Thanks to Chris at Lectric Cycles

[Sunder]

Have you seen the code in the controller or know what specific parameters were custom modified to achieve this end? Yes!

I call bullshit. Even if you were a programmer or had had PFC experience, I would call BS. Once firmware is compiled, it's very difficult to read even when it's decompiled. I have guys working for me that can spend days trying to work out what several kilobytes of code in a Trojan does. It would take them years upon years to reverse engineer the code to run an electric bike.

If you've changed a setting using the programming cable, that's all well and good, but call it what it is. That's like hitting the power/economy button on many modern cars, then boasting how much more powerful your car is compared to another one. Or maybe more accurately, it's like most dealers shipping it on default economy mode, and another dealer shipping it on default power mode. There's actually no improvement to the engine, it's just a marketing gimmick to trap the unwary.

And since it sounds like you don't even know what firmware actually is, I'd say you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

 

[IdleUp]

Have you seen the code in the controller or know what specific parameters were custom modified to achieve this end? Yes!

I call bullshit. Even if you were a programmer or had had PFC experience, I would call BS. Once firmware is compiled, it's very difficult to read even when it's decompiled. I have guys working for me that can spend days trying to work out what several kilobytes of code in a Trojan does. It would take them years upon years to reverse engineer the code to run an electric bike.

If you've changed a setting using the programming cable, that's all well and good, but call it what it is. That's like hitting the power/economy button on many modern cars, then boasting how much more powerful your car is compared to another one. Or maybe more accurately, it's like most dealers shipping it on default economy mode, and another dealer shipping it on default power mode. There's actually no improvement to the engine, it's just a marketing gimmick to trap the unwary.

And since it sounds like you don't even know what firmware actually is, I'd say you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Ok Mr. Firmware Expert - Now what are you saying - that I didn't change the firmware in my controller? Wrong again! Dude, I have been doing code on Drones before you even knew what a computer was!

Re-Read the post I said the controller came with a revised firmware which programmed in a safety feature to where the throttle nor pedals would work unless the bike was moving 2 mph. I removed that firmware and installed another version. Are you OK now?

Mike

 

[Ebike4me]

Get Over It!

Agreed.. Tough crowd! I'm finding your posts quite informative..
In fact I just contacted Luna Cycle taking them up on the Giant
Stance 2 build like yours for their advertised price in this thread.
I wasn't looking to get another bike.. A full suspension would be nice..
But I've been drawn into this
Thread and decided to take Luna cycle up on their comparable deal..
More to follow..

 

[IdleUp]

Get Over It!

Agreed.. Tough crowd! I'm finding your posts quite informative..
In fact I just contacted Luna Cycle taking them up on the Giant
Stance 2 build like yours for their advertised price in this thread.
I wasn't looking to get another bike.. A full suspension would be nice..
But I've been drawn into this
Thread and decided to take Luna cycle up on their comparable deal..
More to follow..

Congrats - I think you'll like the Giant Stance, I would recommend a 44 tooth sprocket - it offers a perfect ratio for the 750 watt with the 9 speed. She has 30 mph cruising ability and I can climb almost any grade in 3rd. In 1st its like a Kubota tractor in low LOL.

keep us posted or PM me wit any questions.

Mike

 

[Sunder]

Ok Mr. Firmware Expert - Now what are you saying - that I didn't change the firmware in my controller? Wrong again! Dude, I have been doing code on Drones before you even knew what a computer was!

Re-Read the post I said the controller came with a revised firmware which programmed in a safety feature to where the throttle nor pedals would work unless the bike was moving 2 mph. I removed that firmware and installed another version. Are you OK now?

Mike

Ah, here's the confusion. You think that flashing firmware means you know which firmware set is superior? My 3 year old kid has done a firmware update! Doesn't mean he knows a single line of code inside the update, and neither do you. And without knowing, Induna has a very good point - You've bought marketing fluff that might or might be true.

Lectriccycles' site is full of marketing lies that's very easy to disprove, which means that the rest of their claims which can't be easily proven, should be assumed to be lies unless you can prove them. For example, they say

You've asked for it and here it is. The most powerful mid drive conversion kit on the market.

http://www.lectriccycles.com/e-rad-1000-watt-hd-mid-drive-conversion-kit/

And yet here, out of 22 reviewed kits, I count no less than 3 that are more powerful than it (I say no less than, because half of those in the list don't specify a maximum power output).

https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/

So, I've already told you that a little bit of my work includes analysing malicious software. Another part is dealing with computer crime. One of the most amazing things I've ever heard in my line of work, was when a police officer I was working with had to tell an old lady, that she'd been sending money off to a fraudster in a romance scam. She'd sent over 200k Australian. But she was adamant the police were lying, and that her lover was real and telling the truth, and we had to get a magistrate to order the bank to block transfers to the recipient account. Even after that, she abused the police for doing so.

You're that woman. You've been duped. But you can't believe it, literally can't. You'll make up any excuse, any other explanation, so that you don't have to accept the fact that you're wrong.

 

[slacker]

sunder, priceless.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Here's an ES post from two years ago...putting a BBSxx on a bike to make a mid drive, and sell to the public:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60435

 

[amberwolf]

LunaCycle's Ad/sale discussion posts moved to Items For Sale - New where all ads need to go.

 

[Alan B]

Is this thread a review or a general discussion?

Feel free to delete this post Amber.

 

[Ebike4me]

Thanks for the info.. looking forward to a more tweak-able setup..

Get Over It!

..

Congrats - I think you'll like the Giant Stance, I would recommend a 44 tooth sprocket - it offers a perfect ratio for the 750 watt with the 9 speed. She has 30 mph cruising ability and I can climb almost any grade in 3rd. In 1st its like a Kubota tractor in low LOL.

keep us posted or PM me wit any questions.

Mike

 

[Ebike4me]

A few hundred more? That is really stretching the truth.

It looks like you paid $1000 - 1500 more to save yourself 4 hours of wrenching but you are no being forthright about what you paid nor what the same kit would cost from Luna. How the hell do you get a luna bbs02 kit up to 1400?

Here is your complete kit from Luna with all the upgrades you mentioned:

Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT(Sprocket Size: 44T, Optional Display Upgrades: Luna Full Color D..., Throttle Options: Bafang BBSxx Univ..., Have your BBS02 cut power automatically when you shift using a Gear Sensor: GearSensor for De..., Pick your ebrake cut off sensors: Magnetic sensors ..., Make it a kit by adding a top grade PANASONIC battery: Dolphin 48v GA 13..., Add a 5.5mm Smart Charger for your Battery (not included): 48v 3amp Lithium ..., Add an Adapter and Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring: 38T Black $65.00)
Quantity: 1
$1,123.00 (of course does not include all those secret sauce bs lectric is brewing like hardnened axles and special programming LMFAO)

Add the Giant Stance 2 for $1200 (i posted link earlier)

$2323 total for your bike from LUNA.


.

I just priced the Giant stance config on your site (Luna) for the comparable setup and came up with $3000 wo shiping.
A far cry from your numbers above.. Looks like the OP did ok with Lectric cycle..
I see some changes to the set up with the hd Motor, but not enough to raise the price $700 from your original quote.
Back to shopping around..

 

[Last deadeye]

Idleup, what was the cost for your setup? I'm also confused about the bottom bracket. Since it's not a fat bike, why does it use a 92mm? Something about clearance for the rear suspension? If that's the case, is it just the axle that's wider or the barrel on the bbs02 as well? I was thinking a standard 68mm bbs02 would fit that frame.

 

[IdleUp]

A few hundred more? That is really stretching the truth.

It looks like you paid $1000 - 1500 more to save yourself 4 hours of wrenching but you are no being forthright about what you paid nor what the same kit would cost from Luna. How the hell do you get a luna bbs02 kit up to 1400?

Here is your complete kit from Luna with all the upgrades you mentioned:

Bafang BBS02 750w Mid Drive KIT(Sprocket Size: 44T, Optional Display Upgrades: Luna Full Color D..., Throttle Options: Bafang BBSxx Univ..., Have your BBS02 cut power automatically when you shift using a Gear Sensor: GearSensor for De..., Pick your ebrake cut off sensors: Magnetic sensors ..., Make it a kit by adding a top grade PANASONIC battery: Dolphin 48v GA 13..., Add a 5.5mm Smart Charger for your Battery (not included): 48v 3amp Lithium ..., Add an Adapter and Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring: 38T Black $65.00)
Quantity: 1
$1,123.00 (of course does not include all those secret sauce bs lectric is brewing like hardnened axles and special programming LMFAO)

Add the Giant Stance 2 for $1200 (i posted link earlier)

$2323 total for your bike from LUNA.


.

I just priced the Giant stance config on your site (Luna) for the comparable setup and came up with $3000 wo shiping.
A far cry from your numbers above.. Looks like the OP did ok with Lectric cycle..
I see some changes to the set up with the hd Motor, but not enough to raise the price $700 from your original quote.
Back to shopping around..

Smile . . . . .

 

[IdleUp]

When I saw that seat I almost peed myself!

Hey Rockwall regarding your goofy response on my fat seat, as I mentioned, you need to get "Up To Speed" on electric powered bikes, your backwards thinking of English Racer seats on these bikes doing 30+ mph off-road is a thing of the past. Here's an image and a video for you mull over - These guys got fat seats and they don't look like Sissy's to me! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaACz9ImZBM&feature=youtu.be

Enjoy - Mike

 

[Wolfeman]

It's always fun to watch people so earnestly trying to tell other people that their opinion is factual. So many people believe that their perceptions and opinions are factual, when in fact they are simply beliefs. Contentment comes from not feeling like you have to prove others wrong. Just my opinion.

 

[IdleUp]

I didn't bring the seat up, but now that it was mentioned, I think its important to state that just how mountain bikes have evolved in the past 4-5 years with improved carbon frames, suspension, shocks, tires and now E motors, so will the manner we ride them to include bigger seats when you happen to de-pedal yourself!

 

[Green Machine]

i cant believe my posts were removed. this entire thread belongs in the for sale section.

Here it is here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=82384

thanks to mike mas trolling for lectric cycles we are now selling complet ebikes.

here is where our story continues: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=82384

Anyway yes we put a bbsh version of the giant bike up with an eclipse chain ring and some extra for $28500. This is a nearly $1000 cheaper than what lectric would sale it for.

The BBSHD is a the right option for that bike because it has a wide bottom bracket...the bbs02 is not the right choice.

THe base bbs02 bike on the lectric site is at 3500...... imagine what it would cost with a bbshd.

 

[IdleUp]

i cant believe my posts were removed. this entire thread belongs in the for sale section.

Anyway yes we put a bbsh version of the giant bike up with an eclipse chain ring and some extra for $28500. This is a nearly $1000 cheaper than what lectric would sale it for.

The BBSHD is a the right option for that bike because it has a wide bottom bracket...the bbs02 is not the right choice.

THe base bbs02 bike on the lectric site is at 3500...... imagine what it would cost with a bbshd.

Thanks for the post - Not sure the 1Kw is a good choice for most recreational riders. I weighed the options of the 1KW motor and decided against it - I feel the 750 is the perfect match to have a good bike with some nice off-road performance with longevity. Once you start hanging 1KW or more on a mid-priced production bike, you're going to start tearing up stuff and spiting chains. The 750 pretty much puts out the torque values of what a good healthy rider puts in the pedals. On the other hand - if you're going to compete with the big boys, the 3Kw would be sweet but your going be spending money to keep it on the road.

By the way, the bike your mentioning comes to $2900 with a low end battery, when you add the larger battery and shipping you'll be over $3000. Also you don't get custom made 92mm bracket for the Giant Stance, hardened shafts, custom firmware, and a gear sensor that shifts like an automatic transmission.

Thanks

 

[Last deadeye]

I'm with wolfeman. This thread seems useless as far as facts. Just a lot of opinions and quarreling. We'd all be better off going for a ride than reading this.

 

[IdleUp]

Hey guys - one of the members asked how the chain aligns, here's an image in 4th gear, she's right on. As I mentioned, Lectric makes this 92 mm bracket just for the Giant Stance.

Thanks

 

[amberwolf]

i cant believe my posts were removed.

They were moved to the for sale section in their own thread because that's where sale threads go.

If you want to advertise what *you* can do for people, it has to go there, not here.

this entire thread belongs in the for sale section.

Even if it was, you still would have to use your own thread, cuz you shouldn't post your own ads in someone else's sale thread.

So either way they don't belong in this thread. Please cease posting ads about what you sell / etc in discussion areas, and use the for-sale section.


If you can prove that this is a vendor ad you are more than welcome to provide that information to the moderators and we will act accordingly, moving the thread(s) about it to the appropriate areas, as we did with yours.

 

[MadRhino]

I don't believe the OP is a vendor. I think that he acts like one because he is over-enthusiastic about his new bike. I find just funny how the discussion had turned, and I wouldn't feel useful demolishing the specs of a cheap bike only to break the enthusiasm of the OP. I will read instead, what he has to say about it next year if he is still posting on ES. :wink:

I don't believe either that Green Machine deliberately tried to hack the thread. He just felt attacked and over-reacted with prices and promotion of his products.

 

[IdleUp]

Hey guys, just wanted to get some input regarding temperature limits of the Bafang drives - Its 92 degrees out today and I just went on a 14 mile on-road journey and averaged 21 mph. Keep in mind, I live in North Georgia where these hills will stop any hub motor drive regardless of how fast you hit them. Anyhow, battery is showing 47% on the “Guess-O-Meter” and the temperature of the drive reached 139 degrees after climbing my miserable steep driveway. I’ve found the Bafang generates a bit more heat than the hub motors since it has two deal with the heat from the controller as well as the motor.

While we talking about motor heat my Prodeco Tech Outlaw 1200 watt hub motor reached 135 on the same run.

By the way, If anyone owns one of these 1200 watt Outlaw’s then you’ll know that after 20-30 minutes the controller thermals out and keeps going to idle.

Prodeco Tech was stumped and thought they had some bad controllers but after spending a some time I found out the controller was reaching 188 degrees since its locked in an air-tite compartment. Here’s a shot showing where the outer plastic case reached 140+ degrees.

If you have one of these bikes, here’s a temporary fix where I mounted the controller to the seat post and Presto no heat problems.

 

[Green Machine]

The BBs02 runs hot and thats what gives it reliability problems especially if you dont down shift when climbing...you should back off throttle and/or downshift.

You will strip your nylong gears in no time running that hot as well as shorten the life of the motor.

That is why the bbshd is such a big step up if you run your bike that hard. ...it is hard to get the bbshd hot even running uphills in the wrong gear.

 

[induna]

Ok, since price comparisons have been a significant part of this thread, and there has been a bit of a He said, He said back and forth, I thought I would try to provide some objective numbers according the websites of Luna and Lectric Cycles:

Luna Cycles:

Giant Stance 2 (2016) with
BBSHD mid-drive motor
11.5AH 52V downtube battery
3A Charger
DP-10 B&W display
Gear sensor
Shipping

Total $3,000


Lectric Cycles:

Giant Stance 2 (2016) with
BBS02 (750W) mid-drive motor
11.6AH 48V downtube battery
2A charger
DP-14 color display
Gear Sensor
Shipping

$3,495

So, the Luna Cycles product is $500 cheaper and comes with a BBSHD instead of a BBS02 and a slightly higher capacity battery. Luna has a cheaper, B&W display instead of the superior color display supplied by Lectric. However, Luna comes with a 3A charger instead of a 2A charger. Note that Lectric Cycles charges $455 more for a BBSHD than a BBS02 (750W). So, by their own pricing, an similarly equipped bike from Lectric will cost $900 more (with a little credit for the color display). Luna only charges $200 more for the BBSHD than the 750W BBS02. Perhaps Green Machine was over zealous with the price he originally announced in this forum (now in the For Sale New section), but his product is clearly less expensive by a large margin, nearly 25% for an equivalent product, and is even $500 more for the product with a less powerful, and perhaps less reliable under severe use, motor. I, for one, would love to read a comparative review of the two products written by an objective reviewer so that we can gain additional information on the reported advantages of Lectric Cycles custom firmware and hardened shafts (is it just me, or that a bit obscene?). It would be even better if the review could include a full teardown of both motors after seriously abusing them.

Now the OP has stated that he paid less than the price listed on the Lectric Cycles website. This could make their product more competitive. Could he please share how much less he paid, and whether and how that discount is available to the rest of us?

Please note that I do not have a dog in this fight. I did recently by a BBS02 kit from Luna that I have yet to receive since it is arriving in Costa Rica, where I live, tomorrow in my friend's luggage, but I have no particular loyalty to them, nor have I ever received any financial incentives. I simply bought from them because they had a great price and availability.