Torque sensor or not?

Definitely an interesting comment or observation. I could see that if there is a delay in the torque response it could feel mushy/swampy/not firm. Was this your observation with more than one torque sensor, or just with a specific unit?


Mhmm. So that's a mental thing, getting used to the torque support? I'm not planning to do 130 to 190 km at a time, more like 60 to 80 miles or 100 to 130 km, but if the torque based support tends to screw with your natural pedaling, that would be good to know.
The mushy feeling was with TSDZ2. Since it felt like a normal bike when the motor was off then the mushy feeling wasn't caused by mechanical problems but constant interplay between the motor and legs especially on hills caused by certain amount of motor delay. Since people said TSDZ2 feels no worse than Bosch then the mushy feeling might apply to torque sensors in general.


The cadence sensor was tested on a more powerful motor so this might have skewed final impressions.
 
is that linear or programmable?
With my Grin contollers and a Cycle Analyst, I could set a fixed power level to apply when the pedal sensor reports movement, or I can set an addition per rpm of cadence. I can also set a base power level that is then increased by cadence, and I can change that base level with the 'up-down' switch provided on the fly. I also decide in the program how many steps of base power are available - currently I have 20 steps.

On flats, I run low base power - this might be low enough to feel it in my legs, or if I'm exhausted or the wind is strong or my joints are hurting it might be high enough that the motor outruns my legs. On up slopes, I can press the button several times to push the base level up to match the slope, and then down when that is past.

I have not run a torque sensor yet. Given the programmability of the Grin system, I don't expect I will 'run out of' power as the poster above reported for his wife's machine, which apparently had limited, perhaps fixed, settings. I do have a throttle, which is legal in Australia up to 6km/hr for starting. Above that pedaling is required, or the machine is an electric motorcycle.
 
Torque sensors typically feel mushy when pedalling
?! There is nothing mushy with the systems I rode so far. (Bosch, Panasonic, Lishui, Bafang, BionX....) The TSDZ2 has a very poor torquesensor as written before. The firmware has mayor impact on the assist behaviour of course. You can make it very responsive/nervous, or slow/smooth... Do you have experience with other systems?
 
?! There is nothing mushy with the systems I rode so far. (Bosch, Panasonic, Lishui, Bafang, BionX....) The TSDZ2 has a very poor torquesensor as written before. The firmware has mayor impact on the assist behaviour of course. You can make it very responsive/nervous, or slow/smooth... Do you have experience with other systems?
I haven't been able to find any list with brands comparing the torque sensor response in subjective or objective terms so far since there aren't any testing stations available anywhere helping you to draw your own conclusion.
Whenever I read about anyone mentioning torque sensors they are always described as resulting in "natural" pedalling experience without any nuance.
 
without any nuance
I asked in the German forum some years ago, but the answers weren't satisfying ;)

On the other hand there are thousands of posts about the Tour+ mode of the Bosch system:ROFLMAO:
 
Every DIY cadence kit I've installed uses pedal rotation as an on/off switch to enable the motor which then accelerates to a predetermined motor speed at a power level. How the controller sets the power and how it uses that speed limit determines how the bike feels when pedaling.

I've ridden ebikes which cut off power when it reaches the max motor speed. Stupid . Really stupid. It's worse than hitting a speed limiter. It's like shutting off the battery. Other ebikes might give too much power even in level 1, so the bike lurches away. A decent system sets the current limit in a level, and just holds that when you reach a given motor speed. In my experience, my hub motor bikes with KT controllers and my mid drive BBS02B do this, and I like the way both cadence systems pedal.

I have converted a pair of bikes with the torque sensing TSDZ2 mid drive kits. I've also installed the OSF fimware in both. Max current is about 11A on 48V, so these are pretty mild mannered compared to my 20A-22A hub motors and 25A BBS02, . THe simple way to look at torque sense is pedal slow and you go slow, Pedal harder and you go faster, but you pedal far less harder than you do on a regular bike. No ghost pedalling, I like our TSDZ2 bikes, as their performance levels meet my needs. However, they did need the firmware change abd have been known to wear out fast, We will see aout the latter.

My next conversion is going to be an AKM128 motor with a KT controller. For me, that's $400USD. The motor is reliable, as is the electronics. Pedal feel will be decent. I see no advantage in going for a higher cost torque sensor system,
 
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