Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[TerrySavace]

@smdub - could you link me to the type of polycarbonate you used for your OSET battery?
@Hawaiiguy - ill take a look at the G10 stuff. Proper nightmare this is

Im going to contact a metal smith today from the town i live in, and see the cost on getting a box welded together, have 3d printed a test box to make sure it fits. Will keep everyone posted!

 

[smdub]

I probably had it sitting around. You can get it from places like McMaster or your local plastics distributor. Below is the link to McMaster. Notice they also carry 90deg angles. These can be glued onto the edges of sheets (on the inside or out) to help form strong boxes.
https://www.mcmaster.com/polycarbonate

 

[smdub]

Those w/ the BAC8000/Nucular 24F, how may peak phase amps will the motor take? I got my litespeed battery in this week and tested w/ my Nuc24F. It's set to 400A which is a blast but wondering if more peak is safe.

 

[fechter]

The motor can take more for short bursts. Temperature is the limiting factor.

 

[Amaxophobie]

Be careful if you use an aftermarket controller such as Nucular or BAC regarding the field weakening. I have demagnetised my magnets with Nuc 24F and 20s15p VTC6 combination last summer when going max speed for around 10 seconds. Temperature from sensor never exceeded 98° celsius so the magnets had to be waaaaay hotter than the windings. After letting go of the throttle the motor temps rised from 85° to 98° in the next 30 seconds which I gues came from the hot air transfering heat from magnet to winding and sensor.

I see more and more people destroy their motors while using high speeds with fw because they rely on the temp sensor on the windings, though the magnet temperature is much higher and cant be displayed.
Just a quick reminder that this boost function isn't only higly ineffective but also comes with a risk of cooking your magnets like on an induction cooker

 

[noneedlessnoise]

Be careful if you use an aftermarket controller such as Nucular or BAC regarding the field weakening. I have demagnetised my magnets with Nuc 24F and 20s15p VTC6 combination last summer when going max speed for around 10 seconds. Temperature from sensor never exceeded 98° celsius so the magnets had to be waaaaay hotter than the windings. After letting go of the throttle the motor temps rised from 85° to 98° in the next 30 seconds which I gues came from the hot air transfering heat from magnet to winding and sensor.

I see more and more people destroy their motors while using high speeds with fw because they rely on the temp sensor on the windings, though the magnet temperature is much higher and cant be displayed.
Just a quick reminder that this boost function isn't only higly ineffective but also comes with a risk of cooking your magnets like on an induction cooker

Why not just disable FW? Your battery and controller combo, what was the max amps you were putting into the motor? That could've been a factor. Sounds like you were pushing close to 30kw at peak? That's crazy for this platform.

 

[Amaxophobie]

Why not just disable FW?

Because my bike only runs around 75 kp/h without fw and the last 10 kp/h are really weak in terms of acceleration. FW kicks in way before nominal rpm is reached so you can compensate this deficit.

Your battery and controller combo, what was the max amps you were putting into the motor?

500A phase current, 288A battery current, 20700W of max power (but only with full battery). On the top speed run I set up fw at 500A.

That could've been a factor

I'm no expert in terms of motor controlling, let alone field weakening. But I believe that without fw you can rely on the temps from the sensor inside the windings as the windings and magnets have +- the same temperatur.
Now with fw that changes because the magnets get heated up more than the windings, which makes the values of the temp sensor not representative for the hottest part of the motor. I've seen people use this motor up to 115° celsius without any issues which is way higher than my 98°at which my magnets were demagnetised. Hence my warning to use it carefully.

Maybe some expert here on ES could verify my thoughts about this topic. At best with a reasonable explanation.

 

[SlowCo]

I'm no expert in terms of motor controlling, let alone field weakening. But I believe that without fw you can rely on the temps from the sensor inside the windings as the windings and magnets have +- the same temperatur.
Now with fw that changes because the magnets get heated up more than the windings, which makes the values of the temp sensor not representative for the hottest part of the motor. I've seen people use this motor up to 115° celsius without any issues which is way higher than my 98°at which my magnets were demagnetised.

Maybe time for forced air cooling of the motor after replacing the magnets or motor? Like Nuxland did on his go kart build:https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=68543&start=100(scroll down 5 posts)

 

[baja ho]

New member here; I have just a couple of questions, My Sur-Ron battery died ( will not power the bike & no readout on the screen). Doe's anybody know of a reputable company that can troubleshoot and or repair this battery? Also thinking of buying a new Sur-Ron battery from this company in China, has anybody dealt with them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dan
https://www.elecycles.com/sur-ron-light-bee-60v-battery.html

 

[fechter]

New member here; I have just a couple of questions, My Sur-Ron battery died ( will not power the bike & no readout on the screen).

Try this before giving up:

Awaking the Battery after Auto-Sleep mode:
1. Plug the charger into the Main power. Do not turn on the charger, then insert the charger into the battery charge port.
2. Turn on the main power, the moment, the red and green indicators of the charger will alternately blink, turn off the charger and then on again.
3. The red indicator of the charger will blink fast (0.5 second per time). The blink time will last to 20 seconds.
4. After the 20 second blink, the red indicator will be a constant light for 10 seconds. During this 10 seconds, turn off at the power point and then on for one time.
5. After Step 4, the “Forced Charging” function of the charger will be turned on. Then, the charger will work normally

No idea about the alternate battery seller, but it looks like the real thing in the picture.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Be careful if you use an aftermarket controller such as Nucular or BAC regarding the field weakening. I have demagnetised my magnets with Nuc 24F and 20s15p VTC6 combination last summer when going max speed for around 10 seconds. Temperature from sensor never exceeded 98° celsius so the magnets had to be waaaaay hotter than the windings. After letting go of the throttle the motor temps rised from 85° to 98° in the next 30 seconds which I gues came from the hot air transfering heat from magnet to winding and sensor.

I see more and more people destroy their motors while using high speeds with fw because they rely on the temp sensor on the windings, though the magnet temperature is much higher and cant be displayed.
Just a quick reminder that this boost function isn't only higly ineffective but also comes with a risk of cooking your magnets like on an induction cooker

i dont see how field weakening could cause so much heat. the magnets will get hotter due to greater iron losses from the increased electrical rpm but I think that would be the only way the magnet temp increases with FW other than the heat that's transferred from the stator. how much faster does it go using fw?

 

[baja ho]

by fechter » Mar 30 2021 7:12am

baja ho wrote: ↑Mar 29 2021 5:38pm
New member here; I have just a couple of questions, My Sur-Ron battery died ( will not power the bike & no readout on the screen).
"Try this before giving up:"
I believe I tried something similar to this, but will give this a try. Oh one thing, the charger that I have doe's not have an on/off switch, as soon as you plug it in the power is on, will this make a difference to the steps you suggested?

 

[fechter]

Oh one thing, the charger that I have doe's not have an on/off switch, as soon as you plug it in the power is on, will this make a difference to the steps you suggested?

No, other than instead of turning "turning on main power", you simply plug in the charger. My charger doesn't have a switch either.

 

[X-Nitro]

New member here; thinking of buying a new Sur-Ron battery from this company in China, has anybody dealt with them. Dan
https://www.elecycles.com/sur-ron-light-bee-60v-battery.html

I bought a battery from them last year, it was shipped out of a so-cal holding company, I got it in less than a week. :thumb:

 

[smdub]

I lowered my SurRon (sort of a DIY X160) to make sure my son was big enough to ride it. The test was a success so I put another one on pre-order. Well, a local X160 turned up for sale this week and I bought it. It has the same brake and kick stand interlocks as my SurRon but they don't do anything. I dug behind the key switch and they are still plugged into the harness. I guess I should test the tip-over sensor too.

Anyone here have a X160 or X260 and can confirm they are supposed to work (or not)?

 

[KeithT]

I find it interesting that my '16 Zero FX does not have a tip over sensor. I remember dumping it at the bottom of a very steep downhill, and the throttle was pinned in the dirt with the rear wheel up. Wow, that's some crazy RPM! Cant get to the key or kill switch with the bike flipped. Finally do get it shut off and it winds down for a long time. Certainly could be dangerous. My SurRon is not as scary but so far I'm not disconnecting the tip-over sensor.

 

[ggHawk]

I also had some experiences with my '15 Zero FX that made me want to keep the tip sensor connected on my SurRon (I bought from Luna). I immediately disconnected the other SurRon cut-out sensors (brakes, kick). After almost a year, I think the tip sensor still works (been a while since I tested it though).

 

[sens_dep]

Anyone know of good turn signals for the front shocks?

I used to use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D6JN2S...abc_48SZ44XWZX8VMH2MRMKH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1, but the new models don’t actually work with a 12v flasher. If the white light is powered, amber is solid. They seem to be shorting because it breaks the back turn signals I use too, they simply don’t work.

I’ve opted to remove the white running light and my whole system works now. Very strange. I contacted the manufacturer and haven’t gotten a response yet.

 

[fechter]

I have what look like the same signal lights. I had to place a load resistor across the amber input to ground to make the flasher work. I think I used 150 ohm resistors. It's pretty common to need load resistors when using LED lights with a flasher. My load resistors were installed in the rear signal lights.

Another trick I figured out was to slide a long, skinny zip tie through the tube that holds the LEDs so it wraps tightly against the fork without stretching the tube.

 

[Hawaiiguy]

I also had some experiences with my '15 Zero FX that made me want to keep the tip sensor connected on my SurRon (I bought from Luna). I immediately disconnected the other SurRon cut-out sensors (brakes, kick). After almost a year, I think the tip sensor still works (been a while since I tested it though).

I installed a kill switch that cuts power if my hand comes off the handlebar( lanyard type kill switch)after installing a Bac8000 as all the safeties are removed on installation .

 

[KeithT]

I just removed my tip sensor, pretty sure it is bad. I ride a lot of very rough trail, perhaps it wears somehow. It rattles but that's no surprise. Hopefully my intermittent troubles are now over. And I've now been into every nook an cranny of the machine, well at least all the wiring. So there's dielectric grease where it should be, all connectors are cared for. Had some rust on the top controller bracket, the screws are good but the steel weld nuts rust. Had to drill one out to get under the controller.

 

[sens_dep]

I have what look like the same signal lights. I had to place a load resistor across the amber input to ground to make the flasher work. I think I used 150 ohm resistors. It's pretty common to need load resistors when using LED lights with a flasher. My load resistors were installed in the rear signal lights.

Another trick I figured out was to slide a long, skinny zip tie through the tube that holds the LEDs so it wraps tightly against the fork without stretching the tube.

Img_0893.jpg

15 ohm from the amber light straight to ground? Huh. I’ll try that. What wattage resistor? will just .5w work?

 

[fechter]

150 ohms not 15. 1/2 w should be good.

 

[sc-surfer]

New member here; thinking of buying a new Sur-Ron battery from this company in China, has anybody dealt with them. Dan
https://www.elecycles.com/sur-ron-light-bee-60v-battery.html

I bought a battery from them last year, it was shipped out of a so-cal holding company, I got it in less than a week. :thumb:

Yep. I bought from them. Took me a little longer. Maybe 3-4 weeks but had tracking all the way. Arrived intact and works perfectly. I beat Luna’s price by $500….and weren’t even in stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[sens_dep]

150 ohms not 15. 1/2 w should be good.

Oh my bad, typing too fast again. Thanks for the tip