Programming the Bafang Middrive BBS01+BBS02

[tomjasz]

I have seen people reporting the BBs02 peddles are so far out that they have knee problems ?

Hence how wide is the BBs02 bottom bracket ? and are the cranks straight or offset out ?

Hence are the peddles sitting further out then other mid drive kits ? like the GNG or AFT ?

BBS0x are fit to 68MM and will for 73mm BB. This is a standard size across many bikes. I have not seen this report and actually find it almost laughable. I'm a disabled guy who has two bikes using this motor. NO problem. I'd love to be linked to wherever this silly report was made?
Disclosure My PEDALS are perfect. But I PEDDLE (sell) BBS02 units and am prejudiced.

 

[speedmd]

It is wide compared to my narrow campy road setup, but not much different than most of the mountain bike setups I use. Certainly can cause some adaptation issues, but real knee issues would IMO be very rare with the bbs system.

 

[opperpanter]

Hi all,

I don't have a programming cable yet (parts ordered), but I already have a couple of questions.
I have a 750W BBS02 from em3ev on a Specialized MTB with 26"tires.
Front cog = 44T, cassette = 11-30T.
Display=C965A (5 button type), speed limit set to 60kph.
Battery = 14s9P Samsung 29E (em3ev)

1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.

2) Throttle sensitivity
I have the thumb throttle wired up. It works good. Too good maybe in my opinion.
It's very sensitive. If I move the throttle just a couple of mm, the motor will go almost full gas.
I think at 5mm, the throttle already goes over 999W (max of the display).
Is there something I could do about this?
Maybe the start current for the throttle page could be lowered (don't know yet what mine is set to, waiting for cable parts)?
Or I could set the designated assist level to a lower setting. That would mean that I never have full power available via throttle?
Or if all that fails, I could put a pot meter in series with the throttle to dampen the throttle effect?
Or I could just limit the max power (amps) of the motor all together, but then I will never have full power when I need it (climbing).

3) The display seems to go only till 999W, even when I give more throttle and feel more power, the display remains at 999W. I guess that's just a limitation of the display?
Would be nice to see the exact wattage above 999W as well...

Thanks for helping out,

Opper.

 

[ziltoid81]

Hi all,


1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.


Opper.

I use the bbs01 350w, with 46x11 i reach 36 kph on flat ground with no pedaling and conti race kings.
Your tires are important.
In winter i used my schwalbe Big Bettys and theyre like glue, no chance to hit 36 without pedaling.
Now my conti race kings are back on, with good hard pressure and the bike feels and goes much faster compared with the wintersetup.

With some sort of downhill or freeride tires, 40kph sounds not so unrealistic for 14s, maybe you also need one or two teeth more to get a little bit faster.

 

[opperpanter]

Hi all,


1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.


Opper.

I use the bbs01 350w, with 46x11 i reach 36 kph on flat ground with no pedaling and conti race kings.
Your tires are important.
In winter i used my schwalbe Big Bettys and theyre like glue, no chance to hit 36 without pedaling.
Now my conti race kings are back on, with good hard pressure and the bike feels and goes much faster compared with the wintersetup.

With some sort of downhill or freeride tires, 40kph sounds not so unrealistic for 14s, maybe you also need one or two teeth more to get a little bit faster.

I have big knobbed tires. But even though these might be a bit like glue, the top speed should be a straight calculation based on wheel size, rpm and gear ratio? The glue part just means the motor has to work harder to get there?
At full throttle it pulls about 1300Wats, should be enough to go above 40kph?

 

[Gab]

BBS0x are fit to 68MM and will for 73mm BB. This is a standard size across many bike

I dont mean the BB width i mean the spindle width and distance between the peddles. Has anyone actually measure how wide the Bottom bracket is ? And are the cranks strait or dished ?

Then i was wondering how it compared to the other mid drive GNG/AFT that use 148mm BB

 

[DaDo.Bzz]

Hi all,

I don't have a programming cable yet (parts ordered), but I already have a couple of questions.
I have a 750W BBS02 from em3ev on a Specialized MTB with 26"tires.
Front cog = 44T, cassette = 11-30T.
Display=C965A (5 button type), speed limit set to 60kph.
Battery = 14s9P Samsung 29E (em3ev)

1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.

.

Hello. I have modelled acceleration and max speed. 40 kph is ok with big tyres. You can have 57kph on highest gear, but motor does not have enough power on this rpm. You can see output power from motor (mechanical rotation power on wheel) in graph, also drag power, which rise exponentially. Difference (green curve) Pout-Pdrag, this is power which give you acceleration. And acceleration time for gear ~46:12.

 

[DaDo.Bzz]

Hi all,


1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.


Opper.

I use the bbs01 350w, with 46x11 i reach 36 kph on flat ground with no pedaling and conti race kings.
Your tires are important.
In winter i used my schwalbe Big Bettys and theyre like glue, no chance to hit 36 without pedaling.
Now my conti race kings are back on, with good hard pressure and the bike feels and goes much faster compared with the wintersetup.

With some sort of downhill or freeride tires, 40kph sounds not so unrealistic for 14s, maybe you also need one or two teeth more to get a little bit faster.

I have big knobbed tires. But even though these might be a bit like glue, the top speed should be a straight calculation based on wheel size, rpm and gear ratio? The glue part just means the motor has to work harder to get there?
At full throttle it pulls about 1300Wats, should be enough to go above 40kph?

If you wanna go faster, change to low drag tyres and go into aerodynamical position. ))

 

[opperpanter]

Hi all,

I don't have a programming cable yet (parts ordered), but I already have a couple of questions.
I have a 750W BBS02 from em3ev on a Specialized MTB with 26"tires.
Front cog = 44T, cassette = 11-30T.
Display=C965A (5 button type), speed limit set to 60kph.
Battery = 14s9P Samsung 29E (em3ev)

1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.

.

Hello. I have modelled acceleration and max speed. 40 kph is ok with big tyres. You can have 57kph on highest gear, but motor does not have enough power on this rpm. You can see output power from motor (mechanical rotation power on wheel) in graph, also drag power, which rise exponentially. Difference (green curve) Pout-Pdrag, this is power which give you acceleration. And acceleration time for gear ~46:12.

Hmmm OK, starts to make sense... With this single front cog it really is a trade off between speed and climbing ability.

 

[bgt]

Hi all,I don't have a programming cable yet (parts ordered), but I already have a couple of questions. I have a 750W BBS02 from em3ev on a Specialized MTB with 26"tires.Front cog = 44T, cassette = 11-30T. Display=C965A (5 button type), speed limit set to 60kph. Battery = 14s9P Samsung 29E (em3ev)1) Low top speed When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph. This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed. Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM. Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet). Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out. .

Hello. I have modelled acceleration and max speed. 40 kph is ok with big tyres. You can have 57kph on highest gear, but motor does not have enough power on this rpm. You can see output power from motor (mechanical rotation power on wheel) in graph, also drag power, which rise exponentially. Difference (green curve) Pout-Pdrag, this is power which give you acceleration. And acceleration time for gear ~46:12.

Do you have a graphical display for the 250W version for me, if not where to find it?
I use a Nexus 8 gear with 36T front toothwheel &13T rear.
Thanx,
Bert

 

[DaDo.Bzz]

I recalculate power from this measuring

http://www.motorino.ca/36V-350W-8Fun-Curve.pdf

 

[bgt]

I recalculate power from this measuring http://www.motorino.ca/36V-350W-8Fun-Curve.pdf

Thanx, very nice.

 

[opperpanter]

2) Throttle sensitivity
I have the thumb throttle wired up. It works good. Too good maybe in my opinion.
It's very sensitive. If I move the throttle just a couple of mm, the motor will go almost full gas.
I think at 5mm, the throttle already goes over 999W (max of the display).
Is there something I could do about this?
Maybe the start current for the throttle page could be lowered (don't know yet what mine is set to, waiting for cable parts)?
Or I could set the designated assist level to a lower setting. That would mean that I never have full power available via throttle?
Or if all that fails, I could put a pot meter in series with the throttle to dampen the throttle effect?
Or I could just limit the max power (amps) of the motor all together, but then I will never have full power when I need it (climbing).

Nobody any feedback on this?

I am kinda hoping my unit has the start current for the throttle set to 100%, so I can lower it to make it less eager/sensitive.

What about the Start Voltage and End Voltage meanings?
Does the start voltage mean at what voltage the throttle will start propelling the motor?
Does the end voltage mean at what voltage the throttle will reach 100% power (of the selected assist level)?
That would mean I could increase the start voltage to maybe create a little "dead zone" in the throttle?
And by raising the End Voltage I could create a lower sensitivty because of the larger range the throttle can cover?
Default values seem to be 11 -> 39.

 

[Kepler]

The fix is simple and has been documented a number of times throughout this thread.

Simply change speed mode to current mode. Throttle will have a nice smooth linear feel to it then.

 

[opperpanter]

The fix is simple and has been documented a number of times throughout this thread.

Simply change speed mode to current mode. Throttle will have a nice smooth linear feel to it then.

Thanks, didn't see it in the thread.
Spent about a day reading all 31 pages.

EDIT: OK, I don't know what I have been reading, but there are indeed some reference throughout the topic.
I think I must have also hit my head when crashing the bike 2 days ago. Anyway for future reference:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58780&p=968885&hilit=current+mode#p968885

 

[Kepler]

No worries. Info does get buried in these long threads and can be hard to find. Let us know how the throttle feels to you with it set to current mode.

 

[opperpanter]

No worries. Info does get buried in these long threads and can be hard to find. Let us know how the throttle feels to you with it set to current mode.

I will. I have no cable yet. I just hope cell_man didn't already set it to throttle mode...

 

[opperpanter]

Hi all,

I don't have a programming cable yet (parts ordered), but I already have a couple of questions.
I have a 750W BBS02 from em3ev on a Specialized MTB with 26"tires.
Front cog = 44T, cassette = 11-30T.
Display=C965A (5 button type), speed limit set to 60kph.
Battery = 14s9P Samsung 29E (em3ev)

1) Low top speed
When going full throttle in 44x11, I only get about 40kph.
This seems a bit low to me. I was expecting max 115RPM, so about 57kph top speed.
Is the max RPM lower? 40kph is about 80RPM.
Is the adjustable with the settings mentioned above (I am not sure I understand all settings just yet).
Unloaded it will go up the 60kph limit before it cuts out.

.

Hello. I have modelled acceleration and max speed. 40 kph is ok with big tyres. You can have 57kph on highest gear, but motor does not have enough power on this rpm. You can see output power from motor (mechanical rotation power on wheel) in graph, also drag power, which rise exponentially. Difference (green curve) Pout-Pdrag, this is power which give you acceleration. And acceleration time for gear ~46:12.

On second thought: That data is for the 36V version, which is ~80rpm.
Mine is 48V and ~115rpm.
I still can't believe 1500W only gives me 40km/h.

 

[datman]

Hi, I recently installed a BBS02 unit on my back. I want to change the settings, but I am not having any success connecting to the BBS02 Unit (yes I have tried every which way to get the serial to connect, but i just says cant connect). It has the 3 button 965 display. I have read some comments about maybe new firmware not working with old software.
Any thoughts on firmware and software versions??

 

[tomjasz]

Are you connecting to the 965 or to the motor?
Windows version?

I went through the same thing. What are you getting and what are you using for instructions? I had to reverse wiring. More info and maybe we can help sort you out.

 

[datman]

Are you connecting to the 965 or to the motor?
Windows version?

I went through the same thing. What are you getting and what are you using for instructions? I had to reverse wiring. More info and maybe we can help sort you out.

I am using win7. I am connecting to the controller, not the display.

OK found problem, it doesn't seem to like Win 7. Works fine on XP

Thanks, you tweaked some memory about old OS software

Cheers

 

[datman]

Are you connecting to the 965 or to the motor?
Windows version?

I went through the same thing. What are you getting and what are you using for instructions? I had to reverse wiring. More info and maybe we can help sort you out.

I am using win7. I am connecting to the controller, not the display.

OK found problem, it doesn't seem to like Win 7. Works fine on XP

Thanks, you tweaked some memory about old OS software

Cheers

Also I had to reverse the TX and RX, as documentation doesn't make clear which way is up for the USB to serial I bought.

 

[tomjasz]

Ha, I went in circles trying to find W7 on a budget and in the end XP running Virtual on my Mac works slick.
I think there may be news on someone doing some reverse engineering of the code and a controller solution this year. He's pushing it. Fingers crossed. iOS and Android integration. But I'm learning to accept uber slow progress on anything that I get excited about...

 

[datman]

Makes me wonder why it works with Win7 for others and not me? Maybe its my PC?

Anyhow, I am happy it is all setup, so hopefully I will ride it to work this week. I am hoping it wont take too much longer with no traffic but will be quicker with traffic. Then I will rearrange my work hours if it all works out well!

 

[tahustvedt]

Hello. I have modelled acceleration and max speed. 40 kph is ok with big tyres. You can have 57kph on highest gear, but motor does not have enough power on this rpm. You can see output power from motor (mechanical rotation power on wheel) in graph, also drag power, which rise exponentially. Difference (green curve) Pout-Pdrag, this is power which give you acceleration. And acceleration time for gear ~46:12.

On second thought: That data is for the 36V version, which is ~80rpm.
Mine is 48V and ~115rpm.
I still can't believe 1500W only gives me 40km/h.[/quote]

115 rpm is the unloaded speed. You will never reach that rpm under load. The more the motor is loaded, the lower the rpm will be at max throttle, and the higher the current and torque output will be... until the max current is reached, upon which the torque will be limited. If you are unable to achieve more than 40 km/h with a 1500 W potential motor then you are limited by the geear ratio. My 250 W BBS01 will take me to exactly 40 km/h with full throttle on level ground with my cyclocross if I tuck.