E-racer
1 kW
Wire is here! I cant wait to give this a go this weekend.
Re-wind of a turnigy 80/100 (Now-tutorial w/Video)
- Thread starter Thud
- Start date
Ludo91
100 W
Hi guys i`m taking my motor apart to rewind it 
I need an info (the reason i need it is that my motor has a a pinion on it that i can`t manage to take away anymore lol):
May someone measure the distance between the center of one of the holes where those black bolts that secure the front plate to the stator are bolted in and the center of nearest "mounting hole"? (i marked the two hole in this image, the motor is not the same but the concept is)
I need an info (the reason i need it is that my motor has a a pinion on it that i can`t manage to take away anymore lol):May someone measure the distance between the center of one of the holes where those black bolts that secure the front plate to the stator are bolted in and the center of nearest "mounting hole"? (i marked the two hole in this image, the motor is not the same but the concept is)
Attachments
Ludo91
100 W
I`m very close to starting the rewinding job (using same wire as Thud, tnks again for this awesome knowledge-sharing thread)
Last question: I want to make my motor with same specs as original 180 Kv..... SO i have to wire is as a 6T DELTA, RIGHT??
tnks :wink:
Last question: I want to make my motor with same specs as original 180 Kv..... SO i have to wire is as a 6T DELTA, RIGHT??
tnks :wink:
Thud
1 MW
That will get you started Ludo91.
depending if you use single wire or double wire to wind will affect the Kv some...but 6T will be right in the zone.
Glad to see some one getting use from my experiances.
-T
depending if you use single wire or double wire to wind will affect the Kv some...but 6T will be right in the zone.
Glad to see some one getting use from my experiances.
-T
Ludo91
100 W
I`m glad that you posted you experience, I have rewounded some smaller motor but i was scared of doing so with such a huge thing, this thread got me started
My wire, awg 13,5 ,is now on its way from UK to Italy! I already took the motor apart and hope to get the rewinding done right after half semester university exams are gone :lol:
My wire, awg 13,5 ,is now on its way from UK to Italy! I already took the motor apart and hope to get the rewinding done right after half semester university exams are gone :lol:
Bazaki
10 kW
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Messages
- 639
Hey People,
I also have one of those Turnigy motors here, I want to use it for a underwaterscooter.
But the RPM/Volt is 130kv.
A propellor under water can not run faster then 3000 rpm I believe otherwise it will cavitate.
So I can only use a 6s lipo.
Would it be possible to rewind the Turnigy to a lower KV ?
Like 70 Kv or close ?
I also have one of those Turnigy motors here, I want to use it for a underwaterscooter.
But the RPM/Volt is 130kv.
A propellor under water can not run faster then 3000 rpm I believe otherwise it will cavitate.
So I can only use a 6s lipo.
Would it be possible to rewind the Turnigy to a lower KV ?
Like 70 Kv or close ?
Thud
1 MW
Bazaki, Yes.
You can re-wind this motor with 16-AWG (1.3mm) wire with a single strand, 14 turns per tooth.
Terminated Wye will give you a Kv of near 45ish
Terminated Delta will get you in the 75 Kv range.
I have one wound with 14g (1.6mm) wire in 10 turns terminated WYE that measures 73-Kv.
Good Luck.
-T
You can re-wind this motor with 16-AWG (1.3mm) wire with a single strand, 14 turns per tooth.
Terminated Wye will give you a Kv of near 45ish
Terminated Delta will get you in the 75 Kv range.
I have one wound with 14g (1.6mm) wire in 10 turns terminated WYE that measures 73-Kv.
Good Luck.
-T
RWP
1 kW
Hey Thud,
Thanks for leading the way for many of us!
Any chance you could post your HXT rewinds with wire size, termination and approximate Kv?
Be really helpful to me and I would guess a lot of us thinking of rewinding these motors.
I have one phase wound on the 80x85 and found that wrapping the wire around an approx 1" dowel allows me to save my hands but it's hard on the stator and have chipped the green coating in a number of places. I will go back and add epoxy to protect these areas.
Also using a beeping ohm meeter is essential as a number of times I heard it go off and I adjusted the wind. Should I start with the Kapton tape?
Oh, any guidelines on length of wire for single and double wire (14 & 16 gauge) rewinds for the 80x85 and 80x100 motors?
Cheers,
Roy
Thanks for leading the way for many of us!
Any chance you could post your HXT rewinds with wire size, termination and approximate Kv?
Be really helpful to me and I would guess a lot of us thinking of rewinding these motors.
I have one phase wound on the 80x85 and found that wrapping the wire around an approx 1" dowel allows me to save my hands but it's hard on the stator and have chipped the green coating in a number of places. I will go back and add epoxy to protect these areas.
Also using a beeping ohm meeter is essential as a number of times I heard it go off and I adjusted the wind. Should I start with the Kapton tape?
Oh, any guidelines on length of wire for single and double wire (14 & 16 gauge) rewinds for the 80x85 and 80x100 motors?
Cheers,
Roy
Bazaki
10 kW
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Messages
- 639
Thud,
What if I order a new turnigy and send it to your adress and you rewind it for me ?
You name your price and maybe it is interessting to both of us.
Or I send you the money so your order a Turnigy.
Maybe other people are also interessted.
I didn't read all pages of this topic, but with the rewinding the motor works just fine ? A rewind to 75 kv can handle 200 A for a short time ?
What if I order a new turnigy and send it to your adress and you rewind it for me ?
You name your price and maybe it is interessting to both of us.
Or I send you the money so your order a Turnigy.
Maybe other people are also interessted.
I didn't read all pages of this topic, but with the rewinding the motor works just fine ? A rewind to 75 kv can handle 200 A for a short time ?
Thud
1 MW
RWP:
I will add this to the OP for quick reference..
I will add this to the OP for quick reference..
RWP
1 kW
THANK YOU! FANTASTIC - This is exactly what I was looking for. Now going back and fourth through your images and working Drive Calculator - it's all coming together.
For anyone wanting to try this; watch what happens to the "Max burst current" when you change the "Number of parallel wires"
all the while watching the "Copper weight...". Again comparing the "Number of turns chosen" with Jeremy's chart to get the kv. It's a bunch of trade-offs and how much wire you think you can actually wind onto the stator. Drive Calculator, and Thuds images, tell you how long the wire needs to be. I get the rest is real experience.
I had a bit of trouble at first working with Drive Calculator. Here's what I learned:
To set the numbers you type into input fields and update the calculations - click into the text area under the drop-down.
You must click "New" to save a new config. Changing the name and then saving overwrites the old config.
Sorry if all this is self evident.
Roy
For anyone wanting to try this; watch what happens to the "Max burst current" when you change the "Number of parallel wires"
all the while watching the "Copper weight...". Again comparing the "Number of turns chosen" with Jeremy's chart to get the kv. It's a bunch of trade-offs and how much wire you think you can actually wind onto the stator. Drive Calculator, and Thuds images, tell you how long the wire needs to be. I get the rest is real experience.I had a bit of trouble at first working with Drive Calculator. Here's what I learned:
To set the numbers you type into input fields and update the calculations - click into the text area under the drop-down.
You must click "New" to save a new config. Changing the name and then saving overwrites the old config.
Sorry if all this is self evident.
Roy
Enjoyed reading this thread Thudster. My thought for cooling would be a hollow shaft, more useful for Astro inrunners yet why would we have
any motors without hollow shafts? The surface exposure to air would be greater and strategically located near the center motor mass where heat
dissipation is needed most. Could be easy to run a coolant thru the heart of our motors.
https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=352
any motors without hollow shafts? The surface exposure to air would be greater and strategically located near the center motor mass where heat
dissipation is needed most. Could be easy to run a coolant thru the heart of our motors.
https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=352
Ludo91
100 W
O k want to make it big and insane.... I`ll rewind it 5T, and then make an external switch with some power relais to commute between delta and star that means i`ll have 212 rpm/v in delta and 122 when i switch to Y.. So on my choiche Ill have insane speeds or uphillgoing torque. Sounds good!
that means i`ll have 212 rpm/v in delta and 122 when i switch to Y.. So on my choiche Ill have insane speeds or uphillgoing torque. Sounds good!
Ludo91
100 W
Thanks to all the people who contribute to this forum, I was able to successfully rewind and replace the bearings in my first motor. It was a stock 80-100 with a shorted winding and crappy bearings. The rewind scheme is a modest one with 9 turns of No. 14 AWG in WYE configuration. I plan to use it as a test motor for the development of a BLDC controller. My hope is that its relatively high phase resistance (~38 milliohms) will prevent it from becoming a 'controller-killer' right out of the gate. I currently have it running sensorless but will soon install internal hall sensors, at 120 degrees, and give that a go. I just gotta make sure that upon reassembly I don't get my hands pinched for the third time - I seem to forget how strong the magnets are... Some pictures and a video are attached. Thanks again to all who have shared their experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccmr3ix8ebk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccmr3ix8ebk
Attachments
AussieJester
1 TW
Congrats on the succesful rewind something i shall also be attempting very very soon myself. I also
noticed the thick chunk of Carbon Fiber you have the motor bolted too, got some info on suppliers
for us ole' buddy ole' pal heheWould LOVE to get my hands on some 5-10mm thick CF sheet
cheap, i have a wild project in mind that would be well suited to using CF for the suspension.
KiM
noticed the thick chunk of Carbon Fiber you have the motor bolted too, got some info on suppliers
for us ole' buddy ole' pal hehe
Would LOVE to get my hands on some 5-10mm thick CF sheetcheap, i have a wild project in mind that would be well suited to using CF for the suspension.
KiM
liveforphysics
100 TW
Nice job!
Your controller will be SOOOOOO much happier with 28mOhm and a bunch more inductance.
Your controller will be SOOOOOO much happier with 28mOhm and a bunch more inductance.
Ludo91
100 W
I failed rewinding it, bad job.
Faileure happens when you are in real challenging thing, so no worries.
But I dont hae enough wire to rewind it 6t with double wire, and that thask is probably too hard for me.
Is there a big differnce in KV if I wind it 6t SINGLE wire (13 AWG, very big)???
tnks so much
Faileure happens when you are in real challenging thing, so no worries.
But I dont hae enough wire to rewind it 6t with double wire, and that thask is probably too hard for me.
Is there a big differnce in KV if I wind it 6t SINGLE wire (13 AWG, very big)???
tnks so much
Danny Mayes
1 kW
Hey Thud,
Back on page 7 you mentioned -
and
Any advancements or details you can share about either or??? Keen as to see some details of your 3 speed...
Cheers,
D
Back on page 7 you mentioned -
Thud said:
and
Thud said:
Any advancements or details you can share about either or??? Keen as to see some details of your 3 speed...
Cheers,
D
Thud
1 MW
Hi Danny,
The 3-speed is all drawn up & ready to build...just need time & motivation. As far as the small magnet rings, I kinda let that fall to the side as more complex than required. I am getting great results fitting internal hall sensors on the big motors.
Here is another example I wound for a fellow member. I been picking away at it for a week or 2 when I have time to spare (busy season at work means 10-hr days)
This is a 12-turn single 14g terminated in wye...Kv=55
& this is an imbeded hall sensor in 350deg epoxy
& a short video of it being tested.
this motor is going to power a BB-drive set up...low KV was the desire. it should be a tank.
[youtube]DpM2McmM1ms[/youtube]
The 3-speed is all drawn up & ready to build...just need time & motivation. As far as the small magnet rings, I kinda let that fall to the side as more complex than required. I am getting great results fitting internal hall sensors on the big motors.
Here is another example I wound for a fellow member. I been picking away at it for a week or 2 when I have time to spare (busy season at work means 10-hr days)
This is a 12-turn single 14g terminated in wye...Kv=55
& this is an imbeded hall sensor in 350deg epoxy
& a short video of it being tested.
this motor is going to power a BB-drive set up...low KV was the desire. it should be a tank.
[youtube]DpM2McmM1ms[/youtube]
Danny Mayes
1 kW
God that is sexy. That is such a nice wind. Your totally on to something there with that 12 turn single for 55kv.
The bell and bearings aren't screaming at you their distaste for the speed they are going. Instead you got super smooth low end speed and boatloads of torque. That's the winding i like the most so far It sounds so nice
Did you spin the motor up and file/sand that epoxy. Nice craftsmanship there. Very tidy. 8)
How was the single wire to wind compared to the 2 wire versions?
And, God damit, very exciting news about the 3 speed.
Can ya sneaky peak me some zipped dxf's??
D
The bell and bearings aren't screaming at you their distaste for the speed they are going. Instead you got super smooth low end speed and boatloads of torque. That's the winding i like the most so far
It sounds so nice Did you spin the motor up and file/sand that epoxy. Nice craftsmanship there. Very tidy. 8)
How was the single wire to wind compared to the 2 wire versions?
And, God damit, very exciting news about the 3 speed.
Can ya sneaky peak me some zipped dxf's??
D
Hey thud.... I think I have some reason for the internal halls to work better. Biff explained that a proper magnet ring will take just more flux then the magnets inside produce in that direction. If I understood him correctly.. He told me to find how thick the ring needs to be to make the outside not attract any metal then go just a touch thicker! So Having said that most out runners let some magnetism through but it will be a weaker signal then inside for sure!
etard
100 kW
Brilliant Thud, that wind looks very clean! You're not putting the 55KV motor on a 3 speed tranny are you? For some reason, that makes very little sense to me. Unless you plan on powering that motor on like 100 volts?
Anybody ever tell you, you have too many projects Thud? :lol:
Arlo,
Can you rephrase that in English please man? :wink:
Anybody ever tell you, you have too many projects Thud? :lol:
Arlo,
Can you rephrase that in English please man? :wink:
Thud
1 MW
Arlo,
Yes, I understand about the the flux control of the can on the outrunners. The original hope was to be able to run hall sensors reliably from the outside, but the best laid plans oft gang aglay. :wink: the internal mounting is more work, but dead reliable.
That particular wind will require about 170 volts to realise maximum power output. but will be cold running work horse on 48V with reasonable reduction to drive a bike crank.
All my bench testing shows these motors really don't like to spin above 9500-RPMs. There is a huge spike in the heat generated at that point I can only assume is Iron loss/core loss. Doesn't seem to matter the wind...
For those thinking about winding motors it is really not too difficult. but here is how it goes.
single wire=easy
double wire= 3 times as difficult.
triple wire=5 times as much trouble (& prolly a neglagable gain in performance at this scale, just use bigger wire)
(I get to frustraighted to attempt any more than that....the larger the motor the more forgiving it is also)
Danny-one of these evenings I'll organise the 3-speed drawing & detail it & dxf-it to you. Right now its a series of concept sketching that prolly only would make sense to me. (its also all in 2D but I bet you could fix that LOL) It really was intended for a larger motor (or maybe multiple motors )
Yes, I understand about the the flux control of the can on the outrunners. The original hope was to be able to run hall sensors reliably from the outside, but the best laid plans oft gang aglay. :wink: the internal mounting is more work, but dead reliable.
That particular wind will require about 170 volts to realise maximum power output.
but will be cold running work horse on 48V with reasonable reduction to drive a bike crank.All my bench testing shows these motors really don't like to spin above 9500-RPMs. There is a huge spike in the heat generated at that point I can only assume is Iron loss/core loss. Doesn't seem to matter the wind...
For those thinking about winding motors it is really not too difficult. but here is how it goes.
single wire=easy
double wire= 3 times as difficult.
triple wire=5 times as much trouble (& prolly a neglagable gain in performance at this scale, just use bigger wire)
(I get to frustraighted to attempt any more than that....the larger the motor the more forgiving it is also)
Danny-one of these evenings I'll organise the 3-speed drawing & detail it & dxf-it to you. Right now its a series of concept sketching that prolly only would make sense to me. (its also all in 2D but I bet you could fix that LOL) It really was intended for a larger motor (or maybe multiple motors
)
Danny Mayes
1 kW
Cool, thanks When you can.
Yesterday i was spinning thoughts of multi motor set ups...
(I hope iv'e inbedded this img correctly)
The idea of multi motors each with 12 x 75 volt fet controllers is really apppealing. detune each by 75% and you got a locomotive
Hows about an inline 4, early indian styles. All in "board racers" of course 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
When you can.Yesterday i was spinning thoughts of multi motor set ups...
(I hope iv'e inbedded this img correctly)
The idea of multi motors each with 12 x 75 volt fet controllers is really apppealing. detune each by 75% and you got a locomotive
Hows about an inline 4, early indian styles. All in "board racers" of course 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
