new eZip motor

[DrkAngel]

I get the sinking feeling that you are still dogging improperly geared motors up hills.
Using 200% the power to climb at 50% the speed of a "properly" geared eBike?
Needlessly using-wasting 400% the battery ... damaging-destroying every eBike component!
and\or
Approaching hills improperly-poorly-unwisely?
Did you ever read the link to my "Attack them Hills!"?

 

[DAND214]

I get the sinking feeling that you are still dogging improperly geared motors up hills.
Using 200% the power to climb at 50% the speed of a "properly" geared eBike?
Needlessly using-wasting 400% the battery ... damaging-destroying every eBike component!
and\or
Approaching hills improperly-poorly-unwisely?
Did you ever read the link to my "Attack them Hills!"?

Doesn't have time to read, beer first then the hill.

As you approach any hill you don't slow down, you speed up and if needed pedal to assist the motor to reach or keep a fast enough speed to not over heat it. Over geared setups are more prone to over heat, since you never get the speed it should be running at.

AS I asked many times before. Why do we try to help and why don't you listen?

As for the torque arms, if you did it before you should be able to do it again.
Your Sure lucky you paid attention when you learned to ride a bike. We can't help you there.

Dan WHY?

 

[latecurtis]

I get the sinking feeling that you are still dogging improperly geared motors up hills.
Using 200% the power to climb at 50% the speed of a "properly" geared eBike?
Needlessly using-wasting 400% the battery ... damaging-destroying every eBike component!

The bike is geared for 20mph. It climbed up the same hill last week without blowing a fuse. Heat however makes sense as not only could I not see the balancer, the controller and switch was all covered in plastic bags as it was raining and did not want water getting inside my controller. It was not raining when I went downtown but started when I got there. I covered all my electronics before I started drinking and on the trip home. The heat had no place to go with plastic bags over everything. It was catch 22. Either excess heat or rain drops inside my controller. However the bike did make it back home and still works. I have an 80 amp fuse taped to the wires now. :lol:

Also check out that voltage today after that close to three mile trip. down from 4.17V which they normally drop to several hours after a full charge. I am out of solder but will solder the fuse on it when I get solder. I taped it on downtown but it got so hot it slipped from the electrical tape. That's why I had to run it part way home with no fuse. I will try it again on the same hill when it is not raining and see how it does. I will shoot a video.

The thing is though it seems like every time I want or need to be somewhere it rains. I am getting really sick of it. That is why I have to stop fooling around with e bikes and buy myself a pick up truck. When it rains or snows I can still get where I need to go. Today is my birth day. I am 51 years old.

I am going on youtube to see how to install the torque arms. I want to get it right as if this hub motor is geared to go up hills it will be my best bet for downtown and the other bike can be for up around here. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

I have an 80 amp fuse taped to the wires now. :lol:

Damn! Just as I predicted-feared!

 

[latecurtis]

I will get solder tonight. I can walk there. Also I just watched this video but it seems like parts are missing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhGswPRYY2w


Will I need the U washers as I already made one to fit? or should I replace it with one of those? Why are there two in my kit and none in the kit on the video?

 

[latecurtis]

That's good Nelson 37. But the difference is what Stephen has been trying to do I have been there and done that. It was an old hobby I already MASTERED. It has nothing to do with e bikes. Just like the 110 gallon aquarium I built out of plywood with three plexiglass panels in the front which I had running for two years in my old apartment. It had built in plumbing and the filtration system actually fertilized the hydroponic system back then. I had awesome river fish including small mouth bass, rock bass, bluegill and a river eel. I have build my own computers and subwoofer boxes you cant imagine. I am not Stephen. Yes I feel bad for him too so you should go see your friend instead of sitting there comparing him to me. 8)

The 20" bike is 533W running at 22V and geared for 20mph. It is not overgeared and I climbed the same hills before but it was not raining and the controller was not covered in plastic. The bike still runs and has over 10 miles on it now. I blew a fuse. Not the end of the world. Right now I just want to get the torque arms on this Diamondback and do it right the first time.

If DA is right about the 16 mph gearing it should walk right up those hills with no problem. The only thing though is I will be using 48V SLAs at 10AH. I already know that 20AH is minimum for the application but do not wish to run 8 SLAs and currently only have six. 48V@10AH will have to do even if it is greater than or = to 2C discharge rate. Please let me know about the torque arms so I can get the Diamondback built. The video shows how to install it but dont have the two U washers. It is not clear where two U washers go. Only one would be needed to replace the one I made with the hacksaw, not two. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

The washer you cut is not flat inside like the C-washers in the pic. The flats will help the shoulders on the axle to put pressure on the fork flats. just because the video doesn't show them use at least the one on the inside to help the wires from being cut.
Did you watch the video DA posted? Also have you checked the rotation direction of the motor as listed?
Might be a dumb question but is the round shoulder that the wires come out from pushed all the way into the hub motor. In some motors they can move out and cut the wires also.
There are more videos than you have posted.

I still don't understand why your packs are discharging just sitting, if I charge mine to 4.20 they can stay there for weeks which is not good, so I discharge them if I don't get a chance to ride same or next day. I have made the mistake a few times like that and try not to.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

I still don't understand why your packs are discharging just sitting, if I charge mine to 4.20 they can stay there for weeks which is not good, so I discharge them if I don't get a chance to ride same or next day. I have made the mistake a few times like that and try not to.

Most likely reason is my LIPO packs are of a lower quality than the ones you use. I will replace the washer I cut with the one from the kit I guess. I don't get the part about the washer I cut not being flat though. It looks flat to me. Like a normal washer that has simply been cut. I will post a picture of the install before tightening it down to make sure I am doing it perfect. It is a very important step and I realize that. I don't want my wheel falling off.

Also I would like the bike running this week. Thanks and I will be mounting it after I get back from Wall-Mart with the solder to solder that fuse. I just taped it on just in case I had to make a short trip somewhere before I got the solder but I don't so I will post the pics of the torque arm install when I return from my 2.6 mile walk for my heart. Thanks for posting. All you guys. I enjoy Nelson37s stories about his friend Stephen. It is kind of sad but entertaining. I sent him a PM. I hope it helps him out. Thanks and will post later.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

The question is Will it go 40 mph with 2,000W total or will it still be over geared ?

2000w at the wheels will get you about 42-43mph.

However, this will require approximately 3000w at the battery. On a 44v pack this is 68A. That's harder than it sounds, because to get no sag, you need REALLY high quality packs or enormous packs to keep the drain under 1C, and wires designed for maybe 3-4 times that if it's anything longer than about a foot.

Even a 20A pack 68A is 3.5C, which is enough to seriously sag most Hobby type LiPo packs.

Let me ask you a question. I asked it about 6 months ago, but I never got an answer. I'm pretty sure if you don't answer this question to satisfy my curiousity, I'm going to start losing interest in this thread: "Is your goal a 40/50 whatever mph bike by any method, or must it be by using an ungeared chain driven motor"? I think if you were serious about getting 40mph by any means possible, I'd be keen on continuing to help you out. If it has to be by attaching a chain drive - especially without variable gearing, I'm starting to lose interest in this method. I have minimal knowledge around this area, and I can't see it being a viable method for myself, so I'm somewhat disinterested.

 

[DAND214]

You answer 1 question, the battery.
Did you look at the install of the motor DA sent???
take the cut washer and lay it on top of the C washer. If you don't see the difference, please don't finish the build and go to the eye doctor :lol:
I would put one on both side of the motor so they are bigger than the flats on the motor axle, if not use one of the tabbed washer on the other side of the wired side.

Dan

BS not PS :lol: have much to say, or questions but in most cases you don't listen or response. So WHY?

 

[latecurtis]

Any method possible for 40 mph. I could get a 60V or 72V controller for the Hub motor you sent but a 20 ah pack at that voltage will be quite pricey.

However I may compromise half way on this. Since there already is a chain driven 48V 1,000W motor on the back why not a 1,500W motor on the front of the 24" bike. The hub motor must be geared for 40 mph though and the chain driven motor on the back will need a 13T motor sprocket to replace the 11T for 40 mph gearing.

A 24" hub kit will work but 26" is too big for the 20" wheel on the rear. With a 24" wheel on the rear there will be no room for the motor. I will need different forks on the front for disk brakes also. It would be my best bet but where will I find a 1,500W 24" front hub kit geared for 40 mph? Please let me know as four 10.0 6s packs could work. Two in series for each motor. Much cheaper than a 60 or 72V 20AH pack. Not sure if a single throttle would work though but if so it will be ideal. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

No DAN I think I missed the video however will look for it as soon as I get back from Wall-Mart with worms for the eels and solder. Thanks.

As to why I am not sure. I have a lot on my mind I guess. Computers, multiple builds. possible moving, looking for a truck, lots of friends, Pirates Tides of Fortune, drinking. ect. I got to take my BP pills and get to stepping. I need to exercise. any mechanical advantage wont accomplish that. Thanks. Later.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

I have nothing against 40-50-60mph+

I'm merely appalled at the lack of reasoning or safety considerations in heaping ~350lb on a junked cheapo bike designed for a 90lb grade schooler and ripping it apart with the torque required to push-pull it to 50mph.

Throw in such comments as "I have no use for front brakes" or "planning ahead is more important than brakes" etc. and it's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

 

[DrkAngel]

I have nothing against 40-50-60mph+

I'm merely appalled at the lack of reasoning or safety considerations in heaping ~350lb on a junked cheapo bike designed for a 90lb grade schooler and ripping it apart with the torque required to push-pull it to 50mph.

Throw in such comments as "I have no use for front brakes" or "planning ahead is more important than brakes" etc. and it's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Now, while everyone likes a good trainwreck ... I have to go on record as opposing his methods!

 

[DAND214]

I have nothing against 40-50-60mph+

I'm merely appalled at the lack of reasoning or safety considerations in heaping ~350lb on a junked cheapo bike designed for a 90lb grade schooler and ripping it apart with the torque required to push-pull it to 50mph.

Throw in such comments as "I have no use for front brakes" or "planning ahead is more important than brakes" etc. and it's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Haven't we heard that before :lol: :lol:

Dan

 

[Sunder]

Any method possible for 40 mph. I could get a 60V or 72V controller for the Hub motor you sent but a 20 ah pack at that voltage will be quite pricey.

 

[Sunder]

Okay, next question.

Are you going to Frank Sinatra us and sing "My Way", or are you going to actually get the help you need be successful?

Because if you're going to sing Frank Sinatra, I'd like to change one line for you:

And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain

I've lived a life that's full
I've traveled [strike]each and every[/strike] one highway and died
But more, much more than this
I did it my way

 

[latecurtis]

Ok. I was thinking about the 80 amp fuse on the way home. The controller is rated for 2 kilowatts and 25V * 80A = 2 kilowatts.

There is no way under any circumstance a 36V 800W motor running at 24V and 533W should blow that 80A fuse. The fuse is the proper rating for the controller.

When I first had the Currie it came with a 24V controller and two 10AH SLAs. I went up steeper hills than that with a little pedal assist and never blew the factory fuse. I also TOTALLY abused the batteries placing the bike up against a wall and engaging the throttle until every last bit of energy was spent and the SLAs were completely DEAD. Not once but THREE times as I did not know any better as it was before I joined this forum and the manual that came with the Currie stated three FULL discharges for breaking the SLAs in. The SLAs lasted over a year and I never blew a fuse climbing a hill or full throttle.

There is absolutely no reason why four of these 10AH SLAs that have not been abused 1/10 the amount the two original SLAs were should not last over a year on the Diamondback with the 850W hub motor. If top speed is 16mph with the gearing it should do fine up hills and if I try to keep it around 10 to 12 mph on the flat I should not need to replace them until a year from now if I run them two or three times a week.

The difference between me and DA. is he uses math, graphs and other forms of scientific data to determine the functionality and performance of motors and batteries. This is really good and why I try to absorb as much of that information as I can. I on the other hand go by actual experience and history of what has happened to batteries, motors and controllers in the past when running the bikes. Also I now use balancers and the multimeter when dealing with SLAs.

I feel that to accurately predict what will happen in real world situations DAs data and real actual experience must both be used to obtain a more accurate prediction of what works and what does not work. For example where is the evidence of a 20" BMX type e bike frame breaking during normal operation with a 200+ lb person riding it. I hit a good 4" pothole at 20 mph with a butchered compromised fork last year on the Diamondback and it did not break. I did not wish to push my luck though and replaced the fork anyways though.

The original Currie motor failed AFTER it was converted to 36V and 675W climbing a hill much steeper than the one I climbed yesterday. It still did not blow the fuse but the coils in the motor are burnt and wires inside the controller melted and needed replacement after that happened. It was the old 36V controller I did the video on running it awhile it was on fire. :lol: Please explain again why I am blowing 40 amp slow blow fuses! Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

As I have pointed out ... numerous times! ...
Motor output watts is not a measure of battery to controller input amps!

Amps is the only factor in a fuse blowing.
1V 40A (40w) or 60V 40A (2400w) can both blow a 40A fuse.
Errr ... Amps is the only factor in a fuse blowing, if properly connected.

Fuses "blow" based on heat!
Given your preference for twisting wires and tape ...
I have the, I think, reasonable fear that you were too lazy to connect the fuse with properly soldered wires or connectors! ... Hmmm?
Electricity, flowing through a poor connection, arcs, producing extreme heat ...
Ever heard of arc welding ?

Necessary repeat ... from same page!

Oops ... page changed.
Necessary to repeat same info - same day!

 

[latecurtis]

Thanks DA. I am starting to understand it I guess. Check your private messages.
I sent one to nelson37 also but is still in outbox. Not sure why. Maybe you can contact him.

I still have to find the video you posted on the installation of the torque arms. Going to do that now. Also got to feed my eels. I got them worms and they look kind of hungry. :lol: Can hardly wait to get that bike running. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

BY, BY, DA. Since you don't know what LC knows.

You are drunk again?

You are so stubborn you are chasing all your support away.
Sunder seems to be leaving, I'm kinda certain DA will be after reading that post. And me if you don't wise up and stop being such a SOB as I stated before.

I think one of my post didn't post. I said to take the cut washer and put it on top of a C washer, if you don't see the difference, you need to see an eye doctor.
Put a c washer on the inside where the wires are to make them clear the fork. Also if there is room to put one of the tabbed one on the other side. Also just because the video doesn't show the C washer there are other videos that do. The C washers were really designed for the lawyer lips on many of the forks now made.
Also check hub rotation on the hub, it might show a arrow on it.

I sure wouldn't use a front wheel chain drive to do 40+. When the chain jumps, you will be jumping if you want or not.

Look at the link that DA went out of his way to find!!!!!

On to the reason the original batteries lasted as long as they did. Maybe because they were the correct cells for the job. As told many times, Cheap costs as much as more than the more costly things do. ASk many here how they know, Because we learned the hard way and trying to teach others not to do that.

IO could go on for a while with the things that have bothered me with what you do and why you constantly ask the same questions repeatedly, why you ask are we sure and many more. I follow this trying to help but I do like to read other posts to learn and help if I can. the only way to be able to help is to learn first. So I have to go and learn some more.

Dan

 

[Sunder]

You never mentioned whether you were going to do it your way or you'd take advice, but here's how I'd do it:

1. Start off with a very good base. Dual suspension, dual hydraulic brakes a must. Downhill bike strongly preferable.

2. Get a Crystalyte HS4040. Strong Direct Drive Motor

3. Get two 20Ah 72V Batteries premade and parallel them.

4. Get an FOC or Sinewave Controller that can handle 40A @ 72v

5. Win.

The bike above should be capable of a little over 60km/h depending on battery state, and should get you at least 40 miles on full throttle. Something like that would be rock solid reliable. A good BMS will make sure you don't abuse the battery, and there's no chains or gears to break or strip, nothing that needs service on the electrical side.

Think about it. You have a good windfall now, so you can buy quality once, or you can buy cheap, and buy a dozen times and drip feed the bike over months or years.

 

[Sunder]

One other thing to add, if the Crystalite 4040 is too expensive or 72v packs are too hard to get, then you can consider the 4065. It's a cheaper motor, not built for quite the same power (This has been tested by other Endless-Spherers to get to 65mph on >100v packs), but it can get to 41mph @ 48v.

However, at 48v, you'll be needing much higher amperage controllers, wiring and connectors.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. I found it first!! :lol: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:20 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-HPC-Crystalyte-The-Crown-GEARLESS-e-bike-Electric-Bike-Hub-Motor-60-MPH-/181161301492?hash=item2a2e0e15f4:g:8McAAOxyzfNRwfP0

I found that motor pages ago. That was my idea and I was the first to find that motor. I was thinking about ordering it back then.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPC-Crystalyte-TC-The-Crown-Laced-26-Direct-Drive-Electric-Bicycle-Hub-Motor/181500798055?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3D3cfb0f7321a541b7a03959f0e3f0766f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181161301492


Thanks Sunder. You are right. However at this point in time I have to think about the needs of two people instead of the selfish needs of myself. My ol lady is 73 and really wants me to buy a truck or a car so she can get out of the house, shopping, doctors, family out of town. ect. That means that the money I could spend on the hub motor you recommended is going for a gas powered vehicle. She has helped me out more than anybody and stuck by me for over two years awhile I waited for my disability. I hate any gas powered vehicle but it is simply the right thing to do.

Also I have to move to a larger first floor apartment as not only is it difficult for me carrying bikes up the stairs but we have too much stuff and she don't want to get rid of her things and I don't want to get rid of my bikes and also she HATES the neighborhood and the people down stairs.

$5,000 - $1500 for vehicle and $500 insurance and motor vehicles = $2,000. + $1500 to move = $3,500 minimum.

Since it will be a used vehicle I should keep $1,000 in the bank for emergency repairs. That leaves about $500 to build a 40+ mph e bike. That is why I have been looking to do it the cheapest way possible.

For now I am just going to build the Diamondback with the new hub motor and I will have three bikes running counting the Schwinn. I have everything I need to accomplish that. All I need is flat steel bars from Home Depot for the rear rack to hold four of the SLAs. I posted a picture of the rack yesterday.the steel bars will run less than $10 and I even have a large basket on the back of the 20" bike with the new fuse to haul them home. I don't have to take a bus.

Basically you guys have talked some sense into me and am willing to wait for a really fast bike so I can do it right like you said. So please keep posting when you can. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPC-Crystalyte-TC-The-Crown-Laced-26-Direct-Drive-Electric-Bicycle-Hub-Motor/181500798055?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3D3cfb0f7321a541b7a03959f0e3f0766f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181161301492


I was going to order it last year when I got my first settlement but because I did not want to spend $600 to $800 on batteries and lord knows how much for a controller I did not.

It is one hell of a motor though.

http://emtb.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=92

Yea the 4040 is the cheap version. The Crown rules and have had my eye on it for awhile. Don't count me out yet as I am so glad you reminded me of my dream hub motor. If I can manage to get a good running vehicle cheaper than $1,500 or say $1,000 and manage to move for under $1,000. I will have plenty of money for that motor. Basically what I am saying is that very could be my next motor.

The Crown motor has some really stiff competition though. It may not be the baddest hub motor. What do you think. Is the crown better than this motor,

http://www.zelenavozila.com/#!cromotor/c1ger