QS268 Hub Motor Shuts Off When Accelerating

[tedo]

It is so bad now it is not even realistic. It just randomly shuts down without even the throttle burst. I have a video of it happening. I will link it to you after making it. I am writing SiaSysco but not sure if they care. I have done more auto learns with no improvement.

This may be clue.... when this happens, the regenerative braking fails also. I can move no amps, but all other indications look normal.

Can I bluetooth to the BMS and controller at same time? The BMS shows me nothing that looks real time. Just settings.

 

[dominik h]

Your controller must have been shut off, as my "curve" after turning on the controller looks exactly like yours.

My settings,

 

[tedo]

Here are some screenshots from today. Still making video. But these are good as pausing the video and they are shots from a video. This is with 400amps max line and the 81V low. The automatically sets the return volts. I do not see my volts dropping that low. You can see the 400Amps is where it shuts off. I had 400 selected and 100% in gear power for gear 3.

I do not even want that much from my battery. My issue is that whatever I set my line amps limit to, the motor will shut off at. So I could do 100 amps max line and have the same issue. Should I try the other hall wire? The wire colors are all different.

 

[tedo]

Your controller must have been shut off, as my "curve" after turning on the controller looks exactly like yours.

I see a big difference with mine compared to yours. I have my max speed set 1670 RPM everywhere. I thought that is where the motor will blow up. I see you have 1500ish rated, but then 2000+ and 3000 even for max. My motor shuts off at low speeds also and the tire is not spinning so that is prob not the issue.

 

[dominik h]

This may be clue.... when this happens, the regenerative braking fails also. I can move no amps, but all other indications look normal.

Can I bluetooth to the BMS and controller at same time? The BMS shows me nothing that looks real time. Just sesettings.

My old ANT BMS has shown values every second.
Android phones can do a split screen and can show two running Apps at once

I only had the bms cutting out when regen was activated, then the controller does not shut down, because the turning motor has enough energy stored to run the controller. I had "undervoltage error" and the app was also showing that weakening field was activated. It took me a week to understand what happend.
The bms had shut the battery off while the controller was regenerating because i had set the temperature for charging to high. Then the controller had to use field weakening to get rid of the energy from the motor.

 

[dominik h]

One good thing, now your throttle values look good.
The battery was not to low with 400A, that does not seem to be the problem.
But the BMS has a lot of other values and possibilities to switch off the battery.

 

[dominik h]

I never get over 1600rpm without weakening field activated.
I set the values that high to not get limited.
The motor will not blow up, with no load they reach easily 2000rpm

 

[dominik h]

Are you shure that your controller has the same problems with 200A line and boost current settings?

I would also reduce the ratios for regen bracking to values around 10%, just to be shure this (trying to brake with 1000A phase current) does not produce any problems.

 

[tedo]

Are you shure that your controller has the same problems with 200A line and boost current settings?

I would also reduce the ratios for regen bracking to values around 10%, just to be shure this (trying to brake with 1000A phase current) does not produce any problems.

Not sure what you mean. I put 400A line max and boost max last time. I am not even using the boost wire. My Regen is pretty low, but I could just put zeros and see. Amorge told me 40 amps max. I don't see any graph on the battery. It is in Chinese mostly and I may not be finding the correct page

 

[dominik h]

You set the stop back current to 30A, but the ratio says try to regenerate with 25% or 50% of 1500A phase current.
I do not know at whoch phase current the controller starts and how fast it regulates back the phase current that low that it not exceeds 30A battery current

 

[tedo]

Oh I thought those were % of the 40% overall. Crap.

I'm going back to work. Tomorrow morning I may try a whole new plan. Reset everything. Run auto learn. Max everything to 100%. Then I know the battery is the only limit. See what happens

I was very methodical putting this together and took my time and did everything right.l and researched it all for almost a year. I see guys on youtube slap crap together and send it. I'm over it. Don't really care if it blows up. I've lost more money before.

 

[dominik h]

I'm shure the controller will not blow up.
But make a Video while you are testing.
I have made a video when my Sabvoton SVMV72260 blew up his mosfets with a loud bang and a lightning. It took me another sabvoton until I did understand why they blow up using weakening field in no load conditions. The Fardriver can handle this situation.

 

[tedo]

Here is the video of it doing its thing. I also have disabled Regen for this.

 

[dominik h]

Weird. No errors shown in the Video.

If your setup survives the "all in" setting, then I would try again and start with lower settings overall. Just to see if it still the same.

Try 330A line current and also reduce phase current to 1200A.

Your motor has lower resistance than mine, probably the controller had problems with this.

I have driven my scooter with 450A line and 1500A phase current without issues, but my BMS is only rated for 200A and I killed the old BMS while testing it stationary with an electronic load 490A after 13 seconds. The Lifepo battery from the test was taken from the Kids Kettcar.

 

[tedo]

I may go and zero out every setting like you have in those sections I dont understand. Something is telling the motor to shut off until stopped. I know what ever line amp limit I set it will happen at that amount. I have contacted Siaecosys where I got it. Maybe they know.

 

[dominik h]

My controller is from 2022 and has at least a different controlboard inside. I do not know if copying my settings will be the solution, but it won't make anything worse.

You can also test the second hall set, probably it makes a difference, but you must do an auto learn after changing.

 

[tedo]

The wires are all diff colors . Does that matter? I have read it is an identical backup.

 

[dominik h]

The second hall wire plug has different colours but everything is at the same position in the plug.

This time it is a "plug and play" job.

 

[tedo]

The second hall wire plug has different colours but everything is at the same position in the plug.

This time it is a "plug and play" job.

Cool. Thanks

 

[dominik h]

Can you post pictures of the bike?
I like to see the routing of the cables and I want to know where the controller is installed.
Probably it is an EMC-problem.
Have you got plugs from the controller with inputs which are not terminated?
My controller sits on a big piece of aluminium above the big battery Of which every cell has its own aluminium housing. All the small wires are at lest 20cm away from any wire with hundreds of amps flowing.

Pictures are from the small sabvoton , underneath the sabvoton in the black insulation is the battery going from the Front to the back, filling the while scooter.
My battery is 78x23x30cm and weights over 70kg.

 

[tedo]

Can you post pictures of the bike?
I like to see the routing of the cables and I want to know where the controller is installed.
Probably it is an EMC-problem.
Have you got plugs from the controller with inputs which are not terminated?
My controller sits on a big piece of aluminium above the big battery Of which every cell has its own aluminium housing. All the small wires are at lest 20cm away from any wire with hundreds of amps flowing.

Pictures are from the small sabvoton , underneath the sabvoton in the black insulation is the battery going from the Front to the back, filling the while scooter.
My battery is 78x23x30cm and weights over 70kg.
View attachment 368035View attachment 368036

I think I made a discovery. I think the "simple mode" is limiting PHASE amps under 3 speed parameters and on pro mode the Ratio in Gears is limiting LINE Amps. The phase amps limit is prob being hit and shutting off motor. I dont know how to see phase amps total. There are Phase A and Phase C gauges, but no Phase B. Do add the 2 together and make up a 3rd number to add to get total phase amps.

I am going to set a high line amps and low phase amps like 600ish and see if I can duplicate the issue on just phase amp exceedance. Then I am going to flip it to 1800 Phase Max and like 200 Line Max and see what happens. I think may be looking in the wrong place.

Yes I have many uncapped wire connectors I am not using and they are all collocated with

 

[dominik h]

There is no total phase amps.
If everything is running good you can see >1000A on phase A and C , B has no current sensor and is calculated from the controller.
That saves the manufacturer a few dollars.
When i had installed the ND72680, I did check the phase current with a current clamp Meter. The meter was showing the set 630A and the app has shown 440A. So the app shows Arms and the values in the software are Apeak.
Apeak/1,41=Arms.

My minus wire is coming from the Front of the scooter, the plus is coming from the back. The smaller wires (25mm²) on top are for the 150A charging connector. The controller has a 400A fuse sitting in front of the controller In the black plastic cover where the lot of smaller wires is going to.

You have the same problems as I have, all the phase wires are running over the control wires. My phase wires are going 30cm down and the control wires are all going to the side in the same height the controller sits.

Sorry I have no photos anymore, but here is a Screenshot from my thread in Germany.

 

[tedo]

There is no total phase amps.
If everything is running good you can see >1000A on phase A and C , B has no current sensor and is calculated from the controller.
That saves the manufacturer a few dollars.
When i had installed the ND72680, I did check the phase current with a current clamp Meter. The meter was showing the set 630A and the app has shown 440A. So the app shows Arms and the values in the software are Apeak.
Apeak/1,41=Arms.

My minus wire is coming from the Front of the scooter, the plus is coming from the back. The smaller wires (25mm²) on top are for the 150A charging connector. The controller has a 400A fuse sitting in front of the controller In the black plastic cover where the lot of smaller wires is going to.

You have the same problems as I have, all the phase wires are running over the control wires. My phase wires are going 30cm down and the control wires are all going to the side in the same height the controller sits.

Sorry I have no photos anymore, but here is a Screenshot from my thread in Germany.
View attachment 368051

This is so stupid! It works perfect now. I reset the controller and did another auto learn. If it limit it to 100 line amps it drives nice and maxes out at like 40mph and just stays there like it should. nothing dies. Same exact results by limiting the phase amps. It just needed a simple reset. SMH . What a waste of time. LOL

 

[dominik h]

Then raise currents in steps and see what happens.

If all the time I had worked on my scooter was paid time, I could have bought a used Zero SR from the money.

 

[tedo]

Then raise currents in steps and see what happens.

If all the time I had worked on my scooter was paid time, I could have bought a used Zero SR from the money.

LMAO....... I am like that with everything! And on that same road now