Quadcopter Build

[Deanwvu]

Much information can be displayed on the HUD. Sorry, I should have linked the video above. There are several videos in the series, but you'll be able to find them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gI3F_C-VBk

 

[nechaus]

thanks mate!

I have not yet got OSD installed, I think ill get that minimOSD

 

[izeman]

yesterday i got my usbasp programmer and flashed opentx to my 9xr remote. running fine so far. i did the hardware mod for frsky telemetry module but can't get the telemetry screen to show (LONG DOWN press). it looks to me that telemetry with multiwii is still a bit new and not that proven. megapirateng seems to me much better in this case. i just haven't found a good tool to tune settings for it with my iphone. all tools are android only, and i only have a very small very old motorola defy.
atm i'm thinking about pro/cons of multwii vs megapirateng, and i guess the later may win the race - it seems to be a mightier piece of software whereas multiwii is more common.

 

[nechaus]

well the megapirateng is like ported/copied from ardupilot, same software really.. but could be buggy
I have tried it a few times, But one time it seriously glitched out on me, I ended up just loading multiwii 2.3 offical version which I have had no problems with.

The glitch was pretty scary, It went full pitch forward and would not respond to the transmitter. I am lucky that my house was in the way otherwise it would of hit my neighbours house.....
If you do play around with megapirateng.. I would keep it low and just be careful until you are 100% confident in it.

I am really confident with multiwii, I have only had one real bug with the altitude hold not turning off.. but managed to get around it by flicking RTL on and off... Note this was with the Beta navigational version of the multiwii not the offical version.. and its only happened twice when i use altitude hold for the entire flight..



I would probably recommend just buying Arducopter board that can naturally run the ardupilot stuff..They also have many copter configs with their own set PID's.. with megapirate you only have a couple to choose from like X and + ect.. you will need to do the pid tunning, It also have a Autotune feature which is pretty good, I tested it and it works well.. but after that glitch, I could not troubleshoot onto why it happened, So that was my reason for going back to multiwii...


but yeah overall the arducopter stuff is way more comprehensive and has some awesome features..

 

[izeman]

i really don't need THAT many features.
but i need GPS POSITION HOLD,RETURN TO HOME and telemetry. it seems especially telemetry is working better with megapirateng than with multiwii. there is SO MUCH information flowing around so it's easy to become confused. i can't find out what is in which version and what is official and what has to be patch, bla bla bla ...
i spent a whole evening trying to find out why my opentx 9xr didn't show the telemetry screen. checked hardware mods several time, flashed the firmware, reflashed, reconnected the receiver. nothing. then i registered on "openrcforum" and in one thread (covering a different topic) it was mentioned that telemetry doesn't work with version 2.0.8 on 9xr. wow! 5h gone for nothing.
2.0.10 seems to be out. but only the source code. so i have to find out how to use that. time consuming. very time consuming. and i just want to make it ready to fly. only good thing: the propeller reamer and the new props still have no arrived
i also have some issues understanding HOW the receiver has to be connected to the multiwii board. which channel connects to what a#-port? what does roll, pitch, yaw really mean and how do i find out if everything is connected correctly? i can check with multiwii-gui that throttle gimbal makes throttle input signal move and so on. but even finding out if left-right on mode2 remote right gimbal is yaw or roll is very confusing if you've never done it before. i would very much prefer a local guy to meet and explain the basic steps/question in FIVE minutes instead of spending DAYS on the internet to crawl through zillions of homepages with obsolete information.

 

[nechaus]

I think once you finish this build your mind will be more open to it all... it is alot to take in but your doing a damm fine job and your learning heaps.. keep at it man, not long to go
I attached a picture of what pitch roll and yaw is..

The way I connect the receiver at the moment is by running each channel from the receiver to the flight controller, Each channel has its own wire. ( some use ppm which uses only a couple of wires to send pulses and in each pulse with have all the throttle pitch roll yaw aux info in each set of pulses... its good to use this because its less wiring mess but you may as well just do it the regular way...

So on the multiwii board you have Pitch, Roll, Yaw, Throttle, 4 channels to fly... get this right first and then you will understand how to setup your AUX channels to change modes

basically you just want to match the corresponding channels from the receiver to the multiwii board
Throttle to throttle
yaw to yaw
pitch to pitch
roll to roll ...


attached a pin out to assist you.
I don't mind doing a skype session with you to get this thing in the air man.

 

[nechaus]

please look at the markings on the board to tell you what is + - and signal

Ground is always on the outside of the pins, signal wire is always towards the center of the board, regardless of the side..
Please make sure you know this before plugging anything in

 

[nechaus]

picture of my board, no motors are plugged in but my gps, bluetooth and receiver is all plugged in

 

[izeman]

thanks. this info was essential. haven't seen (realized??) before.
i found out that there is tons of info about tuning everything but almost no info about the essential stuff for noobs. everyone tells you to only attach signal wires and remove gnd/positive, but NO information that tells you WHAT wire to plug into WHAT. :?
you've been great help so far - THANKS a lot!

 

[nechaus]

more than welcome

those arrows are pointing to the ground, the pins that are closest to the center are the signal wires...

 

[nechaus]

by the way, if you are not getting gps signal, just try swap tx and rx around... TXto RX and Rx to TX

 

[nechaus]

if you want to use a gimbal, you could try use the one that runs directly off the board as well.. not sure if you know this or not.
Its meant to be used with just a couple of servos for a 2 axis system.

You can enable the gimbal control in the config.h ( servos signal wire just plugs into the cam nick and roll on the multiwii pro, you must feed the servo with an alternate power supply cannot draw the power via the board as it will most likley reset or fail)
If you use the gimble mix function you could use a diy gimbal like this. I do like these because of how light weight they are, I think if you want a cheap ultra light weight gimbal, this is the way to go, all you need is to get two servos and make some bits from tubes, zip ties hot glue..will work with a gopro and it pretty much eliminates jello from the video due to the tube pieces that isolate it.
It is a fair bit of tinkering to get working correctly well, but I found it is pretty good and people do get pretty decent results.. i made a few variations of it.. just mucked around really..
[youtube]KPBL4pPEzNI[/youtube]



I had a brushless gimbal on order from aliexpress for $52, great deal, but the seller said he shipped, posted up a tracking number no info for 2 weeks, I lied and said i contacted the postal company and they have no record of this item number, The seller then responded saying there was a mix up in the shipping of the item, but assured me it has been shipped. I got refuned via aliexpress.

4 weeks later today, still no item, no gimbal will ever come lol.
I have been getting some really bad luck lately with scammers on aliexpress.

 

[izeman]

by the way, if you are not getting gps signal, just try swap tx and rx around... TX to RX and Rx to TX

i knew that thing about ground and signal as it's indicated on the board and on the receiver as well. so far it's working. i can ARM the copter and make the motors run faster etc. also when tilting it different motors rev up/down. that's good.
gps is working as well after i found out that it has to be plugged into serial #2.
oled i2c display is working as well, but controlling it is very weird. i have this scheme that tells you how to set everything but the only combination working correctly is dis/ARM.


if i eg try to start/stop telemetry i have a swapped configuration. instead of left DOWN, and right UPPER LEFT i have to do left LOWER LEFT and right UP or DOWN (can't remember). or some other configuration. and i can't find out how to fix it. as i said ARMING is working, so THROTTLE and YAW seem to be ok. as soon as i'm in the config menu, the left stick moves through the menu and the right one changes values. so REALLY WEIRD and i can't find a logic behind it.

 

[nechaus]

It does sound complicated. I never used the lcd because bluetooth seems to work well..Also gives you voice feedback.. range is only like maybe 100 to 200 meters depending on the area.
I will order some osd for fpv soon but I need to really read more about it.

 

[Deanwvu]

Nechaeus (and all)

I think I am about to order the following... please give me your opinion on my choices. They are similar to yours except that I am using a hexacopter, and I chose a different motor.

Here you go:

Frame: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...opter_Frame_550mm_Integrated_PCB_Version.html

Controller Board + GPS: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ontroller_w_MTK_GPS_Module.html?strSearch=gps

Motors: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=37797

Speed Controller: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._Firmware_US_Warehouse_.html?strSearch=simonk

Props: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=49280

Bluetooth: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=54803


Are the motors too much?? Should I go with the 3530's you linked in your first post?

Also, what battery would be best? I am looking more for longer flights than lightweight and acrobatics.

Thanks all!


(I plan to add FPS goggles and camera to this later, as well as that OSD HUD I mentioned above, but I want to learn to fly this thing in "3rd person" first!)

 

[nechaus]

The motors are good but they are to much for the ESC, The ESC is rated for 30 amps max, On the motors I suggested they have a max draw of 22 amps
Thoses bigger motors have a max draw of 38 amps..

They will work but you need bigger ESC's to run it safetly

I would either get bigger props and esc
or
go to a smaller motor, you dont need to pick the one i suggested but keep in mind the prop size, and amps that it needs at max throttle


I am literally about to build the same build as you, I will just be using the 3530 motors with 10 inch props, as a hex they work really well.
It has more than enough power to carry your gopro+ gimbal + rest of your gear as well as a 8000mah + battery

 

[nechaus]

Guys I have ordered some Carbon props,

Two types

First one is the carbon mix and 10-4.5
And tstyle 10 inch...

The carbon mix is actually far more rigid than the t-style props which have that normal carbon look...
Carbon mix props
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=49822
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=54432

These props are quieter than the plastic ones and also give a bit more performance

 

[Deanwvu]

What are the biggest props that the h550 frame (the one I linked above) can handle??

I'm looking for an efficient platform. While messing around with that xcopter calc website, I discovered that larger props yield much longer flight times with the same battery....

 

[nechaus]

yeah bigger props, lower kv, more voltage is good, its what you need to do for an endurance build. You will still get very decent flight times with 10 inch prop hex.. it will feel less daunting as well flying it, I cant really say I enjoy flying the bigger multirotors.. like 600mm + This is why I like the idea of the Y style or X 8

Going below 600kv gets harder and more expensive to run because you normally need to buy more expensive controllers to run the hi pole count motors..

I will take a picture for you of that frame with some 10 inch props, I am going to be build mine this afternoon to take away this weekend..

Be back shortly

 

[nechaus]

Here is the hex frame, Looks like 10 inch props is the biggest it will take...


If you want to go with a bigger frame, You could either build one, Or perhaps buy a tarot frame thats all carbon, But just remember to get good radio gear, the receiver will need a dual anntenna diversity system. Using the standard single antenna receiver, I used the 9x rx, and I had issues with loss of signal, But it can be done with some upgrades to the radio gear.

 

[nechaus]

tarot fy680 beside hobbyking hex with rc timer arms.. no difference in the arms I just like black and white instead of cream and red.


I think for the money the hex from hobbyking is just excellent value, its a nice frame to use for fpv as well, if you don't use legs you can do some extremely fast low altitude flying.. has plenty of grunt with the 300 watt 3530 1100kv

 

[nechaus]

here are two of my older builds..

One is the 450mm and the other I think is 600mm or 700mm I cannot remember now, On the big one I was running 14 inch props, 5s, 390kv motors...

It was quite scary to use, the props I was using are loud as well.. It's not something I at all enjoyed playing with in my backyard, But if you want that 30-40 minute hover time, I reckon these motors are good, But they are difficult to get working due to the hi pole count and low kv, I found with some ESC's full throttle and the system would loose sync and fall out of the sky, I tried some DJI controllers from a friend and they works quite well, But I have just left this project for another day until I can find a good place to use it. Normally I need a break from fpv about every 10-15 minutes to give my eyes a rest and stop the adrenalin lol.. Just try think about it all on what you want it for, I ended up wasting a bit of cash going crazy with it all and thinking bigger is better, Now im in love with smaller systems for general video and fpv flight.. Me and my friends use a couple of small quads and made a virtual race track around the house...

And just remember bad shit does happen with this stuff, if for some reason you loose control and a fail safe does not work on a big ass machine, even if you are not religious like myself, You will start praying if a big machine looses it and could cause serious damage to someone or something, With a mini quadcopter or a 450mmish size its a lot less anxiety..

Anyway ill stop harping on lol, Just be safe.

 

[nechaus]

best example I can think of...

You end up using a multiwii system, you do not enable fail safe so if signal is lost, It will not land or cutout..

You fly up hi, Transmission is lost, Now the multiwii will continue to hold the existing throttle position due to no fail safe setup.
the multirotor keeps on flying up, a commercial airliner is flying past, you smash your 2kg multitoro into the turbine.
Because its an endurance machine your multirotor can reach extremely hi altitudes with stability.
Plane blows up and the multirotor just killed 120 people, you go to jail and your life is ruined.

I know this is extreme... But it is possible for this to happen even with multiple fail safes enabled.
This is the stuff I think of after watching youtube fails

I once lost control of my machine/no signal in the early days with no fail safes.. and the quad kept on flying forward into my house...
Always test a fail safe routine.

also I had came across the BUG in multiwii version 2.3beta nav version altitude hold would not turn off... Now if the sensor all the sudden went crazy, or not calibrated, it could of just continued to fly up and the only chance I would of had to bring it down would be to run it into a wall or tree as quickly as possible.. luckily I had RTL setup on a switch, I did not use it to return home but because I was flicking it on and off I was able to cause it to drop and then hit a fence, Motors never wanted to cut out even tho throttle was at lowest position. Lucky for me no one was hurt, It landed in someone yard just on the inside of the fence, facing down, it left 4 nice big cut marks in the mans lawn, Nothing broke just my confidence lol.. But once I read about why it happened because I did not want to fly it again until that was figured out. I pretty much stopped using altitude hold at hi altitudes with that particular software version...


Don't let this put you off mutltiwii... Dji has its fair share of bugs and errors and all that...and multiwii 2.3 official has not failed me in over maybe 100 flights...

 

[Deanwvu]

I've been messing around with the multicopter calculator that you used for screenshots in an early post on this thread, and it is telling me that the 2830 (210 watt 1100kv) will be the most efficient for long flights and still have a good payload.

I'll post screenshots tomorrow.

 

[nechaus]

I did try those size motors...
But I found they got warmer than what I would have liked... I tried 1450kv with 8inch props, and 1100kv with 10 inch props...orange turnigys
They will all work tho.. I even tried the hobbyking donkey motors that have bushing no bearings, they also work and are about 270 watts or something. they are hard to mount, I used zip ties and it worked. I ended up giving them to a friend.


The actual DJI f550.. what ever the model is uses those smaller motors...
they also get very warm, in some circumstances to hot to touch... but they work