new eZip motor

[DAND214]

If the cells are already paralleled in the kit then you only need one wire per cell group. You sure don't want a wire to each cell, you would be lost in a rats nest of wires. Try to go with the 3000 mah cell or higher.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

If the cells are already paralleled in the kit then you only need one wire per cell group. You sure don't want a wire to each cell, you would be lost in a rats nest of wires. Try to go with the 3000 mah cell or higher.

The kit is what I make it. I believe it snaps togeather for any configuration possible. It would be up to each person if they wanted to parallel the cells or not. I see no sense in a BMS if the cells being balanced are in parallel. Each cell should be balanced seperate. I do not see a problem with that wiring diagram and if I can get each BMS for less than $3 with free shipping then why not ?

Check out my wiring diagram and please let me know.

As far as large capacity cells over 3 Ah , I believe there is a 3.4 Ah limit on 18650 cells. That is the exact reason I was looking at 26650 cells as I really wanted cells closer to 5 Ah per cell. However I already odered the kit.

That said if I can still get a sweet deal on 26650 cells I will not need the kit as 12 cells in parallel series would be a 6S - 10 Ah pack with a single BMS if I do decide to parallel them up. If they are brand new I do not see any problem. The solderless kit should be well suited for old laptop cells which have many different voltages and the small BMSs would be perfect to balance each cell seperate like in my diagram.

I might take the new ride out for a spin today. Not sure. Thanks for posting.

LC out.

 

[DAND214]

That will work, I thought you meant, TO EACH CELL.
I think the top capacity 18650 is 3500 mah but they are getting better. And the old cells are getting cheaper. Like the 3000 mah cells. If they are real that's not bad.

Back to the 26650 cells you keep bringing up. They were/are lower voltage cells and a 12s pack is 36v not 44. All cells are rated at their nominal voltage. Which means the 26650 cells are 3.3/3.2 v not the 3.7 you posted.
Please do not take this wrong, I'm just trying to save you at lot of disappointment.

Reasons for using a BMS is so you don't need to take them apart to charge them and put them back to use them. Also is so you can just plug a charger into the pack not taking part of the pack to charge them. Also so you don't need to put them back together and plug them together before using them all the time. Isn't the 36v packs with the BMS easier to work with?


Dan

 

[latecurtis]

That will work, I thought you meant, TO EACH CELL.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-BMS-15A-6S-24V-Protection-Board-For-18650-Li-ion-Lithium-Battery-Cell-6-Pack/142654475225?hash=item2136de8bd9:g:YTkAAOSwn9VaWakp

For $2:71 cents I guess they will be for each cell. As my diagram shows it is not difficult to do expecially since I ordered the kit. However it looks like I will have to solder the wires to the BMS. That means I will need to practice more on junk AA or AAA batteries or find a similar BMS with wires already attached or that plug in.

I will need to parallel them all for two wires. One positive and one negative. Run and charge will be the same wires I guess. It will be a bulk charge deal which is much more simple than dealing with balance plugs and a parallel board. I can use the 400 watt MegaCharger but not sure how many amps.

I am also confused on the LiLo and LiPo settings. For 18650 cells the video I watched on youtube showed that these 3.7V cells are charged at 4.2V exactly like I have been charging 6S LiPo. Full charge is 4.2V per cell but usually settles between 4.15 and 4.18 a few minutes after unhooking from the charger.

I will just need to hook 2 packs up in series for 12S. It will be awhile before I have $$$ to order 18650 cells anyway. Hopefully I can get a deal and those cheap BMSs will still be available. I may order the BMSs first if I can come up with $20. Please look my diagram over and let me know about hooking up the BMSs.

Back to the 26650 cells you keep bringing up. They were/are lower voltage cells and a 12s pack is 36v not 44. All cells are rated at their nominal voltage. Which means the 26650 cells are 3.3/3.2 v not the 3.7 you posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sPzWe3CsOM

That is the video I was waiting for on the 26650 cells. Tested and close enogh to 5 Ah per cell. See diagram below. I would require a 60 volt controller for that but with the 1,800W brushless motor I would get 40 mph easily. Also the 48V 1,000 brush motor would do at least 33 mph but 60V brush controllers are almost impossible to find.

Unfortunatlly those are sold out and the 3.3 Ah cells are not worth bothering with. I will still keep my eye out for 26650 cells rated at least 5,000 mAh.

My point is the larger higher capacity 26650 cells > 5 Ah are better than the 18650 cells. Just not as common and no solderless kits that I know of. I will call the company now to find out for sure. Thanks.


LC out.

 

[DAND214]

OK LC. You want them get them. You added .1v to the cells, ok all that is miss leading. They are 3.2/3.3 nominal not 3.4. No big deal.

As for charging. If you charge more than one pack, at least 5 maps and more if more packs. I charge at 10 amps with my 16a pack and it is rated at 2c or 32 amps. NO WAY I WOULD CHARGE AT THAT RATE. 5 to 10 in your case....

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

OK LC. You want them get them. You added .1v to the cells, ok all that is miss leading. They are 3.2/3.3 nominal not 3.4. No big deal.

I don't see any. The good 26650 cells are gone. I would not even consider anything less than 5,000 mAh or 5 Ah per cell.

Most likley I will be ordering 18650 cells rated at 2,500 mAh or 2.5 Ah per cell. If I can get 3,000 - 3,400 mAh cells I will but anything rated over that is probably less than 1,000 mAh or 1 Ah per cell. Also I am only going with Samsung, LG , Sony or Panasonic. Generic cells are usually total garbage.

With that said I ran the old LiPo packs today to take over $10 in cans back. Next is a load of laundry after I check cell voltage. The laundrymat is less than a half a mile but will be making two trips.

Voltage close to 4.0 All above 3.96V. The packs are still very stable. I only use them for Wall- Mart which is around 2 miles round trip and laubdry matt. They could very well last another two years or more as I do not use them often.

3.84 to 3.86V after two laundrymat trips and a trip to redbox. On my way downtown with the new ride and SONA packs.

Thanks.

3/24/18. 5:12 PM.

I made it back last night. It made it up the hills. I will check voltage now. It looks like I did not use much energy at all from the SONA packs last night.


I am really broke. Looking at the first or second week next month before I will have the solderless kit and cells to build it. :x

Yes I am sad and mad both. I really want to build the 29" Mongoose with the disk brakes front and rear with the 1,800W brushless motor and my first belt drive however without a decent pack > 50V I wont get the 40 mph I am looking for. I also will need a 72V - 3 killowatt brushless controller as I plan on running three 6S packs in series from 18650 cells.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Volt-1800-Watt-Brushless-Drive-Motor-Engine-Unit-Scooter-Bike-48V-1800W/263011093613?hash=item3d3caecc6d:g:6soAAOSwE7JaVCQW

https://www.ebay.com/itm/72V-2500W-Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Speed-Motor-Controller-For-E-bike-Scooter/272884232039?hash=item3f892aef67:g:S3cAAOSwEzFZ3t3c

That will have to work. The 3 killowatt brushless controllers are two times as much $$$ but will keep looking.

1,800W / 48 = 37.5 * 72V = 2,700W - 18S @ full charge 4V per cell.

to 66.6V * 37.5 = 2,497.5 empty 3.7V per cell.

gearing will be for 42 mph respectively. :lol:

Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. No to the cro for now. Yes to a 43 mph Haro V3.

Unfortunately the Haro v3 is not suitable for a cro motor even with custom dropout extensions.

Doug traded me for a gaming PC and stated that the bike is aluminum and NOT strong enough for Hubzilla.

Also $$$ for Hubzilla is non existant. That motor kit is closer to $1,000 than $500

The 1,800 watt brushless motor is closer to $200

Spoke sprockets however won't work for me this time. They are not strong enough and can warp the wheel. The only thing I will use is a sprocket which bolts to where a disk brake goes. Also a 26" rear rim for disk should be at least 1/2 the price of a replacement currie wheel.

2,500 watts @ 72V will require a perfect aligned sprocket which is almost impossible to accomplish with a rag tag sprocket.
I will need an 80 tooth minimum for 72V.

I checked out the sprocket calculater on page 71. Gearing with an 80T sprocket for wheel and 11T for motor will give 46 mph gearing at approx. 4,800 rpm and 2,700 watts. Slightly overgeared but workable. With the 2,500 watt controller 43 mph should be a breeze. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and LiPo Fire Burns.

I can't afford batteries right now. Also not wanting to bother with all those BMSs. Too much work. I think that if I get a parallel board and charge four 6S packs then simply take the cells out and run in 12S.

I hope this will work. I still have to connect each row but am thinking it will be easier to charge them all like this. I just want to make sure my wiring is perfect as to not short the new cells or blow up one of my LiPo chargers. A second pack exactly the same can be charged with my other 6S LiPo charger. I have the 200 watt Skycgarger and the 400 watt Megacharger Dan sent me.


Bottom pic is 4S balance plugs I think Dan sent me. Not sure but think the 6S charger will also do 4S. I can run 8S on those variable controllers like I got on the Currie if I wanted to. 48 + 32 = 80 so a box of 80 or 100 would be a great deal if I could afford them and they were at least 2.5 Ah per cell. I am hoping I can run and charge now without breaking up the pack until I have to replace the cells after a few years.

2.5 Ah cells will give me 10 Ah (48 volts @ 4V per cell Full) to 44.4V @ 3.7V per cell close to empty) I will average it to 3.8V * 12 * 10 for 456 watt hours. The SONA packs are 3.8V * 10 = 38 * 8 Ah = 304 watt hours.

In the next few days I will have finished the hardware and will be ready to simply snap the cells into place when I finally get them. A box of 50 cells is minimum as each 6S pack will be 24 cells so I will need 48 cells for two 6S packs which I will run in series for 48 to 44V. This is a big step for me so please let me know if I am on the right track.

OK. I got up close color coded pictures. I know a BMS is reccomended but I really want to balance charge exactly like I do the LiPo packs. It is much simpler. I was going to order a BMS for each six cells in series however would rather just balance charge with my LiPo charger and just test my voltage to calculate my range so that I do not run the packs below 3.5V per cell.

The top diagram is different from my bottom picture as the power wires are wired different. I might need to move the power wires in the botom picture from the bottom to the top. I see that and also see that I need the positive bullet to be male so will have to switch those also. I was hoping for someone else opinion to make sure which way is actually the right way.

Thanks and please let me know so I can finish building the packs. All the hardware shall be hooked up by my next post. only the wiring may need to be changed. Either way the bullets will be on top and bolted to the last row. The only question is if they need to be switched to work with my LiPo charger ? (see bootom pic.) I will have a tupper-ware container for waterproofing and all I will need to do is snap the cells into place and balance charge then run. Thanks and please let me know if my wiring is correct.

I was downtown about 11PM outside of a pizza place. There was a cop on foot patrol about 30 feet away and he looked right at my bike. I was talking with a friend and even showed him the motor. When I left the cop looked right at me. I unlocked the bike and walked it to the street as riding on sidewalks is not allowed. I simply pedaled away and waited until I was about three blocks away and around the corner before turning on the motor.

OK.

According to google images I do have it correct. It seems that nobody want's to post. It really don't matter anyway because I can't afford good 18650 cells anyway. Those LG and Samsung batteries are like $40 for 20 cells and I need 24 cells per pack and 48 total cells for 12S. That is around $100 which I do not have and will not have anytime soon with $400 utility bill, $650 for rent and $100 for phone and internet. I wont be posting for awhile.



LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. 18 free cells just laying around.

Unfortunatlly the kid downstairs was drunk. He opened two and I opened one. He beat the s h i t out of his with a hammer so some of the cells are dented. I used a hammer but in a different way to pry the case apart so my cells did not get dented.

OK.

I may not be able to build a 24 cell 6S pack right now but may be able to build an 18 cell 5 to 6 Ah pack if these cells are close to 2,000 Mah. From what I have saw on youtube the cheap Chinese cells do not weigh 42 + grams. All of these do.

The cells to the far left are below 2V and about 1.7V on average. The cells to the right of the scale are between 2V and 2.6V. The next row to the right are all around 2.6V and the last two greater than 3V and around 3.2V. I will label each but am looking for a way to charge them as I know the LiPo charger will net recognize the lower voltage cells. I will need six cells all greater than 3.2V I think. I will need to find a laptop charger and charge the weakest cells first. three rows of two cells in parallel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62lPdwBd-zI&feature=youtu.be

http://prntscr.com/izjwsa

That was all I could find and doubt it will work as 19.06 / 5 = 3.812V which is too Low and 19.06 / 4 = 4.765V which is way too high so I guess I wasted my time again. I will need a 3.7V charger and will need to charge each cell and then wait overnight and test voltage before building my first pack.

I think Wall-Mart has a charger. I think I saw it when looking at their cells. They also have new cells I can order at a decent price,

https://www.walmart.com/ip/2018-New-Upgraded-4pcs-x-High-Drain-INR-18650-35A-3-7V-Rechargeable-Battery-2500mAh-New-Purple/900589993?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=15196&adid=22222222227135569161&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=244134858225&wl4=pla-402782959355&wl5=9004740&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=118787327&wl11=online&wl12=900589993&wl13=&veh=sem

I won't need a Wall-Mart charger. I have 1S capability and can simply charge each cell. I will start with one of the blue cells as they are all about the same voltage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzEHsJVZhA

I don't get the video. i thought all 18650 cells had negative and positive on opposite ends. Are these things safe or not ? How did that short out ? Please let me know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoFRrmhXoVw

This video shows that these cells are durable. A little dent probably won't matter right. I seperated the dented cells from the non dented cells. I can take some close up pictures tommorow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF9fhlr9S5s&t=28s


https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-battary-For-Dell-Battery-Type-J1KND-11-1V-48Wh-Laptop-Computer-Battery-US/332547889159?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3Da02eebae9e6a4088bafbe4bcd0cd594a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D162969396183%26itm%3D332547889159&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Is that a scam. Or can I get 6 new 18650 cells for that price and all I will need to do is take it apart ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRg62AMB590

I used to have one of those vices a long time ago. I could still do that wilh the clamps I have now and pieces of wood. The retard downstairs was drinking and did not care about the cells. He never saw an 18650 cell I guess. He wanted to see what one looked like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOquwy8OOc&feature=youtu.be

I am pairing up cells with exact voltage or very close.

Not sure about bottom pic. Again I have been misjudged. Some people feel I have anger issues. I did not get angry tonight but was disgusted in my friends impatience and not listening to reason. Now I am not sure if the dented cells are safe to use. I have limited and few choice in friends and have to deal with a complete retard for a friend. He did cook food though and let me borrow money for a change. I just wish I had a friend who works on e bikes when sober.

This video makes no sense. How can a battery short like that ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzEHsJVZhA

If anyone reads this please post if you can. Thanks.

LC out .

 

[DrkAngel]

.
... Better look at Homemade Battery Packs!

Some highlight:
Don't use damaged cells
Laptop cells designed for ≤1C discharge
How to open laptop packs
Testing cells
Charging low cells
etc ... etc ... etc ... (with Yul Brynner voice)

ps: no name brand laptop cells @ $2 each ... not a bargain!

 

[latecurtis]

http://prntscr.com/izpdn4


Yea. I guess I was right in thinking that 26650 cells are better.

I bought the solderless kit for nothing because the FULL RIVER cells were the way to go.

Mabye not though as there are tons of 18650 cells out there.

Question is which deals are great and which are a rip off.

I proved my solder skills a few posts back. I can use electric , duct or gorilla tape to build a pack. The solderless kit is easier. Thanks for posting DA. Also I hope you and all of my friends on ES have had a happy easter holiday.

LC out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Better keep reading, on Fullriver cells ...

 

[latecurtis]

http://prntscr.com/izq37s

Why am I reading this.


I really wish that kid downstairs did not hit with hammer. Not sure but charger said 3.7V so charging voltage should not be greater than 4.2v with LiPo and 4,1V LiLo but was set on LiPo. Where did these cells come from ?

mabye Steven Kings TommyKnockers. Ever read that one. Alien batteries. :lol:

Please let me know if you know.

LC out.

4/2/18

I just got more crazy cell voltages. I tried adjusting the screw inside but it did not help much. I also tested new AAA and got 2.3+ volts.
My meter is shot. The only other 9V battery I got is out of a smoke alarm and tested less than 2V. It looks like I am screwed. Without an accurate meter I can't build packs. :x

I am charging the old LiPo packs now. I need to do grocery shopping. I will pick up a new 9V battery. I wish I had the money for a new meter also. Mabye tommorow. Thanks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-200PCS-3-7V-3000mAH-Li-ion-Rechargeable-18650-Battery-For-Flashlight-USA-TN/162682792552?_trkparms=aid%3D777003%26algo%3DDISCL.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3D0107bfeba0ab44e199bb3c86178e935c%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D173205972594%26itm%3D162682792552&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KndKJ-COBw&t=1s

LC. out.

8:57 Am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clawhNsORts

classic example of making a simple kit 10 times more complicated. i think I can build a decent 44 volt pack for around $60 now that I have the solderless kit.

4/3/18

I am going to order the 100 cells for $70. They are generic and rated for 3,000 mAh. I am gambling on them being at least close to 2,000 mAh. If they were rated at 5,000 or 9,800 mAh then I would know they are less than 1 Ah each and definatlly would not order them. I can build four 6S packs and should all fit in a waterproof tupperware container and a little silicone around the holes the wires come out.

I can leave the balance connecters inside and take off the lid when balance charging the packs. I will need a parallel board. Or I might still order those 6S - 15 amp BMSs. Not sure. I am also getting more laptop batteries so that 6S pack I started will be seperate. I might have to order another solderless kit. I am building batteries this month. I also need to order another 6S-Y balance connecter for the old LiPo packs. I saw that when inspecting my wires last night.

I brought the 24" cargo bike up last night after grocery shopping. There is rust on the 800W hub motor on the rear as well as the bolts and steel that holds up the cargo rack. I will be replacing the bolts and painting the rusty steel with a rust converter and then cheap paint. I will be keeping busy in the e bike workshop even though I have to wait on the next build. Thanks.

LC out.

4:49 Am 4/4/18

Bottom pic. Cells ordered.

flawless performance. exercise like DA stated with active pedal assist and back home again. The geared hub motor is worth every penny and superior than any chain drive.

Also the ol lady got smarter and hid my beer from the retard (my friend) downstairs. I paid him back the $20 8 hours ago and he was up here trying to steal one of my beers. he was too lazy to walk 4 blocks to the store. She hid them and put them back in the fridge when he was gone. I had at least 9 downtown but am looking to drink at least 4 or 5 more. It was why I got p i s s e d a post a few pages ago and wa told I needed to see a shrink. I think I am normal and it is natural for anyone to get in·fu·ri·ate when someone steals from you.

I believe myself to be a normal person and mentally, semi sane. Everyone has their limits but I believe myself to be a decent person but definatlly not a good or willing victom in any situation. Anyone who steals from me or lies to me will never be my best friend. i still deal with the people downstairs but you guys are better friends to me.

The people here on ES have sent me gifts. The motor Sunder sent I will never sell and will ride again. I have everything that was sent to me and a lot of stuff from Dan and can't thank you guys enough as well as all the great advice from DA. You all are tottally awsome.

My friend downtown and I probably have paper folders several inches thick of mental health records. However I believe us to be the most sane people I know. We are both around 50 years old and drink beer and enjoy sy fy movies like lord of the ring , hobbit or aliens. We both like Star Trek and Star Wars. Resident Evil , We love Iron Maiden. ect. What could possibly be more normal than that. :lol:

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

I hope it is right. It looks ok but my first time doing anything like this.

What do you think ?

The yellow tape don't show up and looks white so had to make it yellow. I hope you can see my color coding and let me know if it is going to work.

If it does I will have enough cells to build four 8 to 10 Ah packs depending on how much they lied on capacity. I can run the Currie off of a single pack with the variable controller and carry extra packs when needed. When I fix the Schwinn and the spoke I will be able to run that and also the dual motor cargo bike which both motors have 24V - 6S controllers and is geared for a little more than 20 mph.

I would like to get six cells and charge them to make sure it works and mabye try out the variable controller with the Currie just to see it working then when the box of 100 cells show up I will be ready. Please let me know someone. Thanks.

LC out.
8:10 AM. 4/6/18.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_4i0yVUjvI&feature=youtu.be

4/6/18. 3:54 PM.

I pluged the charger back in and is charging nice and slow at 0.1 amp. I will be looking for the parallel board Dan sent to see if I can solder wires to it to make it functional once again since I butchered it back when I was scared of LiPo.

Not sure but might not need another solderless kit to make more packs if I do get some more cells. I think if I can find the perfect size drill bit and use my jigsaw I can make my own solderless kit out of wood, nuts amd bolts.

I have several diagrams I made in earlier posts and do not see why they would not work. Perhaphs I will do that for 26650 cells. I won't order Full river. However there are other name brand cells. I will probably order a second kit for the 18650 cells and am considering a lot of 200 of the same cells if the 100 cells I get perform well. I plan on building a lot of battery packs this spring.

I did not read what DA posted further but am willing to bet the Full river cells were not up to specs because they sat around on the shelf too long. I wanted the cells which were > 5,000 mAh which are gone, Not the lower capacity cells > 3,000 mAh DA ordered.

by DrkAngel » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:25 am

Better keep reading, on Fullriver cells ...

If 18650 cells are charged on the LiPo setting then I am wondering what the LiLo setting is for which is 4.1V instead of 4.2V. Is the LiLo setting for the 26650 cells or something totally different ? Please let me know in case I do buy them someday. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. My first 18650 battery pack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFXeCDof-V8&feature=youtu.be

I am still waiting on the box of 100 18650 cells. It seems that the kit was for 54 cells. The 6 cells will be my 22V test pack I guess. These old batteries won't make it a block but since it runs the motor it is the first pack I have built with 18650 cells. It seems that I will need a second solderless kit.

Mabye not though.

In fact I think I might just start making my own solderless kits. I will attempt it with wood and we shall see how successful it is.
If I do succeed I was wondering if it would be possible for me to patent my idea. I will leave it up to DA.

That is a scrap 2 by 4 piece and the hole is so perfect the battery is held snug with no glue or silicone which will make it cheaper to build and easy to remove cells which need replacement.

If I do build one and it works perfect and perhaphs better that the solderless kit I just bought I was hoping mabye DA would be interested in helping me start a website and help me to sell my solderless kits. I will supply all materials and labor and DA can help me set up the website and do the sales. Shipping will be paid by the customers. DA will get 1/3 profit from sales.

It should take less than $20 in materials to build 100 batteries in any configuration the customer wants. The kit can sell for approx. $50 so that is a $30 profit. Ten kits a week should be a piece of cake. Since I am on disability the bussiness should be in DAs name so I don't lose my disability check. If 40 kits a month are sold that is 40 * 30 - 1,200. DA can make $400 a month on average and only spend a few minutes a day. I should be able to build a couple kits a day in about an hour once I get good at it. Lets get rich bro. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. New order. Pedal chain time for the last 20" build.

Yes. It is time for a pedal chain which hopefully won't fall off. That 20" build was tested at 36 volts without a pedal chain. It is VERY difficult to get the pedal chain tight enough to stay on without moving the wheel and then screwing up the allignment of the motor and wheel sprocket on the opposite side.

This way I do not have to touch the wheel at all and simply install a new chain for pedal and hopefully the chain tensioneer will keep the pedal chain from falling off so I can actually pedal when someone comes up behind me in case it is a cop or whenever I see a cop.

I ordered the one splitter / chain breaker then realized I could be waiting around until June so ordered the second which will be here in about 5 days. I love my 700cc geared hub bike but still like riding the 20" chain drive sometimes.

I will be switching the 36V controller for a 48 volt controller and should get close to 30 mph with it like I did with the same motor and sprocket on a 20" wheel with the old cargo bike frame with the 24" wheel on the front. This bike has 20" wheels front and rear and is a 20" frame. It is small and easy to carry up the stairs. However here I have the option of chaining it up outside.

Either way once I get two 6S packs up and running and the pedal chain installed I will be ready to go out and have some fun with it. Thanks. Please post when you can.

LC out.

PS. Still in design stage. 3-3/4 " for each 24 cell 6S layer. The pack will take up some space if I want to build a 72 cell 20 Ah - 6S pack.

11-1/4" high by 9" long and 5" wide. 144 cells would be needed to make two for 12S in series. This would work fine for a front milk crate basket however a tottally different design will be needed for a triangle rack which would be a much more professional look when sanded and painted. I will work on the design and hopefully will be able to sell a triangle case which all the customer would need to do is pop the 144 cells in and seal it up , install it then run and charge,


4/12/18 12:59 AM

I won't need Home Depot. This large piece of wood was on the back porch. The dots inside the circles will be drilled with a small drill bit for the cells and the six holes outside the circles for the long connecting bolts. The top and bottom will be clamped togeather prior to drilling so everything lines up perfect.

My solderless kit is far superior in every way to the plastic kit except for size. My pack will be considerably larger. Other than that my kit is way cheaper. Less than $10 to construct vs the $30 + for the plastic lego kit. LOL.

Also if I do sell my kits they will be fully assembled and I am considering a 78 cell - 13S kit for $60 + shipping and a 130 cell 13S kit for $80 + shipping. Both will include a BMS if I can find them at a cheap enough cost. If not then each kit will be $20 cheaper. If the ccells are included then simply add the cost of the cells for each kit. Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Is LC a genius ?




Mabye not but my mother said when I was tested as a kid it was 160 but when I asked her if it was mabye 116 she said yes,

Therefore I may NOT be a genius but am definatlly closer than not.

I may need a drywall screw for the center as the steel bar is bent. Each hole must be exact so the steel will make sure one hole is not deeper than the rest.

Note that the wood I am using is not the best and this wood may not work but that is ok. it is just to show that my method will work but I might need to go and get a bus to Home Depot tommorow and get some real wood. I think pine is the best as hardwood could split and that would definatlly suck. Basically I should be able to use this method to build very lagre packs and then order triangle bags to put them in to for a professional look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OocmbvbbGEU&feature=youtu.be

Obviouslly this wood will not work and I may need to go a little deeper. I can easilly go 1/8" deeper by simply using the holes in the flat bar and placing 1/8" washers between the wood and steel bar and using small drywall screws.

When I pick up the piece of pine wood I will get a brand new flat bar and then it should work out absolutlly perfect. Wall -Mart had the connecters but was an assortment of different sizes. I will need to order a bulk package of crimp on terminals and a roll of 16 geage wire also.

I will need at least two more balance plugs about 8 inches long unless I decide to go with a BMS for the next two 24 cell 6S packs I build out of wood. I have one left for the second 6S pack I am building from the solderless kit.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/200-Pcs-1-25-4S-Insulated-Wire-Connector-Ring-Crimp-Terminal-Blue-22-16AWG/321653506543?epid=1039319830&hash=item4ae40b01ef:g:HYkAAOSwzRlaOaCE

I must also allow a little extra room between cells for the longer bolts which will connect the two pieces of wood and hold it all togeather. I think six bolts. Two on each end and two in the center should work. They do not need to be very thick so should be cheap.

It should be less than $15 to make a solderless kit where the customer just puts the cells in and screws it down with six bolts for run and charge. If I can find the exact tool for the nuts cheap I may include that as well as a tupperware container which the pack will fit in with optional space for the controller. I will calculate my time for labor and add that to the cost of the parts.

Customers will have to pay for shipping costs but I should be able to sell a 96 cell kit for around $50 or less. Definatlly cheaper than the $27 kit I ordered which was over $30 with shipping and only good for 54 cells. My kit will also be tottally assembled saving the customer the trouble of assembley and complex wiring. The deal will still be on for 33% profit for those of you interested in doing sales.

If the cells are of decent capacity then I will order 200 more cells next month and will build a large triangle rack. I will use plywood and wood glue the seams and several coats of drylock waterproof paint. It will hold 96 cells for 48V and 20 Ah. I will then sell it and use the profit to start mass producing them. Hopefully if everything goes well I can make at least $200 a week in sales.

$27 for the solderless kit is still a good deal for those who do not know how to work with wood but I have worked with wood for many years. I may not be a craftsman as I met a real true craftsman in my life in Springfield Mass. I worked for the guy one summer in 1999 when he was building his house. I may never be that good but just like the genius scale I am closer to being a craftsman than not.

Thanks.

4/12/18 12:59 AM

I won't need Home Depot. This large piece of wood was on the back porch. The dots inside the circles will be drilled with a small drill bit for the cells and the six holes outside the circles for the long connecting bolts. The top and bottom will be clamped togeather prior to drilling so everything lines up perfect.

My solderless kit is far superior in every way to the plastic kit except for size. My pack will be considerably larger. Other than that my kit is way cheaper. Less than $10 to construct vs the $30 + for the plastic lego kit. LOL.

Also if I do sell my kits they will be fully assembled and I am considering a 78 cell - 13S kit for $60 + shipping and a 130 cell 13S kit for $80 + shipping. Both will include a BMS if I can find them at a cheap enough cost. If not then each kit will be $20 cheaper. If the cells are included then simply add the cost of the cells for each kit.

OK. It looks like even though I used a steel bar when drilling out the holes that some holes are deeper than others. Every hole would need to be exactly the same for this to work. Does this mean that I have failed miserably. Absolutly not. I had extra steel washers so added a second for holes noticably deeper. However it will never be perfect.

My quick , easy and cheap solution is a package of 200 rubber washers which will be placed under the steel washers. Once tightened down each cell will make contact top and bottom. Thanks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EPDM-Rubber-Washers-1-2-X-3-16-ID-X-3-32-Neoprene-Multiple-Quantities-50/152593954339?hash=item23874ef623:m:mNU04Y-9nXiVJzOnr_nv2Sg

LC out.

PS. All ES members. You have my permission to share my posts. Forget what I said about patent. If I do sell these all I will be asking is labor cost which will be minimum wage per hour. Basically what that means is I have demonstrated how easily I can build a better product than what is available on e bay. Now anyone who reads my post here has a chance to build their own,

OR.

Perhaphs some day I could build a bunch and sell them to you. ???

However you may have a while to wait as I sincerelly apolagize but I happen to be slightly lazy.

Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Looks like I got robbed.

The cells are garbage. They only weigh 27 grams and the old laptop batteries are 42 grams. I knew I was taking a risk but am stuck with what I got. I gambled and lost and now I need to make the best of it.

My first thought was to get mad at the seller and say a bunch of dumb stuff on here but you guys are not posting and I wish someone would post again. I miss you guys and am not going to act like a jerk so you guys never post.

I figure the cells to be close to 1 Ah each if I am lucky so need to run all 96 cells togeather to get any decent range.

They all are around 3.67V on average. I balanced charged the first pack at 0.2 amps for 120 minutes. Four of the cells read 4.04 V each cell and two were 4.05 V.

Also the Vruzend kit is complete garbage. I do not recommend it. Only one on first pack but second were four loose screws. They would not tighten down and just spin around. I tested the pack and there was no connection.

The first one I took out , soldered , then put back in. Tonight I just yanked out the entire metal piece and replaced with a good one. Cheap plastic junk. My kit is just too big and have to make it smaller. Then it will work much better. My rubber washers and connecters are already ordered.

I was thinking about taking it a step further and getting a quart of fiberglass resin. I used to work with it a lot waterproofing the 6 foot 110 gallon fish tank I built. A couple coats of fiberglass resin , some 220 grit sandpaper and spray paint would work to make it look like a factory kit. You would not be able to tell it was made out of wood.

I really need to fix the parallel board and use it. I can solder now so should solder new connecters on it. I need to know if it will work and how to hook it up. ???

I only have one set of bannana plugs so can not run both LiPo chargers at the same time. I should also cut fresh wood tommorow and try to make the other two 6S packs smaller then the one in the pictures above.

My last question is will LiPo alarms work for these packs. I might even have four. One for each pack.

Thanks and please let me know.

4/15/18.

I read up on google and see that 0.5 amp per cell is the popular way to go but 0.25 is also reccomended and overnight charge. At 1.0 amp with four cells in parallel should be around 0.25 or 1/4 amp per cell. That is what I am doing now.

My next purchase will be used laptop batteries from a reputable seller. At least they should weigh at least 40 grams and not 28 grams. Should also be about double the capacity of these cheap junk cells.

I am not going to stop building batteries. It is fun. I just wish someone on here would post. I did not compleatly rule out a BMS. I am just balance charging for now as I am used to doing it with LiPo. Thanks.

LC out.

5:03 PM EST.

I just finished with the aop meeting. I am about to start drilling out the holes in the wood to build the other two packs. All I know is if 96 cells can't do the same job that 40 cells do then I should probably throw all 96 cells out. However I guess I could use them to go to Wall- Mart and back which is only two miles.

At this point I am just hoping that each cells capacity is close to or above 1 Ah or 1,000 mAh and not 500 mAh. it seems ridecelous that a 40 cell 10S pack or two 20 cell packs = about 8 Ah and 96 cells or four 24 cell - 6S packs are only 4 Ah. That would really make me angry.

And no I would not threaten the seller with violence. It would solve nothing however I believe that the seller needs to be dis-credited. People need to know about scammers so it don't keep happening. What ever happened to the better bussiness bereau.

these cheap rip off manufacturers and the companies who sell them need to be shut down. That would hit their bank accounts which could actually hurt worse then hitting their face. :lol: WE. The consumers should NOT be getting ripped off on e bay. E bay should be putting a stop to this and false advertizing should be a crime.

there is a saying I believe that evil prevails when good people do nothing to stop it. Lying I believe is a ten commandment. I know there are some religeous folk here. Why is it that nobody wants to lift a finger or a phone to report and stop this sort of thing. Is it now socially acceptable to lie and steal from consumers. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Thanks for posting.

Peace out.

 

[DAND214]

Sorry LC but we did worn you. Just because they look like diamonds they really aren't. I would defiantly let the seller that they are not as listed. Ask or tell him you want a refund, at least half. I bought some fake cells knowing they were not the listed 5000mah but only 1500mah. I got half the money back.
If you do try to contact the seller don't be a dick, just state the facts and tell that you will contact Ebay and give him a bad review.
Tell him you tested them at 1amp and they are what you said, garbage.

Using wood is not the way to make them small. Especially when all in line. You need to stagger them and closer together. It might for you but rather sure that nobody will try them. Most are looking for small in size. The triangle pack wont fit any bike that I know of.

Good luck with the build and the bogus seller.

Dan

I haven't posted as I am in the process of packing. Gonna get out of Chicago.

 

[latecurtis]

thank you Dan for posting. I need to test them to see the capacity.

I have made them smaller. the basket is almost 12 inches across and if I lay them like in the picture I can get four packs across and four on top for eight packs.

If 96 cells can make it downtown and back which is what the 40 cells can do in the SONA packs then I will not go after the seller for a refund. If not then I definatlly will and threaten to give him a bad review. That means the cells need to be at least 1,000 mAh each. If only 500 mAh I will seek a full refund.

At least I am learning how to build my own packs and won't need to buy another cheap plastic lego kit. :lol: Also instead of half my money back 100 more cells would allow me four more packs for eight total which can stack on top of the four. Hopefully that would be close to 10 AH. Now I will measure how much room I will have left over in my cargo basket.

I will still have 5 - 1/2 " left over. The packs take up 6-1/2" as the basket is 12" square or approx 1 cubic foot of space. 182 cells or eight 24 cell - 6S packs take up a little more than 1/2 of my cargo basket. .

That leaves plenty of room for my lock and chain. I could even put some canned goods there and go grocery shopping with a backpack. Basically each pack takes up about the same space as a 10 Ah SLA but about 1/3 of the weight.

I will order bannana plugs for the parallel board and solder them on to the wires I cut. Can I solder bullets to the yellow and black wires I cut off ? Being able to charge four or six packs at once would be ideal. The yellow is positive and the black negative right. I never used a parallel board but do know how to solder good enough to fix it.

Thanks again Dan for posting.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. I am sending them back and ordering SLAs.

http://prntscr.com/j5rph0

I really am sick of playing games. I watched the video on youtube about Ultrafire batteries which also weigh 28 grams and are 500 mAh or lower. I really am sick and tired of wasting my time and money.

I spent at least $200 on LiPo. Two 10 Ah - 6S packs and two - 8 Ah - 6S packs and two are out in the dryer with defective cells and the other two are on the front porch which need to go to the dryer.

It makes no sense to keep wasting my money. The SONA packs were the only good deal but useless for a 48 volt controller. I need at least 10 Ah and 48 volts.

Sure I could order the Samgung or LG cells if I was rich.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Samsung-18650-Lithium-ion-rechargeable-cells-for-power-tools-INR18650-20R/141841447313?hash=item210668b991:g:Jo4AAOSw8-tWXLUb

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-10-8PCS-Lot-Sony-VTC6-30A-18650-3000mAh-3-7V-High-Drain-Rechargeable-Battery/152886866129?hash=item2398c470d1:m:mt35J0xXyDnDP-QSLxRW2nw

For those prices I might as well buy this instead of making my own packs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/52v-15AH-LiFePO4-eBike-Scooter-Lithium-Battery-Pack-w-Charger-XT60-90-48v/222921731232?hash=item33e72baca0:g:vlMAAOSwLmda0AAq

At least I have proven that I can make my own packs and do not need some cheap plastic solderless kit. It just really sucks that e bay wants to play stupid games selling 18650 batteries. They have a bunch of used batteries that are supposed to be guarenteed.

http://prntscr.com/j5rvhq

I see two different ratings. If they are 1,800 mAh new then how could they be 2,300 mAh used. :lol: It really is not that funny. If they were so great then why would they sell them ? Why not just run them until they are done ? It makes no sense. It is disguesting.

At least with SLA you know what you are buying. A shitty , heavy , Lead ass battery which is only good for a few months if you only run them a couple times a week. Mabye I should just not order anything and just give up. I should sell all my e bikes except the 700cc hybrid with the SONA packs. Thanks.


LC out.

 

[DAND214]

That pack is used!

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

yes I know.

Did you read the entire post ?

I really do not know what to do. I am at a turning point. I really do not want to go to the post office and deal with sending them back as I never did it.

But on the other hand why would I want to build packs for 96 batteries which will only = 1/2 the capacity of my two SONA packs which are 8 Ah in parallel.

96 cheap 18650 cells are equel to 20 Samsung cells. There is no way they will make it downtown and back which is only about 2.6 miles. That is really sad and am tired of wasting my time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PACK-OF-4-12V-Volt-9Ah-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Batteries/142112658763?hash=item211693154b:g:Z64AAOSwYHxWOnCy

At least those will make it downtown and back mabye 50 to 70 trips. :lol:

I guess I will finish the second wood pack so I will have four : That way if someone happens to get a bunch of used laptop cells I will be ready to buy them. I know DA gets a bunch but would probably never sell any. He gets like thousands of them right ? I would gladly send a money order for $60 or $70 for 48 decent cells which would equel 8 Ah @ 48 volts. Thanks.

LC out.

4/16/18

OK.

I have watched some you tube videos doing capacity tests. I can do this with my LiPo charger I think. I have never done it and all I did was charge these cells. If they are 1 Ah or higher 96 of these batteries would be 48V and 8 Ah. If that is the case I might keep them. If not they are going back and since I can upload pictures to e bay then they should give me a full refund when I take pictures of the test results.

Since I am running 96 cells in parallel series for 48 volts I may even return them if only 1 Ah and definatlly if 900 mAh or less. The only way I will definatlly keep them is if they are all over 1 Ah. I am looking for close to 10 Ah for them to even be useful to me. I will also need to test at least a dozen cells to make sure they are all the same. Thanks.

http://prntscr.com/j5upch

Is is what I thought. I bet you can imagine what I would like to do. I better get 100% refund is all I know. I am really not happy about goiung back to SLAs and probably won't. Like I said I am about finished with e bikes and this post.

It is very obvious to me why gas still rules the world. It is because only about 10% of the people in the world can afford good batteries for any EV. A gallon of gas is usually less than $4 a gallon and is much more difficult to scam someone on. Basically until better batteries are produced any vehicle electric powered is a complete waste of time unless you make about $1,000 a week.

I waited about 3 weeks and worked hard on this battery project for nothing. 18650 batteries are garbage period. So is SLA and so is LiPo. They are all garbage. I am thru wasting my time. Everything is for sale. I will keep the 700cc build but when the SONA packs go I am selling that also. Mabye I will build a gas powered bike someday.

E bay sucks also and am about done with that too. If they let these crooks sell all these garbage batteries and lie their asses off just to make money then e bay is a really bad joke. It should be shut down. There just is no standards any more. And then people wonder why people go on mass shooting sprees. It is because people are evil. Most people are just no damm good. All anyone cares about is money and they do not care how many people are screwed over to get it.

I am done here. It really is nobodys fault here and I know I was warned and everyone has tried to help but lets just face it. The EV revolution is really nothing but a big joke. Electric motors work great and have for over 50 years but battery technology will never advance to the point where it will replace fossil fuel.

The oil companies will never allow it and will make sure the government suppreses any new technology from being developed. I bet 20 years from now the only people who will be driving electric cars and motorcycles are rich people just like today. E bay will also still be selling garbage and ripping people off because they make money doing it.

I still thank everyone for the advice and the help. Eventually though most of you will all realize just what a big waste of time the EV revolution is and most of you who post here probably own and drive a gas powered vehicle.

I am no exception as if I had the money for car insurence every month my 2005 Dodge caravan would be on the road. It only requires one 12V battery which I do not have to order on e bay but can buy less than a mile away at Wall- Mart with a two year guerentee however I don't need to as the last time it started the first time I tried it. Thanks everyone for your help and support.



LC out.

4/16/18

Not sure what USD 5 is but probably 1/2 the money. It looks like they are afraid of getting a bad review. Wether or not I continue to keep building e bikes or batteries really is not the point here anymore at least not at this time. If there is any hope whatsoever of the EV revolution to succeed in the future it depends on putting a stop to the dishonesty going on with e bay.

I really can't count how many folk I have talked to over the years who simply gave up and sold or threw out their electric scooter or e bike simply because it was too expensive to get new , good batteries. Not everyone can afford decent quality lithium. Most people order SLA which really is not going to last long in the real world. Most people are not as smart as DA and they kill those SLAs in a few months or less. Also with the danger of Lipo many people shy away from it as I did at first.

I have heard at least 50 times from average people that they would rather build a gas bike and when I ask them why it is always because of the batteries.

As long as people stay ignorant and lazy ; gas will continue to prevail. Also as long as these greezy ( A word I made up over 20 years ago which means both greedy , greasy and sleazy ) :lol: :lol: Chinese manufactures and sellers keep making money robbing from people the EV revolution will continue to fail miserably. Everyone here on ES needs to get involved and stop this insanity.

The last pic on the bottom is the first message I sent back to the seller today and I sent the second as I did not think the first went thru. This sort of action is what must be done each time someone is scammed so that a stop is put to this sort of thing.

I did not make up the term better bussiness bereau. I know that at least one time it did exist. It needs to re exist and put a stop to false advertizing and scamming. Also whoever built the SONA packs and the LG and genuine Samsung packs need to start building more and also 24 and 48V packs.

It is something I would be willing to do as you can tell from my posts. My kit may not be as small as the cheap plastic kit but it is not much larger and if true 2,500 or 3,000 mAh cells were to be used it should prove to be profitable. I would even be willing to wire up a BMS as it is not much more difficult than the balance plug. However it seems like every time I come up with a good idea to benifit ES I either get no reply or the idea is shot down.

I truelly believe that pessimism really holds back progress in any idea or person who recieves it. I grew up hardly wanting to see my mother and was not raised much by her. The reason was I got sick and tired of hearing what I can't do. Basically if you are always told what you can't do eventually most people will choose to do very little or nothing. It is the same as brainwashing. everyone needs to get a clue. Thanks and I hope mabye I have cleared some things up.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

It is very obvious to me why gas still rules the world. It is because only about 10% of the people in the world can afford good batteries for any EV. A gallon of gas is usually less than $4 a gallon and is much more difficult to scam someone on. Basically until better batteries are produced any vehicle electric powered is a complete waste of time unless you make about $1,000 a week.

I waited about 3 weeks and worked hard on this battery project for nothing. 18650 batteries are garbage period. So is SLA and so is LiPo. They are all garbage. I am thru wasting my time. Everything is for sale. I will keep the 700cc build but when the SONA packs go I am selling that also. Mabye I will build a gas powered bike someday.

I have no idea what happened to make you think that, but there is truth to what you are saying... To a limit. To move a car? Sure, it is heavy, short ranged, short lived (without some very careful management), and not many people can afford it, and it's not really ready yet, except as a toy or for prestige. There aren't many Nissan Leafs or Teslas around, and I don't think the Model 3 will change that.

Where we really need to be is Plugin Hybrid Electrics. I have gone from >4000 litres (about 1000 gallons) per year consumption, to about 120 litres (30 gallons) consumption of petrol per year - and the size of my car has gone up! (From Sedan to SUV).

However, for pedal assist bikes? No way. When a small rack mounted pack can get you 100km, last 3 years daily use with basic care, or longer with careful planning, for under a grand? It's ready for anyone to commute. Few people commute more than 50km one way for work, and those that do aren't likely to consider a bike anyway.

E bay sucks also and am about done with that too. If they let these crooks sell all these garbage batteries and lie their asses off just to make money then e bay is a really bad joke. It should be shut down. There just is no standards any more.

Fully behind you on that one. I'm really amused and pissed off at the same time. Stuff I've seen in the last few weeks include: 12000mah 18650s, A palm sized antenna that can amplify 35dBi (2dBi in reality. A 35dBi antenna should be a 2-3 wide satellite dish). A pencil torch using a single 18650 that can shine 28,000 lumens (About the brightness of a stadium flood lamp). Worse still, you get people leaving 5 star feedback saying "This torch is really bright!" because they have no idea what 28,000 lumens should look like.

You just can't trust any eBay sellers any more.

As long as people stay ignorant and lazy ; gas will continue to prevail. Also as long as these greezy ( A word I made up over 20 years ago which means both greedy , greasy and sleazy ) :lol: :lol: Chinese manufactures and sellers keep making money robbing from people the EV revolution will continue to fail miserably. Everyone here on ES needs to get involved and stop this insanity.

As long as people don't educate themselves on what they are buying, these Chinese manufacturers will keep lying, because it works.

Despite eBikes being around for so long, we are still in the niche/innovators phase in the western world. That means you need to build and assemble on your own. That means shonks. That means experimenting. One day we will be forced to go off gas, if for no other reason than it becomes more difficult and thus more expensive to extract it out of the ground. Peak oil and all that.

It won't happen overnight. What will happen is that the price of gas will creep up slowly, and small portions of the population will start deciding they can't afford a car any more, and start using bikes or other alternatives. Then more bike stores will start selling eBikes, and there will be more standardised equipment, and more to choose from. One day, building your own eBike might be seen as kooky as building your own kit car - something that an enthusiast might do, but only done out of interest, not for a daily driver.

You might be giving up, but the world is not. There are some really impressive batteries that are in the pipeline, and infrastructure is being built that will make electric cars more practical. Contactless chargers, battery swapping stations, batteries built into trailers for extended range, etc. It will come. The market just needs to mature and settle.

 

[wturber]

I agree that the lithium batteries are the most expensive component of a budget e-bike build. They represent a significant up-front expense. But that expense should pay dividends in the long run. I also agree that it is cheaper to get a gas motor assisted bike and run it. But personally, I wouldn't want to ride one - though I understand at least some of the appeal.

I think you could afford the battery pack you need if you approached things differently. I think you keep having problems because you generally don't heed the good advice or pay attention to the good information people on this forum give to you. I think that is the source of most of your difficulties. You seem inclined to take shortcuts and to experiment. And frankly, I think that's fine. Heck, I like experimenting too. But experimenting and taking chances has its costs. And you have to be prepared for the consequences and costs of not taking the more tried and true path. I think if you were more patient and would set money aside when you have it (rather than spend it on high risk items that aren't likely to work out) that you'd be able set money aside and eventually afford what you need - which appears to be something like a 10-12 amp hour 48 volt battery. But that takes time, patience, and a long term view. And I understand that waiting can be frustrating to say the least.