Bigger wheel = higher speed & less torque for same motor power.
Project build thread. Diamond back overdrive EV
- Thread starter rborger73
- Start date
rborger73
10 kW
So 29" probably isn't a bad way to go then?
Is it a large diff between 26" and 29" or negligible?
Is it a large diff between 26" and 29" or negligible?
Ykick
1 GW
I've heard not as many tire choices with 29s. Disc brakes might be able to run 26" rim rear and fit a fat tire. Caveat being possible pedal-strike and slightly altered frame geometry.
rborger73
10 kW
Well lets hope this works as a good starting point. I went with the 16" since I"m 5'9" if I stand as tall as I can but I slouch to probably 5'7" most of the time. I wanted the 18" to maybe have that few mm of difference in the triangle but it was a 50.00 difference and I wanted it in black so hopefully this will fit me nicely. Heavy dropouts will be made for this. So any advice on either ordering prefab or how much I should or shouldn't over engineer them. This triangle will be packed full of batteries and then made to look like they aren't in there. At least that is the plan. I'll be running a rear carrier as well for the long rides with another battery pack there as well.
So hopefully I chose well..
http://www.amazon.com/Diamondback-Overdrive-Expert-29er-Mountain/dp/B00CPOOQYA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1389474730&sr=1-1&keywords=Diamondback+Overdrive+Expert+29er+Mountain+Bike
So hopefully I chose well..
http://www.amazon.com/Diamondback-Overdrive-Expert-29er-Mountain/dp/B00CPOOQYA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1389474730&sr=1-1&keywords=Diamondback+Overdrive+Expert+29er+Mountain+Bike
rborger73
10 kW
Should be here next week and the fun begins..
rborger73
10 kW
Any opinions on the bike? Also how about a rear motor kit choice under 500.00 or around there? What company has the best shipping, most reliable product, and easiest to pay? I've got to get the motor and controller ordered.
I'm looking at being moved to Colorado at latest 2nd week of March. So then I won't have huge amount of tools and shop I did. So have to have it ready to go by then. I'll have the batteries tomorrow and should have the bike by the end of the week. So I can start working on the fabrication of the battery holder and side covers. I'm aiming for as stealth possible.
I'm also going to be adding in a gps tracking system hidden in the bike if I am putting this much money in it. And likely a proximity and motion alarm as well since I used to do it for a living back in the day. Worth a few hundred to protect 1500 or so investment. May be closer to 2k all said and done.
I'm looking at being moved to Colorado at latest 2nd week of March. So then I won't have huge amount of tools and shop I did. So have to have it ready to go by then. I'll have the batteries tomorrow and should have the bike by the end of the week. So I can start working on the fabrication of the battery holder and side covers. I'm aiming for as stealth possible.
I'm also going to be adding in a gps tracking system hidden in the bike if I am putting this much money in it. And likely a proximity and motion alarm as well since I used to do it for a living back in the day. Worth a few hundred to protect 1500 or so investment. May be closer to 2k all said and done.
wesnewell
100 GW
A 26" bike with steel dropouts would be the best choice for you imo. I wouldn't buy one with aluminum dropouts. But after going through 4 different bikes, I'm still looking for the perfect one. Don't think I'll ever find it.
The fingers
10 TW
Bike looks cool, I would only need to change the saddle as my prostate is puffed. :wink:
rborger73
10 kW
The fingers said:
Ya mine is fine but I already have a seat I love on my current bike it will be swapped.
wesnewell said:
Ya I'll be fabricating some hefty dropout torque arms for it. Ended up with the 29". There just aren't that many steel frames to be had out there. I spent a month searching and finally said screw it. Have a machine shop here I may as well put it to some good use. If I couldn't do that I would of gave up on some of the attributes I wanted to get a steel frame. I can weld aluminum as well here. Gonna make certain it doesn't spin in the drop outs.
I'm thinking about having an airbrush artist I know do a optical illusion on the side panels for the triangle I'm planning to make it look from the side like it is concave. Hard to explain what I mean. I want it to look as stealth as I can get it while still having 20 Ah of batteries in the triangle if it will fit. I'll know that next week.
rborger73
10 kW
Ok so batteries, charger and power supply, and the battery medic thing is here. Initial thoughts were.. hmm glad I went with the hardbacks.. they are nice and feel sturdy.
Every battery except 2 were within .01 of each cell except for 2
Had 3.85 3.85 3.86 and 3.70
Other battery had
3.86 3.86 3.86 and 3.82
Thought I had bullet connectors that would work or the charger would have the common bullet connectors on there but I don't so not tackling doing anything with the packs. Put them all in a sheet metal box inside a stove in the side room of our garage made of concrete and block. so they should be safe from harming anything hehe. That is where they'll be charged as well. I'm wondering if I may switch to different connectors for the packs.
What other connectors are working for people? Heavier andersons and what else? For ease of removal and solid non melting connection?
Every battery except 2 were within .01 of each cell except for 2
Had 3.85 3.85 3.86 and 3.70
Other battery had
3.86 3.86 3.86 and 3.82
Thought I had bullet connectors that would work or the charger would have the common bullet connectors on there but I don't so not tackling doing anything with the packs. Put them all in a sheet metal box inside a stove in the side room of our garage made of concrete and block. so they should be safe from harming anything hehe. That is where they'll be charged as well. I'm wondering if I may switch to different connectors for the packs.
What other connectors are working for people? Heavier andersons and what else? For ease of removal and solid non melting connection?
FeralDog
100 W
@ rborger73 --- You are about to experience the fun world of RC Lipo connections. Once you get your first Lipo system mail order, you find you have to make another Lipo system mail order just to get the first one to fit.
Such is the nature of Lipo addiction ........ :lol:
On the main power leads , the ones you are presently having trouble "adapting". I suggest getting (at least) more 10pc sets of 4mm bullet connections (HXT gold 4mm type looks good, but some folks have difficulty soldering them). Then also maybe get a set of Anderson Powerpoles ... the crimping tool is nice but expensive, thus the price of the Andersons AND tool&die does make them a lifetime commitment. If you do a lot of connections, they (AP) can be worth the cost.
Make short 12 gauge and 10 gauge wire "adapters" so that you can limit the amount of plug cutting on your existing (and future) batteries and charger.
{You do know that you may have a weird warranty on those HK batteries if the serial numbers are registered with HK?}
The reason for 4mm Bullets and Andersons is the large amount of batteries you have; the connection(s) needed to get batteries to each other AND to your Charger; and finally the connections to hook the batteries to your motor controller.
I personally find that the Andersons are at least better color coded (Red & Black, etc), pair together nicely, and haven't failed me yet after 5 years of connecting and disconnecting.
You may be able to get by with just the 4mm bullet connections but I find them visually confusing when in a large spaghetti bundle of wires.
Who knows , some day you may even want to venture into the world of Parallel Charging Boards (Paraboards) and they are initially dependent on what type Main Leads you connect with.http://www.buddyrc.com/paraboard-parallel-charge-board.html
Such is the nature of Lipo addiction ........ :lol:
On the main power leads , the ones you are presently having trouble "adapting". I suggest getting (at least) more 10pc sets of 4mm bullet connections (HXT gold 4mm type looks good, but some folks have difficulty soldering them). Then also maybe get a set of Anderson Powerpoles ... the crimping tool is nice but expensive, thus the price of the Andersons AND tool&die does make them a lifetime commitment. If you do a lot of connections, they (AP) can be worth the cost.
Make short 12 gauge and 10 gauge wire "adapters" so that you can limit the amount of plug cutting on your existing (and future) batteries and charger.
{You do know that you may have a weird warranty on those HK batteries if the serial numbers are registered with HK?}
The reason for 4mm Bullets and Andersons is the large amount of batteries you have; the connection(s) needed to get batteries to each other AND to your Charger; and finally the connections to hook the batteries to your motor controller.
I personally find that the Andersons are at least better color coded (Red & Black, etc), pair together nicely, and haven't failed me yet after 5 years of connecting and disconnecting.
You may be able to get by with just the 4mm bullet connections but I find them visually confusing when in a large spaghetti bundle of wires.
Who knows , some day you may even want to venture into the world of Parallel Charging Boards (Paraboards) and they are initially dependent on what type Main Leads you connect with.http://www.buddyrc.com/paraboard-parallel-charge-board.html
rborger73
10 kW
I guess I need to see if I have an anderson crimper laying about.. Fair chance actually. lol But looking into price as well since it will stay here at the homestead with the family when I move in a month or two. I like to streamline everything I do. So I know soon as I start fussing with the cheaper connectors I'll end up buying all new and re soldering or redoing everything.
The plan eventually of course is as simple a method of charging and balancing as possible, in the shortest amount of time. Very likely I'll build 2 20 Ah packs for it. I put all 12 batteries on the rear carrier and could barely feel them back there. I'm used to having 20lbs of Sla on there half the time. Likely I'll throw the rear carrier on the new bike. It's already bolted to the seat post anyways, and I'm switching seats. That way soon as I get the motor (which I thought was going to be shipped by a ES member today but... ya we won't go there. No funds lost so it's just whatever.
What is likely to be the fastest to ship, easiest to send funds, and best quality motor? The lower power crystalite motors look great just seem hard to get shipped in short term. I'm looking to go maybe another 500.00 between motor and controller. Maybe 600 with a higher end controller.
I'm working on finding the best most reliable gps tracker and going to do a 2 way pager security system as well. May as well order a smaller lower Ah 12v battery to run usb plugs and the security system as well.
Since it the bike will not look stock I'm thinking of having a label printed or a sticker for somewhere that says the GPS is welded into the frame and to remove it the frame must be cut open. I'll be doing a proximity sensor as well for when I park it away from people, or just vibration and motion in populated areas. I'll be working very hard to keep all electronic components hidden. Other than the tablet on the handlebars.
Oh what is the closest to the same quality the Cycle analyst has but blue tooth to android app? I'll be searching again but know I've seen several that seemed like great deals.
Thanks for the advice on the connectors and whatnot.
The plan eventually of course is as simple a method of charging and balancing as possible, in the shortest amount of time. Very likely I'll build 2 20 Ah packs for it. I put all 12 batteries on the rear carrier and could barely feel them back there. I'm used to having 20lbs of Sla on there half the time. Likely I'll throw the rear carrier on the new bike. It's already bolted to the seat post anyways, and I'm switching seats. That way soon as I get the motor (which I thought was going to be shipped by a ES member today but... ya we won't go there. No funds lost so it's just whatever.
What is likely to be the fastest to ship, easiest to send funds, and best quality motor? The lower power crystalite motors look great just seem hard to get shipped in short term. I'm looking to go maybe another 500.00 between motor and controller. Maybe 600 with a higher end controller.
I'm working on finding the best most reliable gps tracker and going to do a 2 way pager security system as well. May as well order a smaller lower Ah 12v battery to run usb plugs and the security system as well.
Since it the bike will not look stock I'm thinking of having a label printed or a sticker for somewhere that says the GPS is welded into the frame and to remove it the frame must be cut open. I'll be doing a proximity sensor as well for when I park it away from people, or just vibration and motion in populated areas. I'll be working very hard to keep all electronic components hidden. Other than the tablet on the handlebars.
Oh what is the closest to the same quality the Cycle analyst has but blue tooth to android app? I'll be searching again but know I've seen several that seemed like great deals.
Thanks for the advice on the connectors and whatnot.
wesnewell
100 GW
Stay with the 4mm bullets. You rarely see a problem with them and you will see all kinds with Andersons. I do use XT60's at the controller because they are smaller and still good for 60A, but everywhere else I use bullets and have never had a problem with them and they're good for ~90A.
rborger73
10 kW
Looking like the best plan there Wesnewell with the bullets.
Am I crazy for really considering the Magic pie 3 here? Internal controller while I decide on a heavier external controller. Who here has a mp3? Pros cons? Shipping speed and cost? I'm going to put an order in and see what shipping ends up. Watching and rewatching some mp3 youtube vids.
Am I crazy for really considering the Magic pie 3 here? Internal controller while I decide on a heavier external controller. Who here has a mp3? Pros cons? Shipping speed and cost? I'm going to put an order in and see what shipping ends up. Watching and rewatching some mp3 youtube vids.
rborger73
10 kW
Anyone running the magic pie 3 on 12s? Top speed and what tire size are you running? I've got 20 Ah of 12s at the moment.
If I run this 12s of 20 Ah with normal pedaling with the 29" tires would be a fair guestimate? With Denver fairly flat street riding.
If I run this 12s of 20 Ah with normal pedaling with the 29" tires would be a fair guestimate? With Denver fairly flat street riding.
rborger73
10 kW
And Magic Pie III 700ccc kit ordered along with their rear torque arms. I may make my own but figured for 40.00 I'll grab them and use them and re-engineer my own later. I'll be having the mp3 laced into the rim that comes on the bike though. It is a strong double walled rim and I want to keep the rims both looking the same. I know there can be issue with the internal controller but I also have seen people use an external controller with them. Which is what I'll probably end up switching to. But I'm thinking I'll see how this does in 12s. With the 29" wheel I may be able to keep good top speed out in Denver where it is flatter. Around here it is pretty hilly but after riding around my 26" mtb with 4 sla batteries on the rear carrier with a Bafang 8fun on it this should be easier. All 12 batteries are way way lighter than even 2 of the slas. I'd have no problem weight wise putting a front carrier, a rear carrier, and full triangle.
How many bikes have gotten close or past the 100 mile range yet? I know I've seen a few. 60 Ah of 12s get close to that?
Getting excited now. Other than a few smaller items and some time wiring and assembling getting close. Can't wait till the bike gets here so I can see how close I am going to end up triangle wise. The internal controller also allows me to have less hanging off the bike. Next tidbit kicking around in my mind is seeing if anyone in town does vaccuum molding once I get all the pieces lined up how I want for my handlebars. I was thinking of seeing if I can do sort of an enclosure. I suppose if I must I can go back to the nasty job of making a fiberglass enclosure for the dash components, the key if I do all that will be space and whether it would cause problems or break easily. This may be my last project having availability of this shop so I better do it up right before I can't.
How many bikes have gotten close or past the 100 mile range yet? I know I've seen a few. 60 Ah of 12s get close to that?
Getting excited now. Other than a few smaller items and some time wiring and assembling getting close. Can't wait till the bike gets here so I can see how close I am going to end up triangle wise. The internal controller also allows me to have less hanging off the bike. Next tidbit kicking around in my mind is seeing if anyone in town does vaccuum molding once I get all the pieces lined up how I want for my handlebars. I was thinking of seeing if I can do sort of an enclosure. I suppose if I must I can go back to the nasty job of making a fiberglass enclosure for the dash components, the key if I do all that will be space and whether it would cause problems or break easily. This may be my last project having availability of this shop so I better do it up right before I can't.
rborger73
10 kW
Haha well looks like the Diamondback might get here today even, at latest tomorrow. I had no idea where it was shipping from it didn't say. So happens it is about 35 minutes from here. Ya! It could of gotten here before they gave me a tracking number. lol Amazon just now got tracking on it. If I'd of slept in I'd of gotten it before I even woke up possibly. Now if the Magic Pie 3 gets here that fast I'll be tickled.
Not many people replying here..., but I'll keep posting and asking questions hehe. Going to call my LBS today sometime and see if they hopefully have done some hub motor lacing. How has your luck been with LBS being able to handle the job? Pittsburgh is only 45 minutes away worst case scenario.
Should the 700cc spokes be useable in the 29" rim since they are essentially the same from what I understand. I may use the rim that comes with the MP3 to get things setup and rolling fast.
Anyone know of a nice connector kit that includes those bullet connectors that come on the Turnigys? I have been googling trying to find a nice kit nothing has turned up yet. Also looking for a fast shipping source for 8awg and 10 awg. I may grab some 12 as well. May order a new soldering gun while I'm at it. Something with more control. My good ones are long gone and just cheaper ones laying about now.
It could of gotten here before they gave me a tracking number. lol Amazon just now got tracking on it. If I'd of slept in I'd of gotten it before I even woke up possibly. Now if the Magic Pie 3 gets here that fast I'll be tickled. Not many people replying here..., but I'll keep posting and asking questions hehe. Going to call my LBS today sometime and see if they hopefully have done some hub motor lacing. How has your luck been with LBS being able to handle the job? Pittsburgh is only 45 minutes away worst case scenario.
Should the 700cc spokes be useable in the 29" rim since they are essentially the same from what I understand. I may use the rim that comes with the MP3 to get things setup and rolling fast.
Anyone know of a nice connector kit that includes those bullet connectors that come on the Turnigys? I have been googling trying to find a nice kit nothing has turned up yet. Also looking for a fast shipping source for 8awg and 10 awg. I may grab some 12 as well. May order a new soldering gun while I'm at it. Something with more control. My good ones are long gone and just cheaper ones laying about now.
rborger73
10 kW
wow yup on vehicle for delivery. If I recall they try to deliver large packages first so .. could be in just a few hours now. Lets hope I chose wisely.
If I recall they try to deliver large packages first so .. could be in just a few hours now. Lets hope I chose wisely.
rborger73
10 kW
Guess till I start posting pictures people will be less likely to reply. lol
dogman dan
1 PW
I tend to give some standard advice, then stop looking at a thread rather than get too into arguing with other members. Can be fun to argue sometimes, but not on somebodies noob thread.
Re connecting the lipo, I still like andersons for the battery to the controller, and controller to motor phase connections. It keeps all my controllers usable on all my motors, and the battery connection works good even when the spark has fried the tips. The rest of the lipo battery connections use bullets, that unplug during the ride less easy.
You do not need a special crimper, to make a good crimp. You do need a crimper better than the crimp part of your wire stripper.
What I have taken to doing, is making adapter wires that convert 4 mm or 5 mm bullets to andersons. In some cases, they are simple adapters. In other cases, they connect two 14s packs in parallel, then convert to andersons. I also make take packs that are proven good and matched, and make permanent parallel connections with them, by cutting off both bullets, splicing the wire, and replacing one connector. So then the pack is 10 ah, with two 5 ah packs but only one bullet connector now. Then I make series connections with bullets, and put the Anderson adapter on the remaining last + and -.
Bottom line, there are lots of ways to connect up packs. All work fine, except the ones that result in KFF. Like, don't connect series connected packs balance plugs to a parallel charging board. Unplug those series connections first for sure.
Re connecting the lipo, I still like andersons for the battery to the controller, and controller to motor phase connections. It keeps all my controllers usable on all my motors, and the battery connection works good even when the spark has fried the tips. The rest of the lipo battery connections use bullets, that unplug during the ride less easy.
You do not need a special crimper, to make a good crimp. You do need a crimper better than the crimp part of your wire stripper.
What I have taken to doing, is making adapter wires that convert 4 mm or 5 mm bullets to andersons. In some cases, they are simple adapters. In other cases, they connect two 14s packs in parallel, then convert to andersons. I also make take packs that are proven good and matched, and make permanent parallel connections with them, by cutting off both bullets, splicing the wire, and replacing one connector. So then the pack is 10 ah, with two 5 ah packs but only one bullet connector now. Then I make series connections with bullets, and put the Anderson adapter on the remaining last + and -.
Bottom line, there are lots of ways to connect up packs. All work fine, except the ones that result in KFF. Like, don't connect series connected packs balance plugs to a parallel charging board. Unplug those series connections first for sure.
rborger73
10 kW
dogman said:
I guess it comes down to how I charge more. I'm guessing I should order some parallel charging boards and balance lead boards as well for the price. I wish I had the battery harness made up or the connectors I need sitting here. I could take a little first "Lipo" spin on the old bike at least hehe.
Other than wiring for the packs, a better charging method for ease of use, and the motor / controller / wiring kit from golden motors, I'm set at least to be rolling. I like the idea of the anderson plugs for at minimum connection from battery to controller. Makes sense. If I had no will power I'd be out cutting all the bullets off my backs and soldering it all together for now. hehe.. But I'll wait till I have the proper connectors if I must.
I am going to spend some time in a bit (depending on how early fedex comes) trying to find a bluetooth version of something like cycle analyst so I can just run an app instead of a Cycle analyst for less handlebar clutter. I'll like run a volt meter display as well with just overall pack voltage and tie it into the keyswitch I'm likely to get.
Battery charged up on the Nikon so I'll be putting up some pics this evening of the bike being unboxed and put together in its human only powered form. Big step up from my 99.00 wally Huffy bike hehe.
Anyone have a good source for a convertor to step down from the main pack voltage to 12v? Trying to decide if I want to just run 1 12v lipo battery to handle security and powering lights and my usb devices, or if I run everything off the same pack. I'm at a point money wise it would be "wise" for me to do my due diligence to keep anyone else from taking it from me.
rborger73
10 kW
Good for my 12 4s packs to charge half at a time I take it?
http://www.progressiverc.com/parallel-charge-board-for-jst-xh-hxt-4mm-bullet.html
Any better source for this, or better board? Trying to avoid as many mistakes due to ignorance as I can, so speak up if you have a reply.
http://www.progressiverc.com/parallel-charge-board-for-jst-xh-hxt-4mm-bullet.html
Any better source for this, or better board? Trying to avoid as many mistakes due to ignorance as I can, so speak up if you have a reply.
rborger73
10 kW
Thinking of going with this. http://www.speedict.com/ The mercury. I have a 7" Galaxy tab I use with the current bike. I'll use that for now combined with the speedict. My brother just got a couple generic tablets for like 70 bucks before Christmas. I may pick one up to mount permanently on the bike. That way I can possibly reach the bluetooth from in the house with my good tablet to monitor charging while leaving the one on the bike locked down.
If I'm going to dump this much money in something I may as well do it right. So thinking of either machining a dash out of aluminum, or 3d printed or vacuum formed plastic or something. But make the dash weather proof as much as possible. Any ideas on maybe using a piece of soft edged rubber weatherstrip that is pressed down on the outer edge of the surface of the tablet to kind of pressure seal it in place. So it leaves the gorilla glass in the tablet accessible, but keeps all but super heavy rain out. I'm halfway ready to buy a 3d printer so I can bring some of my crazy ideas to life easier.
I think I'm going to spend a lot of time tweaking the dashboard. See how it ends up.
If I'm going to dump this much money in something I may as well do it right. So thinking of either machining a dash out of aluminum, or 3d printed or vacuum formed plastic or something. But make the dash weather proof as much as possible. Any ideas on maybe using a piece of soft edged rubber weatherstrip that is pressed down on the outer edge of the surface of the tablet to kind of pressure seal it in place. So it leaves the gorilla glass in the tablet accessible, but keeps all but super heavy rain out. I'm halfway ready to buy a 3d printer so I can bring some of my crazy ideas to life easier.
I think I'm going to spend a lot of time tweaking the dashboard. See how it ends up.
rborger73
10 kW
Well for some reason my card is working with paypal now. lol I tested it thinking the speedict mercury probably would not go through.... I thought wrong. So spedict is on it's way, Magic pie with internal controller also on its way along with all its stuff.
Now still need to order all power wire and connectors to do the battery and I should be close to rolling soon as I get the motor. I may be able to find the connectors local I'm hoping. See if I can find a store that carries them. Never know around here. lol
So spedict is on it's way, Magic pie with internal controller also on its way along with all its stuff. Now still need to order all power wire and connectors to do the battery and I should be close to rolling soon as I get the motor. I may be able to find the connectors local I'm hoping. See if I can find a store that carries them. Never know around here. lol
wesnewell
100 GW
I don't like the parallel charging boards. I used parallel charge and balance cables when I used to charge my 12 4s packs parallel all at once.
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