Thinking of getting an E bike

I'm sorry but I think I am missing something, or I just got lost somewhere.

At the beginning of this post there was a link to show the bike that Jay64 was thinking of buying.

In the Specifications of the bike (Model: 2007 E-Zip Mountain Trailz Electric Bike) it says that it has a 450W DC earth magnet motor.

Then when talking about the motor for the bike I see people referring to the 1018 motor and quoting specks for a 250W motor.

So is it a 450w motor or is it a 250W motor?
 
iberkt said:
So is it a 450w motor or is it a 250W motor?
It's a 250W motor made by Unite.
http://www.cn-dcmotor.com/product12.asp
power2a_192.jpg


Currie/Izip inflate the spec by feeding it beyond the rated load of 13.3A. It can take more, but not forever.
 
Tyler, thanks a lot for that link. That is the kind of stuff I was looking for and couldn't find. Nice! That drill job looks like what we do to our rear rotors on the race bikes. Hmm, maybe I could have that cover sent to some of the guys that used to make some really cool slotted vent holes in our rotors. That might give the motor a real wicked look. :twisted:

Good question Iberkt. I had caught a bit of that myself. I had assumed that when people started talking about 250w it was just a lower model of the same bike? Is this 1018 the 450w?
 
So it is only rated for 250w? Damn, I was thinking that it was 450w and I could push it a ways past that, but if they are already pushing it, then it seems the pushing will be limited.
 
It will be interesting to see how far it can be pushed... I'm confident that 48V with forced cooling will be fine, but noisy.

It is a decent platform for understanding the basics of brushed EVs: small, simple and cheap.


:mrgreen:
 
Jay64 said:
So it is only rated for 250w? Damn, I was thinking that it was 450w and I could push it a ways past that, but if they are already pushing it, then it seems the pushing will be limited.

It's all about heat management.

Here's the secret... raising the voltage increases power but does NOT increase heat. Heat is caused by current. You can achieve a "peaky" powerband by raising the current and then placing a "restriction" on the carburetor (so to speak) and force the motor to run lean at low rpms. By doing this the low end gets no power, but when the rpms hit the top end then the motor screams and you get good power, but you don't cause as much heat as a torquey motor would.

Just take all the motorcycle concepts you know and transfer them to this motor... raise the voltage (raising the rpm) and narrow the power peak so you have a "peaky" powerband by using Armature Current Limiting. Throw in a cooling system and you can get about 1000 watts peak out of a 1018Z. (1000 watts could get you up to near 40 mph)

Use the pedals to compensate for low rpm weakness... (you only pedal until you get up to speed)


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safe said:
By doing this the low end gets no power, but when the rpms hit the top end then the motor screams and you get good power, but you don't cause as much heat as a torquey motor would.

So that analogy would be like a 125cc two stroke gp bike?
 
Anyone have any other threads they can point me to in reference to these motors? I am still getting that error on the search function and not being able to see all 82 posts on these motors.
 
Jay64 said:
So that analogy would be like a 125cc two stroke gp bike?

:arrow: Yes.

TylerDurden just doesn't like the idea of Armature Current Limiting for some reason (we have a long history of arguing over it) and so he's going to consistently try to beat it down. However, it's part of the most advanced controllers and sort of considered "common knowledge" as being valid. If you can reduce the low end torque by reducing the low end current then you still get your top end power, but the low end won't cause overheating.

:arrow: Peaky bikes produce more peak power... but they force you to ride the bike differently. It obviously works better with gears than without... imagine a 125cc GP bike with one gear... that would be pretty lame... :?
 
Jay64 said:
Anyone have any other threads they can point me to in reference to these motors? I am still getting that error on the search function and not being able to see all 82 posts on these motors.

Go to the Chinese Website:

http://www.cn-dcmotor.com/productShows.asp?ArticleID=192
 
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=525&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=482&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2160&hilit=

Safe is our daily visitor from Planet Drunk... one of those losers you find at the track drooling over bikes, but god forbid you should let them touch yours.
 
hehehe i read some threads just to "watch" TD and safe :twisted:

cheers


D
 
deecanio said:
hehehe i read some threads just to "watch" TD and safe :twisted:

cheers


D
Yeah it's not just about gaining information, it's about being entertained !!! :lol:
 
My present bike can already kick TylerDurden's bike's ass... :lol:

So how can a guy with a lame machine act like he's "cool". You don't get to be in the "cool club" unless you can at least go 40 mph... I mean come on... the guy's got nothing... :shock:
 
Ok just for the sake of the OP .... taking out the ACL discussions and making it simple again

From my experience with current bike (which is a izip trailz)

24v with this motor the performance is asthmatic!!!

36v with this motor gives you decent performance! (around 20mph)

On the setup I currently on my bike (using the same controller and motor) I currently get 17km with little or no pedalling (8.0aH from a 20aH 36v SLA pack). Range I get with pedalling is around 26km.

I charge my pack at home and at work though.
 
Albie, so you are running this bike with a 20a 36v pack with the motor stock and the stock controller? Do you have any problems with over heating? How long have you been running this setup?
 
I've found the same as albie with my bmx currie. ~14mph stock, ~20mph at 36. IIRC somebody else reported 25+mph at 36v, but maybe their Currie had different gearing.
 
vanilla ice said:
somebody else reported 25+mph at 36v, but maybe their Currie had different gearing.
Wasn't me... The only times my bike's gone over 12mph were on the back of the car.

Mighta been Reid or Xyster. Knightmb has one too.

You can also search on "mongoose" and "Izip".

:?
 
Nah no problems with overheating with the controller or motor just wacked a 36v sla pack onto it! haha

As I mentioned in my ride thread that the controller is designed to handle 36v battery packs (as Currie Tech sells them and you can order them for the bike.... same mounting as the 24v SLA packs they have although they are only rated at 10aH).

On the 36v setup I have... i've done to date around 650km and normally ride this bike to and from work on a daily basis. I ditched the 24v setup after 1 day of running that (got bored of the speed quickly especially after riding BiGH's bike!).
 
I'm a newbie to the e-bike universe and am contemplating the purchase of my first ride. Until the cold snap came upon us here in Albuquerque, I was biking to work (about 10 miles) on an old Nishiki Pueblo 18-speed about three days a week. Getting to work is a breeze but coming back home it is uphill almost all the way. I want to bike more but these old bones have difficulty with hills. I'm not interested in going faster than 20 mph but would like to have enough torque to climb lengthy hills with very little pedal assistance.

I like the idea of adding a hub motor kit to a Montague Swissbike LX. Lightness, and visual stealth are desirable. Quietness would also be good but is not a show stopper -- I think a geared hub motor would not be too loud. I would appreciate comments and suggestions on what I should get. My target price is $2500 or so.

Here is what I have looked at:

[1] The Optibike looks like the Cadillac of the industry but it is out of my price range. I also don't like the idea of NiMH in the frame and Li-xx on the back. I'd like to go with one battery chemistry (LiFePO) located on or in the frame.

[2] The Matra Sport BionX is only 250W and I don't expect it to be imported to the US anytime soon. I suspect that the Matra-Tidalforce may be a while coming into the US as well. The original motors seem very powerful (expecially the X) but also heavy. The battery-in-front-hub concept is novel, but most owners that speak of them on the web add a "B" battery on the back rack to get more duration and/or speed. I would prefer a system that is much lighter overall -- perhaps 8-10 lbs for battery pack, 8-10 lbs for hub motor, and 1-2 lbs for controller.

[3] I have considered the BionX PL-350. The kit seems very well thought out and there are at least two vendors in the US that sell this kit and the Montague complete. However, there are some apparent negatives. (1) I've seen several web blogs that suggest the BionX motor can go into temporary thermal shutdown on extended hill climbs. (2) This problem also seems to occur in regen mode on extended descents, resulting in an unexpected lack of slow-down, (3) The system is completely closed so there is no opportunity for tweaking, and (4) I'm an EE and just love to tinker (see (3) above). As you can probably tell by now I am also detail oriented. There are rumors of a 500W high-torque (not the 500-HS) motor under development. There is also mention of a larger capacity battery pack. But since these don't exist yet, and I just love to tinker (see (4) above), I'm probably not willing to wait.

[4] I have also considered the new Ezee hub kit. I like the fact that the electronics are somewhat waterproof. I saw some disturbing web stories about less waterproof crystalite-based systems going into full throttle uncontrollably in wet weather. The Ezee motor is apparently a bit noisier than a non-geared hub but probably acceptable. The negatives for me are (1) It's a front hub motor and I have concerns about front fork failure. The kit doesn't come with a torque arm and a salesman from one of the websites said it doesn't need one. Although it's not one of the more powerful motors out there, with a 5:1 gear reduction, I suspect that it can generate some significant torque. I'd rather be safe than sorry. How strong is the front fork on a Montague LX anyway? (2) I don't know how reliable their Li-MN batteries are. They are prismatics and differ from the smaller ones used in the Bionx. (3) I'd prefer a frame-mounted battery pack like the Bionx fo the pannier pack that comes with the Ezee kit. If I put a seat-post mounted rack on the back, and fastened the pannier pack, would it interfere with the folding aspect of the Montague?

[5] I am also considering assembling a complete solution by cherrypicking each major component. I think I would prefer a geared hubmotor to the 4x or 5x series Crystalite motors. I'm reading good things about the teamhybrid Puma and EVTECH BMC rear-hub motors. The EVTECH BMC hub motor comes with a nice torque arm, but does not have the wiring and other upgrades of the Puma. I'm not sure what torque arm comes with the puma. The configurations I have seen on the web appear to have home-made torque arms. I would prefer the Puma if it came with the following two features (1) a good torque arm, and (2) a 7-speed sprocket compatible with the Montague. I think the latter feature will be available in a future batch from teamhybrid. The new Crystalite-based controllers with upgraded FETS from teamhybrid.co.uk and ebikes.ca look like the way to go from an efficiency standpoint, but I suspect that they are not very waterproof. It''s typically pretty dry here in Albuquerque but one accidental full-throttle episode on a rainy day could spell disaster. I saw some discussion of using chemicals from the aerospace industry to seal out moisture but there ought to be a solution from the manufacturer as sold. With regard to batteries, I would prefer LiFePO chemistry. A123 or LifeBatt look like the best options. I think I can get a pretty complete solution with the LifeBatt packs about to be released through the TPpacks website. The A123 solutions appear to be either less complete or more home-brew at this point but I could be wrong. The problem that would remain to be solved is one of battery packaging. I haven't seen the Bionx frame-mounted battery pack in person but it looks like a very nice design. I wonder if one could get the box and mount without the batteries and BMS, and substitute the LifeBatts. Is anybody working on a frame-mount pack that would fit Bionx-style on the Montague LX?

-- Joey
 
Joey... You can purchase those battery boxes that mount onto your bike frame (like Bionx) from two US suppliers on the web. I can't remember the name of the companies but would be easy to find on Google, they were around $65, and included key switch and mounting bracket to the water bottle screws. Oh, and welcome to the Sphere.
 
I wouldn't worry that much about waterproofing. It can be easily done in a few minutes with a tube of silicone. The throttle is the main thing, which would need to be disassembled to do a proper job. With a dab of goo in the right spot, it should work underwater.

The other issues are more concerning.

Everyone has their own preferences, but you want to avoid future headaches too.
 
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