new eZip motor

[DAND214]

Congrats on your new house. Is it this one here?

(First one to turn up when I search Port Richey)

Sometimes I do wonder how and why it is that busy people like you and me still seem to get more hobby work done, than the unemployed and under employed... I remember when I used to game. 55 hour week, married, 2 kids, and when the single fork lift driver working part time said he didn't have time to organise any more, I said I'd take over.

Sometimes I figure if I was in LC's shoes, I would already have my 40mph electric bike and be building sellable quality bikes made out of upcycled bits. Other times I think maybe I get time for my hobbies because my busyness pays for them. I need a part I can't get? I don't spend two weekends trying to fabricate one, I buy a 3D printer and knock it up in a couple hours.

Who kniws. The rich man wishes he has more time, and the poor man wishes he had more money. We should all count our blessings.

Wow, I didn't know my house was so beautiful :lol:
It's a little smaller and has less water by it.
My 40 mph days are over, I need 50 to 55 now to try and keep out of the way. US 19 down here is as bad or worse than the Dan Ryan in Chicago. 45mph speed limit and they are doing 60+. Has a bike lane on the shoulder?
Been 3 weeks and my truck load is still not here with all of our belongings! The worst is the lack of my bikes. Car broke down last night here at the bank. sure glad it was here and not on the way down.

Glad to hear from you and hope all is doing great.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Hurricanes Sinkholes alligators Oh my

My mother has been retired for a few years now and spends most of her time down there. Also my ol ladies son and grand-kids live in Clearwater FL.

We have been offered to move down there on many occasions however feel it is safer up here in NY.
I saw on the news how entire houses and a SUV were sucked down into a sink hole. The SUV had a passenger and they did not even attempt to rescue him it was so deep.

The guy who lives down stairs has family down there and his grandmother was eaten by an alligator. ooops

However on a more cheerful note I read what you posted.

Well LC, it appears things haven't changed, while I was gone. Still the easiest way to hit 40 is a DD and 72v. You might get there with 16s but that depends on the motor and controller. And if you wanna do it so bad, do it on a 26" or larger bike. That way you might survive the ride to tell us about it.

A 20" BMX style bike is rugged and durable. It is designed for jumps and the frame can absorb high impact.
Not only that but has a lower center of gravity and feet can touch the ground for emergency stops.

However I would prefer a 24" mountain bike with 24" wheels front and rear. It would require custom and expensive sprockets though. It would increase the cost by at least 100 bucks maybe even 200 bucks.

Also 72 volts would not be required and neither would a 2200 watt or 2500 watt controller and large 72 volt pack. Basically the 1,800 watt kit for less than 200 bucks will do the trick.

I have proved that running a motor on the front and a second motor on the rear of a bike will work together and power will add up for the gearing and top speed. Two 24 volt motors will produce 1,088 watts and climb a big hill and top out at 20 mph. I posted more than one video proving this.

The 800 watt motor on the front will receive 1,088 watts with a 48V pack and controller. The rear motor 1,800 watts so combined 2,888 watts should be capable of 45 to 47 mph but 42 to 43 mph will do better on the hills and with a 20" rear wheel with the disk brake mount I can also pedal up the hills.

The thing I am not sure about is the throttle. I would like to use a single thumb throttle for both controllers. One brush-less and one brushed However it may not be possible. I may have to use two thumb throttles side by side and hook them together somehow. Also a large capacity 48V - 12S pack running both motors.

Thanks and good luck in Florida. You might need it. I think I will be safer going 40 mph on a BMX bike as long as it is a smooth flat road with no obstructions ahead than living in Florida. Especially when the big category 6 hurricane with 200 mph winds hits and takes out 80% of the inland.

For everyone's sake down there I hope it don't happen but I am not gambling my life on it. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DAND214]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Hurricanes Sinkholes alligators Oh my

My mother has been retired for a few years now and spends most of her time down there. Also my ol ladies son and grand-kids live in Clearwater FL.

We have been offered to move down there on many occasions however feel it is safer up here in NY.
I saw on the news how entire houses and a SUV were sucked down into a sink hole. The SUV had a passenger and they did not even attempt to rescue him it was so deep.

The guy who lives down stairs has family down there and his grandmother was eaten by an alligator. ooops

However on a more cheerful note I read what you posted.

Well LC, it appears things haven't changed, while I was gone. Still the easiest way to hit 40 is a DD and 72v. You might get there with 16s but that depends on the motor and controller. And if you wanna do it so bad, do it on a 26" or larger bike. That way you might survive the ride to tell us about it.

A 20" BMX style bike is rugged and durable. It is designed for jumps and the frame can absorb high impact.
Not only that but has a lower center of gravity and feet can touch the ground for emergency stops.

However I would prefer a 24" mountain bike with 24" wheels front and rear. It would require custom and expensive sprockets though. It would increase the cost by at least 100 bucks maybe even 200 bucks.

Also 72 volts would not be required and neither would a 2200 watt or 2500 watt controller and large 72 volt pack. Basically the 1,800 watt kit for less than 200 bucks will do the trick.

I have proved that running a motor on the front and a second motor on the rear of a bike will work together and power will add up for the gearing and top speed. Two 24 volt motors will produce 1,088 watts and climb a big hill and top out at 20 mph. I posted more than one video proving this.

The 800 watt motor on the front will receive 1,088 watts with a 48V pack and controller. The rear motor 1,800 watts so combined 2,888 watts should be capable of 45 to 47 mph but 42 to 43 mph will do better on the hills and with a 20" rear wheel with the disk brake mount I can also pedal up the hills.

The thing I am not sure about is the throttle. I would like to use a single thumb throttle for both controllers. One brush-less and one brushed However it may not be possible. I may have to use two thumb throttles side by side and hook them together somehow. Also a large capacity 48V - 12S pack running both motors.

Thanks and good luck in Florida. You might need it. I think I will be safer going 40 mph on a BMX bike as long as it is a smooth flat road with no obstructions ahead than living in Florida. Especially when the big category 6 hurricane with 200 mph winds hits and takes out 80% of the inland.

For everyone's sake down there I hope it don't happen but I am not gambling my life on it. Thanks. LC out.

Scared of a alligator? Just stay away from them, that means whatch out while your golfing. I don't golf and I'm sure they can't catch my bike. Sink holes are everywhere now with the fracking or what ever they are doing to find more oil and gas. Yeah the hurricanes can be a problem but I'm in a no hurricane zone :lol: I wish and hope.

I still don't like a chain drive the way you have it. Not that you didn't do it right, I just don't feel safe like that. A 20" bmx is still a small wheel bike and not made to go over 15 if not less mph.
Oh well if a alligator worries you and this doesn't go for it. At least I can stay away from where they are you can't guess when a chain will pop or a tire pops at 40mph.
Good luck and try to be careful.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

Thanks. Yes I should wear a crash helmet if I do any run > 30 mph.

As far as the chain goes it wont pop as I will be running #420 motorcycle chain but the wood mounts and muffler clamps will have to go. I will need some heavy duty steel when I build this and some thick strong bolts.

The good thing about Florida and only reason I would have to move down there besides the warm weather is the law down there is in favor of e bikes. E bikes are legal there.

If I did move down there it would be a solid brick building and not near the coast as tsunamis are also a deep concern. Living in a trailer down there like my ol ladie's son is sheer stupidity. Trailers should not be legal in that state. thanks for posting.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

The hub motor didn't turn in that last post! The LiPo fire didn't burn!

Your assessment of risk is off - Most people's are. You know that when they grounded planes after 9/11, more people died in car accidents from driving long distances instead of flying, than died in 9/11 itself? Yet people still fear flying and terrorism more than cars.

Thing about chain drive motors, is that it doesn't even need to come off to be dangerous. What happens if it jams on the cog and deforms?

The way a hub motor is designed, it's virtually impossible for anything in the stationary part to get damaged and jam the moving parts - if you damage a direct drive hub motor, the worst that happens is that you have no power, unless an external object pierced the hub motor (In which case, you were in trouble anyway).

Chain drives aren't inherently dangerous. They are used in real motorcycles after all. But those are finely engineered, and precision machined. But slapped together from backyard manufacturing? Gotta be real careful.

 

[latecurtis]

http://electricscooterparts.com/sprockets420chain.html

I am not sure what a sprocket hub is and am not familiar with the word cog.

sprocket hubs and large sprockets cost money so the 2,200 watt motor is better than the 1,800 watt brush-less motor as it is a gear reduction motor.

however it is almost double the price of the 1,800 watt motor.

A 24" mountain bike could be the solution but would rather have a sprocket that mounts to a disk brake.

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=catalog&parent=50&pg=1

The link for disk sprockets I think. I may have called them before and got no answer. Not sure if there or Kings.

http://www.kingssalesandservice.com/

My big question is What is stronger ? A sprocket hub or a disk brake mount : or a sprocket that bolts to or screws on where a freewheel goes if they exist. ????? ? DO they ? and who makes them ? Either one is probably stronger than a COG. Not sure what that means but certainly either choice should be stronger than the spoke kit rag tag sprocket.

I wonder how much a 3D printer would cost to make one out of metal that screws on. If less than 100 bucks it could be worthwhile. Please let me know which is stronger. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

The hub motor didn't turn in that last post! The LiPo fire didn't burn!

Your assessment of risk is off - Most people's are. You know that when they grounded planes after 9/11, more people died in car accidents from driving long distances instead of flying, than died in 9/11 itself? Yet people still fear flying and terrorism more than cars.

Risk? - (2017 US statistics show)

Afraid for soldiers being killed in action? (21)
Afraid of being killed in a mass shooting? (428)
Afraid of being killed by Terrorists??? (4)

Being killed by Police? (1129)
282 times more likely to be killed by Police officer than by a Terrorist!

Killings by Police

Being killed by Cancer? (600,920)
150,230 times more likely to be killed by Cancer than by a Terrorist! - (Typically a slow, prolonged, agonizing, torturous death)

 

[latecurtis]

Being killed by Cancer? (600,920)
150,230 times more likely to be killed by Cancer than by a Terrorist! - (Typically a slow, prolonged, agonizing, torturous death)

Yes DA I know. It took my father in 09 and he suffered at least 2 years with throat cancer. Then in 2013 one of my best friends Paul who I knew for 13 years and was a Vietnam vet and army special forces 12 years active duty died from cancer thru his entire body. Both were heavy smokers.

Recently an old friend Dave I grew up with since I was 16 and he was 13 and moved up from Florida was told he has two months left and got that news over a month ago on facebook from his kids mother. He don't live close to me and not going to funeral. He also was a heavy drinker and smoker. I quit cigarettes back in 07.

Also cops are trigger happy and taser crazy. At least some of them. Fortunately since I moved out of the small cow town I grew up in and moved to the ghetto I have had hardly any problems with law enforcement. They have crack heads and gang members to chase around which keeps them busy. The only thing I do illegal is ride an electric bike drunk sometimes.

The way I figure it is at night with almost no traffic I am safer with an electric bike riding on the side of the road than operating a 3,000+ pound motor vehicle. I don't attract attention or cause any accidents. I also installed a rear reflector and a LED light on the front.

Now back to my question about wheel sprockets for e bikes. Which is stronger. A freewheel sprocket or a sprocket which screws on where a freewheel goes or is a sprocket that bolts to the disk brake mount stronger.

Also does someone know if I could get a metal sprocket 3D printed which would screw on and at what price. I believe a screw on sprocket to be the safest as a bolt on sprocket could fail catastrophically if the bolts were to loosen or fall out. I would appreciate all of your professional opinions on this subject. There is no doubt that eventually I will be building a 40 mph e bike so would at least like it to be as safe and solid as possible. Thanks and please post when you can.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Schwinn looks shot but the Currie is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QStKGjTwUGw&feature=youtu.be

The spokes Dan sent me were a perfect fit and Doug helped me replace the broken spoke and I tightened up all the spokes and the video shows the result of our joint efforts. The wheel has a high spot but seems to be straight as far as left to right goes.

He says it could be straightened on a machine however no bike shops in NY state will touch it due to the e bike law here where any motorized vehicle must be registered or inspected to be considered road worthy and no bicycles will pass.

I am not sure what to do with the Schwinn and the 1,000 watt hub motor now. However the Currie now has two brakes on the front and one is disk. Since I am used to a left brake I am going to use the conventional brake but have the disk brake also on the right side. Since DA and most agree 70% stopping power is in the front this should work great for me on the big hills.

44V and over 900 watts from the one horse 750 watt 36V gear reduction motor with 12S Lithium upgrade via 48 - 18650 LG cells: two 6S packs in series. going up hills with pedal assist also. The Currie is a real beast now. I was considering a final upgrade for the Currie.

An ebikeling 500 watt geared hub motor on the front. The same motor on Easy Street but for a 26" bike. I could run it exclusively on flat ground and kick in the rear chain drive motor only to assist going up hills. the rear chain drive is a bolt on freewheel sprocket so the rear chain drive is little drag but hiding the motor added even more weight to a heavy duty steel frame + the gear reduction motor is not a lightweight. The Currie is the heaviest e bike I own. Not sure what to do about the Schwinn though. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

Tonight will be the last time I run a single 18650 pack for awhile. I ran the first pack a few weeks before building the second pack which I have been using at least two weeks I think so will be running them in series after tonight's run. The Currie or the 20" bike will work with 12S LiPo. Also Easy Street and am on the way to Wall-Mart to get a tube for that tonight also.

I have a fast question about batteries. I hooked up three 18650 cells in series for 12 volts to operate a CPU fan Doug wanted to test. I am thinking about building a battery compartment for the two 6S 18650 packs in series. Two fans one sucking air in and the other blowing air out. It should work and cool these cells down especially up hills.

Section 8 requires everything up to code. These cheap smoke detectors which use 9 volt batteries start chirping about a month or less and drive everyone up the wall. My solution is to replace with 12 volt DC smoke alarms.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Smoke-Infrared-IR-Detector-Sensor-Wired-12V-for-Fire-Alarm-System-Home-Security/282896722994?epid=1165876190&hash=item41ddf56c32:g:YbIAAOSwxfdaq2PF

Some of those used laptop cells tested around 2,000 mAh. I also can get more Westinghouse cells from Wall-Mart however voltage may be slightly below 12 volts. I do not want to go thru all that trouble to hear that chirp sound again so will it work or not? If not is there a cheap voltage reducer circuit which can be put in place for a 9V smoke alarm can be used with three 18650 cells in series ? Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.

PS.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DC-DC-Boost-Step-up-Module-Volt-Converter-1-2v-6v-3-3v-3-7v-to-5v-6v-9v-12v/323159790716?hash=item4b3dd3147c:g:ebMAAOSw~CFY7ErL

Will this work ? I think a single Westinghouse cell could last a lot longer than a 9V battery ? If not I could wire two Westinghouse or three Laptop cells in parallel. Please let me know.

 

[Sunder]

Only way to find out is to try it, really. You can try to read the board to see what the limits of the parts are, but that doesn't guarantee it will work, only in some circumstances it will guarantee that it won't.

If yours only last a month, either you're buying the world's worst batteries, or you have a faulty alarm. I changed mine when I moved in 3.5 years ago, and tested it a month ago. They still work.

 

[wturber]

If you put more packs in parallel, they won't heat up as much because the load is spread over multiple packs. That, IMO, would be a better approach than adding fans.

 

[latecurtis]

If you put more packs in parallel, they won't heat up as much because the load is spread over multiple packs. That, IMO, would be a better approach than adding fans.

Parallel is no good. The 18650 - 6S packs are lower power than 6S LiPo or SLA. The Currie is very heavy and difficult to pedal. It will need 12S or 36V to go anywhere besides the flat and even on the flat it is lucky to see 10 mph.

I guess if I take it easy and only go about 15 mph They may not get too hot. However if I get the 48 volt 1,800 watt brushless motor or do full throttle with the Currie or 20" bike they will get very hot without a fan set up for cooling. I am looking at building a custom battery case for that.

I also need another charging cable so I can charge both 6S packs at the same time: one for each LiPo charger. I can build at least two 3S packs to run the fans so I always have at least one fresh 3S pack when needed.

I may also build some type of battery holder out of wood for 10S charging. 10 cells in series with a balance cable so can charge with my 36V charger then break them down into three 3 cell packs in parallel for running the fans or two 5 cell packs in parallel wirh the voltage booster board for 12V to the fan.

I am also going to improve on my soldering skills if I do decide to order a few of those voltage boosters for running smoke detectors off of 18650 cells. I will solder them. I think the important thing is to adjust the output voltage correct as if too high will burn out the Unit and too low will make that annoying chirp sound.

I can simply test a brand new 9V battery and match the output with the multi-meter before hooking the detector up. Thanks.



LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

View attachment 3

No mercy on batteries. LG junk

The bottom pic shows the new home for the melted cell. Dead in the center of that bush. :lol: :lol: It tested at 0 volts. The other pack had a cell less than 1/2 volt. It went in about the same place as the 0 volt cell. All others tested between 3.4 and 3.7 volts. I assume they are good.

I ran the SONA packs which are in plastic airtight waterproof Tupperware containers and never had a problem with them at full throttle.
I have every reason to believe the LG cells to be fakes. They are definitely NOT high discharge 18650 cells. The SONA packs however are high discharge as I never had them overheat and fail like these.

Wtuber said to run them in parallel. Good idea but not at 6S but at 10S. Also I will need to build my own cell holder as the VRUZEND kit is garbage and the cells are too close together. I can use the parts mabye and other connecters I ordered. I will be building two 20 cell 10S packs. It will be fan cooled and hook in parallel with the two SONA packs which are in parallel.

I see now that I can't abuse LG cells if they are in series but if in parallel with the SONA packs then It should act as one large 16 Ah pack and should NOT overheat when I hook up two fans. It will be a lot of work. However the end result will be worthwhile.

I guess the 1,800 watt motor is on hold. I will need to run three 6S LiPo Multi star packs for that. 18650 cells simply run too hot for anything > 36V or 10S. There may be some that will work at a high discharge rate but are probably 5 or 10 bucks a cell except for the SONA packs. Most of my bikes will run at 36V.

I have a 36V Chinese controller for the Currie. Actually I own two and think I got an extra three wire thumb throttle laying around. Does anyone know where I can order two 10S BMSs with two to 3 day shipping. Thanks.





LC out.

 

[Sunder]

Even top quality cells can be destroyed by abuse. Poor quality cells should not go to 0v with even the most basic of care, so I can only conclude they were abused.

The photo also doesn't show a melted cell. It shows the heatshrink pulled off by the cell holders.

They say the poor pay twice... I think in your case, it's more the stubborn pay 15 times. Until you start taking advice and designing packs to specification, and take care of them the way they should be, you'll keep destroying cells.

 

[DrkAngel]

1 cell failed, in a pack, when properly paralleled, is difficult to understand!
If 4p, all 4 should be identical voltage or similarly damaged-destroyed.
Finding 1 cell of differing voltage means it was not properly paralleled! Unless disassembled before measuring?

With some cells at 3.4V and others at 3.7V ...
3.4V looks like were running defectively at 3p (20% capacity left), 3.7V running at 4p (55% capacity left) - based on LG HG2 specs

 

[DrkAngel]

.
... Understanding battery size vs performance-lifespan -

While Discharging near capability, performance is greatly diminished and battery stressed-damaged = short lifespan!
Doubling battery size will improve speed and acceleration, increase range possibly 250% and, likely, increase lifespan 400%!

If desperate to use small battery and don't mind short life ... you should at least get decent performance from it's brief life.

LG HG2 :
At 4p, with 40A controller-draw, 6s battery hits controllers 20V LVC at 50% capacity!
Voltage sags to a pitiful output for poor performance!
At 4p, with 40A controller-draw, 7s battery hits controllers 20V LVC at 5% capacity!
Performance and actual usability are greatly increased, for a mere 17% cost increase!
Compared to 24V, 22.2V (6s) is pitiful and inadequate ... while 25.9V (7s) noticeable stronger and impressive! As determined by my years of experience with 24V SLA and multiple 6s and 7s Li-ion and LiPo builds!



Of course, LC, if you don't use a LVC controller you will just destroy the battery ... cuz you just can't pedal that last 100 feet when motor slows to a crawl ... !

But ... Not a single battery would have been destroyed if you had used the LVA (Low Voltage Alarm) plug in modules - dependent on your stopping motor use when alarm goes off, when any cell reaches set "empty" voltage.

While 1 cell might have been weak or "defective", it would not have been destroyed, "destroying" pack, if discharge had been stopped.
One cell was of slightly lesser capacity, possibly 9.5Ah rather than 10Ah.
Could have been used indefinitely as 9.5Ah battery! ... ?

 

[latecurtis]

But ... Not a single battery would have been destroyed if you had used the LVA (Low Voltage Alarm) plug in modules - dependent on your stopping motor use when alarm goes off, when any cell reaches set "empty" voltage. Image

The manufacturer claims that these cells can be drained down to 2.5 volts


http://www.electricbike.com/inside-18650-cell/

They were all well above 3 volts so AGAIN the failure of these cells were NOT my fault.
This I believe is the main reason why the failure occurred.View attachment 1

The other is obvious to me after running the SONA packs at least a dozen times up two small hills and up to 22 mph on the flat coming home and they are enclosed in plastic so if the cells were to get hot there is no ventilation whatsoever.

However

Even though I got ripped off double time by VRUZEND and the vendors on e bay who sell these fake cells I will make a very good thing happen. I do realize the weakness and failure of ALL parts involved with any electric vehicle or component.

Heat failure is nothing new to me. The day Motley Crew came out "Shout at the Devil" back in the 80s I would need to place a 8" fan facing upwards on my Realistic STA860 reciever as I ran it in 4 ohms doubling the output from 65 watts RMS to 130W RMS per channel which is equal to 800 or 1,000 watts peak power which is how home theater systems are rated today. Especially the cheap brands.

Then there is all the exotic cooling options for computers. liquid cooling still the favorite over oil filled cases. Liquid cooling in an oil filled case being the most extreme. Since used 18650 cells are common on e bay and everywhere else there is always a large 96 to 100+ cell pack to build for 100 to 200 bucks.

I will definitely need a BMS so why not a battery case for 18650 cells with a small fan on one end, A little venting and a built in liquid cooling system. A large high speed fan or two would not work as well as it would be blowing hot air thru the cells. I think that a low speed fan and small vent would work better with liquid cooling.

Of course a lot of 100 genuine SONA cells would be a better option but are not cheap or easily available as TESTED used laptop cells. I thank you all for posting about my little mishap. I do take part responsibility for not listening to DA and getting at least two more SONA packs when they were available and also not listening to Wturber about running the two 6S packs in parallel instead of series.

I really wanted 12S but really do not need it as all my bikes except the Schwinn run fine on 36 volts. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[wturber]

But ... Not a single battery would have been destroyed if you had used the LVA (Low Voltage Alarm) plug in modules - dependent on your stopping motor use when alarm goes off, when any cell reaches set "empty" voltage. Image

The manufacturer claims that these cells can be drained down to 2.5 voltsCID.png


http://www.electricbike.com/inside-18650-cell/

They were all well above 3 volts so AGAIN the failure of these cells were NOT my fault.
This I believe is the main reason why the failure occurred.IMG_3647.JPG

Did you ever confirm that these were legit LG cells? Last I heard they didn't have the advertised capacity. If they were counterfeit, then you can't reasonably expect them to perform according to the LG specs.

If they are legit LG cells, are you sure that you didn't exceed the operating specs for current draw and cell temperature. Ambient temperature and air flow need to be adequate to keep the cell surface temperature below 75℃. The issue probably wasn't so much the level of voltage as it was how hot the cell got. One of the reasons behind running multiple cells in parallel is to reduce the rise in cell temperatures by sharing the load. As Dark Angels charts show, that gives you more storage capacity as well as helping the cells to last longer.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0674/3651/files/lg-hg2-spec-sheet.pdf

 

[latecurtis]

I should have known when I had to stand on the packs with one foot to get them all to connect that the VRUZEND kit was junk. I believe they all were not connected in parallel as if they were they all would be the same voltage and they are NOT.

Unfortunately I failed at attempting to solder one of my little terminals to a junk 18650 cell. I succeeded on the negative side but could not get the solder to stick on the positive side.

Therefore I have no choice but to reuse them for the two 10S packs I am building however will use different zip ties and long enough to secure each cell with a single tie as useig two or three ties is NOT as good as a single tie just as wrapping around the entire pack with a tie is not as good as each cell. Thanks and I have to get to work on these. I will be hopefully running the SONA packs in parallel with two 20 cell 10S packs for a large 80 cell pack. I will use a BMS for each 20 cells exactly how the SONA packs were built. Thanks again.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

As they say, "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools".

If you don't assemble them correctly, they won't work. This is true whether it's junk or high quality.

Did you even do a basic test of the packs before you rode with them? 60 seconds with a multimeter would have proven that the cells weren't paralleled.

I've had my LTO cells for 3 weeks now, but I still don't have a battery, because it's really time consuming to test every cell. And it will take more time to test every cell balancer, and even more time to test the whole packs. Over, and over and over and over again. You know why? Because I don't want something failing when I'm doing 130km/h overtaking a truck, only to have the battery decide to cut power on me, just as a truck that needs 300m to stop is right up my tail light.

If you want something to work, you have to put in the work, or buy it off someone who is renown for quality.

 

[latecurtis]

As they say, "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools".

If you don't assemble them correctly, they won't work. This is true whether it's junk or high quality.

Did you even do a basic test of the packs before you rode with them? 60 seconds with a multimeter would have proven that the cells weren't paralleled.

Yes I did use a multi-meter as well as a balancer I do not see how either could help if there were four cells in parallel or only 2 or 3. The 6S -24 cell pack was four rows of cells in parallel and 6 in series. The balancer will see the average voltage of 2 cells , three or four. The multi-meter only shows total voltage.

Either way I am building these new packs to make it impossible for a bad connection. The picture also shows the first two cells in parallel One is 3.6V and it's mate is 3.61V. They will be hooked to a BMS with the same wire. I bought colored tape and will be hooking up color coded wires for a BMS.

If you want something to work, you have to put in the work, or buy it off someone who is renown for quality.

Work ? Yes it will take awhile to build each pack and I plan on ordering two BMSs and a second 36V lithium charger exactly like the one I use for the SONA packs. I rode the 20" bike downtown and recharged the SONA packs on top of my friends refrigerator so the cats did not screw with the wires. When my friend got his new TV a few years back he had to take it apart and solder the cable hook up due to the cats playing with it. :lol:

I may be able to get away with two large fans for these as I am running in parallel with the SONA packs for 16 Ah @ 10S - 80 cells total.
When the time comes for a 2,000 watt motor and 38 amps discharge current @ 52 volts the packs will be four rows in parallel and 13 in series. 52 cells in each pack and 104 when run together in parallel. All will be used laptop cells > 2,000 mAh and < 2,500 mAh tested. I will be looking to build a liquid cooling system inside a custom battery case. Thanks for posting everyone.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

Yes I did use a multi-meter as well as a balancer I do not see how either could help if there were four cells in parallel or only 2 or 3. The 6S -24 cell pack was four rows of cells in parallel and 6 in series. The balancer will see the average voltage of 2 cells , three or four. The multi-meter only shows total voltage.

You do a continuity check from the positive of cell 1 to the positive of cell 4.

• If the resistance is zero, or close enough to, then all 4 cells are connected.

• If the resistance is infinite, there's a total break

• If the resistance is more than one or two miliohm, there's a bad join

You then repeat on the negative of the same row. If it all checks out, that set of parallel cells are good. Repeat for all cells rows in series.

In my very little spare time, I've started making the physical enclosures for my battery.

The ends are 6mm acrylic, the black bands are 3mm PLA, 3D printed.

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-aGC3w5bWs&feature=youtu.be

The VRUZEND kit is designed for failure. First of all all parallel and series connections are made before zip tying down the pack therefore it is difficult to check them and I really do not understand what you said to accomplish it.

However

My video shows that each cell in this new 20 cell - 10S pack has a connection. Therefore any further testing is not required. I can now repeat what I did with a second pack. After that I can make my parallel and series connections and the final step will be hooking a BMS up to each pack and running the packs in parallel.

A second 36 - 42 volt charger exactly like the one I use for the SONA packs will charge both packs in parallel at the same time the SONA packs charge. The pre hook up cable will be used to parallel all the packs for > 16 Ah. It should work well.

SUNDER that pack of yours looks like something straight off of Star Trek. :lol: :lol: :lol: Did you ever read the book by Steven King The Tommyknockers. :lol: I read it over 25 years ago in state prison. there were several chapters about using alien technology to make alien batteries. :lol: :lol: Thanks.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Yes I did use a multi-meter as well as a balancer I do not see how either could help if there were four cells in parallel or only 2 or 3. The 6S -24 cell pack was four rows of cells in parallel and 6 in series. The balancer will see the average voltage of 2 cells , three or four. The multi-meter only shows total voltage.

Cells properly paralleled are all of identical voltage!
There is no "average" voltage for paralleled cells.

Multimeter can test for cells properly paralleled.
Start with all banks of identical "full" voltage (4.2V).
#s4p 12Ah battery:
Discharge battery some fair percentage 2-3Ah.
Use multimeter to test each parallel.
If all banks are still of identical voltage then all cells properly paralleled.
Any bank of noticeably lesser voltage has at lest 1 cell poorly paralleled!

LG HG2 - If discharge 3 Ah:
All banks should be ~ 3.90V = 4 paralleled good
If any bank at ~3.85V = 3 paralleled good
If any bank at ~3.65V = 2 paralleled good
If any bank at ~2.50V = 1 paralleled good

Voltage differential would still be noticeable, and safer, with initially lesser Ah discharge.