new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns

I have been painting all the wood black on my e bikes. It looks much better.

I have a quick question.

Even though I succeeded in soldering the brush Assembly and repairing the motor yesterday I do not know for sure that that solder job will hold up in the long run. I am about to do a test run now with 36 volts of SLA. It works as shown in the video but as I said the solder really did not want to stick. It is similar to trying to solder a wire to a blade type fuse or an SLA battery terminal. The solder seems to have trouble bonding.

If the solder job I did holds up that will be good but if it fails sometime in the future and I need to re-solder it then I have a very good question.

Notice the black circle around the solder area I did in windows paint. Could I cover that entire area with 100% silicone ? It would keep the connection from separating and should not cause any harm however would it hold up to heat ?

If not silicone would some other type of stuff work better ? Please let me know. I am going for a test run with it now to see if it holds up under load. The test video is not the same as under load.

It held up under load and ran good but then I started losing power after awhile. It could be the SLAs. If it were the motor I don't think it would work at all. Also three SLAs are too much weight in the front basket so I solved that problem with a little work on that old triangle rack I started building quite awhile back. I will need to paint it black and that will be a huge upgrade for the 24" cargo hauler.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=54202&p=1294366#p1294232

Also I want to order two or more of those 36V packs but have three questions. Why does it say 158 watts in the specifications as that would not be enough for an e bike ? 750 watts is needed for 36 volts.
The other question is. Is that the 42 volt charger the charger for that pack as I will need one for each pack I order. It does not look like it has the right connector. Also since I run 4.5 mm bullets on my controllers it will need an adapter from XT60 to 4.5 mm bullet. The XT60 for charge and the adapter to hook to my 36 volt controller. Please let me know. Thanks.



LC out

 

[Sunder]

1. Have you tried roughing up the surface with fine sand paper, cleaning it, applying flux a couple times before soldering it again?

The other thing you can try to make it more reliable if space permits is to make a small loop in the cablr, then secure the cable to the exit. Any pulling or vibration will then just tension the loop instead of pulling on the join.

2. He means watt-hours, not watts. 36v x 4.4ah = 158wh.

3. Cut the xt60 and solder 4.5mm bullets direct. I think XT90 is 4mm bullets with a case, so ask if he can do either 4mm bullets or xt90 for you instead?

4. The charger looks fine. 10s = 36v nominal 42v peak. (4.2v per cell)

 

[latecurtis]

Thanks Sunder.

I am just hoping the solder will hold up and I wont have to open it back up. I did scrape all the green stuff off with the end of a pair of scissors before I soldered it.
If It don't hold up and I need to solder it again I will go from there but hopefully it will be good. I am just curious though if JB weld or silicone over it would work to reinforce it ?

I will probably have to wait until next month but am hoping to replace my SLA batteries with two of those 36V Lion packs. I have six SLAs now which are well past their half way life span.
three miles are the maximum they will go now so will need to take all six if I go to Doug's house and switch them to get back. It is not worth it. Too much hassle and extra weight.

I can use them for wall-mart though as it is a little over 1/2 a mile away. Any of my LiPo packs will still make it across town and back with a full charge however that won't be the case in a few months from now.
I would like to order two of those 36V packs and two chargers next month and just cut off the XT60 connectors and solder on bullets. I will need to do the same for the chargers also.

I do not know If I will be ordering any more LiPo in the future either. I spent a lot of $$$ for LiPo. I bought those two 6S - 8.0 packs which I combined for a 16S pack which I run and charge in parallel.

Then I ordered two 6S- 10.0 packs and when I ran them in series for 44V the one pack puffed up and one of the cells did not even read a voltage. It is still out in the dryer in the garage. I have been running the good one solo with the Currie for 500 watts and 22V and am charging it now.

Then there are the old packs Dan sent which are still holding up good but I never ran them a lot. i have done several videos with them and been using them exclusively for the dual motor heavy duty 20" cargo bike and they still have plenty of power.

Actually those may be the only LiPos I might replace in the future with four more Turnegy packs just like those. All the LiPos I bought new were off of e bay and I was warned about the quality but did not listen.
Out of four 6S packs only one was defective but is still like $80 wasted.

I would like to order like four of the 36V Lion packs for normal e bike use. If I get a 48 volt 1500 watt rear hub motor for the Haro V3 however I am thinking five of these packs in series with a 60 volt controller will get me around 40 mph.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20000mAh-Lithium-ion-Super-Rechargeable-Battery-AC-Power-Charger-US-Plug-TR/142323068184?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D9f7b738cae8646db83c3ac3c431e9cac%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D232334580905

The only thing about these packs is I do not think I can solder bullets to them. If I try to cut the plug off it would not be good at all. I will need an adapter for the power plug to 4.5 mm bullets if one exists. I could make one if I can get a plug which plugs into the plug coming from the pack and solder bullets on to that. Please let me know ?

Thanks for posting and please post again when you can. The Haro V3 will be my last e bike build for quite awhile as after that I will be moving on to a small but heavy duty full motorcycle or dirt bike frame for the FX motor. Thanks for posting.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

I bought those two 6S - 8.0 packs which I combined for a 16S pack which I run and charge in parallel.

2 x 6s = 12s , not 16s

I did scrape all the green stuff off with the end of a pair of scissors before I soldered it.

Corrosion, similar to corrosion on car battery terminals.

I would like to order two of those 36V packs and two chargers next month and just cut off the XT60 connectors and solder on bullets.

Probably all gone by then! Make XT60 to bullet adapters ... ? You really should learn how to do a simple basic "search! - http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=xt60+bullet+cable&_sop=15

Notice the black circle around the solder area I did in windows paint. Could I cover that entire area with 100% silicone ? It would keep the connection from separating and should not cause any harm however would it hold up to heat ?

Will hide, not help, the problem

Is that the 42 volt charger the charger for that pack as I will need one for each pack I order.

Charge in parallel ... don't need multiple chargers!

And, show us a picture of the soldering iron and it's tip that you use.
Good chance, all your soldering woes are due to not following recommendations and purchasing the cheaper iron with only the thin (fine work) pencil tip.

 

[latecurtis]

I bought those two 6S - 8.0 packs which I combined for a 16S pack which I run and charge in parallel.

2 x 6s = 12s , not 16s

I meant 16.0 not 16S

Hopefully the solder job will hold up and not be a problem any more.

Thanks for posting.

LC out

 

[DrkAngel]

I bought those two 6S - 8.0 packs which I combined for a 16S pack which I run and charge in parallel.

2 x 6s = 12s , not 16s

I meant 16.0 not 16S

Hopefully the solder job will hold up and not be a problem any more.

Thanks for posting.

LC out

16.0 what?
Just curious if you know.

 

[latecurtis]

8.0 stands for 8,000 milli-amp-hours which equals 8 Ah combined in parallel equals 16 Ah which should equal one of these.

However the specific term Ah has little meaning as my SLA batteries are rated also in Ah but two 10 Ah SLAS brand new and fully charged will not go as far as a single 6S pack rated at 8 Ah

Also the 36V Lion pack rated at 4.5 mAh will go farther than three 10Ah SLAs in series so Ah and mAh both have little meaning except for a vague term which describes the capacity of a battery.

three 10 Ah SLAs in series = about 6 to 7 miles new at approx. 10 mph but at 15 mph only about 4 to 5 miles

A single 8.0 - 6S LiPo battery will do about the same but a 10.0 - 6S LiPo battery will do 10 miles at 10 mph and about 6 miles at 15 mph.

The 4.5 Ah LiOn battery I would guess is good for about 6 to 7 miles also at 10 mph or > or equal to 36V @ 10 Ah SLA. however the LiOn packs will have three to four times the charging cycles for a much longer lifespan with a fraction of the weight.

also five of these in series will be perfect for 60 volts and about 37 mph for about 5 miles. 27 mph for 10 miles , 15 mph for 15 miles and 10 mph for about 20 miles.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20000mAh-Lithium-ion-Super-Rechargeable-Battery-AC-Power-Charger-US-Plug-TR/142323068184?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D9f7b738cae8646db83c3ac3c431e9cac%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D232334580905

Also is better for a 48 volt 1,500 watt hub motor than the 36V Lion packs in series as 60 volts will not damage a 48 volt motor like 72 volts will and 37 to 40 mph is about as fast as I would want to go with an e bike anyway.

If I am even close to being accurate then please tell me how I would hook up five of those in series as when I order the REAR hub motor for the Haro V3 I will need to order those. like I said the only LiPo packs I MIGHT replace are the Turnegy packs Dan sent me as they are the best and most reliable. Far superior in quality than the cheap LiPo I got off of e bay.

Please let me know if I am at least close on this. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

All the newbies go for those blue packs because they're cheap. It's always a waste of money because:

1. They can usually only discharge in the milliamp range. Voltage sags too far over 1amp.
2. There's some weird printing error on them, that gets an extra zero added to the end of the capacity.

If there's one thing I've learned in the past few years, is that the truism "Buy cheap, buy twice" is doubly true when buying over the internet. Go with someone you trust, and buy the cheapest there. For me, that means Turnigy and Multistar (which are both made by Herewin).

 

[DrkAngel]

However the specific term Ah has little meaning as my SLA batteries are rated also in Ah but two 10 Ah SLAS brand new and fully charged will not go as far as a single 6S pack rated at 8 Ah

Also the 36V Lion pack rated at 4.5 mAh will go farther than three 10Ah SLAs in series so Ah and mAh both have little meaning except for a vague term which describes the capacity of a battery.

three 10 Ah SLAs in series = about 6 to 7 miles new at approx. 10 mph but at 15 mph only about 4 to 5 miles

A single 8.0 - 6S LiPo battery will do about the same but a 10.0 - 6S LiPo battery will do 10 miles at 10 mph and about 6 miles at 15 mph.

The 4.5 Ah LiOn battery I would guess is good for about 6 to 7 miles also at 10 mph or > or equal to 36V @ 10 Ah SLA. however the LiOn packs will have three to four times the charging cycles for a much longer lifespan with a fraction of the weight. .

Finally ... ?
As repeated endlessly ...
SLA is Ah rated at 20hr discharge. At typical 1/2 hour discharge, Ah is only about 50% ... when battery is new!
Every deep discharge depletes capacity further, permanently, at every occurrence.
Used, fully charged 10Ah battery might deliver a paltry 2-3Ah at typical use.
Worse, choosing the small-cheapest batteries means C rate is higher making usable an even worse percentage, with more drastic deterioration.

Yes, it appears I am back ...
I know, I've said LC was hardheaded and stubbornly incredulous, but compared to the dedicatedly ignorant - unreasonable T-Rump Pets, in the toxic discussions ... LC seems like a gifted child drinking in a font of glorious learning.

 

[DAND214]

Welcome back bothof you.
DA did you read what you said about LC? I know he has learned a lot but comparing to Trump might be taken as a real disgrace in some places.

Yes, I agree on the misleading cheap Supercharger packs, they are not what you think they are LC.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

Trump ?

Not sure as I am not really following it.

All I know is as far as health care goes I most likely will regret voting for him as Obama care may not have been perfect but there is always a compromise in everything political.
I am sure though that Obama care will probably be better than whatever Trump Trumps up. lol

However I stand by my reason for voting for him. Weather or not he lives up to his tough immigration policy or not, I do not know, However if he does not I will vote against him in the next election.

I will not go into how these a _ _ h _ _ _ s who come over here on a banana boat and run a corner store the next week or how Mexicans sneak over the boarder to steal our jobs and our women and sell drugs to our kids as I have already talked about that. Not to mention all the hand outs to the poor countries when we have homeless people and people hungry right here in America.

Also I am NOT sticking up for Trump. I am simply stating why I voted for him instead of Hilary. It had nothing to do with Hilary's stupid e mail and I liked and respected her Husband Bill. I think he was one of our greatest presidents and he was funny as hell . I just did not see Hilary keeping a _ _ _ h _ _ _ s out of our country. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

View attachment 2

latecurtis wrote:
Notice the black circle around the solder area I did in windows paint. Could I cover that entire area with 100% silicone ? It would keep the connection from separating and should not cause any harm however would it hold up to heat ?

Will hide, not help, the problem

Yes you are probably right but if my solder job does fail I will have to push the bike home and that is a royal pain in the behind so I hope it don't fail but if it does I will re-solder and put JB weld around and over it.

I do not know what else could be better and was just wondering if there were any other cold solder products superior or if Silicone would work better. I do know silicone is very strong and holds aquariums together with 100s of gallons of pressure. Also fiberglass resin is a super strong bonding material but quite messy to work with. It would need to be applied very careful as to not get it all over the other parts of the brush assembly.

Anyway i am testing it out and doing a short video as I have not rode it since installing the new triangle battery rack. I will post it soon. Thanks.

Ok the video was really jumpy and I have an idea why. I cut a piece out of the basket by where the camera goes to mount the variable controller so I will need to brace it somehow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEpMtQAxjI4&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJKpxXhYYqY&feature=youtu.be

Basically the motor is fixed but the bike is useless with the 36 volt controller unless i get another variable controller with the pot to run my 16.0 or 10.0 - 6S packs or I order the 36 volt Lion pack DA posted. I really don't have money to do either this month but I still have the Currie which can run 6S LiPo and the dual motor cargo bike for hauling cargo. That should get me thru until then. I can hopefully mount the LiLo packs where the SLAs were.

I guess I could afford a new 26" tube and fix the Schwinn and charge up the 44V packs and mount the speedometer I got for it and see what the top speed is on that. So far the fastest bike recorded that I own with a speedometer is the basket case of a bike I just rode. :lol: :lol: It not only hit 29 mph at 44V but made it most of the way up Congress st. hill at 36V when the gator clips started smoking however I did not get that on video. Just the pictures of the clips afterwards.

Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Electric-Bicycle-Rear-Wheel-Kit-Conversion-E-Bike-Motor-1500W-Motor-Hub-/322269304808?hash=item4b08bf57e8:g:gjAAAOSw~CFY5hTf

The best deal I have seen yet on a 1,500 watt 48 volt kit.

I hope it will still be available next month but it still wont solve my battery problems.

Basically for 35 mph I could probably hook up 60 volts to the Currie but I did listen to you guys about the safety hazards associated with the possibility of a chain coming off at high rpm and have decided to take the good advice presented so am limiting my chain drives to 36 volts and will be ordering the 36 volt Lion packs with the BMS for the Currie and the 24" cargo bikes.

I think with the disk brakes on the front that the Haro V3 is a perfect match for that rear hub motor but will need new LiPo batteries to power it. The old LiPo packs Dan sent I use for the beast. the 20" dual motor bike which is test proven to run the dual motors at 24V each with excellent performance. I can still get some miles out of them with the 20" bike so I do not want to run them at 44 volts with a 1,500 watt motor as I would kill them quick.


Also my 16.0 and my 10.0 LiPo packs are well into their 1/2 way point of their lifespan so I would like to keep them for the Currie and 24" cargo bike also as back up packs when I get the 36V Lion. I will need two brand new LiPo packs for the 1,500 watt hub motor. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Also my 16.0 and my 10.0 LiPo packs are well into their 1/2 way point of their lifespan so I would like to keep them for the Currie and 24" cargo bike also as back up packs when I get the 36V Lion. I will need two brand new LiPo packs for the 1,500 watt hub motor. Thanks.

LC out.

Damn!
Lipo packs, even at 4C, should be good for hundreds of cycles! ... ?
From the sounds of your posts you've only used them a couple dozen times ... at most???

 

[latecurtis]

Lipo packs, even at 4C, should be good for hundreds of cycles! ... ?
From the sounds of your posts you've only used them a couple dozen times ... at most???

You see as far as learning goes I take in all the information given to me here and then recall it with approx a 80% accuracy. This includes your charts and graphs and I can now do my own graphs off the top of my head.

As you can see since I did not listen and got cheap LiPo off of e bay I do not have a combination which will work for 44V and 1,500 watts. Only the good Turnigy packs Dan sent but they are for the 20" dual motors and 500 watts each motor. If used for 44V and 1,500 watts it would easily cut their life expectancy in half or even 1/4 as with a 1,500 watt hub motor I intend on showing little mercy.

I ordered two of the 10.0 - 6S packs but one is unusable and in the garage in the dryer all puffed up and I do not wish to hook the 16.0 - 6S pack to the 10.0 - 6S pack as it is a mismatch and also I can get much more use from them running each separate at 6S

Now do you see why I need new LiPos for a 1,500 watt 48 volt rear hub motor kit. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Better revise your graph.
Lipo - Li-ion begin at 100% capacity and gradually deteriorate.
My old lipo build, with possibly 500 cycles ~7000 miles on it, still has near 80% of it's original capacity ... still.

 

[Sunder]

I have noticed that well looked after LiPo don't really lose capacity, but they do get a lot more internal resistance.

Rebuilding a pack now that suffered some physical damage for not being secured down properly. The cells are about 9 months in age and maybe 200 partial cycles apart in age. IR has gone from 3mOhm to around 6-10mOhm. (Hard to get a stable reading at this low a resistance)

 

[latecurtis]

All the newbies go for those blue packs because they're cheap. It's always a waste of money because:

1. They can usually only discharge in the milliamp range. Voltage sags too far over 1amp.
2. There's some weird printing error on them, that gets an extra zero added to the end of the capacity.

Ok the blue packs are a NO GO then for me.

However that leaves the 36V packs DA posted a page or so back.

My question is will two of those packs work in series for 72 volts and will it work for this motor.

If so what would the top speed be at 72 volts and 1,500 / 48 = 31.25 watts. 72 * 31.25 = 2,250 watts.

Please let me know as I want the Haro V3 to go 40 mph thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Custom battery,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pxq4Au5iuc#t=3.225358

I am sitting here finishing my last beer and about to eat my milk and cookies and go to bed but I have been thinking about DA and his awesome battery builds awhile watching this video.

I am also thinking that when DA watches it he may want to put his soldering iron away for awhile as it looks like these kits can be used over saving the trouble of soldering when the batteries need replacement.

I suck at soldering anyway so am thinking about giving it a shot. Please let me know what you all think of these battery kits. Thanks.

LC out.

http://vruzend.com/

I checked out the site. Looks complicated. I will need to call them if I order anything. Please let me know what you think.

 

[Sunder]

Pretty sure Micah (Lead engineer of the company that makes those), is MLT34 on this forum. Maybe shoot him a PM and ask him about them, and whether he can do you a deal. He tried to give away his eBook on building batteries, so he obviously tries to support this forum, but to get on Amazon, he needed to charge at least 99c, and he needed Amazon to distribute.

They're a great idea. I had a similar one, but not as elegant. (I bought some spring loaded ones, like for AA batteries, and was frustrated that it wouldn't carry much current, so thought about replacing the spring with a captive nut and bolt, not dissimilar to what they did, but obviously they don't have a full holder, just a cap. A much better design than I thought of).

 

[latecurtis]

Yes.

I will probably need a BMS for that. They sell them also but will need a video on how to hook it up.

I had to go across town to refill my blood pressure prescription as I ran out on a week end again and the pharmacy around the corner closes early.

I took the Currie with the single 6S pack and made it no problem however when I stopped at Wall-Mart it started raining. I had to cover my controller with the plastic bag which had my worms in for my big fish and eels. I was lucky it did not get wet and I did not get a shock unplugging the pack.

I do not think it has gone two days without rain this spring. Either I need to give up on e bikes or figure out how to make them water proof. It is totally ridiculous.

Anyway for a reliable and comfortable ride the Currie is awesome. The 20" Diamond back is as reliable but not as comfortable as a 26" bike with front shocks also I cant run 36 volts any more as I only got three SLAs left and they have little life in them. They are lucky if they will do a mile round trip.

The only way I can get 44V is with the old packs Dan sent but the cash box is too big for the Diamond Back or the Currie. They will work for the 20" bike with dual motors for 6S to each motor and can do 44V for the Schwinn but that has a flat tire in the front so I have not rode it yet this year I don't believe. The 24" cargo bike can run 44 volts also but there is a big bubble in the front tire and the tube is sticking out near the valve stem. it explains all the shaking when I did the videos after I fixed the motor a week or so ago.

There is no doubt I will need at least one 36 volt pack and if I get the 1500 watt rear hub motor for the Haro V3 a new 44V pack or two 36V packs if i get a 72 volt controller for 40 mph. Either way I will need to order at least two battery packs before I can build the Haro. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Well, you had the Currie with the rack. Provided nice water resistant compartment for controller and cases for safe battery storage ... ?

Oem water resistant motor too ...

Picked up a used-abused Currie that was left outside , in the weather, for 2 years. Had to lube and replace all cables but still worked just fine!

 

[Sunder]

What is this waterproofing?

Hub motors can tolerate some ingestion of water.

Good quality controllers are potted.

Battery boxes with grommets/cable glands are water resistant, put a drip look before it, and no water should get in.

Wait. You don't have any of those? You see, if you do it right the first time using conventional methods, there's less retrofitting features like waterproofing...

 

[latecurtis]

I still have some of those grommets I ordered somewhere.

Also I have plenty of tools and time. I guess I can work on water- proofing.

The Schwinn and Diamond Back have hub motors and the controllers may be water resistant. Not sure about the thumb throttles though.

I will just need to fabricate a water resistant battery compartment.

The stock Currie rack is on the Haro but doubt a 48 volt or 72 volt brush less controller would fit where the little 24 volt brushed controller did.

Also the 750 watt gear reduction motor on the Currie looks like it might be water resistant. I just need to make something to put the variable controller in and the battery.

I will work on it. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DAND214]

A throttle with idiot lights for voltage are NOT water proof at all.

Dan