searched chainnuts but only see short ones. For the cyclone 3 chainring set..the chainribg nuts are quite long

I would contact Paco at Cyclone to get more of those... or where you can find those... if they keep coming lose, use a generous drop of blue loctite on them. I wouldn't use red as red is probably too strong and you might ruin the the keyed side with the screwdriver trying to pry it open

G