Project build thread. Diamond back overdrive EV

[wesnewell]

You can get this kit at your door in a few days. Might blow the 63V caps in controller on 16s though. Fets should be ok though. I think they're rated for either 68V or 75V.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Hub-/291040998674

 

[friendly1uk]

Electrical safety is all about minimising risk. Buy a bms and charger. Don't buy a heap of RC charging gear, it costs more, it's more hassle and it is how almost all the fires start. Bit of a no brainer really.

 

[dogman dan]

If a 16c lico bms is available, then a bms and bulk charger with matching voltage would be the easiest way to charge and balance. And, you'd get individual cell lvc.

I was just trying to point out that 14s matches existing shit like 48v controllers and chargers. But buying a few 2s packs is clearly WAY too much hassle.

If you will go to more than 14s, then the next logical step is 18s IMO. Then a stock 72v controller fits fine. 16s is just awkward for controllers, unless you get one designed for 36-72v.

For what you will want to do, maybe you just want this. http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/C7240-NC.jpg

 

[rborger73]

Ok liking what I'm hearing so far. I'm trying to get my cart full here in HK so I can place this order. I'm thinking I'm going to go with this tonight.

10 x Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C hardcase pack
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18631__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack_USA_Warehouse_.html


This charger seems to do the job. It is cheap and if I burn it up I'm out 20ish bucks.
1 x IMAX B6 Charger/Discharger 1-6 Cells (GENUINE)
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__36905__IMAX_B6_Charger_Discharger_1_6_Cells_GENUINE_USA_Warehouse_.html


To throw in my backpack.
1 x Hobby King Battery Medic System 6S
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__41170__Hobby_King_Battery_Medic_System_6S_USA_warehouse_.html

I don't see any problems with using this for the time being. I can always beef up everything later as cheap as this stuff is if it turns into toast I won't cry a lot.
Hobbyking 105W 15V/7A Switching DC Power Supply
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__36904__Hobbyking_105W_15V_7A_Switching_DC_Power_Supply_USA_Warehouse_.html

Anything I'm crazy on here? This will allow me to get my current bike ready by the time it is warm enough to take a spin. I can always put 12s together to make sure I don't kill the current cheapo controller. Which I'd be able to do 15 Ah I'd suppose as well.

Total on all that shipped 349.26

Shipping is close to 50.00 blech. But don't trust any of the other options and I'm in PA and it is coming from WA so I'd rather pay an extra 20.00 then have it be 3 weeks from now or something. lol

(Usps 2 to 3 day priority mail) Would prefer UPS but it is some

 

[Ykick]

Are you sure ALL your HK items are coming from the USA warehouse? That can cause some trouble/delays and increased shipping costs if some items are coming from different countries? In fact, I suggest keeping battery orders separate from anything else.

IIRC, my shipping was only around $24 and it was UPS? Nothing expedited but it all arrived to NYC in less than a week once it left WA.

Battery Medics kinda suck. I think a CellLog 8S/M is a much better device to keep in your ride kit. The 8S has a cool logging feature that I geek-out with all the time but even the 8M is very handy for quick checks on cells. TBH I usually buy that kind of stuff from EPBuddy or now called BuddyRC in Ohio?

Eventually, you will figure out it's much easier and faster to simply charge low cells through balance connectors if/when your pack needs balancing. All it takes is an adapter pigtail wire with pins to tap into the desired cell and top charge using 1S setting.

 

[rborger73]

Are you sure ALL your HK items are coming from the USA warehouse? That can cause some trouble/delays and increased shipping costs if some items are coming from different countries? In fact, I suggest keeping battery orders separate from anything else.

IIRC, my shipping was only around $24 and it was UPS? Nothing expedited but it all arrived to NYC in less than a week once it left WA.

Battery Medics kinda suck. I think a CellLog 8S/M is a much better device to keep in your ride kit. The 8S has a cool logging feature that I geek-out with all the time but even the 8M is very handy for quick checks on cells. TBH I usually buy that kind of stuff from EPBuddy or now called BuddyRC in Ohio?

Eventually, you will figure out it's much easier and faster to simply charge low cells through balance connectors if/when your pack needs balancing. All it takes is an adapter pigtail wire with pins to tap into the desired cell and top charge using 1S setting.

Ya all same warehouse USA think it is the weight of the 10 batteries. Its 20 something for 5 day and for ups what they call... small package value, but it doesn't say shipping time. As cheap as that battery medic is I figured screw it just to have handy. I have a balance charger listed above. I just wanted the medic to drag along when I do road tests for now. I'll be running a CA on the bike and fairly sure I'll be going with a bms setup as well. I figured for testing purposes this should get me going cheap. -9 today so bike time is a fair ways off I suppose. lol Im in NW PA so I'll look into BuddyRC since they are close and might be able to get next day on small stuff when I need it.

 

[rborger73]

Think I'll make a sheetmetal charging box as well. Will be good to have to store the lipo in for the trip driving to Colo 20 hours anyways. lol I'll make a box within a box and leave a 3/4" space between the two boxes and line it with the same stuff they use for drop ceilings. Just a thought since I'll only have the sheetmetal shop to use for a few more months hehe.

 

[rborger73]

You can get this kit at your door in a few days. Might blow the 63V caps in controller on 16s though. Fets should be ok though. I think they're rated for either 68V or 75V.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Hub-/291040998674

Who makes that motor is the question. lol Had an issue with paypal few years ago so I try not to get too much of ebay. I'd have to use a family members paypal since my card doesn't work with paypal for some reason. It is a national bank chain yet still no worky with paypal. lol If I did get that kit or a kit similar I will probably swap the controller and throttle to my old bike and buy a heftier controller and throttle setup for the new bike.

If anyone sees something else I should add to that order or something instead of what I have let me know soon. Prob going to order tomorrow by noon est. Then I might be lucky to have it next weds. hehe.

 

[wesnewell]

I don't know who makes the new motor, but the specs are the same as the older one I got, so I'm assuming the same company. I've got ~10K miles on mine without a problem. Ran it on 18s for close to a year and have been running it on 24s lipo for the last 18 months. It's a solid motor, but had to use another controller when I went to 18s. Here's some info on the original motors I bought.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49638
And this is info on the controller I'm using.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29469

 

[dogman dan]

B6 is fine for balancing only. 50w so charging an 840wh pack including balancing only takes about 20 hours.

But it will get you going, while you think some more about what voltage you will run, and how to best charge that particular size pack. Same with the PS, it won't do more than run a second B6, but it will be good enough for now.

If you decide to run 16s, you might look at the cheaper versions of 8s chargers. I have two 150w ones, that I used for years when I was running 20s. Still use one of them to charge my 6s mower pack.

There is simply too many options for charging RC batteries to choose one right away. So the B6 was not that bad an idea, for the first few months.

 

[rborger73]

I don't know who makes the new motor, but the specs are the same as the older one I got, so I'm assuming the same company. I've got ~10K miles on mine without a problem. Ran it on 18s for close to a year and have been running it on 24s lipo for the last 18 months. It's a solid motor, but had to use another controller when I went to 18s. Here's some info on the original motors I bought.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49638
And this is info on the controller I'm using.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29469

I'll look it over.

Of the more popular brands is there one that ships better faster? I do hate to mention Golden Pie here as they don't seem super popular. I know we have Macs, have crystalyte, golden pie. Which of the non ebay motor sellers are pretty easy as far as ordering and fairly fast on shipping? I think waiting on stuff to ship is going to be my biggest issue for having the new bike at least rolling under its own power before I move to Colorado.

 

[Ykick]

I'll throw Conhismotor, 9C into the motor brand discussion. They're all very similar if not the same.

You should determine if geared or DD (direct drive)? Higher voltages seem to be a concern for geared hub motors - I don't use 'em so somebody else should give advice there but DD's handle higher voltages nicely. Some DD's will have heavier windings and wires so best stick to 1000W rated stuff when possible?

Perhaps an item wanted post/thread in the marketplace section? Somebody might have something ready to ship?

 

[rborger73]

B6 is fine for balancing only. 50w so charging an 840wh pack including balancing only takes about 20 hours.

But it will get you going, while you think some more about what voltage you will run, and how to best charge that particular size pack. Same with the PS, it won't do more than run a second B6, but it will be good enough for now.

If you decide to run 16s, you might look at the cheaper versions of 8s chargers. I have two 150w ones, that I used for years when I was running 20s. Still use one of them to charge my 6s mower pack.

There is simply too many options for charging RC batteries to choose one right away. So the B6 was not that bad an idea, for the first few months.

Ok sounds good there then. I think I will probably put the packs together for now into a 12s 15 Ah pack for the current bike. Gonna order the batteries and what not now. I may go ahead and get 12 of the Turnigy 5000mah. I could get 20 Ah of 12s going for pretty darn cheap. I had 4 SLA batteries on the rear carrier most of the summer and it was fine so I'm sure 20 Ah of Lipo shouldn't be a problem. lol

Anyone do the quick math on range I'd get with 20 Ah of 12s on a Q100 with medium pedaling? I know around here I'll get less miles due to the hills, so think Denver area which is pretty flat.

 

[rborger73]

I'll throw Conhismotor, 9C into the motor brand discussion. They're all very similar if not the same.

You should determine if geared or DD (direct drive)? Higher voltages seem to be a concern for geared hub motors - I don't use 'em so somebody else should give advice there but DD's handle higher voltages nicely. Some DD's will have heavier windings and wires so best stick to 1000W rated stuff when possible?

Perhaps an item wanted post/thread in the marketplace section? Somebody might have something ready to ship?

Ya have the geared q100 on the current bike. More parts means more likely to break to me so going DD on this one. I'll give the conhismotor a look. I know the q100 is 24/36v and I think 250w or 350w depending. Of course I was running north of 70v through it without it being overly warm. Have a infrared thermometer and kept checking it and the controller and both stayed pretty cool even in 90+ temps riding this summer. I have 2 of the q100's for the front wheel so I may take a crack at oil cooling one of them since I have drill presses and all that fun stuff here and it is a cheap motor I can beat and not cry if I kill it. lol

But for new bike ya DD.

 

[wesnewell]

There are many places in the US you can buy kits. Some have good prices and some have really high prices. The ebay kits I recommend can be bought straight from the yescomusa website, but you'll pay more doing it that way. And I don't know if they've upgraded their site with the newer kits yet. Doesn't look like it. Call them.
http://www.yescomusa.com/Electric_Bicycle_Engine/

 

[rborger73]

There are many places in the US you can buy kits. Some have good prices and some have really high prices. The ebay kits I recommend can be bought straight from the yescomusa website, but you'll pay more doing it that way. And I don't know if they've upgraded their site with the newer kits yet. Doesn't look like it. Call them.
http://www.yescomusa.com/Electric_Bicycle_Engine/

Ya looks like most all of the stock on their site is out of stock.

 

[Ykick]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56239

 

[rborger73]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56239

Appreciate that. Sent him a PM. Does that look like a good fit for what I'm looking for guys? I just ordered the batteries and whatnot few mins ago. Not sure why that is such a nerve racking purchase with the batteries but it is.. lol I've got a fair budget but everything I buy I get nervous about it for this. lol

I went with 12 of the turnigy 5000 mah.

Your order details are:
12x #T50004S-20HC/18631 Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C hardcase pack (USA Warehouse) = $283.80
1x #IMAXB6/36905 IMAX B6 Charger/Discharger 1-6 Cells (GENUINE) (USA Warehouse) = $26.15
1x #9052000023/36904 Hobbyking 105W 15V/7A Switching DC Power Supply (USA Warehouse) = $14.34
1x #HKB-Medic/41170 Hobby King Battery Medic System 6S (USA warehouse) = $13.20

VISA / MASTERCARD (No Paypal) + $11.55
USPS Priority Mail 2-3Day US-PM $56.89
Discount code: 642NK100 $0.00
Taxes: $0.00
-------------------
Total: $405.93

 

[Ykick]

Just consider it "tuition" to soothe the nerves.

If that motor is the common 9x7 or 2807 wind - then it's easy 30MPH bursts running 16S (59-66V) RC Lipo in a 26" wheel. I have no problem climbing bridge approaches and fairly steep hills with this wind.

I use a programmable Lyen 9FET controller good up to 72V. It delivers 35A or so without much protest, integrates CAV3 - there are other vendors for controllers too.

Anyway, a loose motor is actually a great opportunity IMO to build a good, strong, wide wheel using butted spokes. Maybe an Alex DM24 or my favorite Mammoth Fat rim?

You're still gonna need a bulk charging rig, throttle, good bike with great brakes, tires, mirrors, lights, etc.

Your problem using the ES marketplace is gonna be the PayPal thing, I suspect? You have eBay problems too? Dunno what to tell you there. Good luck.

 

[rborger73]

Just consider it "tuition" to soothe the nerves.

If that motor is the common 9x7 or 2807 wind - then it's easy 30MPH bursts running 16S (59-66V) RC Lipo in a 26" wheel. I have no problem climbing bridge approaches and fairly steep hills with this wind.

I use a programmable Lyen 9FET controller good up to 72V. It delivers 35A or so without much protest, integrates CAV3 - there are other vendors for controllers too.

Anyway, a loose motor is actually a great opportunity IMO to build a good, strong, wide wheel using butted spokes. Maybe an Alex DM24 or my favorite Mammoth Fat rim?

You're still gonna need a bulk charging rig, throttle, good bike with great brakes, tires, mirrors, lights, etc.

Your problem using the ES marketplace is gonna be the PayPal thing, I suspect? You have eBay problems too? Dunno what to tell you there. Good luck.

I figure there are other options. Seems to be a trusted member so western union or wire may work too. Ya 30ish sounds good for bursts for most of the time. If I get that motor I'll start picking out the other pieces soon hehe.

 

[wesnewell]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56239

Those are listed as 1000W motors when they're really only 500W rated motors according to em3's own website. Something smells here.

 

[rborger73]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56239

Those are listed as 1000W motors when they're really only 500W rated motors according to em3's own website. Something smells here.

Think the motor is going to work out well. Should be sending the money to him tomorrow. Moving right along. Now if I get lucky by first week of March I might have a bike ready. lol

 

[Ykick]

I've bought a couple of these over the years:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16998&hilit=+lyen

Not cheap but programmable and good for a commuter bike. Lyen always provides me with fast, excellent service(s). His thumb throttles are my favorite too.

For spokes you might wanna look into JRH for 13/14ga butted Stainless Sapim?
http://holmeshobbies.com/
If you build with a Mammoth Fat rim I use 169mm length spokes for 9C clone motor.

You also may need to "find" the phase/hall combination for this motor and whatever controller you decide to use? It's not that hard but some folks try to ride with WOT before they figure out the proper combination and can blow-up their controller.

Lyen's controllers are fairly well protected from internal shorts and over-current conditions but you will still probably need a little guidance finding phase/hall combos. There's been plenty of discussions - best saved for when you have the components in front of you and ready to test.

One thing that made my life much easier is to stock-up on various connectors, wire and any required crimpers. For the power levels I deal with I use mostly 12ga wire.

For power connections I use a combination of APP (Anderson Power Poles) and/or 4mm Bullets. The APP's require a $40-50 crimper tool to assemble correctly. Some folks balk, others buy-in and enjoy the APP's for what they do. The Bullets are simply soldered but you need to use a fat tip soldering iron to make a good assembly.

Signal (throttle, hall sensor) wiring's something you might not need to deal with in the beginning but will eventually. I'm probably a lone fan of Futaba servo connectors for motor Hall sensor and throttle connections. They're only 3 conductor so you need 2qty for motor Halls but they fit through axle hardware and handle small gauge wire nicely.

When selecting your frame, in addition to suitable brakes and battery location(s), don't forget the ability to use wide tires. 26" I like CST Cyclops which come in about 2.4" wide. Some frames can't handle that width so be careful with your frame selection.

Remember this, an eBike will be much heavier and FASTER than it's unpowered configuration. Hitting potholes and rough roads with 60-100lbs bike weight at 30 MPH is far more potentially damaging than a naked bike weighing 30lbs@15MPH.

One last thing - road traffic safety. Unless you come from a MSF motorcycle background, dig into motorcycle safety (MSF) websites and learn how to deal with various traffic situations.

eBikes put us into an unusual category where we ride many more miles, sharing roadways at higher speeds than pedal bikes. Mixing it up with hurtling machinery and Oscar Grope is never something to take lightly.

 

[rborger73]

I've bought a couple of these over the years:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16998&hilit=+lyen

Not cheap but programmable and good for a commuter bike. Lyen always provides me with fast, excellent service(s). His thumb throttles are my favorite too.

For spokes you might wanna look into JRH for 13/14ga butted Stainless Sapim?
http://holmeshobbies.com/
If you build with a Mammoth Fat rim I use 169mm length spokes for 9C clone motor.

You also may need to "find" the phase/hall combination for this motor and whatever controller you decide to use? It's not that hard but some folks try to ride with WOT before they figure out the proper combination and can blow-up their controller.

Lyen's controllers are fairly well protected from internal shorts and over-current conditions but you will still probably need a little guidance finding phase/hall combos. There's been plenty of discussions - best saved for when you have the components in front of you and ready to test.

One thing that made my life much easier is to stock-up on various connectors, wire and any required crimpers. For the power levels I deal with I use mostly 12ga wire.

For power connections I use a combination of APP (Anderson Power Poles) and/or 4mm Bullets. The APP's require a $40-50 crimper tool to assemble correctly. Some folks balk, others buy-in and enjoy the APP's for what they do. The Bullets are simply soldered but you need to use a fat tip soldering iron to make a good assembly.

Signal (throttle, hall sensor) wiring's something you might not need to deal with in the beginning but will eventually. I'm probably a lone fan of Futaba servo connectors for motor Hall sensor and throttle connections. They're only 3 conductor so you need 2qty for motor Halls but they fit through axle hardware and handle small gauge wire nicely.

When selecting your frame, in addition to suitable brakes and battery location(s), don't forget the ability to use wide tires. 26" I like CST Cyclops which come in about 2.4" wide. Some frames can't handle that width so be careful with your frame selection.

Remember this, an eBike will be much heavier and FASTER than it's unpowered configuration. Hitting potholes and rough roads with 60-100lbs bike weight at 30 MPH is far more potentially damaging than a naked bike weighing 30lbs@15MPH.

One last thing - road traffic safety. Unless you come from a MSF motorcycle background, dig into motorcycle safety (MSF) websites and learn how to deal with various traffic situations.

eBikes put us into an unusual category where we ride many more miles, sharing roadways at higher speeds than pedal bikes. Mixing it up with hurtling machinery and Oscar Grope is never something to take lightly.

Appreciate the advice. Wiring is no worries. I'm used to working with 0 Gauge and 2 gauge. Used to own a car audio and security sales and installation biz. I'm good on the road safety as well no worries. Have an ebike now it goes 30mph or lil faster on downhills. And I ran it with 4 sla batteries on the rear carrier. But ya I'm up on all the safety info. I'll be doing everything right.

 

[rborger73]

Well looks like I'm still looking for a motor. Not sure the deal apparent miscommunication. So hit me up with ideas on ones I don't have to have shipped from China as I need a motor pretty quick. Batteries and the other stuff I order will be here monday. Getting ready to just order a new bike with a big triangle and discs soon as I figure out which to order.. lol

So what is everyones thinking on 29" vs 26" wheels? Everything seems to have 29" that has all the other features I want. I'm eventually going to only have 3 gears for it. I want to switch to a big front sprocket so I can actually pedal without looking like Shaggy and Scooby running from a "ghost" if I decide to pedal. lol So is 29" ok? I always pedal off the start and up to 10 or 15 mph at least.