Rad Power Batteries are now UL certified and fully potted

Are the new batteries handcuffed to their controllers such that you can't swap out either one for a generic version without making problems? Because if that's the deal, it's no deal at all.

Mortgaging myself to someone else's bad ideas is not what attracted me to e-bikes originally.
 
slaphappygamer said:
Potted batteries, very rad!
Click to expand...
For me, repairable and rebuildable batteries are way more rad than ones that are glued into a 100% disposable lump. But for folks who have no intention of ever repairing anything, sure.
 
Since they can fit older models, I would figure there's no proprietary command bus,

I've heard a few comments about Luna's potted batteries developing broken connects. What about the safety valve for venting a pack? Seems to me a few epoxy jacket is going to make the cell go thermal, and 2000 degrees C will probably melt epoxy.

Well, it does pass UL tests, as do nonpotted packs, and since UL won't let the public know (withouut paying for the standards) what the tests actually are, their mystery continues. Maybe the epoxy makes a puncture test impossible,

Nonetheless, a good move to get on the right side of the regulators.
 
Last edited:
Chalo said:
For me, repairable and rebuildable batteries are way more rad than ones that are glued into a 100% disposable lump. But for folks who have no intention of ever repairing anything, sure.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately NYC, SF, and now LA have banned battery rebuild services which is the dumbest possible piece of legislation in ages. So they might as well pot the cells now, since repairs are now a crime.

As far as the potted Luna wolf pack, mine never had any problems. The potting is a thermal compound so getting your cells to the point of thermal runaway would be pretty damn hard. The cells are also individually fused.
 
docw009 said:
Well, it does pass UL tests, as do nonpotted packs, and since UL won't let the public know (withouut paying for the standards) what the tests actually are, their mystery continues. Maybe the epoxy makes a puncture test impossible,
Click to expand...
UL 2271 does not have any puncture or thermal runaway test. It is mostly electrical and software tests to ensure the BMS functions properly. The mechanical tests are shock and vibration (similar to UN 38.3), drop, and a few others. The ingress protection tests are very lax. There are also a bunch of requirements to ensure that all of the materials are from suppliers that are also paying UL.

Happy to see Rad committing to safer batteries, though! Regarding repairability, I have a feeling that of all of the old packs that failed, very few were repaired. Probably straight to the recycler. Not that this is good, its just reality. Few people doing repairs are knowledgeable and careful enough to send out a safe pack.
Also, potting packs makes them much less likely to fail and need repair.
 
PaulD said:
Few people doing repairs are knowledgeable and careful enough to send out a safe pack.
Click to expand...
I'd venture that most people on this forum doing repairs on batteries (their own or others) are not doing them right--many seem to start by recharging low cells either individually or bypassing a BMS that has shutoff the pack because of cell problems, instead of replacing the problematic cells/groups. (even when advised that this is not the safest way to fix the pack).
 
And the batteries are up for preorder

www.radpowerbikes.com

Safe Shield™ Advanced External Battery

Rad's Safe Shield Advanced Batteries are UL Certified to UL 2271 and feature thermal-resistant technology to ensure industry-leading safety, whether it’s on or off your ebike.
www.radpowerbikes.com www.radpowerbikes.com
 
Why would anyone pot a battery ? In all batteries I've seen, repaired, corrosion problems occur wayyyy after one of the cells, the bms ... or just the plug holder failed!
 
I'm convinced by Grin's testing, He found fiber reinforced epoxy was needed,
endless-sphere.com

Potting Batteries, Thoughts and Experiments

Background. Last year we had a number of custom batteries made up in a flat 10s X 1p cell layout arrangement for 2 reasons. #1 is so that we'd have convenient low profile 18650 batteries for mounting on powered skateboard projects (see here...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com

He also has a video, The cells still managed to vent and the heat melted thru the epoxy so the toxic smoke got out.
 
I had a very early potted Luna battery, and it has functioned perfectly. The main value of the potting (AFAIK) was it prevented thermal progression. It's kind of a moot point since I haven't seen Luna's batteries for sale (except for their X1 &Z1 or whatever bikes) in several years.
 
I don’t think it makes sense to debate the value of UL certification now that the 3 largest US cities are requiring it. It is now just a matter of compliance. The fire chiefs told the politicians they wanted UL certification, and the rest is legislative history.
 
Potting the battery could possibly save a life. The curious/uninformed won’t be able to open the battery and bypass the bms.

A recycle program would be nice to see. When your battery dies, or whatever, you can “send it in” for credit towards a new battery.
 
docw009 said:
I'm convinced by Grin's testing, He found fiber reinforced epoxy was needed,
endless-sphere.com

Potting Batteries, Thoughts and Experiments

Background. Last year we had a number of custom batteries made up in a flat 10s X 1p cell layout arrangement for 2 reasons. #1 is so that we'd have convenient low profile 18650 batteries for mounting on powered skateboard projects (see here...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com

He also has a video, The cells still managed to vent and the heat melted thru the epoxy so the toxic smoke got out.
Click to expand...
That is impressive. The magic smoke escaped, but no flames, no fireball, no explosion.

The main downside I see is that potting does add noticeable weight to the battery pack.
 
There is a video of a test of the potted Grintech LiGo battery, done at the previous old warehouse/store/factory and had flir/temp data. Everyone was quite impressed with the outcome. There might be a mention of it in the forum, I couldnt find it on youtbe.
 
I had my first critical failure of a cel during testing.

I had picked up a set of e-fest batts, they sat in the drawer for like 6 months (First rounds of Chemo were rough, and my buddy needed a lot of help) In any case.. I have a circuit board with a clip in holder for 4 pcs wired up to to my first test piece. 14" of surface mount LED. under counter lighting pulling an astonished 30-50 ma.

Plugged it in, set it off and I was in the ffice with is.. 6 hrs later all but one light on the LED strip goes dark.. weird, Unpluge, nothing is scorched.. Except the lights were.. meter it and.. no continuity through the chassis (weird) and rating 1.14v

I habitually use a control group. It is a group of IMR batts that are like 10 years old, they are iirc 2000mah and are over 7 years old, so a portion of that has gone to old age.

I forgot to unplug it when I bailed out of the office, 30-45 minutes after the test was supposed to stop, the motion sensing overhead decides the room is empty.. a bit after that I go to see what ht elight is.. other stick sill glowing memory some 7 hours into the test.

O now I have a young dead cel.. need to look up the procedure to bring it back into safe voltage.
 
2old said:
I had a very early potted Luna battery, and it has functioned perfectly. The main value of the potting (AFAIK) was it prevented thermal progression. It's kind of a moot point since I haven't seen Luna's batteries for sale (except for their X1 &Z1 or whatever bikes) in several years.
Click to expand...
I have one of those batteries under the boom of an HPV FS26 powering a Phaserunner and MAC 10T @ 40A.
I fabricated a locking slide mount rattle free and stout yet only 340 grams.
Its gets stressed. 180 Charge Cycles so far still at 97% State of Health. Its a keeper. And looks really cool - clear case.
Impressed by the fire retardancy of potting.
 

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My Luna Wolf Pack sits in a custom cradle, and replaced a “silver fish” style battery.
 
Just for the sake of discussion, I thought I would share an example of premium cells used in a shitty battery pack build:

IMG_6782.jpeg

This pack was custom built for me by OMNI ESK8 utilizing Samsung 50S in 2P. The 50S is one of the few cells that can comfortably power a BBSHD in only 2 parallel.

IMG_6786.jpeg

These could be fake, but I specifically paid for and requested the Samsung 50S, so there is a decent chance they are authentic. It would be nice to see fish paper between those negative cans and the positive wires here.

IMG_6784.jpeg

But when we move onto the BMS, we find that the BMS specs have been intentionally scratched off with a sharp object!

IMG_6785.jpeg

And WTF?! The temperature probe is gone! They removed the temperature probe?

IMG_6783.jpeg

And the 30A series connections are a single nickle strip. All 30A through a single strip.
There is a technique for slim packs:

stackedNickel.png

But I guess the battery tech didn't know they could stack the nickel.

So this is an example of an awesome cell in a very mediocre pack. And there are a lot super shitty packs out there. The previous battery I took apart from affordableebikes.ca had an underspec'd BMS and chinese cells when I was told it had LG cells.

There is is just a lot of poorly built crap out there. The danger isn't just the lithium cells. It's the mediocrity... all the slop and mediocrity oozing all throughout the ebike industry, and especially in the DIY ebike cottage industries.
 
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