Tucson Death Race 2011 roll call. Results on page 1

[John in CR]

I know that the Nano Lipo would be best, but I can't get that stuff cheap enough to sponsor a racer!

Oh well. Anyway, it's not at all certain that I will be even able to do that. I'm just throwing it out there so that you can tell me what size to make the packs IF I can get enough.

IF...

Katou

Since there isn't a weight limit I need 2 blocks 6p27s each with the series strings just long straight lines and paralleled side by side. Factory tabbing is fine because the 12p total won't see more than about 20A each individually, and I don't need anywhere near 10ga on the parallel connections, just dual 10ga for the battery leads on each half of the pack.

 

[RWP]

OK. I'm in for a nano pack.
Can we group buy this thing to save on shipping?
I love the idea of using it for the race and then selling it with proceeds going back to ES!

 

[dogman dan]

It will be pretty hard to guess what people might need after all. But some lipo is a good idea. Just 4 blocks would make at least a 72v pack that could allow sombody to need less recharging.

Power supply to recharge fast is an issue. There are a couple accesible 110 plugs, and I'll be bringing a 3000 watt generator. No 220 that I know of, so if you need it for a high power charger contact the track owner about it.

 

[bigmoose]

Glad you guys are getting the energy up early for this event! This is to acknowledge the guy who had a "gas" hanging it out last year... his posture in that turn is reminiscent of the great Rossi! (didn't see this good pix before, it's from the motorbicycling.com thread.)

 

[AussieJester]

Amberwolf FTW :lol: such a cool pic....the next few frames wouldn't have been to
great for AW though LoL... Good luck this year buddy give it SHiT!!

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

Such a great pic. All I caught was the dust cloud later. Don't underestimate that track, lots of good riders get off in the dirt. My first time there I had all this stuff stuck to my shoe from riding on the last 1/2 inch of pavement.

 

[wineboyrider]

I am going to take my mini motor and fry it! Volt it up and see how long it goes....

 

[amberwolf]

the next few frames wouldn't have been to
great for AW though LoL...

All I caught was the dust cloud later.

That would be this frame and dust cloud? :lol:

 

[John in CR]

That's why I would try to win by overpowering everyone on the straights, dual motor regen braking approaching the curves, and staying somewhat conservative in the curves. I don't trust that there's no sand or dust on that desert track, and I value skin and bones more than the trophy.

 

[spinningmagnets]

This is one place where regen would be really great. I 'think' since it would reduce brake pad heat, you could charge the curves at a faster pace, and brake later in the curve than gassers who can't use compression-braking (since I assume most of them will have freewheels on their engine-drive).

Also, with electric-drive, the ES-gang would have more low wheel-RPM torque to get "on it" better than the gassers, when coming out of a curve?

I doubt any of the gassers will be using a transmission (though it would be great to see more 3-speed IGH's used to show the best ways to apply them). I would really like it if Thud can bring the 2-speed...

 

[Thud]

Oh the Motoerd bike guys have transmisions too. There were 2 guys running SBP's "shift Kit" which is a jack shaft reduction to drive a freewheeling crank set up. & yes they can get some speed...both guys DNFed with shift kit related failers in the heats.

I think An HOBO set up or a big battery(dogmans set up) will have an huge advantage over the manual clutched happy time engines....But the Morini powerd bikes witha rpm tunable clutch will be formadable..(I know these power plants) from a dead stop we (electrics)are good..from a 20mph rolling start, the morini is going to be hard to beat.

Add a rider of Dave31's caliber & your gona have to earn it.....maybe I shouldn't have sent him that clutch

I will have a race set up with at least 2-speeds.....2 electric bikes on the trailer..1 fully suspended, another just a clean RC type build...& of course the Gassers for practice & running laps.

Batteries: I leave them in the 6cell brick configuration...& use the stock 4mm bullet conectors to series them, & a bike specific harness for parralelling. I will borrow a generator for the trip so I can Pit where ever I choose.

 

[AussieJester]

I will have a race set up with at least 2-speeds.....2 electric bikes on the trailer..1 fully suspended, another just a clean RC type build...& of course the Gassers for practice & running laps.
.

Eeeexcellent...i like how ThudSTeR said "with at least" hehe 3 speed dogbox in the works have we having
seen the track last two years on the videos and pics the one with the biggest stones under brakes
and best cornering ability will take this out, as with most forms of racing
... I still think with all his AMA racing experience, 2 speed dogbox and HOBO motored bikes ThudSTaR 8) will be the
one to beat outright, if he can refrain from treating the thang like his 500cc moto-x race bike that is ....

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

Win, lose, break or crash it will be a blast. To take 1st will not be easy, the track is difficult and the locals know it well. After the bike is fast, real balls and good tires are still needed.

I doubt I'll be very much faster than last time. Still trying to choke down what I spent on batteries last summer, so no faster wind motors. I've reached the limit of what I can handle with front drive. I simply can't get on the throttle too early in the corner, and brakes? what brakes? No disk this time.

Still, It's as fun riding that track at 53 as skiing the cliffs in Taos was at 33, or piloting balloons at 43. Not to be missed by adrenaline junkies.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Wow, I am envious! I hope that I have some ability to at least start early enough on my own trip to at least spectate!

I would love to be able to put together a race bike once my touring bike is built.

Good luck to all and be sure to have fun!

 

[MadRhino]

Still, It's as fun riding that track at 53 as skiing the cliffs in Taos was at 33, or piloting balloons at 43. Not to be missed by adrenaline junkies.

You're talking about age or speed there?

 

[Evoforce]

The weakest point of this race for most of us, is trying to stay on the track without doing the AmberDuster. :lol: We can only go soo fast without loosing control. And yes John, there was a trike in the Undead Race so bring it on! I have not even had the chance to hardly even touch my ratted together race bike since the Undead Race. What I need in order to use my 72 volt 20 ah headway setup is to find a good (single) bms (24s) and (single charger) to go with it. I wouldn't mind using lipo, but I have no experience or equipment for it. However...I won e-bike 1st place with my 48 volt 20 ah commuter bike in that race. Having had a flat tire on my race bike in the qualifier, it did not race the main event. So what that equates to is: bring a backup bike if you can, that anyone has a chance to win this race because of circumstances...and...you can only go soooo fast. It's like dangling one foot off the Grand Canyon and having the other foot on loose gravel. It gets the adrenaline pumping and the hairs standing up on the back of your breakneck speed in the turns. Some of these local guys have a bit more of Musselman Track experience than the rest of us. Get there as soon as they say it's open. I want to encourage everyone to ride the track. I went there to have fun not intending to win but wanted to be competitive. Some might just decide to play on the track before the race. I also think it would be great fun to party with all enthusiasts afterwards and hang out for the night in Tucson. With all of the scrambling around at the last race, I really didn't get the chance to mingle other than mixing it up out on the track.

 

[dogman dan]

53 years. But I did amaze some gas bike guys when they demanded to see the top speed on my speedo. 8) I'm hoping my bike just might crack 50 mph with just a few more cells in the pack and a long flat road. But on the track, hard to exceed 40 with that corner coming up in 600 feet or so.

 

[etard]

Ok guys, count me in! This should be the event of the year for ES, and hopefully it becomes a tradition of the electrics dominating! Is there on track camping available? If not, maybe we can organize a group discount at a cheap local hotel. There is even websites that you can rent a house for the weekend for cheap too. I cant believe the Thudmiester is driving down from MI to this thing, that is pretty legendary in itself! It's about 7 hours from me, so I wil be trying to save as much money as possible once I get there.

Trophy would be cool, maybe like an SLA with a plaque on it or something? :lol:

Luke, pm me, I could bring a bike or two if you have a kit ready to strap on. Let me know...

 

[dogman dan]

Added to the folks coming list, Etard.

For cheap motels, Benson AZ is a good choice if coming from the west. Too close to Tucson to get the buisness, the Benson motels can have some decent rates. Likely I'll stay there saturday night after the race. After the undead race last fall, I stayed at the Days inn in Benson, and found it very nice. I just drove up, and the sign out front had an incredibly low rate on it. Nice rooms, and food nearby.


I plan on driving in to Tucscon sat morning, so others driving a long distance could stay fri night at my place. But a dog might pile in with you, sleeping on the floor. The garage could be cleared if you don't like cuddling a bloodhound. 8)

Might be possible to sleep with dogs in Phoenix friday night if coming from the north.

 

[PaulD]

Hmm... sounds interesting. Anyone know how many laps?
Not much info on rules. Anything preventing me from putting some pedals on a WR250X (or an electric motorcycle for that matter)??

 

[Thud]

Anything preventing me from putting some pedals on a WR250X (or an electric motorcycle for that matter)??

There is a loose tech inspection......I would think the WR would get bounced pretty quickly.
I would think any one showing up with a YZ85 stuffed into a bicycle frame would also be scoffed at.
But they may let one or 2 run this time......

I prophisize- This year will be the year that will define future events....There are going to be a few Morini powerd bikes capable of speeds beyond Bicycle tire capabilities(electrics too). Classes are inevatable.

I can see them limiting engine choices to 49/60cc (happytime bicycle motors) & elliminating multi range transmision. Even moving the centrufigal clutch models (super modifieds & morini powerd bikes) to a seperate "open" class.
The whole arena of ellectric bikes is yet to be defined, this will be the first heads up of RC vs Hubs on a race track.

The last few "Main Events" have been 12 lap races..(plenty of time for the cream to rise to the top)

The intent is-it had to start as a bicycle or should at least resemble one.


I been crunching #s regarding driving vs Shipping/flying.......Wow, I can fly round trip for the price of gasoline 1 way!

I want to bring a couple bikes...so shipping would kinda limit me to 2 tops.
Desicions, desicions. :|

 

[liveforphysics]

Hmm... sounds interesting. Anyone know how many laps?
Not much info on rules. Anything preventing me from putting some pedals on a WR250X (or an electric motorcycle for that matter)??

I think the whole idea, is that whatever you're running could pass for a legal ebike or engine assist bike to the lay person (cop). With an ebike, that means it doesn't really matter how much current your controller has dialed in, and it doesn't really matter if your 50cc looking engine is bored and stroked to make it a 90cc (or whatever).

Coming from an automotive racing background, real-world definitions go something like this:

Legal Beagle If you get pulled over by a moron cop, your car won't be impounded.

"Street Legal" You can coast past a cop looking at you, and he won't pull it over if you're not driving in an illegal manor at that moment.

Streetable With no cop interference, you can use it for normal car things when you have to, but any police that recognize what they are seeing/hearing will pull it over, but likely not impound it if you weren't driving in an illegal manor at that moment.

Semi-Streetable You don't always have to trailer it to the track or out to the street race location. A police encounter only has 2 possible outcomes, successful eluding, or vehicle impounding.

Un-streetable Cars you don't even own wheels for that don't have slicks on them. Obvious plastic windows. Open exhaust. Best-case engine life expectancy is a 3-digit number of miles.


I'm thinking the spirit of this event is for vehicles in the "street legal" to streetable range of things.

 

[John in CR]

I think for the racing, your bike should have to be absolutely Legal Beagle for your home jurisdiction. :lol: I'll come for sure then, though it wouldn't be much fun being guaranteed a victory. 8) No rules are the best rules for now :wink:

 

[SoSauty]

Useful and cool definitions Luke

PaulD, this outlaw race event is an 'outing' that will define the direction of our new sport, albeit shaky new sport. I was surprised last Oct that no one had a big sleek motor/trans strapped into a bike frame. No body could surpase 45mph out on the track Your monster, ((or to some extent even something capable of srtreaking to 50+mph(master ES builders design)) particullarly a 60+ motorcycle w/ pedals in the 1/8th mile; would raise the eyebrows of traditional bike builders. Safety concerns by track operators would come into play. Then before the race, there's the riders meeting where rules are clarified and updated as the group/operators see fit.

I begin to rent/ride a "Zero" motorcycle from 'em, but it got busy and later they said renting a 70mph e-cycle with the bikes wouldn't be safe, so they gave me a little 4-stroke sub-50mph moto (fun)

To respond to your question as Thud did, you may or may not be allowed to run a "bicycle in name only" build this one time. Obviously, if allowed long term, the sport would weither, traditional builders would be disspirited ($$ broke) and safety issues would prohibit that sort of racing from spreading around the country, as well as certain future banning at the county Musselman Honda track in Tucson. On the other hand, if everyone shows up with sub 50mph rigs, the loose rules may or may not be left as is. The age ole "Wimpy/slow/safe vs Elite$$/manspeed" debate can rear it head anytime The Spooky Tooth ICE builds and our C-5300's/RC e-bikes can somewhat be cheaply built (for now) and keeps safety, both realistically and appearance wise to insurance/public, in place. Sadly, the price of Lipo batts is pushing the $$ envelope for e-bikes.

Thud, you touch an issue that I hope gets discussed in the future. The 'Fits in a Samsonite Oyster suitcase" folding e-bike racing category, I've studied it and can be done You'd just pay for it being extra luggage and fly it with you, ship the batts seperately.

Also, I'm planning on being in Tucson Thursday pm. Locate some "kinko's/UPS" receiving office in South Tucson and ship your Lipos for me to pick up there if needed. PM me if interested in a ride. Tucson track is less than 20mile from their big airport. I'll be staying in hotel within 5 miles Thur 4/14.

 

[dogman dan]

My impression is that if it can be pedaled, it's a motorized bicycle. So old boardtrack type stuff is in. Whizzers are in. I bet if you can put operating pedals on a 125, you'd be in. The frames on the faster bikes have certainly been customized, if not fabricated from scratch.

Last time out, it was a 6 lap heat, and 12 lap main. A short 6 lap heat gives an ebike a fighting chance at a recharge, and is plently long enough to sort the field for start positions. Like start position matters to us ebikes,,, Muhahhhhahha. A fast ebike definitely owns a drag race with those gassers. Gonna be really crowded entering turn 2 baby. Ebikes from tenth starting position will be right there with gas bikes from row 1.

Staying fast all the way to the end of lap 12, now there's your problem. Build yer lead, and hope the guys behind you crash. I keep thinking about how I could add 5s more lipo toward the end of the race with a simple switch you could throw on the fly.