Solar Power Cruiser - Terratrike

amberwolf said:
Bigger it is, the harder it is to ignore it, which is why I don't use bicycle-sized lighting, or any of the smaller bright but point-source stuff, but try to use larger-surface-area lights)

I don't know what the effect of the flashing lights is on people. They are painfully bright and impossible not to see in my rural setting, but as you point out, don't give much sense of size. I can tell you that deer are absolutely TRANSFIXED by the flashing headlight. They stand there with their mouths open and simply EXPLODE when I get close enough for them to see how big I am and how fast I am going. Even the deer that know me keep their distance when the lights are on. Normally I can ride past them with no more than a few feet of separation but with the lights on they give me a wide berth.

I like the idea of extended light sources, especially the one about mimicking the lane change sign. I thought about getting a string of LEDs and just sort of outlining the bike -- at least the back end. I would like to keep at least a little of my night vision. The LED strings do not draw a lot of power and of course, the power they draw depends on how long the string is. 18ft of waterproof LED string is ~$10 and wants 3A @ 12V. Use only 6ft and that is a manageable 12W @ 12V -- a tiny DC-DC board can make that from bike voltage with no trouble and very little heat output.
 
I thought more about it and I think 2 panels peaked and tilted forward would be a good idea. They'd be less likely to get buffeted badly from a headwind, crosswinds would slide over the peak and wind from the rear would be sort of caught by the tilted panels and act kind of like a sail. They'd also act like a visor and keep the sunlight from blinding the rider depending on the time of day and direction of the ride. I was also thinking that maybe to use two inverters and parallel the outputs of the inverters into a single connection then to the controller. You'd get closer to optimum voltage and more Ah to play with. I think it was mentioned that too many watts in a single inverter causes it to overheat. Also the peak would make you even higher profile and more visible to motorists. Also if you get caught out in the rain the water won't have a surface to settle on.
 
lbz5mc12 said:
I thought more about it and I think 2 panels peaked and tilted forward would be a good idea. They'd be less likely to get buffeted badly from a headwind, crosswinds would slide over the peak and wind from the rear would be sort of caught by the tilted panels and act kind of like a sail. They'd also act like a visor and keep the sunlight from blinding the rider depending on the time of day and direction of the ride. I was also thinking that maybe to use two inverters and parallel the outputs of the inverters into a single connection then to the controller. You'd get closer to optimum voltage and more Ah to play with. I think it was mentioned that too many watts in a single inverter causes it to overheat. Also the peak would make you even higher profile and more visible to motorists. Also if you get caught out in the rain the water won't have a surface to settle on.

I am having trouble visualizing what you are suggesting can you post a sketch or a picture of something similar to what you are thinking. I installed mine as flat as I could get it to reduce wind resistance to a minimum. I can't tell any difference on long downhills so any drag from the panel is pretty minimal. It does whistle so there is surely some small drag.

If you are thinking of something forward on the bike so that it is sort of a wind fairing then I get it.

Using two of the DC-to-DC boost power supplies is probably a good idea since the panels will have different illumination and therefor different optimal operating points. Getting the two supplies balanced might be tricky, but as long as the max voltage is correct for your battery I think it will work itself out with the better-illuminated panel providing most of the charge. Also look for higher voltage panels so that the boost supply doesn't have to raise the voltage quite so far. My operating point is less than optimal because the panel open circuit voltage is only 21V with a max power point of 17V//5.6A. My panel's actual operating point in full sun is close to 12V//6A with the boost supply delivering 1.6A at 40V to the battery. That simply says that my boost supply and battery look like a 2 ohm resistor instead of the 3 ohm resistor that would be optimal for the panel. If I had used two 50W panels in series, I think my operating point could have been closer to ideal.
 
While reading the below (and my previous stuff) keep in mind all of my lighting opinions ar ejust that: opinions, not scientifically-tested fact. It's based on my years of riding around observing and some basic experimentation, but not an actual study with any control factors. So my conclusions could be completely wrong, even though they seem to serve me well enough so far. Just because they are logical doesn't mean they're right. ;)


icerider said:
I don't know what the effect of the flashing lights is on people. They are painfully bright and impossible not to see in my rural setting, but as you point out, don't give much sense of size.
Well, the thing about point source lights is that you can't really tell how far away it is, can't easily and instantly judge how fast it's moving relative to you, etc. The larger the surface area of the light is, the closer it appears and the easier it seems to be to judge it's speed...BUT: In general, most car headlights are about the size of your open hand, with fingers not spread out. So if you use lights that have a lit surface area of that size, drivers' brains are already programmed (usually) to judge speed/distance. If you can put a pair of them on there, one over each front wheel of the trike, it'd be even better cuz then they can use the changing distance between them to judge approach angle and distnace and speed.

But in your case, most of the problems aren't with headlights, it's with taillights, because in your situation it's a lot less likely to have a head-on collision wiht a car than to have one run you over from behind. ;) (in city traffic it makes a whole lot more difference for the headlight thing, becuase of all thos people pulling out of side streets, driveways, etc., and those in oncoming lanes about ot cross your path without signalling to get into one of those side streets, driveways, etc). In your case, the most important thing about hte headlight is YOU being able to see where you're going in time to react to anything you see in your path. Personally, I think a steady headlight instead of flashing would suit you better for that, but you'd have to experiment and see for yourself, if you haven't already.


For taillights, AFAICT, just having more of the back of the vehicle lit up with lights bright enough to be seen from a goodly distance, and/or lots of reflective surface area (like that red/white tape I have on mine, and/or regular bike/car/MC reflectors, etc) will help, even if it is all just steady lighting. Having it all wired up so that it brightens dramatically when you are braking helps, too, especially if you see someone approaching you way too fast you can tap your brakes to blink the lights and they almost certainly *will* see you and either slow down or at least change lanes and not run you over as they speed thru the area at two or three times the posted limit. :/



It also helps with the downlighting, lighting up the surface of the road itself. It makes you look bigger, and easier to see from a distance. Ever see a motorcycle or scooter with the old licenseplate light that lit up the road all around hte back end of the bike for several feet? Vs many of hte new ones that use just a little bitty LED that only lights up the actual plate? The new ones look a lot smaller on the road than the old ones did. Their actual taillights are often many times brighter than the old incandescent types, but they still look smaller, and thus farther away, and it appears as if one has more time to react to them than one actually does. :/





I can tell you that deer are absolutely TRANSFIXED by the flashing headlight. They stand there with their mouths open and simply EXPLODE when I get close enough for them to see how big I am and how fast I am going. Even the deer that know me keep their distance when the lights are on. Normally I can ride past them with no more than a few feet of separation but with the lights on they give me a wide berth.
Well, the expression "deer in headlights" for someone jsut standing htere in surprise did come from somewhere, you know. ;) They (and some other animals) simply get surprised by things like that, and don't know what to do. It isn't in their programmed responses, and they don't always "learn" new ones very well, it seems. Cows and goats are like that, too, in my farm-country experience. :lol:




I like the idea of extended light sources, especially the one about mimicking the lane change sign. I thought about getting a string of LEDs and just sort of outlining the bike -- at least the back end. I would like to keep at least a little of my night vision. The LED strings do not draw a lot of power and of course, the power they draw depends on how long the string is. 18ft of waterproof LED string is ~$10 and wants 3A @ 12V.
Yep. Generally, as long as it's "legal" colors for the direction its facing, more lighted area can't hurt. ;)


The only worry is if someone tries to apply some of the restrictions on number and types of lights for *motor vehicles* to you, when you are not a motor vehicle, and only have to obey the bicycle lighting laws (which in AZ I do not think restrict the number of lights you can have, only mandate that you have a headlight and tailight visible from such and such a distance, and certain reflectors). Certainly I've never had anyone complain about my lighting, and indeed been thanked by police for having it, more than once. :lol: I just make sure that any light sources actually visible from the rear are only red or amber, and anything that is red is not visible from the front, and I don't use anything other than red, amber, or white lights.

I also don't use flashing lights except for turn signals, because I find that drivers see a flashing light (especially a small point source, regardless of brightness, red, or white) as a very slow bicycle and completley misjudge how fast I am going (usually 18-20MPH, sometimes less), which results in me having to dodge them or them having to brake very suddenly when they finally realize I'm not toodling along at 5-8MPH. :( They do *see* me, they just don't seem able to properly judge speed or position from it. I've considered testing flashing lights *plus* my regular lighting, but since it's not generally on other road vehicles *except* bicycles, I have a feeling it isn't going to change anything, plus I *know* they can see me already as it is. :lol:


I forget what my downlighting LED strips take for power, but it generally doesn't detract from my vision because almost all of the light from it is below and behind me.

There's MUCH more overspill in front from my car headlight, but even that isn't a problem, because most of my problems come from headlights from oncoming cars, and from advertising signage and spotlights lighting up the sides of buildings and other signage, with too much overspill shining into roadways and such (and they are very bright near-point-sources, often enough). It's like a headlight-cold-war, too, since as some people get brighter lights in their cars, others have to have brighter lights to be able to see the road now because of the blinding lights from the other cars, and then other cars have to get even brighter ones themselves, and so on, until nowadays I can't see the road at all with oncoming traffic unless I also have lights as bright as theirs. (presently it is an old Sylvania halogen from an '85 Ford LTD, using both low and highbeam filaments at the same time, whenever there is oncoming traffic, otherwise just lowbeam).


Use only 6ft and that is a manageable 12W @ 12V -- a tiny DC-DC board can make that from bike voltage with no trouble and very little heat output.
You can also often use old wallwarts from other things, easily found at Goodwill and other thrift stores (if you have such things up there), as DC-DC converters. As long as they are not heavy transformer types, many of them will run on DC input as well as AC, and at sometimes less than half of their rated minimum input voltage. There's bajillions of ~12V adapters out there for LCD monitors and such, and lots of them will work on 50-60VDC for starting up.

I am presently using a Rayovac 14.4VDC output charger wallwart as my "12V" lighting power converter, running off my traction pack. I am now using 14.4V because it's closest to automotive voltages, adn that's the lighting types I prefer to use, so they work best at that voltage, and are often much dimmer at only 12V.

I've used several different kinds with varied levels of success, including actual DC-DC converters, but the wallwarts are cheaper and often nice sealed-up units (not fully waterproof but hardly ever need that here, and would be easy enough to fix that). (I also use a 4s 16V pack to run my car headlight, cuz it's just too power-hungry to run at it's full brightness off any of the DC-DC's or wallwarts I've got that will still run off my traction pack. Eventually I will get around to replacing it's halogen bulb with LEDs or something).
 
The problem with cross country trips is natures offensive lack of power outlets in the middle of the wilderness. So many trees and cactus out there and not a single power outlet on any of them!

I'm not sure if your solar panel is enough for long distance stuff but with the addition of a dog powered hamster wheel you will be back to full charge in no time. :D
 
Imagine if you will how the top of a sprint car looks but with a peaked top and tilting forward. Yeah I was thinking about panels in series but the heat build up from too many watts running through the inverter also popped up in my head.
 
AW,

You get a perception of speed much more from 2 lights spread apart on a car than one light. What helps motorcycles is the noise with the change in sound giving strong audio info of their approach and speed. We're able to mount our lights much higher than common car headlights, so I think the best defense is to light up more road without the bright light blinding them. A flashing light may help them see you, but with any intensity the strobe effect lighting up the surroundings ahead would drive me batty or put me in a trance. At night I want to light up the road clearly and well off to both sides with drivers seeing me a good by-product.

Riding at night is so many more times as dangerous, I simply avoid it anyway.
 
amberwolf said:
You can also often use old wallwarts from other things, easily found at Goodwill and other thrift stores (if you have such things up there), as DC-DC converters. As long as they are not heavy transformer types, many of them will run on DC input as well as AC, and at sometimes less than half of their rated minimum input voltage. There's bajillions of ~12V adapters out there for LCD monitors and such, and lots of them will work on 50-60VDC for starting up.

Thank you for the lighting lesson. I hadn't thought about how good I had it out here being able to ride at night in the rural dark. There are only a few cars, not much light at all, and I can see any autos from a great distance so if one is coming up too fast and not moving left to avoid me I have lots of time to move off the road if I have too. You are right that the only real problem I have is getting overtaken from behind. Against a dark background, my "randomly flashing" taillights look like a bright UFO and I know I will be seen. Since I can see the cars coming up behind me, I can gauge whether or not I am being avoided as well as seen. I don't think I will be riding at night in any even suburban environments any time soon but I will take a hard look at ground lighting and at outline lighting at the back to enhance their perception of my size and motion.

I get a little queasy thinking about having to compete with background illumination and not being able to see cars at 500 yards from their lights. I think in that environment your decision to use automotive lighting is a REALLY good idea. As you point out, those are the lights they are used to seeing and avoiding.

I am amazed that you have walwarts that work on DC. In the end it makes sense since the first thing they do is rectify the AC. I have a number of computer power bricks that ought to be good candidates. I have an IBM 19V supply that plugs in in place of the solar panels at night or on dark dreary days and works quite nicely, but I am running it off AC. If it also worked the other way around (as a stepdown DC converter) then my emergency charger might just find a second use and a permanent home on the bike. That would be convenient and satisfy my minimalist dual-use leanings.
 
lbz5mc12 said:
Imagine if you will how the top of a sprint car looks but with a peaked top and tilting forward. Yeah I was thinking about panels in series but the heat build up from too many watts running through the inverter also popped up in my head.

At low speed, the added drag won't be much of a problem. At higher speeds, say above 18mph or so, I think the wind drag would get to be a problem. You could make them tip, forward or back at low speed for solar gain, and flat for long downhills where you want speed more than solar.

As for handling multiple panels, this Dc-to-DC brick will handle pretty much any panel set you can imagine putting on a bike. (http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Constant-Current-Converter-Regulated/dp/B00E8D7XYG) It also has constant current AND constant voltage so you can mimic your normal charger pretty well. If I do a 200-300W solar trailer I will upgrade to this model.
 
parajared said:
The problem with cross country trips is natures offensive lack of power outlets in the middle of the wilderness. So many trees and cactus out there and not a single power outlet on any of them!

I'm not sure if your solar panel is enough for long distance stuff but with the addition of a dog powered hamster wheel you will be back to full charge in no time. :D

I rode 26 miles between 7am and 9:30am and used less than 3Ah out of the battery. Starting at 10am and going to 2pm I think I can ride continuously at 12-14 miles per hour and wind up at 2pm with a full battery. Then I can ride 26 more miles and still have a couple of amp hours left in the battery. That works out to roughly 100 miles in a LONG day of riding. If I hold up, then I think I can make it to the next wall plug, but I don't really need to, I can stop at 2pm even with an empty battery and be fully charged before the sun goes down, I just need to tip the bike into the sun.

Now all of that assumes it is summer in Arizona and that I don't simply DIE somewhere in the 8 hours of riding. But 26 miles was no problem at all, and the next 26 would be at high-solar (10am-2pm) so I can use max assist and or the throttle. That gives me 50 relatively easy miles before noon-ish with PLENTY of time for the sun to recharge the bike before sunset.

All of that is theoretical so far, except for the 26 miles which I have done twice, once at low assist and low speed and once at high assist and 17mph. The second one was better, not a taxing ride at all, but it did eat all of the battery in addition to plenty of noon-day sun.

The more I talk about this, the more I want to try it. I will have to find a nice flat-ish 60 mile stretch of Interstate and a nice autumn day, a couple of gallons of ice water, and some eating goodies for the road. Actually, I guess I only need 30 miles of flat-ish Interstate. If I call my wife from 60 miles down the road and say "come get me" ... well, never mind.

That 30 mile out and 30 back is kind of interesting. If I start at say 8:30am and basically ride with moderate assist until the battery is empty I'll be 30-ish miles down the road and it will be 10:30am. Sit for two hours and have lunch, turn around and ride back with high assist and high sun, I'll be home by 2pm with 60 miles done ...

OK, maybe in early November -- may have to modify the panel mount so I can tip it left and right for max solar .... now I need a 30 mile stretch of E-W interstate. It is looking like I10 is elected. Maybe Benson to Rita Ranch -- 1000 vertical feet down going out and 1000 up coming back (at high solar mid day) .... actually, I think I will ride that one the other way around -- up first as far as I can go and then a long coast home. that is workable, I think - one way to find out.
 
John in CR said:
AW,

You get a perception of speed much more from 2 lights spread apart on a car than one light. What helps motorcycles is the noise with the change in sound giving strong audio info of their approach and speed. We're able to mount our lights much higher than common car headlights, so I think the best defense is to light up more road without the bright light blinding them. A flashing light may help them see you, but with any intensity the strobe effect lighting up the surroundings ahead would drive me batty or put me in a trance. At night I want to light up the road clearly and well off to both sides with drivers seeing me a good by-product.

Riding at night is so many more times as dangerous, I simply avoid it anyway.

And there is the difference. I ride at night because it is safer. I can see better and in full darkness I do use a constant headlight that reaches nearly forever in rural darkness. I can see the cars better and further away, I am more visible against my background, there are almost never more than a couple of cars in a 15 mile ride and by now most everybody knows me and honks and waves.

The second greatest danger I encounter on a night ride is the moron bunnies doing their "run straight down the road in front of me and turn at the last minute" thing - sooner or later I am going to run over one of those things and I just hope I don't turn over when I do.

The greatest danger I have encountered was the night I raced one of my friendly running-buddy neighborhood dogs. I decided he had outrun me for the last time and I had the better line, the road was straight and he was coming across the field at a 30 degree angle, closing on me and the road just at the very edge of my headlight, running hard for the road and the win. I was turning about 26mph pretty much spun out and closing on him fast. I was 8 feet from him when he entered the road headed for the barbed wire fence on the other side of the road. That was when I realized he wasn't one of my dog friends but instead a good sized javelina scared absolutely out of his mind, being run down by a creature right out of his nightmares. He was getting ready to turn and die fighting. I generously let him win the race. I also noticed that if he had turned around, we would have been just about the same height nose-to-nose with me in my tadpole.

Now I have nightmares too.
 
John in CR said:
You get a perception of speed much more from 2 lights spread apart on a car than one light.
Yep, which is why I was suggesting putting one over each wheel on the front of his tadpole. ;)

But as long as a light isn't a point source, I can tell a lot about how far away it is and how fast it is moving if it's a size I'm familiar with, such as car headlights that are usually roughly the same lit area (around here, there are some that are as much as 3x the size of others, but many are around the size of a flat non-spread-fingered hand (as if you were holding it up to say "stop"), with many of the rest up to a little less than twice that size).

I suppose I am making another assumption about others that may not be warranted, but I would expect that conciously or not, many drivers can/do automatically tell the same thing, based on how they react to the various sizes and types of lights I ahve tried on assorted bikes over the years, most especially onmy favorite testbed: DayGlo Avenger both before and after it was electrimotorificated.

Unfortunately it *is* an assumption, and I just don't know how other people really see things, just how I see them react to things I do/change. :/

Also unfortunately, there isn't really enough width on a typical bicycle (including my contraptions) to spread lights very far apart. At best, on a typical bike, one could be put on either bar-end, without adding to the width of the bike/rider. On a trike it could be a lot wider, depending on how it's made.

I *have* noticed that a number of newer motorcycles (and scooters) around here have two headlights with a small separation between them, sometimes just a thin vertical line that might be an inch wide, and sometimes up to a handspan's width. But some of them have two lights within the same housing so it really is just a bigger brighter light than a single headlight. I've seen a couple (maybe the same one at different times?) with one flashing headlight and one steady, which would definitely disorient *me* as a rider, at least at night, but it is more noticeable in the daytime. At night, I guess I noticed it more easily than a steady one, so maybe it did it's job?



What helps motorcycles is the noise with the change in sound giving strong audio info of their approach and speed.
That's true as far as it goes, except that at least for most of the motorcycles around here, with the exception of Harleys and others that are detuned or otherwise made very noisy, they are very quiet unless they're really ripping up the pavement accelerating (and some of them are very quiet even then). When i am riding with Bill in his truck (medium-large Dodge something-or-other) with the windows up, I generally can't hear them at all unless they are literally right beside us--just like most of the other traffic on the road. Some are noisy, but not many. Same with cars, trucks, etc. The only ones I usually even notice while I'm on my bike are the detuned ones or ones with loud radios, when there's traffic around.

I can hear most vehicles if I'm the only one on the road except for one that's approaching from ahead or behind, but in traffic they've gotta be fairly loud to be heard--and in a car, especially since many people seem to turn up their radios pretty loud (loud enough to be heard at least a little outside their closed-up vehicle when we're all sitting at a traffic light), I don't expect they can hear much of anything beyond their own road noise, air-conditioner on high, etc., and their radios, if they use them.

I don't know how well others, including various vehicle drivers, hear any of the other vehicle noises, though. Maybe they can hear them a lot better than I can.


We're able to mount our lights much higher than common car headlights, so I think the best defense is to light up more road without the bright light blinding them. A flashing light may help them see you, but with any intensity the strobe effect lighting up the surroundings ahead would drive me batty or put me in a trance. At night I want to light up the road clearly and well off to both sides with drivers seeing me a good by-product.
I think you're right about all of that, too, though I don't mount mine higher because I find it's easier to see the potholes and road debris, etc., if I mount it about halfway between my eye height and the road surface, so it casts moving shadows I can at least partly see against the backdrop of other lights facing me (like opposing traffic). I'd actually put it even lower if I could, but practically at the moment that's about as low as I can get it.

IIRC my CB2 headlight is presently about the same height as an average car's. Dayglo Avenger's on the ohter hand is right up there at intersection of bars and stem, so it's probably closer to the height of an average pickup's or SUV's--but since I'm also a lot higher up on it riding, being a "normal" bike, it's still about halfway between my eyes and the road and does the same thing for me.

Delta Tripper's is way higher, maybe 3/4 of the way between my eyes and the road, and doesn't really do as good a job highlighting road problems/etc but I also don't like riding it nearly as fast as I'd ride the others, simply because it's nickname is really Delta *Tipper*. ;)




Riding at night is so many more times as dangerous, I simply avoid it anyway.
Like Icerider, I also prefer night riding because I can see better and eveyrone else can see *me* better, too. (mostly because of the latter, actually). But also because there is usually less traffic at night than in the daytime, in the areas I typically ride in, and what there is of it is less in a hurry than during the day, and usually paying more attention to the rest of the world. (there are exceptions to all of those, though :( ).

The one disadvantage of riding at night for me is that it's a lot harder to see anything that doesnt' have it's own lights, so I ahve to watch more for animals and for pedestrians (and other cyclists) that wear dark clothing and no lights or reflective anything, and that suddenly come across my path, often by suddenly changing directions and going right off the edge of the sidewalk in front of me without warning...so I don't generally ride near an occupied sidewalk for that reason, day or night, if I can avoid it.

Though....my eyesight is also slowly getting worse, and eventually riding at night is gonna need lights specially designed to let me see without shining in anyone else's eyes, because they're gonna have to be WAY brighter than would be safe otherwise. :(
 
icerider! I hope we hear more about your solar trike! I've been following your thread and appreciate the method you have used to evaluate the panel and discuss it's performance! More data is most welcome!

(EDIT: THANK YOU icerider for the update you provided - shown below...)
 
jkbrigman said:
icerider! I hope we hear more about your solar trike! I've been following your thread and appreciate the method you have used to evaluate the panel and discuss it's performance!
Data...more data...would be most welcome!

OK, let's try to scrape all the numbers into an understandable form.

The original system:

The bike is a Terratrike Cruiser circa 2009 with a Bionx PL350 System. The bike has 20 inch wheels with Schwalbe Big Apple 2x20 tires running at 65psi for low rolling resistance. The chainrings are 30/42/52 and the rear sprocket is 11-30 in 8 steps. I typically ride the 42 chainring and the 11 sprocket for a cadence of 65-70 rpm at 16-17mph. The battery of the system is advertised to be 9.6Ah. This system advertises assist levels of 35, 75, 150 and 300% of the rider’s effort. This seems roughly accurate.

The system has been modified by rebuilding the battery with LiPo cells and adding a solar system to charge the LiPos


The modified battery

The battery is installed in a Bionx Shell with the I2C (2009) Bionx battery circuit card. This card provides only two real functions that I can see. It provides a relay to make and break the battery connection to the motor, and it appears to provide some CycleAnalyst-type functions that support the battery gauge on the Bionx console and it communicates to the console on the I2C bus.
The 60 LiMn 18650 cells were removed and replaced with the two LiPo bricks wrapped in bubble wrap to keep them from rattling around in the case. The LiPo bricks are Turnigy 5000mAh 5s 20C LiPo Packs wired in series for a 5Ah 10s 38V battery. An iMAX LiPo charger reports that the bricks are 5200 mAh when charging from 3.5V to 4.2V. The batteries were wired in series and connections to the positive, the negative, and the midpoint were brought out of the battery shell on 14 gauge wire through a hole drilled in the “back” end (the end near the lock). The balance leads were also extended and brought out through the same hole. With a nominal voltage of 38V, this is a 190Wh battery – pretty small for an e-bike.


The solar charging system

The solar panel is a Renogy “flexible” panel 21x41 inches with a weight of 3.5lbs. Open circuit voltage is 21.7V and the short-circuit current is 6.1A. The max power point is at 17.7V and 5.6A for a max power of 101W. I have verified the open circuit voltage and short circuit current, but I don’t have a variable resistor that will carry enough wattage to check the max power point. The rough and VERY brief test I did with two 1.5 ohm 10W wirewound resistors showed a voltage of 17V and current at 5.55. That gives a rough max power of 94 W. Those resistors got HOT in a hurry.
The “charger” is a DROK 120W boost converter from Amazon that will take an input from 10-32V and will generate output from 35-60V. Max output current is 5A. The input of the boost converter is wired directly to the panel, the output is wired directly into the battery through the 14 gauge wires that I brought out through the hole in the case. I fed the converter 20V on the bench and put a 50 ohm resistor on the output. I adjusted the voltage to 42V. When I had the panel wired up and the converter connected to a fully charged battery, I took the whole system out into the sun, adjusted the panel to be roughly perpendicular to the noonday sun, and checked the output voltage again. It was down a little to 41.5 and I readjusted it to 42 volts.


Riding Performance

Starting with a full battery, beginning in the dark and riding until just after dawn I ride the battery from 42V down to 35-36V which is 90+ percent of the battery capacity. I go between 12 and 14 miles riding in assist level 4 (300%) and sometimes using the throttle. The course I ride is rolling hills with a few flats. The hills are frequent, short, and relatively steep 4-5% grade. My riding style is simple, I pedal consistently but not especially hard on the flats, cruising at 16-17 mph. I coast the downhills at 22-28mph. I push HARD going up the hills to keep the wheel rpm high to make the Bionx 500W direct drive motor as efficient as possible. I attack before I reach the start of the hill and continue to push hard up and over the top of the hill. On the hills, the “power meter” on the Bionx console typically reaches its midrange which I THINK is about 350W. Using 190Wh in 12-14 miles gives 13.5-15.8 Whr/mile, call it 14.5Whr/mile. If I average 15mph over the course, this is 217W average draw from the battery.

Starting with a full battery in the midday sun (in Arizona summer) I can almost ride twice around the same course. I have run the course twice at midday and both times I made it roughly 26 miles before the battery was gone. It is true that I ride slower at midday. If I average only 13mph and the Whr/mile remains roughly constant, I would be consuming 188W total with the battery delivering 108 W and the solar panel delivering 80W on average. This is not too far from what I see when the bike is sitting in the sun just charging at midday. In several measurements made with the battery mostly empty, I have seen the converter putting 38V at 1.85A into the battery. This is 70W, so the idea that I would be getting ~80W when I am riding is not too far out of the ballpark.


Reliability

I have only been riding this setup for a little over a month. I ride it half to fully empty pretty much every morning averaging 12 miles per ride. These rides are all at or before dawn so they are battery-only. The bike has charged from solar every day except two. Once I bulk charged it through the up converter using an old IBM 19V charger to replace the solar panels. The other time I balance charged the LiPo bricks using an iMAX balance charger sold for the RC market. The cells are staying VERY well balanced. It has been 10 days or so since I balance charged and when I checked tonight at full charge, the cells all show between 4.13 and 4.17V per cell across all ten cells. Actually, the variation seems more likely to be in the multi-cell balance-checker voltmeter than in the batteries. I noticed that the balance checker always has the same pattern for both the 5s batteries. The pattern is (4.13, 4.17, 4.15, 4.15, 4.16) (low, high, medium, medium, high). I checked with another digital voltmeter -- being VERY careful not to short a cell and all the readings are within 0.01V, reading either 4.14 or 4.15.

OK, I think that is pretty much all the relevant numbers.
 
New Bigger Battery:

OK, so after a month of riding with only 190 Whr of battery using the two 5s 5Ah LiPo bricks in the Bionx battery case, I decided it was time to get serious. I opened the second (good) Bionx battery and it turned out to be trivial to tie into the 60 cell (10S6P) LiMn Bionx battery pack.battery001_small.jpg.

The two great white blobs are silicone caulk -- just added by Bionx to keep the battery from rattling around in the case. The great big black brick under the silicone is the 60 cell Bionx LiMn battery. Also note that this very late I2C battery has a MUCH smaller circuit board than the original 2009 I2C battery. At the right of the picture are the wires from the battery brick to the circuit board. Red and black are self explanatory, and I don't know what the green wire is (accessory perhaps ?). I cut the insulation with a wire stripper and pushed the insulation back so about 8mm of the copper wire was exposed. A quick solder job, a VERY heavy electrical tape wrap, press the wires back against the battery brick and close the cover up - a ten minute surgery.
battery004_small.jpg.

And now I have a bigger battery. This battery seems to have about 85% of its 9.6Ah capacity remaining. I estimated that simply by riding the 5Ah battery empty in the dark and then riding the "9.6 Ah" battery empty the next morning on the same circuit. The ratio of distances suggests the 9.6Ah battery is really closer to 8Ah.

So now my bike will go further. But...I still have the two 5s 5Ah LiPos --- so...I opened the old Bionx battery case, pulled the LiPos and put them in a small plastic box. I charged the "new" Bionx battery to full charge (41.7 V) by leaving the bike in the sun for several hours. I then removed the Bionx battery and charged the LiPos from the solar charger for a couple of hours. A quick check said both packs were charged to 41.7V. Since the discharge curves of LiPo and LiMn are so similar, it should be safe to parallel the batteries -- the hookup is the only time REAL sparks are possible.

I cut into the wires from the boost converter to the battery and added a second set of battery connectors so that I could connect the LiPos in parallel with the Bionx battery. I hooked the Bionx battery back up to the bike. I hooked up the negative side of the LiPos and checked the voltage between the positive side of the LiPos and the positive side of the Bionx circuit --- 9mv difference ... pretty good. There wasn't even a SMALL spark when I connected the two fully charged batteries in parallel.

So now I have a fully charged 13Ah battery and it is 1:30pm Arizona (solar) time. Time to go RIDE. Now I know that the range is going to be something BIG, In mid-day sun, I can get 26 miles from the 5Ah battery in high assist (level 4) so this is going to be a LONG ride. Well, ONE way to shorten that ride is to just --- sit there --- throttle ONLY. Sit down in my lawnchair with wheels, clip into the pedals, and just sit there getting a sore thumb. I will admit that on the LONG hills I pedaled a LITTLE bit to keep the bike speed above 12mph to keep the efficiency of the motor up in the 80% range. Other than that, I just SAT THERE and enjoyed the breeze.

To say I was pleased would be the understatement of the week. Two hours and 30 miles later the battery is empty. This idiot-simple lashup just went 30 miles on throttle ONLY, at an average speed of 15mph. I am just over the moon happy. A quick calculation says if I had ridden between 11am and 1pm I could have gone about 46 miles. If I had ridden in the level 4 assist mode rather than using the throttle it would have been even further.

OK, I am going touring.
 
Yeah baby. I figured that if you just carried a 'normal" size battery you'd have 50 mile range for sure. Going to Patagonia? Ride to Globe?

Weather is cooling, time to ride.
 
Ya know, AW, your trike does not look much narrower than Lightfoot Cycles Greenway. They claim the 32" width needs the rider to balance but they make a 37" one too. Perhaps just add some 15mm axle (standard) and some support to yours? Just a thought cause I like trikes and they make sense for carrying stuff.
otherDoc
greenway-product-1.jpg
 
dogman said:
Yeah baby. I figured that if you just carried a 'normal" size battery you'd have 50 mile range for sure.

Going to Patagonia? Ride to Globe? Weather is cooling, time to ride.

Patagonia is an idea -- about 56 miles and a nice hotel to stay in.

Globe is 150 miles or so with some places to stop along the way.

Maybe Patagonia first.

I have another LIFePO4 battery 12Ah ~44 volts fully charged --- but it wants to cut out at 35 volts -- not a good match at the high end. $200 would add 10Ah more LiPo...

And there is always the Nissan leaf batteries which ARE LiMn chemistry.

Maybe do some touring first and see if I like it before I spend a lot of money on stuff I won't use. Patagonia sounds about right.
 
You just cost me $240, I ordered the panel and the heavy duty 600w buck boost module a couple of days ago. Found the panel for $204 on Ebay shipped.

I figured the stuff would come in handy for our next extended power outage anyway to keep lights, TV and our well pump going off my ebike pack but I'll definitely be putting it on my bike. We already have a big inverter so I shouldn't have much else left to buy to use the pack as an emergency power source.

I get questions about my ebike quite often as it is, If it's got a big solar panel and I can tell people I get 20 miles or more a day of power just from the panel it will blow them away. I normally ride less than 20 miles so my battery should stay charged most of the time just from solar.
 
Jonathan in Hiram said:
You just cost me $240, I ordered the panel and the heavy duty 600w buck boost module a couple of days ago. Found the panel for $204 on Ebay shipped.

I figured the stuff would come in handy for our next extended power outage anyway to keep lights, TV and our well pump going off my ebike pack but I'll definitely be putting it on my bike. We already have a big inverter so I shouldn't have much else left to buy to use the pack as an emergency power source.

I get questions about my ebike quite often as it is, If it's got a big solar panel and I can tell people I get 20 miles or more a day of power just from the panel it will blow them away. I normally ride less than 20 miles so my battery should stay charged most of the time just from solar.

That sounds like a fun project. As you figure out how to attach the panel to the bike, remember that you can more than double your effective output by keeping the panel pretty much perpendicular to the sun. Being able to tip the panel (or the bike) REALLY helps with getting the charging done in a reasonable time. I just put the back end up on a bucket and re-aim it once every couple of hours. When I had a 190 Whr pack, it took less than three hours(e.g. 8-11am). With a 480Whr pack it takes a good deal longer - like 6-8 hours.

How big is your pack ?

solar_aug.jpg
 
icerider said:
That sounds like a fun project. As you figure out how to attach the panel to the bike, remember that you can more than double your effective output by keeping the panel pretty much perpendicular to the sun. Being able to tip the panel (or the bike) REALLY helps with getting the charging done in a reasonable time. I just put the back end up on a bucket and re-aim it once every couple of hours. When I had a 190 Whr pack, it took less than three hours(e.g. 8-11am). With a 480Whr pack it takes a good deal longer - like 6-8 hours.

How big is your pack ?


It depends to some extent on how hot I charge it, I try to keep my charge to 4.0v per cell and there I have about 800 wh, If I push the charge to 4.1v it's closer to 1.1 kwh or so, I don't like to run it much below 3.6v either so I have a bit of breathing room on either end of the charge curve, it's basically 144 laptop cells in 12s12p configuration and soon to be 14s12p which should add another 200 wh or so to the pack, it's built for a long haul and reliability/maintainability rather than sheer performance.

I have a big, long wheelbase bent, finding a place to put the panel shouldn't be too difficult, I already have a trailer it would be dead easy to mount the panel on but I'd rather have it incorporated on the bike.
 
Something about going solar and Arizona. I recently got back from riding my solar e-trike for over a week at Burning Man. Also used the Renogy panels, two of them in series in an aluminum frame I made supported by fiberglass poles, about 12 lbs altogether. My wife and I took turns riding the 56 miles of internal streets and checking out the artwork on the playa. Several times I rode the perimeter fence, about 9 miles, always counter-clockwise of course, sometimes going several miles without seeing anyone--something few at Burning Man can say. By sunset the battery was fully charged, ready for a night tour of the playa and by the time I got up, it was fully charged. Having a fully charged battery became monotonous. Going solar is costly, but the geek satisfaction of being free from the plug--priceless. The e-trike is designed for touring, so I was always towing a trailer with a slow moving vehicle emblem on the back. Speed limit on Burning Man streets is 5 mph.

GOPR0041.jpg


For more: http://www.soltechdesigns.com/soltech-solar-etrike/index.html
 
Busybee said:
Something about going solar and Arizona. I recently got back from riding my solar e-trike for over a week at Burning Man. Also used the Renogy panels, two of them in series in an aluminum frame I made supported by fiberglass poles, about 12 lbs altogether. My wife and I took turns riding the 56 miles of internal streets and checking out the artwork on the playa. Several times I rode the perimeter fence, about 9 miles, always counter-clockwise of course, sometimes going several miles without seeing anyone--something few at Burning Man can say. By sunset the battery was fully charged, ready for a night tour of the playa and by the time I got up, it was fully charged. Having a fully charged battery became monotonous. Going solar is costly, but the geek satisfaction of being free from the plug--priceless. The e-trike is designed for touring, so I was always towing a trailer with a slow moving vehicle emblem on the back. Speed limit on Burning Man streets is 5 mph.

I really like that design. I have been thinking about a second panel and about moving the panel forward on the bike to provide more shade. Nice work, I may be compelled to copy this.... but first, I am going to get out and do some touring.
 
Two panels at burning man sounds perfect. No high speed riding so the wind drag hardly matters. But the shade as you ride could be priceless.

E trikes rule at burning man. All through august I was talking to folks on the E-bikekit chat about their burning man trike. I just got an email from a guy who said his trike was great at the man, but he had one big problem, finding his trike in a sea of trikes.

I just thought, what the heck, you didn't decorate it enough.

These new lightweight solar panels are going to be a real game changer for long distance ebikes, as long as the rider doesn't want to travel 30 mph. I just blew my fun budget for months on a new battery, but for sure one panel and the voltage converter are on the list for next spring.

I'd love to be able to ride into the sticks, then just sit in a camp charging enough to get back to plugs. The sides of my panniers are about 30" x 16" So two panels about that size would carry great on my longtail. I'm thinking more in terms of charge stationary though.
 
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