new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

According to the graph on page 5 of this post part way down from the top a mountain bike is capable of 23mph@500W.
A race bike is 26mph@500W.
A fully recumbent bike about 30mph I think.
Where does a light 20" BMX bike fall into.
The 500W motor is currently geared for 27mph. (shitty up hills) but am questioning an expensive $80 77T spoke sprocket.

An 800W 36V 2800rpm motor would run 533W and 1867rpm for 20mph with the current chain and motor sprocket. A 77T sprocket would also require a longer chain which would up total cost to $100+

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161593361018

ORDERED!

If I was a real genius I would have ordered that motor in the first place instead of the 500W motor.


Now that that problem is fixed what to do with the 500W 24V motor?
Friction drive seems like the only option. or

https://electricscooterparts.com/sprockets25chain-wheel.html

The last sprocket at the bottom of the page is a 90 tooth. It says it works for ezip scooters. The 80 tooth was a bolt on to the freewheel deal. I think this screws on. Please let me know as the currie could be reborn at 23mph with the 500W 24V motor. Sprocket calculater checks out with the #25 11T motor sprocket and 2500rpm 500W motor. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Shoulda got the one with the mounting bracket!

36V 800w w\mounting bracket

 

[latecurtis]

Yea but then I would have to completely reinstall the motor. The brackets would be in the way of the U bolts. I will only need to loosen up the nuts on the U bolts to slide the 500W motor out and the 800W motor in.

Why did I blow a fuse 40A slow blow. I was on the flat and got into the pot to see if the chain would stay on and the damm fuse blew.Why? 24V * 40A = 960W. The motor is only 500W. Plus I am running Lipos which is less voltage than 24V SLA. Could you please explain that and do I need 50 or 60 amp fuses? Please let me know. Thanks.

3.89 to 3.91 before running them today for a few blocks. Why would a 40A fuse blow. It makes no sense.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Watts in vs Watts out - umpteenth time!
Motors are rated by output watts ... not input watts!

At ~50% of top motor speed the motor is about 50% efficient ...
Requires 1000w input from battery to motor out 500w.

If motor geared for 37mph ...
At 3.7mph requires 1000w input from battery to output 100w from motor!

 

[latecurtis]

If motor geared for 37mph ...

Motor is geared for 27mph.

How do I keep from blowing fuses then? Do I go to 50 or 60 amp fuses?

 

[DrkAngel]

40A slow blow fuse blows at sustained ≥40A.

Full throttle: - 40A controller draws 40A till possibly near 50% of top geared speed

<$10 40A controller is unlikely to be precisely accurate!

I recommended "40A, or larger, slow blow fuse".

 

[latecurtis]

Thanks DA I will try 60 amp. I need to test out at least close to full open pot quickly or equal to 3/4 throttle from a start as I don't want to get 3 or 4 miles from home and blow a fuse going up a small or moderate hill. What about that 90 tooth sprocket for the Currie?

 

[latecurtis]

There is something that I don't get. The motor watts in vs motor watts out. It makes sense in the audio world when AC current in to an amplifier is converted into DC going out to speakers which convert electrical current into sound thru mechanical energy. Too much current and the speaker fails to convert resulting in heat build up and voice coil failure.

A controller and motor should work in a very similar way. DC current going to a controller which regulates voltage and current going into the motor. The motor converts the current into mechanical energy measured in torque, horsepower or newton's of force as the sprocket on the motor drives the chain. The motor output is not in watts. Like a speaker output is measured in decibels of sound pressure and too much current and voltage especially at lower rpms will result in heat build up and motor failure similar to the voice coil in a speaker.

If 1,000W going into a controller and only 500W goes out to the motor then there is 500W of current producing 500W worth of heat inside the controller. It is a little hard for me to imagine that. I really would like to know the answer and is why I don't comprehend it. I do understand efficiency as 500W of input to the motor wont produce 500W worth of work due to internal friction but 1/2 or more electrical current going in being lost makes little sense. I hope you can explain it in a in a way that I understand. Please let me know if you can. Thanks for your patience.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Which part don't you understand? Here's maybe another way to think of it:

If you put 1000W into a motor, then use an infinitely strong clamp to clamp the wheel, how much work is being done? 0W - no motion = no work. How much power is being put in? 1000W. That energy needs to go somewhere - In this case, it's turned into heat and electromagnetic radiation, and probably a tiny bit into noise and deformational energy.

That should be the clear cut case, right?

Now, what if instead of an infinitely strong clamp, you resisted half the power - say by hauling a 220lb rider up a hill - gravity will give you 500w of power in the opposite direction to the wheel turning - Well, same thing will happen - 500w of energy is going to turn into motion, and 500w of energy is going to be converted to heat.

This graph might be useful to see what the effect is like:

This graph may look confusing, because it's strict motor efficiency. From battery to wheel efficiency, DA would be right - you'd be below 50% at about 1/2 speed, not the 1/3rd it shows on this graph.

 

[DrkAngel]

Seems like I've explained this to you about a dozen times already! ... ???

Controllers can be 95%+ efficient ...

Motors vary from ~0% efficient at 0 rpm to around 90% efficient at peak rpm.
Energy is "wasted" in the motor, as heat.

How do you think motors burn up?
1000w electrical energy into a motor going up a steep hill at 1 mph = 50w of mechanical energy + 950w of heat energy.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. The Third St. Blues/ Brakes Finally


I got it now. Thanks guys. I knew the energy had to go somewhere so what Sunder said makes sense. Computers have liquid nitrogen coolers for high end gaming. Wonder about future DC motor developments in research.

Not only did we do the brakes for the cargo bike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j75HXeIM5k&feature=youtu.be

we put the diamond Back together. Doug and I. That is cool and he is my friend. Don't do electric though. I almost sold the diamond Back to Eric who showed up as he laid three 20s on the table. One more would have took it but he didn't. White bike was a parts bike I bought for $30. Was on my way back from there when I blew the fuse. Third St. Same St. I burned the Currie motor out on. The St. is kind of level though. BUT! the hill Congress St. that was climbed from Broadway (Approx. 4 blocks) is at a considerable degree slope. One of the top five in the City I believe.

Thing is I walked all the way to third St. and then to the level part before even turning the bike on today and it still failed miserably!
When I burned out the Currie motor I did not know what I know now that I learned here. I showed NO MERCEY whatsoever on the Currie motor or batteries. It was FULL throttle all the way up the hill with very little pedal assist and basically started slowing down on third St. right around where the fuse blew today.

I don't care if the new motor only goes 16mph. The thing is it is chrome and will complement the diamond Back and around here people like it. The only thing that will make it work for SLA though is a rack on the back custom build the exact size as the four SLAs. The bike has a heavy front hub motor so must have weight in the back anyways. Plus am sick of all those things in my hallway. When they go I will have plenty of room for LIPO.

The bike with the new brakes is ready for a back rack for cargo as with all that weight in the front the bike needs weight back there anyway. I just hope I don't have to run it without a fuse. I got one left that I got at Advanced auto. I don't even know if they have 50 or 60 amp fuses. I don't even know if the controller will handle that much current. The same 36V controller that burned up the Currie was in the video I did last year with the controller on fire. :lol: 1,000W its whole life balls to the wall most of the time and still ran even in flames. Its UNCANNEY. Like the movie Christine. Trick was proper gearing. 48V@36V = 2,250rpm with 1Hp 11T motor and 80T wheel #25 sprockets. Geared for approx. 24mph.

I really don't know what to do. I want a reliable cargo bike like the Currie was in a 20" bike. The diamond Back is a show bike and will look like total SHIT with anything but a Chrome hub motor like I ordered. Good for a downtown cruiser. If it is only 16mph I will add pedal gears. I will get a cassette with at least 10 gears.

Glad I ordered the 36V 800W motor as I will have decent gearing for this bike with the good brakes. 533W@24V 1867rpm 11T motor and 60T spoke = approx. 20mph. Like a mini Currie I guess. Just what I need.

 

[DrkAngel]

1 race bike. approx 37mph. - left

Smart? ... going to small front wheel!
Makes those pesky front brakes useless!

 

[latecurtis]

1 race bike. approx 37mph. - left

Smart? ... going to small front wheel!
Makes those pesky front brakes useless!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j75HXeIM5k&feature=youtu.be

Where are you getting 37mph from? Right not left in the picture DA. I am not doing anything with that bike on the left currently. It would be impossible to put U brakes on the back of the 24" with the 1,000W motor back there. The U brakes Doug installed on the 20" bike are VERY good. As you probably know BMX enthusiasts dont run front brakes. A lot of BMX bikes don't come with front brakes so people like Doug understand that and want to get the full 20 or 30% stopping power the rear brakes are capable of. Not 10 or 15%. see U tube video link above.

Actually he did not even want to bother with front brakes but I insisted to have BOTH. That is because I have been listening to you guys here on the forum. Your advice did not go to deaf ears. Only the part about NOT building 20" bikes. Everything else IS sinking in to my grey matter. :lol:

I understand now it is the gearing blowing the fuse especially when attempting to accelerate quickly. I will be taking it easy by accelerating slowly so I don't have to keep changing fuses.

When I get the new motor at 24V, 533W and 1867rpm it will be geared for 20mph. A decent cargo bike. Also with a cargo rack and weight in the back it will be balanced. The bike is a Mongoose 20" bike. This is not the 24" build with the 1,000W motor and 48V controller geared for 35mph. You got my builds mixed up which is understandable as I have so many e bike projects going at one time.

I have been trying to listen to the advice here. The only thing I have not listened to is building 20" bikes. I got the best guy I know around here to help me with the brakes. These brakes are definitely road worthy. Doug knows what he is doing. LOTS of people of all age groups go to Doug for brake work. Sometimes when he lived around the corner he would get involved in computers or games and my bikes would sit there for days but not last night. Also I got the correct motor coming in about a week for the 20" cargo bike. It should not blow fuses and run much better then when geared properly.

The Diamond Back will also be up and running when I get the Hub kit. It will need a professional back factory rack. There will be NO milk crate for a basket. Just a rack to hold batteries as small and compact as possible. I am not sure if they make a chrome rack. The black SLAs would not look so bad on a small chrome rack with a black compartment built out of wood and painted black just large enough to hold them.

Also they do make fuses 60, 80 and 100 amp for car stereos and Amps at Wall Mart. They are 32V and will work fine for 6s LIPO. Thing is it has been raining all day so I slept until now. I did not feel like getting wet and cant run an e bike in this crap. Thanks for the good advice.

I will be building the 24" bike with the 20" wheels though in the future. Also the brakes Doug will be installing on it WONT be useless. Doug knows how to install Hydraulic brakes. He is talking about doing it for his Haro mountain bike. The kit is $160 each side. A little pricey but necessary if or when I do decide to run two motors.

Also with 20" wheels front and back on a 24" frame and a motor on the front and one on the back with a triangle case holding Lipo packs on either side weight distribution will be even with a low center of gravity. Hydraulic brakes will be perfect for that. I am not sure yet but do know Disk brakes front and back will be the minimum brake upgrade for that build if I cant afford Hydraulic. Thanks again.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

1 race bike. approx 37mph. - left

Smart? ... going to small front wheel!
Makes those pesky front brakes useless!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j75HXeIM5k&feature=youtu.be

Where are you getting 37mph from? Right not left in the picture DA.

Just going by the labels you put on your picture!

1 cargo bike. approx. 16mph - red center
1 commuter bike. approx. 20mph - right
1 race bike. approx 37mph. - left

 

[DrkAngel]

According to the graph on page 5 of this post part way down from the top a mountain bike is capable of 23mph@500W.
A race bike is 26mph@500W.
A fully recumbent bike about 30mph I think.
Where does a light 20" BMX bike fall into.

Wind resistance is the majority factor, so ... about the same as a mountain bike.
But, with heavy rider, LiPo plus Lead acid batteries on small tires! ... road resistance might become a major factor ... ?

Likely, worse than a mountain bike!

 

[latecurtis]

Yes I changed my mind about putting the hub motor on the red bike. The red bike is crap and will take the rear rack off for the 20" bike with good brakes and set it up for cargo.

The diamond Back needs a back rack too for batteries. The thing is though it has to look REALLY GOOD. Since the bike is getting chromed out it will need to be chrome too. The battery compartment will be as small as possible to hold four 10Ah SLAs which will eventually be replaced by four Lipo packs.

The 24" race bike wont be getting another Unite motor for the front either. When I do get around to building it a 1,500W hub motor will go on the front. 24". The 20" wheel is just for moving it around when I need to get to other bikes behind it. :lol: The Hub kit will have disk brakes and I may need new forks to accommodate that. Also I would like the best brakes possible for the back but may need an extra long cable.

The picture shows where I plan on installing them. Under the rack and I have four steel posts to install brackets for the brakes. Going to get fuses today. Hopefully if I don't (Horse it) an old expression associated with gas engines. I should be ok. Smooth easy acceleration to 15mph top speed should not draw anywhere near 40 amps.

I have two questions for the day.

1.) I looked for a chrome rear rack for a 20" bike but had no luck. The kit will be here Monday. I really need that. Post a link if possible.

2.) Will that 90T sprocket I posted the other day work for the Currie. The 500W motor needs a home and the Currie needs a motor. 90T with an 11T #25 sprocket is minimum for a 26" wheel.

Thanks for posting.

LC. out.

 

[gogo]

The defective controller was also posted in your e bike tool box.
It would be nice to find out why it wont run a motor at low speed. It makes a huge grinding noise as it grossly over volts the motor for some reason and I don't see an adjustment on it. I would like to send it to your store so you can maybe diagnose the problem. I will never hook it up again the way it is and nobody around here can fix it. Also I paid over $40 for it if I recall. It is supposed to be variable from 24 to 60V which is better than the one with the built in pot (50V cutoff) if it was not defective for some reason still UNKNOWN. It could run 24, 36 or 48V. Good for a 1,000W 48V motor. I cant do that with the one with the pot. Please let me know as I can send it to you to look at. PM me with the address if you are willing to look at it. Thanks for posting.

LC. out.

The controller pictured is the notorious YK-43b. It has very little current limiting, if any. It'll easily pull 100A out of your battery at startup and only god knows how many amps that sends to your motor.

 

[latecurtis]

ok. so will it ever serve any purpose other than full throttle e bike drag racing? Is there a voltage it can operate at normally? What type of e bike application is it meant for? Why would a company manufacture such a thing and why is it in DAs e bike tool box? I would like to know as I am out at least $40.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280912828366?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

It says ended DA. you may want to remove the entire link. it sure don't belong in your e bike tool box. It is a robbery!

Thanks gogo and post again if you can.

Sincerelly LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. Big Toy.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=79511


Getting my pedal sprocket hooked up tonight.

Didn't happen. chain breaker broke. No pedal.

Next week it will be like Christmas for me. The kit and 36V motor will be here and the red monster. That's three names for it. Doug was right. He said when I saw it up close I would want it. Hope you see it DA as it is up your alley.

I picked up those fuses at Wall-Mart. $5 and change. I need to solder wires to them and then electrical tape. Was not shelling out $10 for fuse holder. Hell No!

I may have to settle for a black rack on the back of the Diamond back. The factory one that is on the 24" build for now. No money after Monday. Oh well I can always replace with chrome later. I also got black heavy duty forks in case the chrome ones on it wont work for the motor. I will post pictures tomorrow. I really need to know as I want this build to go smooth. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Not a bad mid-end gaming PC. I doubt it would be able to drive a game in full detail 4K though. $350 is a pretty good price though.

Even though it's got 8 cores, very few games actually have more than 2 threads, meaning anything more than a dual core won't use the extra power. It'd be like having a V12, being stuck in NYC Peak Hour traffic. You might as well shut down 10 of the cylinders to save fuel!

Make sure you're using more than 8gb of memory, otherwise there's no point buying more.

You can have the fastest computer in the world, but it feels as slow as the slowest bottleneck. I didn't see what kind of drive it had, so if it has a magnetic drive, money is better spend on an SSD or better still, multiple raided SSDs or a PCI-E SSD, to get it to feel really snappy.

I only play MMORPGs these days - World of Warcraft in particular - so I don't need a top end gaming machine either, but since I like to run it on a 28" 4k screen, I got a GTX 980ti. Runs like a dream even in mass combat.

 

[latecurtis]

Thanks for posting. I got the 36V 800W Unite motor. Board supports up to 32 gig ram. Will get a second 8 gig stick. Doug says I do need that hard drive you mentioned. Also said it will support 4K gaming but not virtual reality.

Also got the 20" hub kit today. This Dual core HP PC going offline to run 32 bit programs. Replacing with a Gateway Quad APU for Netflix Hulu Pirates Tides of fortune and this ES forum. Got to go as I need to install 8.1 get my router configured and open the box to see my 20" hub kit. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Seems like you're having a lot of fun with new toys over there.

A friend came over last night - last time he was over was 3 weeks ago, when I had brought home the side of the road 26er. He saw it in the same state, and said "I thought you were rebuilding that. Get stuck"?

Stuck? I haven't had enough time to get stuck! It should be a very straight forward conversion - no more than 2-3 hours, but I haven't even had that much time in the past 3 weeks.

Oh well. It's a time of life I guess. At the peak of my career, and have two small children and a wife that needs attention, and a dad that works in retail that wants to retire (spent the weekend stripping down shelves so he can vacate the shop for sale).

 

[latecurtis]

View attachment 3

That is how it was when I opened the box. I just want to make sure it is right before I torque it down. I transferred the brakes over from the red bike and got the tires on it. It needs pads installed and a brake line and lever for the front. The big red machine is installing games from Frostwire. It took me awhile to get the HP back online to post this. No windows paint or cant find it on 8.1. Need it to reduce pictures down to 1200 by 900 pixels. When I do they post 97% of the time.

I will need to install the rear rack off the 24" bike on the Diamond Back. I will install the controller on the side of it and build a battery box the exact size to haul four SLAs or four Lipos. The picture shows that if I place the Lipo packs lengthwise two of them fit perfect on the rack. If I stack four SLAs across the rack they take up about the same space except the SLAs are taller.

It looks great. The hub motor is much less noticeable than the Unite motor on the front with that huge chain and sprocket. The black rear rack is a little scratched up but can fix that with black paint. I will get the other 20" bike for cargo running too with the new 36V motor at 24V and 1800rpm for 20mph@ 533W but can use a break lining up sprockets.

I am also thinking about ordering a 36V controller or another variable voltage controller with the pot and putting the 1,000W 48V motor from the 24" bike and mounting it on the front of that 20" blue frame I bought for $5 for parts. I could get two 5s Lipo packs for it and at 2250rpm and 1 hp it would go about 26mph with the 56T spoke sprocket and 11T motor sprocket.

I am very excited about riding the Diamond Back. Basically the way I am setting it up it will be a mini version of the Schwinn with the hub motor Please let me know if the hub motor is correctly installed before I tighten it down. There is no lawyers lip on those forks. Doug gave me them as they are wider than the chrome forks that were on the D back. Also stronger plus the chrome forks would not fit the hub motor. These black steel forks fit perfect. Please let me know if it is installed right. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Follow directions for proper install.
"Easy to install within 30 minutes.Installation manual available when request by mail. "

Contact seller and\or manufacturer if directions unclear.

Don't forget a torque arm! ... or 2. (Cheap insurance against nearly immediate self-destruction!)

But ... IMO ... assembly looks questionable!

 

[latecurtis]

No instructions in box. Was hoping for some.Also hoping the picture I posted was correct? I got torque arm covered. Just wish I knew if I am not going to pinch the wire or not?

Axel nuts that came with kit are monsters. smaller nuts with same inside diameter will allow room for 2 washers with closed end of wrench between. Small muffler clamps hold the top of wrenches both sides and replace those expensive contraptions for about 1/4 of the cost.