Unknown Hub Motor and new Chinese controller the size of 1/2 loaf of bread. Issues running.

[Izzy2004]

Good evening,

So Im having a little strange predicament. Now don't get me wrong I've been around, I'm not fully green when it comes to blowing up controllers, jimmy-ing open stubborn hub motors and of course globs. But this issue is interesting to me. So basically I ended up blowing up my previous controller (YKZ7280) of course seems the weakling mosfets they put on there aren't up to the challenge of a solid soldered shunt.

Well I ended up getting it's big brother the YKZ120150. I really like these controllers , cheap and very effective. During shipping I noticed all my hall sensors blew as well so I replaced them with Honeywell 41Fs and rewired the motor with 10 Gauge wire. (Got some trippy wire off Amazon, boasting 1060 strands of tinned copper and floppy as freshly cooked spaghetti). Anyway it turned out well and the motor passes the hall voltage spinny tests. Definitely not shorted anywhere.

So here the issue when I wired everything and here's the two working scenarios I get from trying different phase/hall combinations.

1. When bike is lifted and I'm not sitting on it motor spins like crazy going up to 120+km/h on the odometer on the phone program that controller uses. When I sit down and try to go the motor suddenly appears to have no torque and just makes sounds that I experienced when LVC has been hit or there's a poor contact somewhere. Kind of grinding/slipping/crunching noise Im sure you all know what I mean.

2. Bike runs smooth but never using more than 20 amps even at takeoff, kind of sluggish but the motor sounds glorious. However the battery consumption is insane draining my batteries within minutes. Also there is a huge voltage drop every time the the throttle is used. Basically some messed up false positive.

Im a bit confused on what the issue could be. Is it more than just my phase combinations? The motor is wired like this:


The stock controller was wired color matching and looks like this:


New controller as well as the blown one have wiring like so:

View attachment 3


I don't even remember what I had beforehand when I blew the 7280, I did but after a day of hall/phase combinations and troubleshooting I can't even think straight.

Basically Im running Y-Y/ B-G/ G-B as my hall and the same for my phase. I went through a few diagrams that help with this but still nothing.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[amberwolf]

The descriptions match what you get with the wrong phase/hall combos, "false positives".

Could be something else, but what I'd do is go to http://ebikes.ca and look at the Grinfineon controller manual on the controller product info pages. It has a chart in there on how to determine the right combo that's simple and effective.

If you still cant' find a working combo, then something else is wrong.

But first I'd check that, making sure to chart each combination and exactly what results it has.

Don't use more than a tiny amoutn of throttle and make sure you're watching the current draw as you test, off-ground, because you should get normal motor operation at less than an amp or two of battery current draw. Once you get that, you can try increasing throttle to see what happens, and after that then test it under load (on ground).

If there are no working phase/hall combos, then either the motor is damaged (fried halls again, phase shorted to stator, etc), or the controller is damaged, or the controller requires some sort of software setup to work with your specific motor. Or some other thing I havent' thought of is wrong.

 

[Balmorhea]

Amberwolf has got it right.

When I reconcile a brushless motor and controller that were not intended to work together, it's always a guessing game to get the wire assignments. One combination runs normally, one runs backwards but otherwise normally, and one combination in each direction runs way too fast, with too much no-load current and not enough torque.

It sounds like you have one of the latter combinations, so you need to keep trying other permutations.

 

[Izzy2004]

The descriptions match what you get with the wrong phase/hall combos, "false positives".

Could be something else, but what I'd do is go to http://ebikes.ca and look at the Grinfineon controller manual on the controller product info pages. It has a chart in there on how to determine the right combo that's simple and effective.

If you still cant' find a working combo, then something else is wrong.

But first I'd check that, making sure to chart each combination and exactly what results it has.

Don't use more than a tiny amoutn of throttle and make sure you're watching the current draw as you test, off-ground, because you should get normal motor operation at less than an amp or two of battery current draw. Once you get that, you can try increasing throttle to see what happens, and after that then test it under load (on ground).

If there are no working phase/hall combos, then either the motor is damaged (fried halls again, phase shorted to stator, etc), or the controller is damaged, or the controller requires some sort of software setup to work with your specific motor. Or some other thing I havent' thought of is wrong.

Thank you fot responding so quickly. I followed this one https://electricbike.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=49479&d=1509377475.

It quickly gets to both me scenarios but it's still the same dealio.. a controller that can spin this 500W motor to the point where it feels like it's going to explode is seemingly only ridable with a 20-30amp handicap. It's definitely not the correct phase combination but it does work for the meantime. I got to about 55km/h so that's nice. Still maybe I messed up the hall sensors. I didn't really use that good of glue but rather marine epoxy.. And i was greedy with it so maybe one or two of them are wobbling. You think this could affect something? Operation while not under load wise?

Thanks,

Izzy.

 

[Izzy2004]

Amberwolf has got it right.

When I reconcile a brushless motor and controller that were not intended to work together, it's always a guessing game to get the wire assignments. One combination runs normally, one runs backwards but otherwise normally, and one combination in each direction runs way too fast, with too much no-load current and not enough torque.

It sounds like you have one of the latter combinations, so you need to keep trying other permutations.

And thank you for mentioning this. I never heard the one running way too fast with zero torque. I guess the controller is just not very fast. I got too exited with the combination that runs very fast it seems. Truth be told this is my first time doing phase combinations. Usually by looking at the controller and hub-motor I can just wire it correctly without this trial and error. I guess my "just wire it correctly" this time lead to the superfast no torque mode.

Im gonna say this is solved then thank you guys.. I have a combination that makes it run well enough and the motor sounds beautiful. More quiet and responsive that before (maybe due to cleaning and re-wiring?). But overall no real speed difference between the significantly cheaper one the ykz72080. I think I may need more amp hours. I guess 20 isn't going to give me 400 instant and 150 cont. So darn expensive though. Need to find where to get cheap lithium cells. Getting to the point where Im just considering spot welding myself using salvaged laptop cells.

Have a good Wednesday!

 

[Balmorhea]

[...]
But overall no real speed difference between the significantly cheaper one the ykz72080. I think I may need more amp hours. I guess 20 isn't going to give me 400 instant and 150 cont.

Your maximum speed will always be more a function of battery voltage than the current you have available. Your big controller will allow you to climb and accelerate faster, though, up to the capabilities of your battery. It's harder on the battery to demand more current, so that's the trade-off.

If you switch to automotive cells or high rate RC packs for your battery, it will be easier for the battery to meet the demand of the bigger controller.