Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[Hawaiiguy]

I drilled from the top.start the hole with a smaller bit and use a punch to make a start dimple.

 

[BCTECH]

And what is the best size to fit the stock kickstand? Any link of that leveling pad?

 

[speedmd]

A rubber faced leveling foot would be nice in showrooms, but may not last long in this app. I would just use a standard hex head bolt and sturdy bushing (cut section of Pipe) to get the correct extension if it were mine. The bushing would allow even a smaller diameter bolt to be much more sturdy. Washers would work also. 5/16" or 8mm should be plenty strong.

 

[Finer]

I've needed to extend a few kickstands over the years. I just took them down to a local welding shop. They cut them, weld in a short section, grind it smooth and repaint. Looks factory and usually $20 to $25.

 

[Ttwinsupra]

Need help with these brakes, every video i see people just slip on new pads, but mine wouldn't fit on! I took of the calipers and put in new pads, i tried to push on the pad with a flat head and tried to pry them apart before i even removed the old pads and they are not budging at all! What do i do do i have to bleed this ish!?! Ahhh i cant ride my bike! Need to ride this tonight!!! Whyyyyy?!?!

 

[TerrySavace]

So, im building my own 72V battery for a surron - I need a case to put the battery in, does anyone know anywhere you can just buy after market surron battery cases? or any 3d printed STL files ?

Or where i could buy an empty surron battery case?


Thanks all

Terry

 

[smdub]

I've looked. I don't think anything exists. I've thought about putting some aluminum through the brake and then welding the two halves together to form the rectanglular tube but that is beyond most peoples equipment. Even if you could 3D print something, you want GOOD impact protection which I don't think 3D printing can really provide. (Think of the fire hazard contained inside those little metal cans if you case is punctured and shorts something.) The sides of the SurRon batt are exposed through the frame to large rocks, etc if you ride offroad. LiteSpeed looks to use polycarbonate sheets glued together into a box. That seems like one of the best (and easiest) idea. Its easy to glue together and tough as nails. I solvent welded (glued) a polycarbonate housing for the LiPo pack I made for the kid's OSET bike.

 

[Hawaiiguy]

Best material would be G10 made from 1/8 to 3/16 sheet and fiberglass the corners.G10 is tough stuff but cuts easy enough.I do have a extra Surron case.

 

[TerrySavace]

@smdub - could you link me to the type of polycarbonate you used for your OSET battery?
@Hawaiiguy - ill take a look at the G10 stuff. Proper nightmare this is

Im going to contact a metal smith today from the town i live in, and see the cost on getting a box welded together, have 3d printed a test box to make sure it fits. Will keep everyone posted!

 

[smdub]

I probably had it sitting around. You can get it from places like McMaster or your local plastics distributor. Below is the link to McMaster. Notice they also carry 90deg angles. These can be glued onto the edges of sheets (on the inside or out) to help form strong boxes.
https://www.mcmaster.com/polycarbonate

 

[smdub]

Those w/ the BAC8000/Nucular 24F, how may peak phase amps will the motor take? I got my litespeed battery in this week and tested w/ my Nuc24F. It's set to 400A which is a blast but wondering if more peak is safe.

 

[fechter]

The motor can take more for short bursts. Temperature is the limiting factor.

 

[Amaxophobie]

Be careful if you use an aftermarket controller such as Nucular or BAC regarding the field weakening. I have demagnetised my magnets with Nuc 24F and 20s15p VTC6 combination last summer when going max speed for around 10 seconds. Temperature from sensor never exceeded 98° celsius so the magnets had to be waaaaay hotter than the windings. After letting go of the throttle the motor temps rised from 85° to 98° in the next 30 seconds which I gues came from the hot air transfering heat from magnet to winding and sensor.

I see more and more people destroy their motors while using high speeds with fw because they rely on the temp sensor on the windings, though the magnet temperature is much higher and cant be displayed.
Just a quick reminder that this boost function isn't only higly ineffective but also comes with a risk of cooking your magnets like on an induction cooker

 

[noneedlessnoise]

Be careful if you use an aftermarket controller such as Nucular or BAC regarding the field weakening. I have demagnetised my magnets with Nuc 24F and 20s15p VTC6 combination last summer when going max speed for around 10 seconds. Temperature from sensor never exceeded 98° celsius so the magnets had to be waaaaay hotter than the windings. After letting go of the throttle the motor temps rised from 85° to 98° in the next 30 seconds which I gues came from the hot air transfering heat from magnet to winding and sensor.

I see more and more people destroy their motors while using high speeds with fw because they rely on the temp sensor on the windings, though the magnet temperature is much higher and cant be displayed.
Just a quick reminder that this boost function isn't only higly ineffective but also comes with a risk of cooking your magnets like on an induction cooker

Why not just disable FW? Your battery and controller combo, what was the max amps you were putting into the motor? That could've been a factor. Sounds like you were pushing close to 30kw at peak? That's crazy for this platform.

 

[Amaxophobie]

Why not just disable FW?

Because my bike only runs around 75 kp/h without fw and the last 10 kp/h are really weak in terms of acceleration. FW kicks in way before nominal rpm is reached so you can compensate this deficit.

Your battery and controller combo, what was the max amps you were putting into the motor?

500A phase current, 288A battery current, 20700W of max power (but only with full battery). On the top speed run I set up fw at 500A.

That could've been a factor

I'm no expert in terms of motor controlling, let alone field weakening. But I believe that without fw you can rely on the temps from the sensor inside the windings as the windings and magnets have +- the same temperatur.
Now with fw that changes because the magnets get heated up more than the windings, which makes the values of the temp sensor not representative for the hottest part of the motor. I've seen people use this motor up to 115° celsius without any issues which is way higher than my 98°at which my magnets were demagnetised. Hence my warning to use it carefully.

Maybe some expert here on ES could verify my thoughts about this topic. At best with a reasonable explanation.

 

[SlowCo]

I'm no expert in terms of motor controlling, let alone field weakening. But I believe that without fw you can rely on the temps from the sensor inside the windings as the windings and magnets have +- the same temperatur.
Now with fw that changes because the magnets get heated up more than the windings, which makes the values of the temp sensor not representative for the hottest part of the motor. I've seen people use this motor up to 115° celsius without any issues which is way higher than my 98°at which my magnets were demagnetised.

Maybe time for forced air cooling of the motor after replacing the magnets or motor? Like Nuxland did on his go kart build:https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=68543&start=100(scroll down 5 posts)

 

[baja ho]

New member here; I have just a couple of questions, My Sur-Ron battery died ( will not power the bike & no readout on the screen). Doe's anybody know of a reputable company that can troubleshoot and or repair this battery? Also thinking of buying a new Sur-Ron battery from this company in China, has anybody dealt with them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dan
https://www.elecycles.com/sur-ron-light-bee-60v-battery.html

 

[fechter]

New member here; I have just a couple of questions, My Sur-Ron battery died ( will not power the bike & no readout on the screen).

Try this before giving up:

Awaking the Battery after Auto-Sleep mode:
1. Plug the charger into the Main power. Do not turn on the charger, then insert the charger into the battery charge port.
2. Turn on the main power, the moment, the red and green indicators of the charger will alternately blink, turn off the charger and then on again.
3. The red indicator of the charger will blink fast (0.5 second per time). The blink time will last to 20 seconds.
4. After the 20 second blink, the red indicator will be a constant light for 10 seconds. During this 10 seconds, turn off at the power point and then on for one time.
5. After Step 4, the “Forced Charging” function of the charger will be turned on. Then, the charger will work normally

No idea about the alternate battery seller, but it looks like the real thing in the picture.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Be careful if you use an aftermarket controller such as Nucular or BAC regarding the field weakening. I have demagnetised my magnets with Nuc 24F and 20s15p VTC6 combination last summer when going max speed for around 10 seconds. Temperature from sensor never exceeded 98° celsius so the magnets had to be waaaaay hotter than the windings. After letting go of the throttle the motor temps rised from 85° to 98° in the next 30 seconds which I gues came from the hot air transfering heat from magnet to winding and sensor.

I see more and more people destroy their motors while using high speeds with fw because they rely on the temp sensor on the windings, though the magnet temperature is much higher and cant be displayed.
Just a quick reminder that this boost function isn't only higly ineffective but also comes with a risk of cooking your magnets like on an induction cooker

i dont see how field weakening could cause so much heat. the magnets will get hotter due to greater iron losses from the increased electrical rpm but I think that would be the only way the magnet temp increases with FW other than the heat that's transferred from the stator. how much faster does it go using fw?

 

[baja ho]

by fechter » Mar 30 2021 7:12am

baja ho wrote: ↑Mar 29 2021 5:38pm
New member here; I have just a couple of questions, My Sur-Ron battery died ( will not power the bike & no readout on the screen).
"Try this before giving up:"
I believe I tried something similar to this, but will give this a try. Oh one thing, the charger that I have doe's not have an on/off switch, as soon as you plug it in the power is on, will this make a difference to the steps you suggested?

 

[fechter]

Oh one thing, the charger that I have doe's not have an on/off switch, as soon as you plug it in the power is on, will this make a difference to the steps you suggested?

No, other than instead of turning "turning on main power", you simply plug in the charger. My charger doesn't have a switch either.

 

[X-Nitro]

New member here; thinking of buying a new Sur-Ron battery from this company in China, has anybody dealt with them. Dan
https://www.elecycles.com/sur-ron-light-bee-60v-battery.html

I bought a battery from them last year, it was shipped out of a so-cal holding company, I got it in less than a week. :thumb:

 

[smdub]

I lowered my SurRon (sort of a DIY X160) to make sure my son was big enough to ride it. The test was a success so I put another one on pre-order. Well, a local X160 turned up for sale this week and I bought it. It has the same brake and kick stand interlocks as my SurRon but they don't do anything. I dug behind the key switch and they are still plugged into the harness. I guess I should test the tip-over sensor too.

Anyone here have a X160 or X260 and can confirm they are supposed to work (or not)?

 

[KeithT]

I find it interesting that my '16 Zero FX does not have a tip over sensor. I remember dumping it at the bottom of a very steep downhill, and the throttle was pinned in the dirt with the rear wheel up. Wow, that's some crazy RPM! Cant get to the key or kill switch with the bike flipped. Finally do get it shut off and it winds down for a long time. Certainly could be dangerous. My SurRon is not as scary but so far I'm not disconnecting the tip-over sensor.

 

[ggHawk]

I also had some experiences with my '15 Zero FX that made me want to keep the tip sensor connected on my SurRon (I bought from Luna). I immediately disconnected the other SurRon cut-out sensors (brakes, kick). After almost a year, I think the tip sensor still works (been a while since I tested it though).