So I bought an Ego-Kit,the 3400W one. Worst Idea Ever. HELP!

[tuu]

So I bought an Ego-Kit from Austria.... the 3400W one! Bought it in June, when my local DH park closed. Spent way too much money on it, but whats money right?

Well here we are 7 months later, I have never been able to use it, turns out at the very least the battery is bad. As you may have read, the Ego-Kit crew isn't really there for you after the sale. I read it too, but figured, how could bad could they be? Read on....

I joined Endless today to start righting this wrong by getting my ego kit going. I need some one to point me in the direction of a shop here in the US that can test and repair my Diehl Eagle Picher 50.4v 17.5ah 882Wh battery pack.

The problem seems to be the battery. When plugged into the system on the bike, nothing happens. I did notice that when plugging into the bike with the battery powered up, the lights in both the controller and twist throttle power up for tenth of a second, so we can assume they are connected and no wires are broken. I feel the error message from the charger is tell tale evidence that the battery is to blame. I can only assume it is just the battery pack, but just to get it out there I am using a MEC Nova 360SR Charger. If you know a place for repair, post it or PM me, if you know a way to test and can recommend a piece of test equipment please send me in the right direction. I am very electrically inclined, enough to know I don't know enough to move forward with out some direction.

Ego-Kits is of no help at this point. In a nutshell they sent me a nonworking incomplete kit, I had to pay an outrageous customs fee because of an error on there end and the cherry on top is they promised to send parts and test equipment which never arrived.

help.

 

[Ykick]

Where you at? Throw some pictures up so folks can readily know if they recognize enough to help you?

This stuff can have all kinda names and marketing jargon so good images can often stimulate responses. Plus, your location may help if someone’s local and equipped to help you get to the bottom of the issues.

 

[tuu]

Great points Ykick. I am in the Midwest, USA. Here is the kit:

 

[amberwolf]

Well here we are 7 months later, I have never been able to use it, turns out at the very least the battery is bad.
<snip>
my Diehl Eagle Picher 50.4v 17.5ah 882Wh battery pack.
<snip>

What voltage is the pack actually at when not under load?

What voltage does it drop to when you place it under a load? (meaning, when you plug it into the kit, or connect a load like a room heater to it)

What voltage does it go up to when you leave it on the charger for a long time (days, or weeks if necessary, if you see that the voltage does go up a little each day for several days)?

Note that it may be necessary to leave a battery on a charger for a very long time if it has become very unbalanced, which is not uncommon for a pack with a BMS that powers itself from only a few cells in the pack rather than the whole pack (common type), if that pack has sat around for a long time, either on the shelf in the warehouse, or at your own home.

If that's all it is, then leaving it on the charger will usually fix it eventually, but it can take a very long time as most BMSs are very slow at balancing a big imbalance, as normally only tiny imbalances ever happen in a good battery.

but just to get it out there I am using a MEC Nova 360SR Charger.

Is this the charger that comes with it? If it's not, is it the same voltage and current output as the original?

If it's not high enough voltage it cant' fully charge the pack, or cause it to balance. If it's too high a voltage then as long as the pack BMS works right it should protect the pack from it, normally.

If it cant' supply enough current it might take a little longer to charge the pack; if it can supply way more current than the pack normally takes for charge, then as long as the BMS works right it should also protect from that, but if it doesn't it could damage the BMS and/or cells, though that would be pretty extreme.


If the battery won't charge and is too low a voltage to run the kit, then if you're willing to open up the battery you can measure the individual cells by using a multimeter on DC Volts between each of the little balance wires from cells to BMS, including from the bottom balance wire to the pack negative (to get the bottom cell), and the top balance wire to the pack positive (this is usually the same point so reads 0V). Then post each of those voltages. They should all be pretty close to the same thing, within better than a tenth of a volt.

There is a lot of detail on troubleshooting batteries in the various other kit and battery troubleshooting threads around the forums, if you want to read up on the whole process, and what to expect inside your pack, etc.


EDIT: Also a note:

Diehl Eagle Picher 50.4v 17.5ah 882Wh battery pack.

If that 50.4v is it's average voltage then it might actually be 882Wh, but if it's it's fully charged voltage, then it's not going to be 882Wh in real use.

 

[tuu]

amberwolf, great info!

I will grab a mutimeter and get the numbers up asap.

The MEC Nova 360SR Charger is the one included with the kit. Sadly the charger does not work at all on the battery, it tries to charge the battery for a minute then kicks into error and just blinks that evil red light at me. The the same as it was 7 months ago, the battery and kit has just sat because of my stand still with ego on the repair.

Again, thank you for the help and I will get voltage answers up asap.

 

[Ykick]

Yeah, need to open it up and measure each cell group voltage. A picture inside would be very helpful too.

 

[tuu]

OK dusted off the multi-meter and did some measurements. I was only able to measure voltage for a second , got 53.4 when resting. As soon as I plugged it into the unit or charger and measured the voltage it was zero and stayed at zero for 5 minutes then back to 53.4. I can only assume the battery is in protect mode for those 5 minutes and when it is triggered by any load the battery shuts down, which co-insides something I noted earlier with the lights on the throttle working for a brief second every time.

It is a $2000.00USD battery so I am hesitant to pull it apart but at this point, why stop now? I will start the careful disassembly soon and post my results for review and interpretation. Thanks again for the help so for, much appreciated.

 

[Ykick]

Unfortunately, warranties mean very little with international transactions and especially battery packs. Hell, just shipping the damn thing around here in the states is hard enough.

Although you may have paid $2k it's not worth anything close to that in it's current condition.

If you're lucky enough it may just be a cell drained below ODDV (over discharge detection voltage) keeping the BMS off. This can even happen to good cells when left connected to BMS unattended for long periods of time. In that case it would be possible to perhaps charge the single low cell enough to allow BMS start working and then do a tedious balance charge.

Open'er up! Post some pics and remember you ain't got much to lose at this point.

 

[tuu]

For your viewing pleasure:





I am a little puzzled how to get a part from here, it seems as everything is hot glued together. The next level of disassembly to test the cells may be a bit tougher. I'll post the results.

btw

Although you may have paid $2k it's not worth anything close to that in it's current condition.

Ykick, you are totally right, hence my forte into battery surgery. Thanks again for the help, let me now if pictures of anything else in particular would be of help.

 

[amberwolf]

It is a $2000.00USD battery so I am hesitant to pull it apart but at this point, why stop now?

If it's from the same place as the other stuff, and they're not responding, it doenst' matter how much it cost you--it has no value at all right now since it doesn't work for you, and they are not going to help you with it.

 

[tuu]

It is a $2000.00USD battery so I am hesitant to pull it apart but at this point, why stop now?

If it's from the same place as the other stuff, and they're not responding, it doenst' matter how much it cost you--it has no value at all right now since it doesn't work for you, and they are not going to help you with it.

agreed, off to test some cells.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

No need to pull it apart further, you should be able to access the individual cell group voltages via those connectors with all the pretty wire colors on the left.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Is it just me or does the heat shrink on the 4 heavy leads look burned at the screws?

 

[izeman]

the 3 connectors on the left hand side seem to be the balance wires. just measure voltage starting from the top or buttom and go from one pin to the next. write down each voltage and post it here.
i feel ashamed for being Austrian. this is one of the best looking batteries i've seen for a long time, with a lot of high tech included, and i can't believe that a high priced company totally sucks at customer support. normally this is something where locals shine.
i'll try my best to help. i could call them and support locally if you want.

 

[izeman]

Is it just me or does the heat shrink on the 4 heavy leads look burned at the screws?

this seems to be silicone or hot glue to secure the connections. you can see that on all connectors.

 

[Ykick]

Good brand, type cells. Incredible quality looking BMS.

Yeah, just measure off those pads near the cell channel wire service/connectors. 14S7P. Look for a series group under 2.8V or so.

 

[Leebolectric]

rough, I had looked at them...sorry to see the frustration...
the good news...
you could have a matching pack and ride sooner while you trouble shoot this bad pack.
same exact cells and configuration...for under $700
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/52v-samsung-inr18650-25r-20ah-high-power/

I know spending more money sucks...but a good ride will clear your head.

 

[tuu]

No need to pull it apart further, you should be able to access the individual cell group voltages via those connectors with all the pretty wire colors on the left.

Nice call http://www.recumbents.com! Great idea, I will be doing this, I still hadn't figured out how to tear it apart, so this idea is what I needed.

Is it just me or does the heat shrink on the 4 heavy leads look burned at the screws?

This:

Is it just me or does the heat shrink on the 4 heavy leads look burned at the screws?

this seems to be silicone or hot glue to secure the connections. you can see that on all connectors.

the 3 connectors on the left hand side seem to be the balance wires. just measure voltage starting from the top or buttom and go from one pin to the next. write down each voltage and post it here.
i feel ashamed for being Austrian. this is one of the best looking batteries i've seen for a long time, with a lot of high tech included, and i can't believe that a high priced company totally sucks at customer support. normally this is something where locals shine.
i'll try my best to help. i could call them and support locally if you want.

Izeman, you are off the hook on this one, the battery is made in Germany and they have failed to respond to me as well. The info in this thread is more helpful than anything else, I will measure the cells and update as soon as I can. Thanks again everybody!

 

[tuu]

rough, I had looked at them...sorry to see the frustration...
the good news...
you could have a matching pack and ride sooner while you trouble shoot this bad pack.
same exact cells and configuration...for under $700
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/52v-samsung-inr18650-25r-20ah-high-power/

I know spending more money sucks...but a good ride will clear your head.

Great to know Leebolectric. I was worried about not having a plan B if this unit is 100% toast. Thanks for the link, I bookmarked it. Very helpful.

 

[fellow]

BMS probably discharged the battery and killed some cells in the progress. This is what BMS sometimes do. Someone stated that using the complicated BMS to protect the modern healthy 18650 cells is like hiring a hitman to do the babysitting. With that many power hungry components inside, at least twice the battery pack size is needed just to keep the BMS alive during the winter period.

Steps:
1. Place it outside, where the explosion or fire can not harm the animals or property.
2. Wear a protective goggles or similar. Have a fire distinguisher ready. Remove any wedding rings you may have, and wear the neoprene surgical gloves. Ebola ones will do, not too thin.

3. Disconnect the BMS completly and charge every 4.2V group separatly, one by one. Isolate the loose wires using the electrical tape. Charging is done with imax B6 or similar device, observing the POLARITY, temperature, explosion and smoke. Choose max 0.5A charge current for one cell, or max 2A charge current for the complete 4.2V group in case some of the cells are shorted or damaged. After some time, you can increase the current to speed things up, carefully observing the group.

Imax B6 is about 20 USD on ebay/aliexpress. Fake or the original one, let your conscience choose. Some imax B6 are delivered without the wall power adapter. In that case, use the laptop "brick" carefully observing the polarity and the voltage marked on the imax B6. Do not charge with more current than the adapter can provide! Do not discharge with too high current, as the imax B6 gets very hot.
4. When all the cells are charged to 4.2V, let the battery pack rest overnight.
5. Discharge every 4.2V group down to 3.0V using the imax B6 and note the capacity displayed (Wh prefered, otherwise Ah if not avaible) for every group.
6. Replace the bad group with less than approx 5Wh (or approx 1.4Ah ie 1400mAh) per cell. If you are lucky, no cells are damaged.
7. Charge all the cell groups back to 4.2V per group. Test the ebike without the BMS connected. Use 30A fuse, wheel in the air. Note the voltage for every group.
8. If everything is OK, charge all the cell groups back to 4.2V per group. Test the ebike with BMS connected.

Good luck, and don't forget to post the youtube movie of your finished ebike !

 

[Ykick]

Don't "ASSume" anything's "dead" yet. Post the individual 7P cell group voltages and we'll help you go from there. There's plenty of options (RC, CellPhone chargers) to inject enough charge into the low groups so that the BMS/PCM can take it from there. That appears to be a very capable BMS. Hopefully it's just in a "Limbo" state and with a little help and more frequent use will be just fine.

And that's "ASSuming" it's actually an ODDV condition sending the BMS/PCM into protection mode. But those are good quality cells and a very "industrial" design BMS/PCM.

 

[Lurkin]

Yes. Slow down, diagnose the actual fault, determine solution, assess feasibility. Then either repair or sell.... then buy something to replace it with.

Sometimes I have to force myself to do this to prevent just buying more stuff before really dealing with the old. If you can get it going, you have high quality, high discharge cells, decent bms (from appearance only) and a quality case.... I would definitely be trying to resurrect what you have first. Be careful, high discharge Cells and fire is a real possibility.

Is anyone close to the op?

 

[izeman]

as already mentioned: grab your DMM and post voltages. then we can go on with the diagnose.
no charging, discharging etc yet. measuring voltages is THE VERY FIRST STEP.

 

[tuu]

OK not sure if I did this right, but here is what I got, looks like there may be issues with the batteries on leads 11 & 12, the strange results from these leads are outlined far below in red.

I counted 14 rows of batteries and found 14 multi colored wires total in the two sets on the left pictured below. I measured each wire and used the ground on the right for my other lead.

I got (starting at the bottom and working up)
1)48.3 red wire
2)44.3 orange
3)40.3 yellow
4)36.2 green
5)32.2 blue
6)28.2 pink
7)24.2 pink2 (start of next connector)
8 )20.1 blue2
9)16.1 green2
10)12.0 yellow2
11)8.0 orange2
12)7.9 red2
13)7.9 brown
14)3.9 black

Your thoughts?

 

[izeman]

to be honest i'm too lazy to calculate the delta between each cell
to do it "right" you measure each adjacent pins. so the top most and the one next to it. then the second one and the third one ... and so on.
this should give you 13 values. the 14th one is between GND and the most lowest one.
all values should be almost the same by a tenth of a volt.
please do so and post values. but it seems you've found the culprit between pin #11 and #12, and #12 and #13. seems like two dead cell packs. that's strange as "normally" it's only one. could be that the second one was bad as well, and discharge over the last 7 month.
we got hope

edit: i did the calc quickly in my head, and all cells except those between 11/12 and 12/13 seem ok. so please measure twice between those 2x 2pins and post values. should be 0v.