Ultra Caps?

[swbluto]

how about a very very large trailer, with normal caps from junked tvs etc, um maybe not

LOL

Current-gen supercap = 1/10 - 1/2 the energy density of SLAs.

Normal cap = 1/100 - 1-10,000 the energy density of a supercap.

Uhhh.. gravimetric or volumetric? (energy/mass or energy/volume)

 

[etard]

I was thinking these might be good with a solar powered charger, alongside your normal ebike setup. I would use it like a booster pack, to get up that hill, or around that car, etc... I wonder how long it would take to charge up enough juice to make it worth it.

 

[Link]

how about a very very large trailer, with normal caps from junked tvs etc, um maybe not

LOL

Current-gen supercap = 1/10 - 1/2 the energy density of SLAs.

Normal cap = 1/100 - 1-10,000 the energy density of a supercap.

Uhhh.. gravimetric or volumetric? (energy/mass or energy/volume)

Either. :wink:

Though I usually see gravimetric. Probably because they're less dense than SLAs, so look even worse when compared by volume.

I was thinking these might be good with a solar powered charger, alongside your normal ebike setup. I would use it like a booster pack, to get up that hill, or around that car, etc... I wonder how long it would take to charge up enough juice to make it worth it.

I thought about it, but figured a pack of suitable size would run around $200. A booster of A123s or high-rate-LiPo would be a better choice at that point. :?

 

[recumpence]

http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm

http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/ultracaps.htm



Matt

 

[Ben]

According to my calculations, that's 375Wh for $4800.

A123s look pretty attractive in comparison.

 

[swbluto]

But A123s don't last a lifetime, and your prodigy's lifetime, and that progidy's prodigy's lifetime, and that... etc.

Except, I can imagine its usefulness would be limited to 10 years AT MAX as newer energy storage technologies are exploding on the scene so, yeah, a123s are pretty attractive in comparison.

 

[317537]

The ultracaps that we are looking at are developed by Maxwell 2.5 volts@55 farad, if I remember correct. I guess the whole topic here is at present based on this technology, What has got me interested in ultra caps is EEstor's new patent...

They are using multilayered barium titanate ceramic capacitor and are boasting a healthy 450 W/H per KG thats a good 4500 watt hours for a 10 kg pack that can charge in minutes.

http://www.lightevs.com/

EEStor EESUs are expected to provide over 450 watt hours per kilogram and over 700 watt hours per liter, charge in minutes, and, for all practical vehicular purposes, last indefinitely. By comparison, lithium iron phosphate batteries provide about 100 watt hours per kilogram and 170 watt hours per liter. Unlike electrochemical batteries, EESUs should not break down from use or time during the life of a vehicle. They are expected to deliver high current without loss of efficiency or excess heat, and they should operate at optimum efficiency over a wide range of ambient temperatures. They will be configurable for any output voltage that optimizes vehicle performance, and will maintain that output voltage at a constant level over the span of each discharge cycle. Production is expected to start mid 2009.

http://earth2tech.com/2008/09/30/eestor-to-super-charge-electric-bikes/

John Stephens, Executive Vice President, said in the release that LightEVs plans to use EEStor’s technology to make an electric bicycle with a 100 mile range and is considering developing a three-wheel, two-passenger electric vehicle with a range of up to 500 miles on a single charge and a top speed of 85 mph. Impressive sounding, but we’re still waiting for details on how the technology exactly works and performs.

http://www.reuk.co.uk/EEStor-Battery-Ultracapacitor.htm

According to the latest information available, full charge can be achieved in minutes rather than hours since overheating is not an issue (unlike existing battery technology), and hundreds of thousands of recharge cycles are possible without performance falling. According to EEStor a 17kWh system could be charged in just 4-6 minutes. A 400lb 52kWh electrical storage unit (ESU) will eventually be marketed at $3,200 with prices falling to $2,100 with volume production.

The only limitation to these ultracaps is they wont charge under -20c temperature and don’t like anything above 60c and this is a small set back to some consumers. Like if you charge somewhere in northern canada mid winter you may need to include heating elements just to take the temp up a little.


Although lithium technologies are more than likley going to find something better in the future the charging time is going to be its biggest hurdle. At worst this new technology if it works like the inventors claims will certainly bring the price down on a few products. Healthy competition is a good thing.

 

[317537]

Some more info...

http://theeestory.com/articles/55

1) quick 10 minute charge

2) the storage system would last for the life of the bike (even better than the most expensive lithium with 4000 cycles)

3) size and weight advantages the producers I spoke with described as "massive advantages in the market" (700 watts in a liter of space)

4) same cost per watt as lithium polymers

5) the offer would follow Sanyo's recent strategy of including in the package the battery, the controller, the motor as well as the charger. per unit pricing would be applied--they were not offering territories or exclusive rights deals.

6) the printing press production method was described as having enormous throughput able to create capacitors that can be "rolled, twisted or bended into practically any shape" dictated by the bike's design. :lol: Said one of those I spoke with, "almost like rolling cardboard so you could fit it into practically any shape." The production was compared to some of the new methods of manufacturing computers which favors printing methods vs component construction methods.

Soon they are going to fly, serve dinner and baby sit your kids. Ermm maybe!

Here is an interesting comment.

http://www.ultracapacitors.org/

On the battery front though the component for making the latest generation of batteries - Lithium - is in short supply. Like oil there is a finite ability to procure Lithium. Building cars with Lithium batteries will quickly deplete that supply. The battery companies are really up against a wall, they are at the end of the chemical power storage list, there is nothing else that would have more power than the Lithium cell. As the Lithium supply is depleted the cost for this element (no. 3 after Hydrogen and Helium) will go up.

The future is much brighter for the cap companies. Capacitors already enjoy the benefit of fast charging and discharging. Caps can be totally discharged without failure, left in sub zero temperatures for months (or years). Sub zero charging is no problem. Caps also charge at a 95% rate of efficiency. Capacitors can be charged a half million times (or more) and not show any aging (failure to hold full charge). No exotic materials are needed to make a capacitor and no depletion of any material will occur. All these qualities are needed by the auto manufacturers for a car that is less expensive, will start every time and have a long life

Time will tell.

 

[Link]

Yeah, we've been seeing EEStor's stuff for a long time now. Mostly talking about possibilities for stuff we can actually buy now. Plus, don't they have like an exclusive contract with some military company or something? :?

 

[paultrafalgar]

This has nothing to do with this thread BUT...
Suppose you were a smart executive wondering how you could extract some spondulies from the Credit Cruched business environment.
What better way than to set up NanoUltraCap Corp, collect a few buddies around you as VPs, pay yourselves colossal bonuses
each year and issue news bulletins sporadically claiming that you had made progress and could achieve 50GWh/gram electrical power density.
It would, of course, be imperative to keep all your "research facilities" strictly hidden from the nosy press since there would be
nothing going on in them of significance. By the time the world discovered what you were up to, you would be safely ensconced in your yacht in the Cayman Islands.
What do you think, should we try it?

 

[317537]

Yeah, we've been seeing EEStor's stuff for a long time now. Mostly talking about possibilities for stuff we can actually buy now. Plus, don't they have like an exclusive contract with some military company or something? :?

Does that mean, no ultracaps for the masses?

With the inductive qualities of the ultracap you could charge packs with RF fast and efficiently. Telsa's invention transfering power through mid air would become a reality. WOW. With great induction (ability to charge in seconds) comes great reduction (the ability to discharge in seconds.)

How well would a cap pack go against EMP compared to chemical storage?

I think like they are 1000's of times better at charging they would be 1000's of times better at being bricked by an emp. All you need is a communications antenna, a fantasic inductive component like the ultra cap, and a good emp and and zap

-20 deg c

How well will they go up in freezing space?

How well would they go 10,000 feet above sea level traveling at mach 3?

This tech suits EV's more than anything in my mind.

I really cant see why the military is interested as you can not compete with chemical storage reliability.

Maybe if EEstor ultracaps work in EV's they should be given out for free with a free solar charge kit Then the military can come home as we wont be worried about oil anymore. The military will be happy too because the air at home will be cleaner than they ever remember.

 

[317537]

This has nothing to do with this thread BUT...

Agreed ... but indeed worth the chuckle it hath given unto meeeee.

JKe :lol:

 

[317537]

I dont think we will have to sink any rich peoples yachts just yet..

http://www.zenncars.com/

Press release from Zenn Motors. Oct 4 2008...

“Yesterday’s announcement bodes well for EEStor’s completion of its third party verified
permittivity milestone and is a very strong affirmation of our investment in and the rapid
progress of our business plan,” stated Ian Clifford, Chief Executive Officer. “Energy
Storage has always been the Achilles heel to the mass adoption of electric vehicles and
EEStor technology is the “better battery” that the world has been waiting for. Every
technology and industry reliant on electrical energy storage will potentially benefit from
this.”
The Company has exclusive rights to EEStor’s technology in the following markets:
 ALL new vehicles up to 1400 kg (curb weight), net of battery weight;
 ALL retrofit conversions of existing internal combustion vehicles to electric;
 ALL golf carts and small to mid-sized utility vehicles
In March of 2008, ZENN Motor Company detailed its plans to fully prepare for the
commercialization of EEStor’s technology.
The cityZENN is planned to be a fully certified, highway capable vehicle with a top
speed of 125 km/h/ 80 mph and a range of 400 kilometres/250 miles. An EEStor
powered cityZENN would be rechargeable in less than 5 minutes, feature operating
costs 1/10th of a typical internal combustion engine vehicle and be 100% emission-free!
The Company is working with strategic OEMs to offer a ZENNergyâ„¢ drivetrain,
powered by EEStor, in various vehicle platforms as “Powered by ZENNergy” branded
vehicles. ZENNergy drive systems will also be developed for the conversion of existing
internal combustion vehicles to electric drive. The Company’s initial target for these
retrofit kits will be large, high-profile fleet opportunities.

It's going to happen by the looks of things.

 

[Link]

Yeah, we've been seeing EEStor's stuff for a long time now. Mostly talking about possibilities for stuff we can actually buy now. Plus, don't they have like an exclusive contract with some military company or something? :?

Does that mean, no ultracaps for the masses?

No, it just means no ultracaps for a while. And not for cheap for longer still. :?

With the inductive qualities of the ultracap you could charge packs with RF fast and efficiently. Telsa's invention transfering power through mid air would become a reality. WOW. With great induction (ability to charge in seconds) comes great reduction (the ability to discharge in seconds.

No idea what the inductive properties of the cap have to do with anything. Especially since capacitance is basically the opposite/inverse of inductance...not getting into the wireless power thing...

How well would a cap pack go against EMP compared to chemical storage

Equally, I think. Assuming the electronic bits are properly shrouded. EMPs can only fry tiny circuits. One large enough to destroy something like the physical structure of a cap or somehow with enough energy to overcharge it enough to break down the dielectric would be a lot more bothersome than the broken cap, that much I'm sure of.

I think like they are 1000's of times better at charging they would be 1000's of times better at being bricked by an emp. All you need is a communications antenna, a fantasic inductive component like the ultra cap, and a good emp and and zap

Also, now that I think about it, the output of the cap will be going through some regulating electronics (what with the 3.5kV working voltage and all), so yeah...

How well will they go up in freezing space?

Only need supercaps and solar panels for that, really. Or isolate them in aerogel and use a tiny bit of their own energy (for all I know what they lose to leakage current may even be enough) to keep them warmish.

How well would they go 10,000 feet above sea level traveling at mach 3?

Prolly as good as a regular battery.

This tech suits EV's more than anything in my mind.

I really cant see why the military is interested as you can not compete with chemical storage reliability.

A battery won't last indefinitely even if left alone and can't be recharged practically forever. :?

In any case, I don't really see these being available for a few years. EEStor hasn't even come up with anything other than permittivity info for their precious super-pure barium titanate stuff.

And, unfortunately, they'll be made in single, solid units, meaning that even when (see: if) that Zenn car comes out, we won't be able to use it's pack for our bikes.

Can't we sink some yachts for the lulz, anyway?

(Snaaaaaap I need to go to bed...)

 

[317537]

No idea what the inductive properties of the cap have to do with anything. Especially since capacitance is basically the opposite/inverse of inductance...not getting into the wireless power thing...

A full cap has capacity and is not inductive and yes quite the opposite.

I made this led torch from 2.5v 2 X 55 farad (5 v 27.5 farad series) caps that charges from a usb slot. If I charge it from 0 volts to +5 volts on a PC psu it will crash two out of three computers in my house from the current it will draw, you can hear the solid state flex inside the psu as soon as you connect them, is that inductance at work?.... Lucky that the leds cut out leaving some charge in the caps so it only happens when the caps have zilch charge.

Equally, I think. Assuming the electronic bits are properly shrouded. EMPs can only fry tiny circuits. One large enough to destroy something like the physical structure of a cap or somehow with enough energy to overcharge it enough to break down the dielectric would be a lot more bothersome than the broken cap, that much I'm sure of.

Im not talking frying Im talking discharging. yeah i agree its a big charge field to take down. You cant or shouldnt shroud a communication antenaa. It would be a lonely world on the radio if you did ..

Only need supercaps and solar panels for that, really. Or isolate them in aerogel and use a tiny bit of their own energy (for all I know what they lose to leakage current may even be enough) to keep them warmish.

Man do you work for NASA

How well would they go 10,000 feet above sea level traveling at mach 3?

Prolly as good as a regular battery.

Lifepos are amazing compared to any other tech out there when it comes to operating temperatures. The only thing is they need a baby mom sitter (BMS) to balance them..

A battery won't last indefinitely even if left alone and can't be recharged practically forever. :?

Yes the ultracap does shine in this area, but to disagree with my post, man you confuse me, but I like it...

And, unfortunately, they'll be made in single, solid units, meaning that even when (see: if) that Zenn car comes out, we won't be able to use it's pack for our bikes.

Whats that batman? your ass is talking! Can you confirm this?

Can't we sink some yachts for the lulz, anyway?

Now here we have it you just like sinking yachts . But yes there are a few that need sinking...

 

[317537]

I do like the doubt everyone throws at these companies, like holy dung im still waiting for my freaking Laser TV (its coming) Still with all the doubt in this world, we have those who persist and still invest into these great technologies so we can use them one day.

However, If everyone believed everything they read or saw and invested into anything, our world would be run by porn sites owners, so adversity has its place, I just trust my research.

I think the lil baby oil barons that keep whining about patents are soon going to realize their investment in oil was short term and a very bad one. They can’t keep buying patents and blocking use of them, it is a conflict of interest. It stops now...

The people (you) give these oil honchos the license, permits and right to drill up the oil and wreck the whole joint to begin with, on the grounds they are doing something usefull for society (providing energy). If oil companies try, block, stop or buy and bury better cleaner technologies the oil companies are acting irresponsibly unto the people and have a conflict of interest to their own needs (to be richer than everyone) and thus should have their permits placed under review.

If new tech keeps getting blocked by the patents officers via oil companies, we'll just ignore that man sitting in his office and re-invent and use what ever we want.

Sue me, I'm bankrupt.

317537
1 mW

 

[Link]

No idea what the inductive properties of the cap have to do with anything. Especially since capacitance is basically the opposite/inverse of inductance...not getting into the wireless power thing...

A full cap has capacity and is not inductive and yes quite the opposite.

I made this led torch from 2.5v 2 X 55 farad (5 v 27.5 farad series) caps that charges from a usb slot. If I charge it from 0 volts to +5 volts on a PC psu it will crash two out of three computers in my house from the current it will draw, you can hear the solid state flex inside the psu as soon as you connect them, is that inductance at work?.... Lucky that the leds cut out leaving some charge in the caps so it only happens when the caps have zilch charge.

In electrical circuits, any electric current i produces a magnetic field and hence generates a total magnetic flux Φ acting on the circuit. This magnetic flux, due to Lenz's law tends to act to oppose changes in the flux by generating a voltage (a back EMF) that counters or tends to reduce the rate of change in the current. The ratio of the magnetic flux to the current is called the self-inductance which is usually simply referred to as the inductance of the circuit. The term 'inductance' was coined by Oliver Heaviside in February 1886.[1] It is customary to use the symbol L for inductance, possibly in honour of the physicist Heinrich Lenz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductance

And I'm betting it will crash the computers. A USB port is only capable of 2A, while a supercap like that (even one with relatively high ESR) will be trying to get like 10A or more out of it.

Im not talking frying Im talking discharging. yeah i agree its a big charge field to take down. You cant or shouldnt shroud a communication antenaa. It would be a lonely world on the radio if you did

Like in the event it gets shorted out? Or just normal use? Shouldn't be any detectable EMF during normal operation. Shorting it out might be a different story. Let's just say I'm betting they'll be using some very expensive, very fast HV fuses in them to cover their butts from lawsuits.

Man do you work for NASA

I work at a library. We have books about NASA if that counts.

Lifepos are amazing compared to any other tech out there when it comes to operating temperatures. The only thing is they need a baby mom sitter (BMS) to balance them

A123's have -30°C to 60°C operating temps. I think you said EEStor units work at -20°C to 60°C. Not that much different. :?

Whats that batman? your ass is talking! Can you confirm this?

You're right, Robin!

No, actually, I have no proof they will, but there's not much reason for them not to. Because you don't have to deal with the limited voltage that an electrochemical reaction can produce, you don't need to put a bunch of caps in series. They MIGHT use a bunch of smaller caps in parallel, but that subtracts a little from energy density (since there's more packaging material) and increases the chance of something failing.

On the plus side, multiple small caps could be contained and thereby avert disaster if one of them fails. I'm actually pretty scared of these things. I've had capacitors explode on me for and it's incredibly violent for the amount of energy they store. Vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8nT97CrgcU

Given the energy density differences between a typical EDLC and an EEStor, that would have been about 30,000 times more powerful if it was an ultracap. And the ones in a car would need to be way, way bigger than that tiny little thing. Add to that their multi-kV working voltage and you've got a rather large bomb on your hands if something goes disastrously wrong.

Now, to be fair, capacitors don't normally fail like that. They usually just puff up, get hot, and maybe pop a little. However, the amount of energy they store is small enough to be converted to an amount of heat that might maybe melt the plastic covering on the cap. An EEStor would turn into a red hot puddle of slag if it fails like this instead of exploding. SUPPOSEDLY, they've found a way to take care of the exploding problem. What it is, I don't know, but I really hope they aren't stretching the truth. I'd much prefer it turn into a boiling gob of magma than suddenly convert into an incredibly pressurized cloud of gas...

I'll admit, safety's a pretty good argument for multiple small caps, but the problem is that if the shielding between the caps needed to prevent a cascading failure takes up too much room, the cap won't actually offer any more volumetric energy density than something like LiPo/Co or perhaps even LiFe.

I do like the doubt everyone throws at these companies, like holy dung im still waiting for my freaking Laser TV (its coming) Still with all the doubt in this world, we have those who persist and still invest into these great technologies so we can use them one day.

But, not only have they've actually built and shown off a Laser TV, the plan on selling them sometime before the end of the year. I've been hearing the same "cheese sandwich" analogy out of EEStor for a few years, and those who got into this sort of thing before I did have been hearing it for even longer. :?

I still plan on being one of the first to own an EESU-powered bike if this ever comes to fruition.

Sue me, I'm bankrupt.

Meh. Talk to me after I make more than $10/hr after school.

(I had to try so hard to not reference that "Come back when you're a little...mmm...richer!" clip just there...)

(*previews post* Longpost is loooooong. )

 

[317537]

And I'm betting it will crash the computers.

It hasnt since I hooked it up soldered and sealed the box. As I said leds cut off at 1.4 volts leaving a good whack of current left inside the cap. This analogy opens a new door of problems though. It needs a charge resistor to slow it down when charging from 0 volts, then whats the point of the ultra fast charge system. That current at EV car voltages voltages are seriously in the killing field. But on the other hand how dangerous is gas in comparison. From fuel station to gas tank its a bombastic, messy and stupid arrangment and thats being nice.

A123's have -30°C to 60°C operating temps. I think you said EEStor units work at -20°C to 60°C. Not that much different. :?

I read much better results on one PDF but now I see the bigger picture, figures tend to differ...

You're right, Robin!

Dang! Did you have to make me the side kick in this

Now, to be fair, capacitors don't normally fail like that. They usually just puff up, get hot, and maybe pop a little.

Caps blowing? Ive nearly lost three eye's to caps blowing a high presure jet of toxic crap. Been lucky I guess, but be warned when connecting controllers up to main a supply. KEEP YOU FACE WELL AWAY FROM THE PCB!

But, not only have they've actually built and shown off a Laser TV, the plan on selling them sometime before the end of the year. I've been hearing the same "cheese sandwich" analogy out of EEStor for a few years, and those who got into this sort of thing before I did have been hearing it for even longer. :?

Yeah but everyone whined about it being hog wash for two years before we saw people boogie dancing in front of them at the unveiling party. lol.

I still plan on being one of the first to own an EESU-powered bike if this ever comes to fruition.

Naaaaa aaaah, me will be the first

*sets up tent outside of EEstor*.

(*previews post* Longpost is loooooong. )

My bad. I do read it, so IMHO you have not wasted your time. Ill try keep the chars down more,

 

[Link]

And I'm betting it will crash the computers.

It hasnt since I hooked it up soldered and sealed the box. As I said leds cut off at 1.4 volts leaving a good whack of current left inside the cap. This analogy opens a new door of problems though. It needs a charge resistor to slow it down when charging from 0 volts, then whats the point of the ultra fast charge system. That current at EV car voltages voltages are seriously in the killing field. But on the other hand how dangerous is gas in comparison. From fuel station to gas tank its a bombastic, messy and stupid arrangment and thats being nice.

Use a current limited supply. A lot of people here already have them in the form of brushed controllers. Prolly won't really matter, since all the charging circuitry will be in the EESU. Since they'll have to stuff a bunch of power conversion circuitry in there anyway, there isn't much point in having a whole separate charger outside of the thing when they can share some of the same parts and save a little money on production costs.

Dang! Did you have to make me the side kick in this

You set yourself up for it.

Caps blowing? Ive nearly lost three eye's to caps blowing a high presure jet of toxic crap. Been lucky I guess, but be warned when connecting controllers up to main a supply. KEEP YOU FACE WELL AWAY FROM THE PCB!

Yeah, prolly a good idea. I was gonna make a video of a small current-gen 2.5V 1F supercap blowing up, but I seem to have lost the cap and I don't want to blow up my much more expensive 20F and 50F ones. Mebbe get a couple more next time I make a DigiKey order.

Naaaaa aaaah, me will be the first

*sets up tent outside of EEstor*.

Get vids of when Lockheed-Martin tells you to GTFO.

My bad. I do read it, so IMHO you have not wasted your time. Ill try keep the chars down more

No prob. I have like no life anyway. :wink:

 

[317537]

Use a current limited supply. A lot of people here already have them in the form of brushed controllers. Prolly won't really matter, since all the charging circuitry will be in the EESU. Since they'll have to stuff a bunch of power conversion circuitry in there anyway, there isn't much point in having a whole separate charger outside of the thing when they can share some of the same parts and save a little money on production costs.

Yep...

The Zenn car will just have an AC socket for charging. Id imagine it will have current limiting in the primary stage from 0 volts to X volts then open up to a full charge when its safer... You got to think a charge time of a 5-10 minutes in an electric car that can do 300+ miles on one charge there wouldn’t be much in the way of that load of coulombs traveling. And caps charge sooo much better on pure DC. I cant get my caps to charge well on a nimh charger as the pulse feeds takes the volts down as quick as it rises. Even a standard AC/DC adapter with the standard 4 way bridge rectifier seems to slump any of the caps I stick into it. Like you said they draw a good amount of current.

The USB (5v) on a fast switch phase PSU charges them dandy, (2x 2.5v 55 farad caps in series ) 200 mA is enough and it takes no more than a minute to fully charge them and a 10 seconds to top them up. The 5v Molex on a PSU works even better. The speed of the switch phase make the difference. Even using AAA batteries charge these big caps is way better than a DC adapter or a battery charger. Hold that 55 farad cap legs the wires of a 2X D Cell nimh (2.4v in series) together when charging with your fingers, OUCH! it burns.

So if you get an EEstor battery for an E-bike and there is no built in charger, forget about that smart charger. You’d be better off with some solar panels in series a regulator and a few 80ah SLA's in series to charge directly. No inverter needed just pure DC. Or even better use Solar panels in series an EEstore ultra cap to charge an EEstore ultra cap, wow. These ultracaps are going to put the rocket (well sort of) into solar applications allowing the full beneifit of the potential watts available from the panels without charging some old SLA over the day..

We getting some 2X150 watt panels soon. Its got me thinking about the charge output of a solar panel, can it charge ultra caps like a battery can? If so, we are talking 300 watts per hour with little waste. Try 1 kw of solar panels! You would have no problem squeezing everything that they are worth an 1.5 hours and use a smaller Ah CAP batteries and screw them for all they are worth without any DOD problems.

EEstor's still mythical ultracaps will change the way all people that use batteries do things across the board. IT’'S GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD!!!!!!1

No prob. I have like no life anyway

Dont be so hard on yourself. Ive had mine leeched out of me by 7 succubus's, I think you call them children..

 

[Link]

I should mod my flashlight to run off a pair of those 50F supercaps. I even have some D-sized spacers used to make AAs fit in something that takes D-cells from my purchase of a pack of Eneloop LSD NiMHs...hmm...

Dont be so hard on yourself. Ive had mine leeched out of me by 7 succubus's, I think you call them children

Nasty little things. Glad I never was one. :wink:

(Five internet dollars if you figure out that reference.)

 

[317537]

I should mod my flashlight to run off a pair of those 50F supercaps. I even have some D-sized spacers used to make AAs fit in something that takes D-cells from my purchase of a pack of Eneloop LSD NiMHs...hmm...

Yes you can use a 2.5 volt 3 watt volt krypton bulb and use 4 x 55 farad caps in parallel should give you enough power to do the trick for what people use torches for. you need a charger though and 2.5 volts is a little weird. That why I did the leds. I used two 2.5 volt caps in series to make 5v used an 80 ohm 1/4 (I think) watt resistor to take the 5 volts down to 3.65v and limit the curren underthe load and burn it overvolted for about an 20 mins and it settles at nominal voltage for a good 4 hours till it cuts out. I left it on over night once and it was still going in the morning. And I lose half of my farad (27.5F) using the caps in series... The 2.5 volt 3 watt krypton with the 4 caps in parallel = 8 times the capacity of my caps should give my led design a good run for its money. However remember you will drain those caps down to 0.

Lessons learnt.. Use 1-3 watt resistor in your charge route to your cap legs, you need to work the ohms out depending on how what your source current is and you could use your usb to charge, Id start with 1 watt then move the watts up... The bigger the watt resistor the faster the charge, the faster the charge the more chance you got making that puter crash.. May be use an LVC so you dont over drain the caps. I estimate you would need at least 1/4 left before you crash your puter PSU...

Nasty little things. Glad I never was one. :wink:

(Five internet dollars if you figure out that reference.)

Agatha Trunchbull: They're all mistakes, children! Filthy, nasty things. Glad I never was one.

took 10 seconds $5 ID please

 

[Link]

And I lose half of my farad (27.5F) using the caps in series...

Yeah, but you still get the same total energy as 4 caps in parallel, since the voltage is the part that increases the energy stored exponentially (so says E = 1/2C * V^2 [surprised that hasn't popped up in this thread already]).

Also, quick note, caps don't have a nominal voltage, only a max operating one. Their voltage is directly proportionate to the amount of charge they have left.

As for taking them down to zero, I don't know of anything that says caps don't last as long when "deep cycled". Granted, using a cap like a power battery (as opposed to a backup power source for ICs or as filters) is unusual, so that's probably why...

As for charging, sticking a pair of NiMH/NiCds in series would work. Or I could just get a small transformer and rectify its output.

Agatha Trunchbull: They're all mistakes, children! Filthy, nasty things. Glad I never was one.

took 10 seconds $5 ID please

YES. *bows low* *hands over 5ND*

 

[ZapPat]

Here is an interesting comment.

http://www.ultracapacitors.org/

On the battery front though the component for making the latest generation of batteries - Lithium - is in short supply. Like oil there is a finite ability to procure Lithium. Building cars with Lithium batteries will quickly deplete that supply. The battery companies are really up against a wall, they are at the end of the chemical power storage list, there is nothing else that would have more power than the Lithium cell. As the Lithium supply is depleted the cost for this element (no. 3 after Hydrogen and Helium) will go up.

The future is much brighter for the cap companies. Capacitors already enjoy the benefit of fast charging and discharging. Caps can be totally discharged without failure, left in sub zero temperatures for months (or years). Sub zero charging is no problem. Caps also charge at a 95% rate of efficiency. Capacitors can be charged a half million times (or more) and not show any aging (failure to hold full charge). No exotic materials are needed to make a capacitor and no depletion of any material will occur. All these qualities are needed by the auto manufacturers for a car that is less expensive, will start every time and have a long life

Time will tell.

I was curious to see if this is true or not (always question statements made by people/entities with vested interests), so checked out wikipedia and found this page:
Relative_abundance_of_elements
From what I see here, barium is just as "rare" as lithium in our earth's crust. Blows away that third bolded statement about "no exotic materials are needed for ultracaps". Of course maybe less of it is needed for the same energy content, but we have no idea yet.

Also VERY interesting: If we check this same abundance chart, we see that cadmium is about 5000 times rarer than lithium in the earth's crust! Now who has heard that we were runing out of cadmium for our batteries so far? This blows away the first two bolded statements about lithium's short supply, and makes me very weary of the ultracapacitor.org site, that's for sure!

 

[ZapPat]

To add to my last post about lithium's rarety, I check the same wiki chart and came up with a couple other interesting comparisons:

Lithium vs Copper: 10 times more.
Lithium vs Lead: about 50 times more.

Now who wrote up that blurb about lithium's rarety?

We'll probably run out of energy to process the lithum before we run out of lithium itself!

The lesson: always doubt "official" statements.

Of course there is always the MIT's carbon nanotube ultracaps that I would like to see come to life, because we won't run out of carbon anytime soon!