Thanks to Chris at Lectric Cycles

[Sunder]

Alright. Since mine was the first negative post, I felt I needed to either confirm or allay my suspicion that this was a sponsored post.

Based on what I can find, Mike is on the opposite side of the country to Lectriccycles, and appears to be who he says he is. I'm fairly convinced he's not a Lectriccycle employee, and I couldn't find any pages on Google that include both Mike's full name and any of the founders or managers of Lectric Cycle's registered companies.

The photos in Mike's original post also match his home address, which I am, frankly, shocked that I could find within 15 seconds on the internet. Nice house by the way, end of a cul-de-sac, right on the water. I'm jealous.

So, if it helps tone down this thread, my apologies. Mike appears to be completely legitimate.

 

[Alan B]

In this "age of the internet" why should a small internet based business be paying people to answer the phone? Is that really a good thing to be driving up their cost of doing business? Can't customers interact via the net and allow a small company remain efficient and avoid unnecessary costs?

When companies hire people to answer the phone you generally don't get the technical expertise you want anyway. And you know that you are paying for extra people when you buy their product.

If they charged the caller for the cost of maintaining the phone answering capability, what would it cost? $100 per hour? Would you want to pay that for the privilege of being able to call them and get "instant answers"? Or do you want to distract them so they aren't shipping your order, or doing the myriad other things that a small business needs to do with the few people it has.

My experience is that they answer most emails within hours, not days.

At any rate, Lectric Cycle and Lunacycle are free to choose how they conduct business, and customers are free to select who they do business with. We don't have to agree, and we should have choices.

Thanks for showing us your bike, it is good to see they have some products that are appropriately priced.

 

[amberwolf]

I just don't get it - if they are selling all the product you guys say, then why can't they afford to hire someone to answer the phone or get off their duff and answer the phone themselves like other respectable companies do?

Not defending anyone here but apparently Luna *has* actually been trying to hire people from ES to do phone, forum, and email support. Don't know how successful they've been.

BTW, you never did answer my question in the first reply to your thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82282#p1208310

 

[IdleUp]

Welcome IdleUp. That looks like a wonderful full suspension bike, and I think you will be very happy for a long time with a mid drive like that. I am seeing more 27.5 wheels off-road, and the 2.4-inch wide tires combined with the suspension should provide a plush ride.

This particular forum is mostly "install it myself" kit guys (as I suppose you have surmised by now), but...I believe there is a place in the world for turn-key ebikes, and there's nothing wrong with paying a little extra to get an ebike fast and complete.

Since you mention RC experience, I am going to assume you already have a digital multimeter. its is by far the first tool for diagnosing minor issues that can pop up on any ebike. I recommend buying a spare throttle from the same vendor. Its not that the throttle is the most often seen issue, its just that its the easiest part to swap-in and check, plus they are cheap. I recommend getting a small tube of di-electric silicone grease from an auto parts store, and dabbing all the connectors with it (the plugs and socket pins). Doing this adds a little extra water-proofing from moisture shorts.

SpinningMagnets thanks for the friendly reply - I know from reading about electric bikes for years, you're the "Go To" guy when it comes to electrics. I would like to apologize to the members and administrators for the tone of this post - I had no idea I would be attacked for just posting some images and a few comments on a bike that I really enjoy. As I mentioned, I not sponsored in in any manner, and never met the folks at Lectric Cycle prior to this purchase, they had no idea I was posting anything, i just like their professional friendly manner they offered and I bought an assembled state of the art bike for about the same money if i bought the parts and built it myself.

While I understand the value of assembling a bike myself - it's nothing like to old days, these are Bafang and hub kits take less than a few hours to install so I don't feel I'm missing much, plus I've built my share of electric bikes for years. Even the field of RC helicopters has changed, years ago, you never heard of a ready to fly model and now with drones maybe only 1-2% of the modelers build their own machines. By the way, here's a review on the Phantom 2 drone should anyone be interested.

http://www.rotory.com/drone/Phantom_II.html

Best Regards - Mike

 

[MadRhino]

You should not feel attacked personnally. It happens frequently that a new member with just a few posts history, does feed us some publicity. You have to admit that your review is looking very much like a publicity, let's say enthusiastic about a product, and negatively targeting another vendor.

We like reviews, but we like them objective and we prefer for that reason, that it is written after some reasonable testing and experience with the product.

 

[IdleUp]

You should not feel attacked personnally. It happens frequently that a new member with just a few posts history, does feed us some publicity. You have to admit that your review is looking very much like a publicity, let's say enthusiastic about a product, and negatively targeting another vendor.

We like reviews, but we like them objective and we prefer for that reason, that it is written after some reasonable testing and experience with the product.

Hell yes I'm happy about the bike - how many times does a guy get a new car or bike and be sad about it? Don't know about other guys, but I work 12-18 hour days and travel and when I can buy a bike assembled for about the same price as if i did it myself - it makes me real happy! Most important, I don't deal with with answering services, recording and mail box full crap - that's what's wrong with this country now most are too damn lazy to answer a phone and depend on goofy social media for conversation. Also, There was nothing negative about Luna in my original overview, in fact I gave them the benefit and assumed they were on vacation not until I started reading around did I find out that phone calls were not on their agenda.

Thanks - Mike

 

[overvolted]

Beautiful bike, IdleUp!

Don't let the haters on this thread throw you off. They're either jealous of your build or they're acting out due to their own inadequacies –– their rudeness has nothing to do with your post.

I just built up something very similar using a 2015 Giant Anthem 3 that has the same rear shock and the same brakes as your bike. I used a LunaCycle-purchased BBSHD along with a GearSensor shift sensor and I'm quite happy with it.

I did buy a 92mm-100mm bottom bracket adapter from Lectric Cycles for my 100mm BBSHD, however, it didn't work as well as I'd hoped, so I ended up using the EMPowered Cycles adapter kit, which is much better. In retrospect, having a 92mm BBSHD would be an even better solution, but I'd already bought my motor before I found out that Lectric Cycles made a 92mm Bafang mid-drive.

In the end, I probably ended up spending somewhere around what you spent. My build was pretty frustrating and lengthy. There were a lot of stretches of time when I was waiting for a tool or a part to arrive before I could take the next step in the install, and there were a lot of strange tools that I had to order online in order to get the project done...things like a bottom bracket remover tool for Press Fit BBs, the Lectric Cycles (and later the superior EMPowered Cycles) 92mm/100mm adapters, et cetera. I also switched out my standard Shimano Deore 10 speed shifter/derailleur for a 7 speed so that I wouldn't have to shift so much. I'm glad I made that decision, although now I want to see if I can make it a 5-speed. This motor is so powerful and accelerates so fast that I want to minimize the amount of shifting that I have to do so that I can just let the motor do its work uninterrupted.

Are you running that bike without brake motor inhibitors? I've tried installing the magnet and sensor for the brake cutoffs that came with my kit but I've been having trouble finding a good mounting position for the sensor and the magnet with these brakes.

 

[WoodlandHills]

It is hard to find a good picture of an M396 lever, but it looks like you could hot glue a magnet to the lever and tie-wrap the sensor onto the reservoir. I have Avid hydraulic brakes and I used hot glue to put a neodymium magnet onto the knob that adjusts the reach of the lever. It has shown no sign of coming loose even after a pretty hard crash...... I found 1/8" high power magnets inside of a set of refrigerator magnets at the craft store! I just cracked them like walnuts with a pair of vise grips: the plastic goes flying, but the magnets stick to the grips.

 

[Ebike4me]

Thanks for the detailed info and pics.. Great looking bike..
I too like the turn key approach.. As you pointed out, the
DIY approach for parts alone is quite costly.. I don't mind paying
The extra cost to have it assembled and tested and ready to go..
I'll do the maintenance and upgrades, etc..
What options did you get? I would like to get one as well.. I currently
Have a iZip E3 peak which does ok on the trail.. But I want a full
Suspension setup and full throttle control..
Thanks..

 

[Green Machine]

I just don't understand the math.

I went to this link to find that bike http://www.lectriccycles.com/e-rad-mid-drive-2016-giant-stance-2/

I put in a basic bbs02 system with basic battery and charger....it came to $3400. Also if i can buy the same stance bike easily on the web for $1200
and to add a luna bbs02 and battery is at most 1k and my cost is no more than $2200 still 1200 cheaper than Lectric for 4 hours of assembly work and i guess some phone time.


Ok so maybe Luna does not offer complete bikes and its hard to compare and therefore not fair to compare.

Or maybe starting tonight its time Luna starts playing the complete bike game because in my mind $3400 is a lot of money to pay for that bike. And i think the price should be fairer.

Here is a comparable full suspension bike for $1850 http://lunacycle.com/gravity-ebike-fsx-275LTD-complete-electric-bike/

Nearly half the price of the Lectric giant conversion.... so now you have something fair to compare.





And that stuff about special gear sensor firmware and hardened axle and special bottom bracket spacing for the giant almost made me spit up in my lap laughing.....that is pure marketing nonsense.

 

[Ebike4me]

The Luna gravity bike you refer and compare to is a $329 bike from bikes direct vs
The $1500 for the Giant stance 2. Not quite a fair comparison..

I just don't understand the math.

I went to this link to find that bike http://www.lectriccycles.com/e-rad-mid-drive-2016-giant-stance-2/

I put in a basic bbs02 system with basic battery and charger....it came to $3400. Also if i can buy the same stance bike easily on the web for $1200
and to add a luna bbs02 and battery is at most 1k and my cost is no more than $2200 still 1200 cheaper than Lectric for 4 hours of assembly work.


Ok so maybe Luna does not offer complete bikes and its hard to compare and therefore not fair to compare.

Or maybe starting tonight its time Luna starts playing the complete bike game because in my mind $3400 is a lot of money to pay for that bike. And i think the price should be fairer.

Here is a comparable full suspension bike for $1850 http://lunacycle.com/gravity-ebike-fsx-275LTD-complete-electric-bike/

Nearly half the price of the Lectric giant conversion.... so now you have something fair to compare.

And that stuff about special gear sensor firmware and hardened axle and special bottom bracket spacing for the giant almost made me spit up in my lap laughing.....that is pure marketing nonsense.

 

[Green Machine]

your math doesnt make sense....

why do you make up numbers?

show me where you can get that gravity bike for 329.

And i will show you where anyone can get that giant for 1200... http://wheelworld.com/product/giant-stance-27.5-2-237634-1.htm?variations=67903,67914&gclid=CjwKEAjw5vu8BRC8rIGNrqbPuSESJADG8RV0GtySQktFJaBJo9ZqPBp83BQa_wPK-3nc_xP1gpvRKRoCwwHw_wcB

And the only reason the giant is 1200 is because of the shitty rockshocks which aint woth their weight in pennies.

to prove my point i can order 10 giants tomorrow and throw kits on them if you wish and sale that bike EAISLY for $1000 less than lectiric and still make fair money.....

And why dont you tell us what you paid for that bike with shipping ? close to 4k?

You seem very similar to lectrics game plan...which is to throw up elablorate smoke screens. There is too much deception in this post for it to be a legitimate review.

anyone on this forum can do better...... build bike and charge 1k for building fees....

 

[WoodlandHills]

The Luna gravity bike you refer and compare to is a $329 bike from bikes direct vs
The $1500 for the Giant stance 2. Not quite a fair comparison..[./quote]


FWIW that's currently a $449 bike: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/650b-27.5-bikes-fsx-275ltd.htm

 

[Green Machine]

Thats right and i know a good value....same as you....


just do the math..... i am not making 1k on each bike

where its clear lectric cycle is making way more than 1k on every 2k plus sale they do.

I encourage everyone to buy their own bike and build their own..... if we have to build it then we take on the liability. (WE DO HAVE INSURANCE) .. but we still dont need to gouge our customer base even if they cant build .....

some day everyone will appreciate what luna has one ....we have set these price gougers straight.

We are not a bully.

Lectric cycle WAS the biggist dealer of bafang products in the usa...... they did everything to try to slow us ...i got the nasty letters i got the lawyer threats..... guess what they arent the biggest anymore and i bet they have plenty of time for phone time.


this is a revolution.

luna cycle set out to make all this cool shit affordable...... and we left complete bikes out of it.....

but its esasy enough to put together a bike and sell complete bikes if we are kcked hard enough.


OP , Tell your boss this post kicked a sleeping giant. I am pissed off.

As of tonight luna cycle is selling complete bikes. And if we want we will chosse the same bikes llectric ccyles does...its not hard to buy giants, towneys, khs etc..... but i think we have better judgement and we will pick better bikes.

i really dont care.


Its a disgrace to throw your brand name on something like a giant bike with a bafang kit on it...i dont care if you brand the bafang an erad..... we can throw a bafang on a whatever bike and still call it what it is.

but charge a lot less money we will always call it what it is and not put some bull shit label on it and call it something different or say stupid shit over the phone like hardened axles or special firm ware....or whatever "erad" special sauce they can reason is woth over paying a thousand dollars for.

 

[tomjasz]

e-RAD’s modified Bafang 350 watt mid-drive system. Pure Bullshirt! The only difference is the label.

Seriously? Am I miss reading this? It's a BBS02 and a discontinued version too? BTW the only modification that no one else has is the label, the rest is pure sales bull.

I've purchased 7 systems and have only spoken to someone on one sale. Being able to be talked at with a one, and get sold old stock is a priveledge I can pass on.

 

[IdleUp]

I just don't understand the math.

I went to this link to find that bike http://www.lectriccycles.com/e-rad-mid-drive-2016-giant-stance-2/

I put in a basic bbs02 system with basic battery and charger....it came to $3400. Also if i can buy the same stance bike easily on the web for $1200
and to add a luna bbs02 and battery is at most 1k and my cost is no more than $2200 still 1200 cheaper than Lectric for 4 hours of assembly work and i guess some phone time.


Ok so maybe Luna does not offer complete bikes and its hard to compare and therefore not fair to compare.

Or maybe starting tonight its time Luna starts playing the complete bike game because in my mind $3400 is a lot of money to pay for that bike. And i think the price should be fairer.

Here is a comparable full suspension bike for $1850 http://lunacycle.com/gravity-ebike-fsx-275LTD-complete-electric-bike/

Nearly half the price of the Lectric giant conversion.... so now you have something fair to compare.


And that stuff about special gear sensor firmware and hardened axle and special bottom bracket spacing for the giant almost made me spit up in my lap laughing.....that is pure marketing nonsense.

Thanks guys for the many positive posts on my Giant from Lectric Cycle - as I mentioned, I originally went to Luna and after 3-4 days of Goofy messages and no return phone calls, I looked else where and found the guys at Lectric which turned out best because after I added up the equipment from Luna (see my post) and the Giant bike - Lectric Cycle was within a few hundred dollars and it was all professionally built and i was riding within a few hours . . . . .The moral to this story is Luna's terrible customer relationships with new customers is profiting their competition. Waiting for call-backs is not on my agenda.

Regretfully guys - you have to put a price tag on aggravation - I would gladly pay more not to be pissed off and waiting . . . .

Regards - Mike

 

[Green Machine]

A few hundred more? That is really stretching the truth.

It looks like you paid $1000 - 1500 more to save yourself 4 hours of wrenching but you are no being forthright about what you paid nor what the same kit would cost from Luna. How the hell do you get a luna bbs02 kit up to 1400?

Here is your complete kit from Luna with all the upgrades you mentioned:

Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT(Sprocket Size: 44T, Optional Display Upgrades: Luna Full Color D..., Throttle Options: Bafang BBSxx Univ..., Have your BBS02 cut power automatically when you shift using a Gear Sensor: GearSensor for De..., Pick your ebrake cut off sensors: Magnetic sensors ..., Make it a kit by adding a top grade PANASONIC battery: Dolphin 48v GA 13..., Add a 5.5mm Smart Charger for your Battery (not included): 48v 3amp Lithium ..., Add an Adapter and Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring: 38T Black $65.00)
Quantity: 1
$1,123.00 (of course does not include all those secret sauce bs lectric is brewing like hardnened axles and special programming LMFAO)

Add the Giant Stance 2 for $1200 (i posted link earlier)

$2323 total for your bike from LUNA.


Now go the lectric site and try to get your bike in the configuration you describe.... you are already at $3500 at website face value without the color screen etc and who knows what other nonsense they hit you with while they have you on the phone.
My bet is your close to 4k with shipping......

They used way too long an extension cable for your gear sensor...at that mark up you think they could have gotten extension cables the right length.

 

[IdleUp]

A few hundred more? That is really stretching the truth.

It looks like you paid $1000 - 1500 more to save yourself 4 hours of wrenching but you are no being forthright about what you paid nor what the same kit would cost from Luna. How the hell do you get a luna bbs02 kit up to 1400?

Here is your complete kit from Luna with all the upgrades you mentioned:

Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT(Sprocket Size: 44T, Optional Display Upgrades: Luna Full Color D..., Throttle Options: Bafang BBSxx Univ..., Have your BBS02 cut power automatically when you shift using a Gear Sensor: GearSensor for De..., Pick your ebrake cut off sensors: Magnetic sensors ..., Make it a kit by adding a top grade PANASONIC battery: Dolphin 48v GA 13..., Add a 5.5mm Smart Charger for your Battery (not included): 48v 3amp Lithium ..., Add an Adapter and Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring: 38T Black $65.00)
Quantity: 1
$1,123.00 (of course does not include all those secret sauce bs lectric is brewing like hardnened axles and special programming LMFAO)

Add the Giant Stance 2 for $1200 (i posted link earlier)

$2323 total for your bike from LUNA.


Now go the lectric site and try to get your bike in the configuration you describe.... you are already at $3500 at website face value without the color screen etc and who knows what other nonsense they hit you with while they have you on the phone.
My bet is your close to 4k with shipping......

They used way too long an extension cable for your gear sensor...at that mark up you think they could have gotten extension cables the right length.

I really appreciate your concern for my spending but your math is broken! In addition I didn't just buy a relabeled Bafang drive, mine is a refined 92mm drive that fits the giant has hardened shafts improved firmware and a shift sensor that feels like an automatic transmission. Also you for to mention the 2-5 days you would have to spend putting the bike together. Best of all I can actully talk to these guys and don't have to depend on a social media relationship.

Lastly you don't pay the retail price shown any other questions?

 

[Ebike4me]

Sent you an email via your support email addr. I'm going to check this deal out and put up
My money for one of your 750w comparable setups on a 2016 Giant stance 2.
I'm looking for similar setup with throttle control in any mode, etc.. I assume
This includes the bafang with the latest updates...
Will keep you all updated..

A few hundred more? That is really stretching the truth.

It looks like you paid $1000 - 1500 more to save yourself 4 hours of wrenching but you are no being forthright about what you paid nor what the same kit would cost from Luna. How the hell do you get a luna bbs02 kit up to 1400?

Here is your complete kit from Luna with all the upgrades you mentioned:

Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT(Sprocket Size: 44T, Optional Display Upgrades: Luna Full Color D..., Throttle Options: Bafang BBSxx Univ..., Have your BBS02 cut power automatically when you shift using a Gear Sensor: GearSensor for De..., Pick your ebrake cut off sensors: Magnetic sensors ..., Make it a kit by adding a top grade PANASONIC battery: Dolphin 48v GA 13..., Add a 5.5mm Smart Charger for your Battery (not included): 48v 3amp Lithium ..., Add an Adapter and Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring: 38T Black $65.00)
Quantity: 1
$1,123.00 (of course does not include all those secret sauce bs lectric is brewing like hardnened axles and special programming LMFAO)

Add the Giant Stance 2 for $1200 (i posted link earlier)

$2323 total for your bike from LUNA.


Now go the lectric site and try to get your bike in the configuration you describe.... you are already at $3500 at website face value without the color screen etc and who knows what other nonsense they hit you with while they have you on the phone.
My bet is your close to 4k with shipping......

They used way too long an extension cable for your gear sensor...at that mark up you think they could have gotten extension cables the right length.

 

[induna]

...improved firmware and a shift sensor that feels like an automatic transmission.

Again, how do you know this other than through marketing fluff? Have you ridden a Luna Bafang with gear sensor to compare? Have you talked to anyone credible and unbiased who has? Have you seen the code in the controller or know what specific parameters were custom modified to achieve this end? Do you have any data at all to support that assertion other than what you were told by Lectriccycles? You are certainly free to express your opinions and preferences, and back them with your dollars, but please when making statements like the above which appear to be statements of 'FACT', make some effort to back them up with actual data especially when asked. It is exactly that kind of rhetoric that makes you sound like you are writing advertising copy, even if you are not.

 

[IdleUp]

...improved firmware and a shift sensor that feels like an automatic transmission.

Again, how do you know this other than through marketing fluff? Have you ridden a Luna Bafang with gear sensor to compare? Have you talked to anyone credible and unbiased who has? Have you seen the code in the controller or know what specific parameters were custom modified to achieve this end? Do you have any data at all to support that assertion other than what you were told by Lectriccycles? You are certainly free to express your opinions and preferences, and back them with your dollars, but please when making statements like the above which appear to be statements of 'FACT', make some effort to back them up with actual data especially when asked. It is exactly that kind of rhetoric that makes you sound like you are writing advertising copy, even if you are not.

Again, how do you know this other than through marketing fluff? Have you ridden a Luna Bafang with gear sensor to compare? Yes!

Have you ridden a Luna Bafang with gear sensor to compare? Yes!

Have you talked to anyone credible and unbiased who has? Yes!

Have you seen the code in the controller or know what specific parameters were custom modified to achieve this end? Yes!

 

[IdleUp]

Ok guys getting back to the Giant Stance and Bafang motor/controller. As I mentioned, I reinstalled the stock firmware to get rid of the 2 mph (safety) limit before motor engagement.

When I re-installed the stock firmware, the throttle was terrible with regard to being linear. It was more like an on/off switch than a throttle. After a big dead spot the next 20% of movement the motor would go from 0 amps to 25 and therefore 75% of the throttle movement was useless. In reading some threads, I’m not the only guy who has a complaint about this. In addition, when you start out the motor seemed to bump on rather than start smoothly.

Anyhow, I found a “Temporary Fix” to get the throttle very linear and also get rid of the harsh start. While there is hundreds of threads some up to 50 page on controller problems and programming, I figured if anyone has some input on a different controller program, I greatly appreciate the input.

I included two images below one is the original settings and the second is my modified settings. Basically, i just changed the mode from speed to current. Then lowered the start current from 11 to 9 and the start current from 10 to 1. I’m still working on the pedal assist page trying different things as well. Any ideas?

Thanks Mike

 

[rockwalk]

not cool man.

 

[slacker]

as p.t. barnum said or lectric say's there's a sucker born every minute. If you believe erads claims i have oceanfront property for sale in my home state? good luck. :lol:

 

[IdleUp]

Get Over It!