Schwalbe Big Apples are not great

[docnjoj]

Just had our 3rd flat in 2 weeks since changing to Big Apples and Schwalbe tubes. Tubes seem to develop the leaks and show scuff marks on them. one may have been the valve. Back to Walmart tubes and Maxxis tires. I will write to Schwalbe too. Bad news.
otherDoc

 

[r3volved]

My big apple drive tire (26x2.15) is holding up well on nearly 1000km this summer. I'm not using their tubes though just generic LBS tube

 

[Jonathan in Hiram]

I wore a 20" Big Apple down to the cords and never had a flat on the bent in my sig, over 4,000 miles with about 80% of the ebike weight on that rear tire, the 16" on the front still looks new and hasn't had a flat either.

 

[docnjoj]

I've used Big Apples before with no trouble but these 20" tires and tubes seem problematic. Tubes mostly gave us the flats. No visible puncture.
otherDoc

 

[aroundqube]

Draw a line on the sidewall of the tire and rim. Check to see that they stay lined up,or indicate that there is movement of the tire on the rim.

 

[teklektik]

Actually - it may be your tube and mounting technique - not the tire.

My Fat Frank 2.35s are pretty much the same balloon configuration as Big Apples and wear well without any unusual puncture vulnerabilities. That said, I had a number of annoying valve-related flats with Schwalbe tubes because of the valve separating from the tube. Switching to Maxxis Freeride 26x2.20/2.50 tubes and leaving off the knurled valve retaining ring solved the issue.

The Maxxis valve attachment is visually much more rugged than the Schwalbe and leaving off the ring allows the valve stem to pull into the rim as deeply as needed. Well - actually, to make tire mounting less of a zoo I leave the ring on but pretty much unscrewed. When I need to fiddle with the valve, I spin the ring down to the rim so I have something rigid to push against - then loosen it after the pressure test/fill-up.

Wider rims would mitigate this issue but my Sun Mammoth rims present a kind of funky situation for the large balloon tire cross section - the tube does not actually squish up against the inside of the rim as shown below. At reduced balloon pressures, there is a gap between 2 and 5 below so the valve/tube bond is stretched and under constant stress if the ring is run down (too far). So - a tougher bond and allowing the valve stem to float did the job...

( image from Wikipedia - balloon tire has larger cross-section )

 

[docnjoj]

Thanks, Tek, for that info on the Schwalbe tubes. We are on our 4th tube in 2 weeks. Since I ran out of Schwalbe tubes (I don't reuse tubes prolly cause I never fix them right) and this one is a Walmart. Hopefully the tire will be OK, but I need to check it carefully, since it was run flat for about 2 miles after our 3rd tube would not hold CO2.
otherDoc
Oh yeah, my wife does all the tire changes since she is simply so much faster and better than me at it. Imagine that. She gets them right!

 

[mvly]

Big apple do wear out faster if they are on the rear. I put mine in the front for grip and they will last probably over 20K miles. I have 7K miles on them already and they look bearly worn.

I run maxxis hookworm on the rear and they last around 4-5K miles on my setup.

For the puncture proof thing, get inner lining, thicker tube with slime inside of possible and use double rim tape. Also make sure you put them on properly. Sometime there can be a pinch on the tube and that can be the cause of the flats.

 

[neptronix]

Pretty flimsy tire unless you buy the 'plus' model.

I have one in 24 inch. As soon as i saw it, i knew what it was going to be like. Never used it..

My pair of schwalbe marathon plus's on the other hand, have probably had easily 1000 goatheads stab them over the ages... not a single flat!

 

[docnjoj]

Also make sure you put them on properly. Sometime there can be a pinch on the tube and that can be the cause of the flats.

Pretty sure they are on OK. Have 32mm rims and good rim strips. None of my wife's flats were punctures, all from either valve tears or bad tubes. We ride today with a Walmart tube and we shall see.
otherDoc

 

[chas58]

For the puncture proof thing, get inner lining, thicker tube with slime inside of possible and use double rim tape. Also make sure you put them on properly. Sometime there can be a pinch on the tube and that can be the cause of the flats.

Have you tried these ideas? Curious as to your experience.
• Inner lining: mine abraded against the tube and gave me a flat. Kind of shocking to me as I bought them to prevent flats
• Thicker tube doesn’t do too much to prevent flats, but probably holds air better.
• Slime is messy stuff, but it may slow a leak enough to get you home. Not sure it really makes it puncture proof though.
• Double rim tape. I’ve tried that. Doesn’t hurt. But if I put the rim tape on properly, it works fine. I like the cloth tape best.
• Pinching the tube on installation is a good way to get multiple flats, you are right about that!

For the OP, it doesn’t sound like it is the fault of the tire. It would be interesting to investigate and see what is causing the problems.

 

[mvly]

For the puncture proof thing, get inner lining, thicker tube with slime inside of possible and use double rim tape. Also make sure you put them on properly. Sometime there can be a pinch on the tube and that can be the cause of the flats.

Have you tried these ideas? Curious as to your experience.
• Inner lining: mine abraded against the tube and gave me a flat. Kind of shocking to me as I bought them to prevent flats
• Thicker tube doesn’t do too much to prevent flats, but probably holds air better.
• Slime is messy stuff, but it may slow a leak enough to get you home. Not sure it really makes it puncture proof though.
• Double rim tape. I’ve tried that. Doesn’t hurt. But if I put the rim tape on properly, it works fine. I like the cloth tape best.
• Pinching the tube on installation is a good way to get multiple flats, you are right about that!

For the OP, it doesn’t sound like it is the fault of the tire. It would be interesting to investigate and see what is causing the problems.

Here is my experience on them, though I have to qualify my setup a bit. I run an extra tire on the outside of the inner tire. So in short:
1) Double cloth rim tape
2) Slime inside tube
3) Thorn resistance Tube
4) Inner lining
5) Big Apple Tires
6) Maxxis Hookworm on the outside

Inner lining: mine abraded against the tube and gave me a flat. Kind of shocking to me as I bought them to prevent flats

It actually helps. I know this because I have removed long staples from my tires, all coming out at an angle. I think the inner lining stops the nails, staples, etc. causing them to curve as they puncture the tires.

Thicker tube doesn’t do too much to prevent flats, but probably holds air better.

---- This is really for extra protection from pinches and the rims. First off, I ran ultra-thin tube on my road bike and gotten flats. But in terms of ebikes, they do prevent pinches because they are so thick and very hard to pinch in the first place. Moreover I once had a rim that rubbed the normal tubes until it broke open. Because of the hard stop and start of an ebike, it would exasperate the rubbing effect on the tube. The flat was really the fault of the rim itself because for some reason it had a center crest running down the middle of the rim. So if I had double rim tape, I might have never gotten a flat. But why take the chance?

Slime is messy stuff, but it may slow a leak enough to get you home. Not sure it really makes it puncture proof though.

It might not be puncture proof, but I do know it works for my car wheels. I have done it to my car wheel. The key is NOT remove the nail and the slime will do the job of sealing it up enough. I think this would definitely help you get home, provided you have an extra pump to put back the lost air.

Double rim tape. I’ve tried that. Doesn’t hurt. But if I put the rim tape on properly, it works fine. I like the cloth tape best.

Refer to my point about thicker tubes.

Pinching the tube on installation is a good way to get multiple flats, you are right about that!

Refer to my point about thicker tubes.

 

[docnjoj]

Just got back from a 20 mile ride with no flats. Hopefully the first of many. Plain old Walmart tube, no slime.
otherDoc

 

[mlt34]

I run maxxis hookworm on the rear and they last around 4-5K miles on my setup.

+1!
I have had great success with hookworms to the point that they're pretty much all I use. I wouldn't take them on a purpose built offroader, but as an all around tire they are excellent.

 

[chas58]

mvly, good feedback. Thanks!

 

[docnjoj]

Another 20 miles and OK. Second the Hookworms excellence. Shoulda bought them instead. Maybe the Walmart tubes will do it.
otherDoc

 

[Avitt]

So the tires haven't been punctured, they're not slipping on the rims, and the evidence is pointing towards faulty tubes? You should consider changing the thread title.

 

[sacko]

I never got on with them either.

If you run them low as recommended, they roll around the corner. An odd feeling.

If you raise the PSI, they seem to attract nails!

 

[docnjoj]

So the tires haven't been punctured, they're not slipping on the rims, and the evidence is pointing towards faulty tubes? You should consider changing the thread title.

Not so sure. I want to have her ride this combo for a month and see if we get any more flats. It could have been the tubes or the way the tire is designed. Dunno. Never had this problem before. Formerly tires were punctured by something in order to let the air out. Or we wore through them and the tube was exposed and blew. Using 40 psi.
otherDoc