OpenEMoto

[Ianhill]

What i see is the loss of chain tension fighting the suspension from a cradled motor design being changed to the mass added to the swing arm, the motor can either be on the swing arm pivot making its levering effect in the swing arm least as possible or it can be positioned in a cradle to keep the weight centred and low as practically possible.

There is benefit like mentioned a less complicated chain setup less length and no real tensioner needed just wheel adjustment to pull chain to correct tension

Chain tension and cogging of the wheel acting on the suspension and wheel weights etc is a big deal to how fast you can comfortably control your bike downhill, professional downhill bikes use a blank last gear and extremely strong light wheels they select the last gear so there's no peddle effect on the drivetrain this allows the suspension to move more freely, same happens on a motor bike if the motor is a cradle design if the chain snaps the bikes suspension feels free if your lucky enough to coast home.

Point being the rear end is worth seconds on a downhill section where on a road bike not so much it depends how and where u ride if you need the extra or not.

 

[Overclocker]

w/ garage built frames the limiting factor is fabbing complexity as trazor has mentioned. it's easy to design in CAD but the difficult part is actually building the damn thing. so the design goal is "good enough" rather than "best" hence no suspension linkages and such. these frames are tough to build so don't be too critical :lol:

 

[Ianhill]

Ive used cad in work situations but I like to get the guts of my build put on the floor and measure out from that work it in my head till im happy, I will draw on graph paper to make a hub etc for my mate on cnc to be able to make the part but I do like to work through a plan and perfect it rather than jump straight in I do like to research a bit brainstorm ideas and go from there.

I wouldn't scoff at your builds I started out adding a motor to a kids razor e300 and used it off-road I'm by no means a perfectionist and the answer is more than good enough if it ain't broke don't fix it there's less complex design and more suited to a diy home build and still get good results.

I was damn lucky to get a kuberg freerider much cheaper than i could chuck summat together myself so ive learnt from thia frame its flaws and one day I will scratch build a bike like my scooters and I will base it off the kuberg challenger as all the flaws I've felt while riding have been ironed out on that and it does look a very compliant ride nd everything is where it needs to he unlike the freerider that has a long motor lead and battery lead these have been shortened to close as possible on the challenger just a much better located frame.

 

[trazor]

New video about constructing e-moto rear hub to mount sprocket and disc brake at each side:

[youtube]or2gk0R6RTw[/youtube]

 

[Ianhill]

Subbed, gonna have a good look at the hub in detail later I need a very simular piece and the extra bearing on the loaded side is just the trick top work hope i not stepped on toes with past comment.

 

[trazor]

Subbed, gonna have a good look at the hub in detail later I need a very simular piece and the extra bearing on the loaded side is just the trick top work hope i not stepped on toes with past comment.

Awesome. Just post here or youtube video if you need help. :thumb:

 

[Ianhill]

I'm gonna have a look at the design and see what I can do I like what u have done with two bearings on one side shame it's the disc side but I can understand why you done it like that there's not enough meat on the hub where it's been drilled so could do with some sort of sandwich plate maybe made from a circle of alloy cut in half that catches the thread from behind the spokes then the flange holes u made would not be threads but just slightly larger through holes.

I find I'm getting barely 100 miles out of my hub and the rear wheel is crunchie the balls are smashed to bits, I've come across double row angled bearings that are double the width and much stronger to side loading so I may use these in some way and see if I can make an adapter like yourself or even get a hub made from scratch and drill the spoke holes on a flange so i can use a bearing that can take the loading that's going on, what ever i do I'll drop it by here.

 

[trazor]

I'm gonna have a look at the design and see what I can do I like what u have done with two bearings on one side shame it's the disc side but I can understand why you done it like that there's not enough meat on the hub where it's been drilled so could do with some sort of sandwich plate maybe made from a circle of alloy cut in half that catches the thread from behind the spokes then the flange holes u made would not be threads but just slightly larger through holes.

Exactly, not enough meat at that side of the hub. Your idea is interesting, but will require machining other piece at a very specific angle (because the inside flange is not perpendicular to the axis). For now, I've two hubs like these and they are enduring. Thre new threads are for the disc side, so not much hammering there. If this were the drive side, the bolts on the threaded side will snap for sure.

If much more machining is required, buying an and OSET or LMX hub probably is better option. I'm on the cheap side here in South America so I need to use what we have here.

 

[Ianhill]

The hub I got is like a oset hub but with a 20mm thru axle and a custom sprocket bolt pattern 7 stud rather than 6 the dirty buggers, I'm gonna leave it in my brain for five I find overtime i either find better options or ideas present themselfs.

I see your from the south side it's a little like that here in Wales we got left behind so I see what your doing is all the more impressive well done keep it up inspire many.

 

[Grantmac]

Did you convert from 9mm QR to 12mm thru axle?

I have something similar in mind for my LH dual drive but getting a TA hub has been a pain.

 

[trazor]

Did you convert from 9mm QR to 12mm thru axle?

I have something similar in mind for my LH dual drive but getting a TA hub has been a pain.

Not quite any standard I think. I stuffed the hub with 30x10x9 cartridge bearings and used this 12.9 grade bolt as the axle: https://www.mcmaster.com/91290a562
As I fabricate my dropouts I can choose any axle size. Maybe using 30x12x9 works for you https://www.amazon.com/6200-2RS-12-Bearing-12x30x9mm-Cutting-Machine/dp/B07QGMT5W6

Good luck!

 

[Ianhill]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97557&start=25#p1442954

I'm thinking something similar to this with flanges either side then make a steel template to drill the spoke holes at an angle, I'm thinking around the £100 Mark complete not a cheap item but hopefully a one time job.

 

[trazor]

New video "Casting tube caps with Oogoo and 3d printed molds"
[youtube]_cNsytzGIJM[/youtube]

 

[shortcircuit911]

Hey trazor I just wanted to say what's up and thanks for posting all this info. I have read it over and over trying to get all the details I can. My bike had a hub and broke, now I'm in the process of converting it to chain drive with a big block. How is your bike holding up? Still kicking ass? Hope all is well, thanks again for the info.

-Mike

 

[trazor]

Hey trazor I just wanted to say what's up and thanks for posting all this info. I have read it over and over trying to get all the details I can. My bike had a hub and broke, now I'm in the process of converting it to chain drive with a big block. How is your bike holding up? Still kicking ass? Hope all is well, thanks again for the info.

-Mike

Hey! thanks!

I've two e-motos now. One with the Big Block and other with Denzel 4500. The big block is still kicking altough it is time to replace the front bearing.

Big block:
- lightest, less copper, faster overheat

Denzel D4500
- heavier, more copper, more time to overheat

Since my riding style matured I prefer the D4500 and I'm thinking in bigger motor now. The problem with Denzel is that they are a bit shady. My last two purchases only shipped after I started a paypal dispute, received wrong items (eg Kelly KBS instead of the ordered KLS). I don't know what happened, they were great some time ago.

 

[Grantmac]

You might look at the QS motors, probably the "2kw". They are working well for light motorcycles.

 

[Overclocker]

hi trazor i think i need a bigger motor now. easily hits 100C when bogged down. cruising at around 75c.

what do you think of the HPM3000B. it's narrow enough to retrofit into my frame & swingarm

 

[shortcircuit911]

@trazor, thanks a lot for that info, it was super helpful. I was worried the BB might get hot quick with my 200A(battery) 375
a (phase) Mobipus controller.

@Grantmac, thanks for your comment as well, really got me thinking. Honestly I was going to go with the BB but based off of both your comments I'm considering the qs 2kw and heavily modifying my swingarm to look like the cyclone coaxial motor kits. That motor puts out crazy torque and the max suggested amps are well under what my BMS and controller will put out continuously.

Thank you one more time for the great info and inspiration. After my eeb is done I want to make my own frame and swingarm for my next build which will be something like the Emoto/eeb/cr125.

 

[trazor]

hi trazor i think i need a bigger motor now. easily hits 100C when bogged down. cruising at around 75c.

what do you think of the HPM3000B. it's narrow enough to retrofit into my frame & swingarm

Ce-Approved-3kw-Brushless-Electrical-BLDC-Motor-for-Electric-Car-Electric-Motorcycle-Electric-Boat-Electric-Go-Carts.jpg

Yeah I've the same problem, bigger motors are too wide. Will require more "pancake" motors if want to keep the frame. I can build a new frame, you know the effort it takes, months or even years.
I don't remember on which topic, somebody said the HPM3000B is not very good taken heat out. If you doo your own research please post about findings.

I've a Denzel D7500 right in my desk now. It is a strange motor, the hall sensors don't pick up the rotor magnets directly, the shaft has a bell with other magnets for this purpose. The hall sensors plate isn't fixed and can be rotated to advance/back the timings. All this stuff uses some space so the motor is too wide and does not have so much copper as expected. So, maybe the QS 138 or 120 are better options to explore.

 

[trazor]

Got new video. Some repairs after countless hours of e-bashing.
[youtube]JrTqeuV1ppE[/youtube]

 

[Ianhill]

What you use for a charging connector ?
I got 500w charger on a xlr connector, dirt must of aged the connector and thing nearly melted to a short luckily I caught it, I'll be swapping to Anderson's powerpole soon as they arrive till then I'm off the road.

I'll have a look at the vid tonight with some popcorn live a browse inside a motor keep us posted top effort like your the approach to your work.

 

[trazor]

What you use for a charging connector ?
I got 500w charger on a xlr connector, dirt must of aged the connector and thing nearly melted to a short luckily I caught it, I'll be swapping to Anderson's powerpole soon as they arrive till then I'm off the road.

I'll have a look at the vid tonight with some popcorn live a browse inside a motor keep us posted top effort like your the approach to your work.

Thanks pal.
On my dirt bikes I use XT90 for all connections as they support 90 amps continuous. They are not easy to plug/unplug so it is not the best for a vehicle you charge every day. For light bikes I've used RCA or barrel plugs. These do not support more than few amps.

I use XT90S anti spark connectors too. These don't totally prevent a spark at 72v but make it much less scary.
Soon I will make a video of my charger setup based in a stick welder and off the shelf DC-DC board. I charge at around 1300W with this setup.

 

[Ianhill]

Sounds a good set up you got quick charge times, I've always used xt90 or above but this kuberg came stock so I never really thought about damn there's 500w down a barrel connector by there, manufacturing mess up and there loads of them about waiting to while on charge.