Used Jump Bafang Hub for Budget Build?

[docw009]

Probably not that unusual about weight, but I put a hitchhiker rig on mine when the grandkid came to visit, and the motor would have to pull almost 350 pounds on 20A and 36V.

Mine came with Schwalbe tire and a nice tube with a knurled nut on the valve stem.Also a 160mm rotor with screws, a cable operated brake caliper, plus associated screws, and the axle hardware. While I couldn't use the special anti-theft axle nuts, the torque washers were good items. I bought two motors. Took the tire/tube off the second one as they were better than what I had on the bike. The second wheel might go on a trike someday.

 

[ynot]

Calling it my Jump trike, today got the motors, controllers, displays all wired up and working using one thumb throttle.
Took me a couple of days, the KT electrics kept returning a #3 error, took everything apart, tested each motor each controller each display, re soldered the throttle connections, after testing each wheel on a single set up, put them all together and ooops got a #3 error, started pulling it apart and one of the motor connections felt not quite right, lo it was not pushed in far enough.
Note to self, time you learned to plug stuff in. Embarrassing, but I needed to practice my soldering and analysis tool set anyroad.
If I get a chance tomorrow will tie everything down & take it for a spin. Gotta go easy tho' only has a coaster brake until I get the caliper mounts made.

 

[spaceship]

Received my shipment from Battery Clearing House, and I must say everything was packaged really well. The hubmotors and batteries came in separate boxes, each box was filled to the brim with packing popcorn. The batteries were double wrapped in bubble wrap. The hubs had the motor wires coiled and taped to the hub, some foam over each axle, and then double wrapped in bubble wrap. I wasn't sure what to expect since I had read of people receiving stuff with no protective packing, but that certainly wasnt the case here!




I got 4 packs containing 30 LG MH1 3200 mAh cells and started disassembly. The first one took about an hour, but the rest will be quick now that I know what I'm doing and where all the hidden screws are. Aside from the screws there was some double sided tape adhesive holding the cells in the plastic housing, turning a can of "canned air" duster upside down to spray the propellant liquid out works great freezes the adhesive so it easily peels apart.






For the first pack the cells all measured around 2.5v on initial testing but charged up fine in the charger/tester. The first 4 cells tested within 25mAh of the 3200mAh spec (some over some under) at 1A charge/discharge rate, so far so good. At 1A rate the test takes about 9 hours to run the test (3h charge, 3h discharge, 3h recharge) so if I'm on the ball I can test 8 cells per day. It will take a while to test all 120, but I'm in no big rush. Need to come up with a spot welder and BMS next.

From the research I've done so far I plan on making a welder using a microwave oven transformer and using an arduino to control the pulse time.

 

[ynot]

Was in touch with BCH this morning and they do not have any good wheel mounted motors but do have a few with bent rims.

 

[calab]

It is probably best that you buy a good rim and lace it to the hub motor so you have a bicycle related skill.

Was in touch with BCH this morning and they do not have any good wheel mounted motors but do have a few with bent rims.

 

[Chalo]

It is probably best that you buy a good rim and lace it to the hub motor so you have a bicycle related skill.

Was in touch with BCH this morning and they do not have any good wheel mounted motors but do have a few with bent rims.

+1

The limiting factor of these wheels even when they aren't bent is the rim, which isn't rim brake friendly and is laced with thick spokes (which aren't as reliable in the long run as thin spokes).

 

[gobi]

It is probably best that you buy a good rim and lace it to the hub motor so you have a bicycle related skill.

Was in touch with BCH this morning and they do not have any good wheel mounted motors but do have a few with bent rims.

+1

The limiting factor of these wheels even when they aren't bent is the rim, which isn't rim brake friendly and is laced with thick spokes (which aren't as reliable in the long run as thin spokes).

Chalo, is there a rim with the same ERD which can be used to remount the stock spokes to the new rim?
One of my wheels was way bent and the brake disks were warped maybe due to storage

 

[calab]

Chalo's fuming at reusing spokes, almost as bad as you driving a big dodge ram 3500 diesel.

That game is hard to play, as the ERD's of various rims vary so much, you might get lucky, you'd be lucky to find the complete list of rim erd's I know ones easy to find.

 

[calab]

How much did you end up paying in total and how long has it been since you got the package in your hands?

Just recently built up my first e-bike with a 1500w rear hub & 52v20ah battery and am having tons of fun. I'm looking at making a second e-bike for my gf to use when she visits. She is quite small and won't want to go very fast (20-30 kmph max probably) so I am looking at putting together a bike with a smaller hub. lighter battery, and I would like to keep it budget friendly. Also DIY appeals to me so I am looking at going more of a diy route.

I came across Battery Clearing House and found that they can ship to me in Canada. They have these Bafang 350w front hubs for $23.50 and they also have 10s3p packs of LG cells untested for cell salvage for $23.50. Even with conversion to CAD, shipping, and duty its a fairly small investment to play around with lacing a rim, building a battery pack,etc.

https://www.batteryclearinghouse.com/collections/canada-shipping

Would this be a good option with a bit of DIY elbow grease? How easy is to find a controller that will work with this, are they pretty much all universal as long as I have the wiring diagram?

I've read mixed things about dealing with Battery Clearing House, can anyone chime in with experience buying their products? Are they generally in the condition described? Should I expect a certain number of cells to be unusable?

Thanks for any input!

 

[spaceship]

How much did you end up paying in total and how long has it been since you got the package in your hands?

For 2 hubs and 4 of the 30 cell LG MH1 packs I paid $327 cad including shipping, however havnt paid duty yet. Fedex will send a bill for duty and brokerage in a few months, so they said. I can only hope that the chart of estimated duty charges that BCH displays is close to accurate

Ordered on April 3 delivered April 11

 

[motomech]

Chalo, is there a rim with the same ERD which can be used to remount the stock spokes to the new rim?
One of my wheels was way bent and the brake disks were warped maybe due to storage

Have you tried to true the whl.?
Loosen all the spokes and see where you at.
If the rim hasn't taken a really hard shot and has a flat spot, it probably can be pulled back in-line.
There's nothing wrong with the Jump rims if you are not using rim brakes (Not sure why one would want to ). You will need one of those round spoke wrenches, use the bike upside down as a truing stand and tape an old spoke on the fork leg as a gauge. Take your time and don't over-tighten. It won't cost you anything to try.

.....the brake disks were warped maybe due to storage.

Not sure how steel would change shape while static, especially those chunks. Those disc.s weight a ton, just toss them (but not at anybody, you could end up w/ an Oddjob moment). Discs are inexpensive.

 

[ynot]

How much did you end up paying in total and how long has it been since you got the package in your hands?

For 2 hubs and 4 of the 30 cell LG MH1 packs I paid $327 cad including shipping, however havnt paid duty yet. Fedex will send a bill for duty and brokerage in a few months, so they said. I can only hope that the chart of estimated duty charges that BCH displays is close to accurate

Ordered on April 3 delivered April 11

For two wheels the FED EX bill was a little under $80.
for the single wheel, even though there were two in the box it was a little under $40.
Of course now the border is open, they are out of wheels. AARRGGNN.

 

[Chalo]

Chalo's fuming at reusing spokes, almost as bad as you driving a big dodge ram 3500 diesel.

???

I don't have a problem with reusing spokes that don't have problems. But I wouldn't reuse spokes that were wrong for the job to begin with. Building a wheel poorly, to fall apart early, is a waste of effort and resources.

The other day, I switched the direction of the disc side spokes on one of these motors for a dude who found the stock pattern didn't allow enough space for his Monkeylights. It improved the wheel structurally (by reducing offset), but it didn't help as much as using correct spokes would have.

As for the rim's ERD, certainly there are close matches to be had, but I don't have a Jump bike rim here handy to measure it. If you upgrade the spokes and fix the problem with the lacing pattern, you can use whatever rim you like.

 

[spaceship]

Of course now the border is open, they are out of wheels. AARRGGNN.

Looks like ones with bent rims are still available

 

[Chalo]

Of course now the border is open, they are out of wheels. AARRGGNN.

Looks like ones with bent rims are still available

https://www.batteryclearinghouse.com/products/warped-rim-26-bafang-dc36v-electric-bike-wheel-with-tire
(Bent only, pair only. Cheaper than dirt.)

https://jag35.com/collections/e-bike/products/26-bafang-36v-dc-electric-bike-wheel-tire-w-tektro-disk-break

Get 'em while they last.

 

[calab]

Well then, that makes me wonder if the s/h price they quoted you was higher because of the 4 mh1's.
I will do a test order tonight or tomorrow.
Apr 3 for order to Apr 11 is not bad, puts more confidence in my to make an order.
You will be dinged a minimum of $40 from FedEx Ground shipping from a month to 2 months after its delivered.

How much did you end up paying in total and how long has it been since you got the package in your hands?

For 2 hubs and 4 of the 30 cell LG MH1 packs I paid $327 cad including shipping, however havnt paid duty yet. Fedex will send a bill for duty and brokerage in a few months, so they said. I can only hope that the chart of estimated duty charges that BCH displays is close to accurate

Ordered on April 3 delivered April 11

 

[calab]

Is that Jag website the same guy?
I did look, seems like similar picture quality and fonts.

I would have bet $2 on reusing spokes to be on par with cager rage.

https://www.batteryclearinghouse.com/products/warped-rim-26-bafang-dc36v-electric-bike-wheel-with-tire
(Bent only, pair only. Cheaper than dirt.)

https://jag35.com/collections/e-bike/products/26-bafang-36v-dc-electric-bike-wheel-tire-w-tektro-disk-break

Get 'em while they last.

 

[Chalo]

Is that Jag website the same guy?
I did look, seems like similar picture quality and fonts.

https://www.batteryclearinghouse.com/products/warped-rim-26-bafang-dc36v-electric-bike-wheel-with-tire
(Bent only, pair only. Cheaper than dirt.)

https://jag35.com/collections/e-bike/products/26-bafang-36v-dc-electric-bike-wheel-tire-w-tektro-disk-break

JAG35 is Jehu Garcia in California, unrelated to BCH except for being in the same general line of work.

I will note that everything I bought from BCH was extremely packed, while a buddy of mine received his Jump wheel from JAG35 in only a plastic bag.

 

[spaceship]

Is that Jag website the same guy?
I did look, seems like similar picture quality and fonts.

https://www.batteryclearinghouse.com/products/warped-rim-26-bafang-dc36v-electric-bike-wheel-with-tire
(Bent only, pair only. Cheaper than dirt.)

https://jag35.com/collections/e-bike/products/26-bafang-36v-dc-electric-bike-wheel-tire-w-tektro-disk-break

JAG35 is Jehu Garcia in California, unrelated to BCH except for being in the same general line of work.

I will note that everything I bought from BCH was extremely packed, while a buddy of mine received his Jump wheel from JAG35 in only a plastic bag.

I like that on the JAG35 site he takes the time to link other useful things to make it work, even the small details (axle nuts for example.) Ive watched his videos on youtube too, very helpful for the diy person. Its too bad he doesnt deal with shipping to Canada.

 

[motomech]

I received 2 Jag353 motor/whl. assemblies well packaged and in perfect cond. Timely too.
I still have one motor unused by me, but I doubt I could ship it for less money than what he sells and ships them for, so I have another paperweight.

 

[motomech]

So I looked at the "bent" whl. pics., they are not "bent", he's just covering his butt.
They just need trued, it's no big deal, the tire is not even skuffed.
Any shop could do it.
Heck, even I could do it, maybe an hour to an hour and a half.
As far as how to install these units, I covered in the endless, wandering torque arm thread.

 

[gobi]

So I looked at the "bent" whl. pics., they are not "bent", he's just covering his butt.
They just need trued, it's no big deal, the tire is not even skuffed.
Any shop could do it.
Heck, even I could do it, maybe an hour to an hour and a half.
As far as how to install these units, I covered in the endless, wandering torque arm thread.

Moto, makes sense, hence my question, if the rims are bent or damaged then we could switch em out.

Chalo, 12g spokes on uber/jump bike rims, 14 is the defacto standard for road bikes? I peeked at aliexpress and saw most of the spokes in one store were mostly 12G.

Calab, lol, it is a mid-life crisis thang, the diesel also sometimes is used to pull a 9000 lb camper. having 800lb ft of torque at 1260rpm is something we men want but not need mostly.

Op, can't wait to see your build, you could have left the packs as is and used them in parallel, my cheap uber build take two, I will probably use 5 or 6 of the packs in parallel.

BCH is top shelf merchant, never overcharges for shipping.
Jag32 - I can't recommend them for their sometimes crazy shipping $$$, obvious profiteering by jacking up shipping costs. Plus a bit deceptive in their selling disclosures.

 

[amberwolf]

Chalo, 12g spokes on uber/jump bike rims, 14 is the defacto standard for road bikes? I peeked at aliexpress and saw most of the spokes in one store were mostly 12G.

That's because once people started using the wrong spokes for the job, everyone else making the same thing imitated them, so most motor wheels have been built the wrong way for a long long time.

The idea with spokes is that they need to be tensioned properly *for the rim they are on*, and most of the rims used are not capable of handling the tension required for those thicker 12g spokes. (I'd go so far as to say that some of the crappier rims I've seen can't even handle the tension of 14g spokes...but that's probably being hyperbolic :lol: ).

14g, or 15g, is typical for regular bicycle wheels. Sometimes 14/15butted, or similar.

The thicker the spoke, the higher the tension required to make them operate as spokes are designed and intended to do, and take the load of the wheel without relaxing and loosening.

The higher the tension, the stronger the rim must be at the nipple hole, or else it will deform and/or crack, loosening the spokes, which then no longer take the load as intended, and can move around and break from cyclic stress. Or even just plain come unscrewed at the nipple (rarer) and fall out. As spokes detension, the rim has to directly support the load, and it's not intended for that, so you can end up with a wheel collapse.

So thinner spokes, with bicycle rims intended for them, will make a stronger wheel.

If you have a use case where normal well-built bicycle wheels fail, then you need something with stronger rims that can take the thicker spokes' tension (but you probably wont' find those on pre-built hubmotor wheels, which will probably fail even faster than the bicycle wheels did).

 

[spaceship]

Op, can't wait to see your build, you could have left the packs as is and used them in parallel, my cheap uber build take two, I will probably use 5 or 6 of the packs in parallel.

True, however I have been interested in building a DIY battery pack for some time. This is just an excuse to finally do it and start out with some cheaper than retail cells. Since I have to buy the capacity tester, spot welder, and any other gear I might need, having the discounted cells is nice to keep the "all at once" expenses down. And it doesnt hurt that they are high end LG cells for less than $1 ea! And so far every cell is testing at the 100% rated 3200mAh! The packs certainly would have been good to use as is, but as I said I have my own reasons for wanting to disassemble and build custom packs. I like diy and I like learning new skills.

 

[motomech]

I think time spent on "re-inventing" the "Jump" wheels is mis-placed. The materials and spoke patterns used are fine for their intended usage, after all, these are front mounted and will receive much less stress than a rear wheel, In that vein, I took a Jump whl. assembly, dropped a rear motor core in it and rear mounted it. No problems in this application and I weigh 250 lb.s plus.
If someone feels they need the highest strenght to weight ratio whl/ asm., perhaps for technical off-road usage, they should be looking elsewhere, as these motors are not particularly gd. for off-road applications.
Time would be better spent on how to true the whl.s, something that goes across the board for ebikes and will serve builders well in the future.
To do it right, a truing stand needs to be bought/built and used in conjunction with a quality dial gauge, usually magnet mounted.
When I started lacing ebike whl.s 10 years ago, I was hard headed and thought I could just use the "dirt-floor" method I mentioned in a previous post and payed for that in time spent getting the wheels round, often having to redo them more than once.
As to whether or not the "bent" wheel that is the subject of this discussion is serviceable, I would venture it will be fine once brought into the round. Actually hitting something at speed hard enough to bend the rim seems unlikely on an "Uber" bike. And to do that would usually result in a destroyed tire.
The way rims get to be unusable is;
The spokes get loose and the whl. gets wobbly.
Someone ham-handedly over-tightens the loose spokes to get the wheel usable without loosening all of them and starting over and this tend to warp the rim. I did this once early on and it flatted-spotted the rim to the point I had to replace it.
The real problems, at least for my application, w/ the "Jump" assemblies, are two-fold;
Both of my examples has a unpleasent metallic ringing on 52 Volts.
They have a higher speed range that I really wanted (again, on 52 Volts)
The last one is pretty subjective, some may want to use a 36 V system or may be happy with a 25 MPH ebike on 48 Volts.
My advice is jsut buy one before they are sold-out, it's not like it's a huge investment, in fact, there is no more inexpensive way to get a decent ebike.