Rad Power Batteries are now UL certified and fully potted
- Thread starter nervagon
- Start date
Chalo
100 TW
Are the new batteries handcuffed to their controllers such that you can't swap out either one for a generic version without making problems? Because if that's the deal, it's no deal at all.
Mortgaging myself to someone else's bad ideas is not what attracted me to e-bikes originally.
Mortgaging myself to someone else's bad ideas is not what attracted me to e-bikes originally.
slaphappygamer
10 kW
Potted batteries, very rad!
Chalo
100 TW
For me, repairable and rebuildable batteries are way more rad than ones that are glued into a 100% disposable lump. But for folks who have no intention of ever repairing anything, sure.
docw009
10 MW
Since they can fit older models, I would figure there's no proprietary command bus,
I've heard a few comments about Luna's potted batteries developing broken connects. What about the safety valve for venting a pack? Seems to me a few epoxy jacket is going to make the cell go thermal, and 2000 degrees C will probably melt epoxy.
Well, it does pass UL tests, as do nonpotted packs, and since UL won't let the public know (withouut paying for the standards) what the tests actually are, their mystery continues. Maybe the epoxy makes a puncture test impossible,
Nonetheless, a good move to get on the right side of the regulators.
I've heard a few comments about Luna's potted batteries developing broken connects. What about the safety valve for venting a pack? Seems to me a few epoxy jacket is going to make the cell go thermal, and 2000 degrees C will probably melt epoxy.
Well, it does pass UL tests, as do nonpotted packs, and since UL won't let the public know (withouut paying for the standards) what the tests actually are, their mystery continues. Maybe the epoxy makes a puncture test impossible,
Nonetheless, a good move to get on the right side of the regulators.
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PaulD
1 kW
UL 2271 does not have any puncture or thermal runaway test. It is mostly electrical and software tests to ensure the BMS functions properly. The mechanical tests are shock and vibration (similar to UN 38.3), drop, and a few others. The ingress protection tests are very lax. There are also a bunch of requirements to ensure that all of the materials are from suppliers that are also paying UL.
Happy to see Rad committing to safer batteries, though! Regarding repairability, I have a feeling that of all of the old packs that failed, very few were repaired. Probably straight to the recycler. Not that this is good, its just reality. Few people doing repairs are knowledgeable and careful enough to send out a safe pack.
Also, potting packs makes them much less likely to fail and need repair.
I'd venture that most people on this forum doing repairs on batteries (their own or others) are not doing them right--many seem to start by recharging low cells either individually or bypassing a BMS that has shutoff the pack because of cell problems, instead of replacing the problematic cells/groups. (even when advised that this is not the safest way to fix the pack).
docw009
10 MW
I'm convinced by Grin's testing, He found fiber reinforced epoxy was needed,
endless-sphere.com
He also has a video, The cells still managed to vent and the heat melted thru the epoxy so the toxic smoke got out.
Potting Batteries, Thoughts and Experiments
Background. Last year we had a number of custom batteries made up in a flat 10s X 1p cell layout arrangement for 2 reasons. #1 is so that we'd have convenient low profile 18650 batteries for mounting on powered skateboard projects (see here...
endless-sphere.com
He also has a video, The cells still managed to vent and the heat melted thru the epoxy so the toxic smoke got out.
I had a very early potted Luna battery, and it has functioned perfectly. The main value of the potting (AFAIK) was it prevented thermal progression. It's kind of a moot point since I haven't seen Luna's batteries for sale (except for their X1 &Z1 or whatever bikes) in several years.
slaphappygamer
10 kW
Potting the battery could possibly save a life. The curious/uninformed won’t be able to open the battery and bypass the bms.
A recycle program would be nice to see. When your battery dies, or whatever, you can “send it in” for credit towards a new battery.
A recycle program would be nice to see. When your battery dies, or whatever, you can “send it in” for credit towards a new battery.
There is a video of a test of the potted Grintech LiGo battery, done at the previous old warehouse/store/factory and had flir/temp data. Everyone was quite impressed with the outcome. There might be a mention of it in the forum, I couldnt find it on youtbe.
DaLanMan
10 kW
I had my first critical failure of a cel during testing.
I had picked up a set of e-fest batts, they sat in the drawer for like 6 months (First rounds of Chemo were rough, and my buddy needed a lot of help) In any case.. I have a circuit board with a clip in holder for 4 pcs wired up to to my first test piece. 14" of surface mount LED. under counter lighting pulling an astonished 30-50 ma.
Plugged it in, set it off and I was in the ffice with is.. 6 hrs later all but one light on the LED strip goes dark.. weird, Unpluge, nothing is scorched.. Except the lights were.. meter it and.. no continuity through the chassis (weird) and rating 1.14v
I habitually use a control group. It is a group of IMR batts that are like 10 years old, they are iirc 2000mah and are over 7 years old, so a portion of that has gone to old age.
I forgot to unplug it when I bailed out of the office, 30-45 minutes after the test was supposed to stop, the motion sensing overhead decides the room is empty.. a bit after that I go to see what ht elight is.. other stick sill glowing memory some 7 hours into the test.
O now I have a young dead cel.. need to look up the procedure to bring it back into safe voltage.
I had picked up a set of e-fest batts, they sat in the drawer for like 6 months (First rounds of Chemo were rough, and my buddy needed a lot of help) In any case.. I have a circuit board with a clip in holder for 4 pcs wired up to to my first test piece. 14" of surface mount LED. under counter lighting pulling an astonished 30-50 ma.
Plugged it in, set it off and I was in the ffice with is.. 6 hrs later all but one light on the LED strip goes dark.. weird, Unpluge, nothing is scorched.. Except the lights were.. meter it and.. no continuity through the chassis (weird) and rating 1.14v
I habitually use a control group. It is a group of IMR batts that are like 10 years old, they are iirc 2000mah and are over 7 years old, so a portion of that has gone to old age.
I forgot to unplug it when I bailed out of the office, 30-45 minutes after the test was supposed to stop, the motion sensing overhead decides the room is empty.. a bit after that I go to see what ht elight is.. other stick sill glowing memory some 7 hours into the test.
O now I have a young dead cel.. need to look up the procedure to bring it back into safe voltage.
nicobie
100 MW
I'm surprised that Luke (LFP) says he thinks potted batteries are the best way to go. Luna seems the only other bike shop to do it. Maybe they have gotten better, but I would never buy from them.
Alas ..
Rad Power Bikes unveils 4 new e-bikes & faster speeds in biggest shakeup yet
Rad Power Bikes, the Seattle-based electric bike maker that spent years at the top of the US e-bike sellers list,...electrek.co
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I have one of those batteries under the boom of an HPV FS26 powering a Phaserunner and MAC 10T @ 40A.
I fabricated a locking slide mount rattle free and stout yet only 340 grams.
Its gets stressed. 180 Charge Cycles so far still at 97% State of Health. Its a keeper. And looks really cool - clear case.
Impressed by the fire retardancy of potting.
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gromike
10 kW
I guess you don't know them until you take them apart. Maybe good for relationships too!
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