Trump is against everyone having an electric car

[Superb_Raccoon]

Many of those suburban/rural settlements were started decades before the car was available.
Remember , horses/buggys were the primary form of transport before the 1920s, cars and trucks just replaced the horse.

BICYCLES were a major form of transportation too. Most early roads are formed and improved because of cyclists.

 

[Superb_Raccoon]

This is a far more sociopathic thought than any desire for solitude could ever be, not to mention the strangeness of the rest of your post. Reminds me of the Nazi obsession with the "antisozial", i.e. anybody who had qualms about participating in the Holocaust. the city/rural contradiction can't be solved merely by "reduc[ing] the excess rural population",

You missed the dripping sarcasm.

Not your fault, I am usually quite subtle when taking someone's silly idea to it's natural conclusion. Because remember... Chalo's premise we are moving people to cities and those 2.2% out in the fields farming and mining just don't count.

 

[neptronix]

Boy this thread has got rediculous.

 

[sandshifter]

oh whoops i missed the context. my bad

 

[Hillhater]

This is a falsehood. You can only describe this as 'economically' by ignoring the actual costs - of war, or destruction to the Eco-system (we don't have another one), of the economic misery inflicted by the psychopaths who take advantage of the pile of money to push others aside to get more for them.

This is transparently not true.

So what to do ?… should we all stand still, confined to our “15 min city” zones ..as proposed by the UN ?
And convince me what destruction to the Eco system humans are responsible for ?
NASA have reported that since CO2 levels have increased , ( from whatever source) , the planet has significantly more “greening”
Things change over time, the earthwas relatively recently covered in ice ! You cannot stop change.
Economic distribution in society are a result of the corruption we allow by empowering unqualified leaders and corrupt officials.
Technology , transport changes, etc wont stop that situation, even a move to Socialism or Communism still results in the same financial imballance.
Incase you have not realised , the whole Solar , Wind, Battery, infrastructure rollout is making even more billionairs as we speak.…..and not changing the situation for the better either !

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Economic distribution in society are a result of

... my refusal to take responsibility for my own actions, instead speaking of 'them' and 'we'.

None of that changes that the use of automobiles deliberately ignore the actual costs to all of us for their use of automobiles. Trying to call in arguments about politics, or the planet, or 'change' does not change this. Regardless of the other aspects, it remains true that the users of automobiles do not pay for the benefit - all of us do.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

You cannot stop change.

You can.

 

[Superb_Raccoon]

Boy this thread has got rediculous.

Welcome to the internet, you must be new here!

Unfortunately, all threads converge on ridiculous.

 

[Hillhater]

L

None of that changes that the use of automobiles deliberately ignore the actual costs to all of us for their use of automobiles. Trying to call in arguments about politics, or the planet, or 'change' does not change this. Regardless of the other aspects, it remains true that the users of automobiles do not pay for the benefit - all of us do.

And we all benefit from the results of the social mobility provided by automobiles.
Doctors and nurses get to hospitals….
Teachers get to schools…
Workers get to the factory to make our bread, and keep the water supply running…
etc etc..
We all pay for the rail infrastructure , and the mass transit metro and bus fleets ..even if we do not personally use them.
That is what makes a community a social society.
Imagine a society with no roads, or any of the “public transport” systems ?…
.….we would rapidly regress to hunter gatherer status Living in a thatched hut !

 

[offGridDownUnder]

That is what makes a community a social society.

If we don't measure honestly, we get dishonest data.

The dishonest data is used to muddle the discussion, and the observation. We won't make good choices if we don't admit reality.

The cost of the damage done by fossil fuels, and by companies putting their thumbs on the scale of our government must be accurately reported. Until that is done, the public will not make honest choices - they can't.

It's actually true that anyone who isn't honest in their messaging is interfering with democracy - they are manipulating everyone else.

 

[Hillhater]

The cost of the damage done by fossil fuels, and by companies putting their thumbs on the scale of our government must be accurately reported. Until that is done, the public will not make honest choices - they can't.

OK,…what exactly is this “cost” of the damage done by fossil fuels ?
and remember ,…there is no such thing as a free lunch !

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

1.8 years is nothing to scoff at.

Impact on Life Expectancy | State of Global Air

www.stateofglobalair.org

 

[gromike]

OK,…what exactly is this “cost” of the damage done by fossil fuels ?
and remember ,…there is no such thing as a free lunch !

The rise in sea level, for one.

 

[Hillhater]

1.8 years is nothing to scoff at.

Impact on Life Expectancy | State of Global Air

www.stateofglobalair.org

Considering that since the “industrialisation” of fossil fuels (1800-to date) , the average life expectancy of humans has more than doubled from about 40 yrs to 79 yrs today,….to say that it could be 1.8 years more with less pollution is a little disingeneous !

How Has Life Expectancy Changed Throughout History?

Learn from a historical perspective how lifespan and life expectancy have evolved from prehistoric times to ancient times to 1800 to what it is today.

www.verywellhealth.com

 

[Chalo]

Considering that since the “industrialisation” of fossil fuels (1800-to date) , the average life expectancy of humans has more than doubled from about 40 yrs to 79 yrs today,….to say that it could be 1.8 years more with less pollution is a little disingeneous !

How Has Life Expectancy Changed Throughout History?

Learn from a historical perspective how lifespan and life expectancy have evolved from prehistoric times to ancient times to 1800 to what it is today.

www.verywellhealth.com

Chiming in on economics but unable to grasp "net change". Cool.

 

[neptronix]

He's right. oil is precious. basically the pillar of modern life.

It's also finite and use of it creates pollution, so we should use as little as possible, preferably none.

 

[Hillhater]

The rise in sea level, for one.

Where is this currently a major issue (other than in the media !)
Sea level rise is due to the melting of ice from the poles etc, which should not be surprising as the planet is still warming from the last ice age.
If you think that it is caused by an increase in CO2 from the use of fossil fuels, then thats your problem…
the science does not suggest that at all !

 

[neptronix]

If you think that it is caused by an increase in CO2 from the use of fossil fuels, then thats your problem…
the science does not suggest that at all !

You really like starting arguments on this forum don't you?

 

[Hillhater]

It's also finite and use of it creates pollution, so we should use as little as possible, preferably none.

I am all for reducing the use of oil and other fossil fuels, ….but until viable, effective, economical, alternatives are available , rushing to a “zero” use position is not viable.

 

[gromike]

It probably doesn't matter what we do now, as we have already screwed the pooch.

 

[Hillhater]

You really like starting arguments on this forum don't you?

I didnt start this “cost of fossil fuels” discussion .
but i try to correct misunderstandings !

 

[riding_on]

Presidents in the USA don't have much power and rarely do what they say. During campaign time, it's all about telling certain groups of people what they want to hear.

So they only pick judges and commissioners, who -- correct me if I'm wrong here -- have tremendous power. Is this thread worth my time or not? You people are such a pain in the ass to sift through sometimes

<3

 

[rafalg]

the science does not suggest that at all

With recent developments in web search technology and AI everyone can find the kind of science that matches their beliefs. Or bullshit disguised as science. But in contrary to what you have said, the 'science' quite clearly agrees on the relationship between fossil fuel use, increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and its effects on climate. Of course the problem is that nobody believes when a scientist, even Nobel prize laureate says something - but when some random guy on youtube claims the Earth is flat and all science is bullshit - suddenly they have hordes of yes-men running in ecstasy.

 

[Hillhater]

Chiming in on economics but unable to grasp "net change". Cool.

Not accepting the dramatic benefits resulting from the use of fossil fuels ….Not cool !

 

[Hillhater]

Of course the problem is that nobody believes when a scientist, even Nobel prize laureate says something -

Yes well, that swings both ways..

Nobel Prize winner who doesn't believe climate crisis has speech canceled

"I don't believe there is a climate crisis," Dr. John Clauser said during a speech at Quantum Korea 2023 in Seoul, South Korea.

www.newsweek.com

"Nobel Laureate (Physics 2022) Dr. John Clauser was to present a seminar on climate models to the IMF on Thursday and now his talk has been summarily cancelled," the Co2 Coalition said in a statement
"I don't believe there is a climate crisis," Clauser said during at Quantum Korea. "The world we live in today is filled with misinformation. It is up to each of you to serve as judges, distinguishing truth from falsehood based on accurate observations of phenomena."