Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

[GianlucaO]

My EM150SP lasted three days. I was driving at low speed (80kph) when I let go of the accelerator to slow down (up to 60kmh). I tried to accelerate again but it didn't respond to commands. While I was slowing down, white smoke came out of the controller and frightened, I disconnect the current from the key (deactivate the contactor) and reactivate it to see if it still works. As soon as I stop, the white smoke continues and then starts to burn the whole control unit that ignites the whole scooter (it burned everything, battery, engine, plastics and fairings and tires, only the frame remained). How could this happen? In three days that I used it, it had already happened to me that it did not respond to the throttle controls and by turning the key and reactivating it it returned to work.
I am very sorry and scared of the accident. if I had water or a fire extinguisher I would have saved everything (except the controller).
can you tell me why the whole controller burned out and not just the capacitor?

 

[Paulflieg]

Holy shit, my compassion ... Not good!

White smoke is almost always an electrolytic capacitor. Unfortunately, that's always a reason not to switch it on again.

But, why the controller burns so "terribly well" is questionable !?

Cause .... What was the starting point? Full battery? High regeneration set? Peak voltage in Page1 ...?
It can of course also be a quality problem ...

 

[GianlucaO]

In the manual he gave no information about it. I also think it was an electrolytic capacitor that made smoke, but why it burned everything I don't understand. The battery (20S 83v) was already in use from the morning, I was around 73v when the damage happened. The settings are the factory settings and checked by email from the seller two days before. I bought from him the 138 90H 4kW and em150sp set to 120A busbar set by them. The battery was also new, two charging cycles. Everything was new.

 

[rienesl]

At first @GianlucaO a deep sorry, that this happened. I had a prototype bike catching fire about 1 1/2 years ago, but thankfully we run on a battery swap system, so the battery was the first thing I ripped out of the bike and with the help of a close by restaurant, we were able to get the fire under control before it took over the bike. So there was only melted plastic body parts on the backside and minor damage to the wiring, that could get fixed easily. In our case it was a faulty DC/DC converter (that thing that provides the 12V for the bike).

Back to the topic I intended to post:
@Paulflieg: Thank you very much for your continuous support. Unfortunately this bike is a private after hour project, so I was not able to do anything on the weekend. However, I am happy to answer your questions and update the status quo:

For now, leave everything out, such as HDC, HHC, Cruise, softstart, lowbreak ...... etc! -> ok, changed that
-check the Hall config, -60 ?? right? -> it is a HUB motor, so I guess yes (never tried to change anything here)
-pole pairs 28 ?? right? assumingly. I haven't opened up the motor, but it runs on 16, 23 and 28 (default setting) only, everything else causes a short circuit and blows the fuse
-Page2, very important, how is it set NOW?
I will change the setting back to 64, as you mentioned later today.

-Port settings, important, they didn't show them yet
oups:

-Three Speed, is a switch attached? in addition the PortSettings?
yes, I have a switch, using 1 (closed contact) on the input of low speed switch (PD0/2), but 3 for sport input (PB3/18). The 1 and 2 are set to 50% and 100%, but do virtually the same. The only difference is, that on the page "Display" that small dot in the gears moves from "L" to "M" (so at least I know that the "hardware" is working correct)

What is quite surprising: I have set the ordinary current consumption to 30A and the sports more to 55A. This works like a charm (except for the 1st gear...), but for whatever reason, in sports mode the current is 60A, instead of 55A. At first I thought I did the calibration wrong, but in the ordinary gears the current is perfectly kept at 30.1A (I have a calibrated Fluke DC amp clamp here).

Conclusion of problems:
1) Acceleration jump at around 2/3 of the throttle
2) not working 1st gear
3) lower gear settings do not get applied immediately, only when the bike comes to a complete standstill (gearing up works!)
4) when holding full throttle and switching down from S to 2, the bike accelerates even more (not much)
5) When driving and keeping throttle at a fixed position, the speed gets still slowly increased for some time
6) When using the remote, the RPM is permanently alternating up and down about ±2.5% (about a 10 seconds cycle)
7) over current in sports mode
8 ) no clue about jitter and flux calculation or determination

Honestly, I don't care a lot about 5), 6) & 7) and even 1) is not that important. 3 & 4 are assumingly a bug in the firmware, so the only hope to get this fixed will be to wait if enough people complain so that this gets fixed by Votol. For 8 ) I now use the values from the manual and simply hope it will not cause any damage. So finally my last remaining issue is just 2).

Other pages not already shown above:

 

[Paulflieg]

For the values ​​in Page 2, three speed, I would take: left = 40,60,80,500,1000 and right: 0,50,20,0,6000 (from top to bottom) if I leave the lower fields blank, like you !, my vehicle drives poorly / not at all! Just a suggestion!!

 

[smotors]

earlier there was already information that it is impossible to leave blank forms.

 

[crf150rb]

Hey everyone I have an Em-150 controller with an qs 5kw mid drive motor and was wondering if there is a way to adjust the throttle curve on the controller. I would like a more linear throttle. Thanks.

 

[Paulflieg]

Hey everyone I have an Em-150 controller with an qs 5kw mid drive motor and was wondering if there is a way to adjust the throttle curve on the controller. I would like a more linear throttle. Thanks.

Hi,
This is set on Page 1

 

[Miguel Angel]

Unfortunately I still have no idea how to use the values I gathered from the calibration in Page 2. Due to I am afraid to demagnetize the magnets, I don't have the guts to ride the bike until this is set up correct. However, I used the time waiting for help for a small improvement:
My old controllers had the reverse gear and the cruise control in one button - which makes sense, due to you would never use cruise control in reverse anyway. Unfortunately the Votol does not have this setting and it does not allow to simply short circuit the two inputs; if you do it anyway, the reverse gear will always win (it seems there is a type of priority setting here in the firmware). To get around this issue, the usage pattern gives an answer: for reverse you press and hold the button as long as you reverse, for cruise control you simply press it only once shortly. So adding a capacitor and a resistor does the magic:

switch
)--------------+
               |
Input cruise   |
)--------------+
               |
              +++
              | | ≥500 Ohm
              +++
Input reverse  |
)--------------+
               |
               = 220uF
Ground         |
)--------------+

Enjoy

Hello rienesl, have you tried that connection, and does it work?

 

[GianlucaO]

Holy shit, my compassion ... Not good!

White smoke is almost always an electrolytic capacitor. Unfortunately, that's always a reason not to switch it on again.

But, why the controller burns so "terribly well" is questionable !?

Cause .... What was the starting point? Full battery? High regeneration set? Peak voltage in Page1 ...?
It can of course also be a quality problem ...

Battery around 73v/73,5v
Regeneration set from factory, i don't modify it
Set in Page1 set from factory:
>Overvoltage 85v
>Undervoltage 61v
>Softundervoltage 64v
>Undervoltage variation 1
>Busbar 120A
>Phase current 9960

Page2:
>High(%) "100"
>Flux Weakening compensation "80"
>Flux Weakening "3000" and "6000" (on High, 3gear)
>HHC Enable "NO"
>HDC Enable "YES"
>HDC Lowrst Speed "6000"
>Softstart Enable "YES", with grade"12"

Page3:
>pole pairs "5"
>motor type "V-type"
>exchange hall wire color Yellow-Blue
>exchange phase wire Blue-Green



This is my wiring diagram on the scooter:




now I will have to rebuild it (within a few months, not immediately because I really spent a lot for the electrical modification). As a motor I will always use the QS 138 90H and always 72v 20s20p 60Ah battery (real 56Ah, 20px2800mAh) with continuous 150A common port bms and 300A peak. Which controller do you recommend? Do I go back to using an EM150SP or better bet on the EM200SP or EM300 if they are more resistant and less delicate?
I think it was too much regenerating current that damaged the controller. I was about 80kmh, then I slowed down to 60 / 65kmh and I wanted to re-accelerate but it did not respond to the command, so I open and close the contactor to reset the controller but I do not solve and it keeps coming out smoke and I open the contactor by cutting the current but it continues to burn . When in the future I will have to rebuild it how can I delete the regen? or is it possible to eliminate it up to a certain voltage threshold? For example, when the battery is fully charged (about 83V) it keeps it off, then introduces it when it drops to a value that would not cause damage, for example 75v? Can such a thing be programmed on votol? Or what else can I do to get the regen only when needed?
Also, if I disable the regen, does the motor slow down always produce current or not? Doesn't it damage the controller again if it accumulates current without triggering the regen towards the battery? thank you

 

[smotors]

... the question is, can the parameter EBS ratio regulate the recuperation level?

 

[liteglow]

>HDC Enable "YES"
>HDC Lowrst Speed "6000"

Dont use this !
First make sure everything else work before you test this.
I had alot of trouble using HDC!

Second: DONT buy EM200 etc..
Even the sellers at SIA have discontinued support on the EM200.
Reason is because it`s unstable.

I would recommend you to buy ASI BAC4000\BAC8000 for the QS motor.
And get it preconfigured

 

[GianlucaO]

Dont use this !
First make sure everything else work before you test this.
I had alot of trouble using HDC!

Second: DONT buy EM200 etc..
Even the sellers at SIA have discontinued support on the EM200.
Reason is because it`s unstable.

I would recommend you to buy ASI BAC4000\BAC8000 for the QS motor.
And get it preconfigured

It was already set up like this by the seller. What does activating the HDC (and HDC Low 6000) entail?
Unfortunately the ASI controller I have just seen and it costs a lot, with customs taxes in Italy it would cost about € 620, with that amount (even less) I bought the EM150SP + QS138 90H 4kW kit
Unfortunately I cannot spend this amount on the controller alone at the moment. And as features I have not found anything and it is also Sold Out.

To avoid damage from excessive current in regen what can I do on the em150sp votol? is it also possible to disable it completely? or maybe keep it within the limit of 10A maximum? I charged my 60Ah 72v battery with the supplied 10A charger. According to the seller maximum charge at 1C and discharge continues at 2.5C and peak 5C. is too optimistic for the 18650?

 

[j bjork]

I can lock my rear wheel with my regen brake without my controller catching fire.
If you dont want regen, just dont enable it.
Or turn it down if you want less regen.
Or is there something strange with those settings too, on the newer controllers?

liteglow, when is this from?:

"Second: DONT buy EM200 etc..
Even the sellers at SIA have discontinued support on the EM200.
Reason is because it`s unstable."

From what I have heard the newer EM200 should be ok?
They dont want to sell Em300 though.

 

[HrKlev]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wont a brushless motor produce voltage by just spinning it, just like a brushed motor...? Dont know if I am reading it right, but were you still moving when you hit the switch? Disconnecting the battery while the vehicle is still running and the controller has nowhere to dump it, and bad things will happen. You can not turn that off. I dont think it is a good idea to have the possibility to disconnect the battery in speed just by turning off the ignition. I have a main switch, but it is always on. Only use it when I am working on the vehicle. It is available from the seat if things were to go really wrong in some way, but it is placed so you dont accidentally switch it off.

 

[SteveC]

I have associate that has a QS CT-22 digital programmable display along with the Votol EM-100 controller on a Huck Stinger 3000 watt bike with a 72volt 30ah battery lithium-ion battery. He has recently experienced the motor cutting out when riding in temps around 44 degrees fahrenheit.

Any thoughts on this? Could this be a BMS setting and or QS CT-22 setting low temp cut-off, or defective part.

Can someone share the following manuals
1. QS CT-22 digital programmable display
2. Votol EM-100 controller

Thank you

 

[GianlucaO]

I can lock my rear wheel with my regen brake without my controller catching fire.
If you dont want regen, just dont enable it.
Or turn it down if you want less regen.
Or is there something strange with those settings too, on the newer controllers?

liteglow, when is this from?:

"Second: DONT buy EM200 etc..
Even the sellers at SIA have discontinued support on the EM200.
Reason is because it`s unstable."

From what I have heard the newer EM200 should be ok?
They dont want to sell Em300 though.

ok, i will not buy a EM200. i think we still use an EM150SP. They also suggested an ASI BAC4000 or BAC8000 but I can't find informative material and manuals of these controllers. Before buying I would like to know how to configure them from a PC, have the wiring diagram and above all know all the functions it allows to have.
What do you suggest?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wont a brushless motor produce voltage by just spinning it, just like a brushed motor...? Dont know if I am reading it right, but were you still moving when you hit the switch? Disconnecting the battery while the vehicle is still running and the controller has nowhere to dump it, and bad things will happen. You can not turn that off. I dont think it is a good idea to have the possibility to disconnect the battery in speed just by turning off the ignition. I have a main switch, but it is always on. Only use it when I am working on the vehicle. It is available from the seat if things were to go really wrong in some way, but it is placed so you dont accidentally switch it off.

I had a 300A switch that I used as a battery disconnect switch. Then a 150A ANL fuse and a 400A contactor from which the B + cable went to the controller. From the scooter key I could disable the contactor, not the circuit breaker. I inserted an electrical diagram a few posts ago. I did this because it seemed safer to turn off the power as soon as I saw smoke coming out of the controller.





Today I disassembled the engine from the burning scooter. It turns hard in my opinion, or it's just that hard. I checked the cables and they burned, both of the three phases and of the Hall sensors. But between the three phases there are 0.6ohm and it seems normal to me. Do you know what the correct value should be? Could it still be functional? Also, could the heat from the nearby fire have damaged the magnets in the motor? How can I safely test the engine to verify that it is still working? I have a controller from another scooter but it is 48V, could I use it to connect the motor and test it with lead batteries?

 

[smotors]

...can be connected to a controller that can work without sensors and check the motor. if the fire was strong, the magnets could be damaged. But they are separated from the body by an air gap, which does not transfer heat well. It can be assumed that the magnets have not lost their quality. At least completely ...

 

[PrashanBhatta]

Hi, My connection to the motor to software was done with the help of pl2303 converter. But after connecting and doing some changes my motor doesn't work even after disconnecting the software. In the display section (controller status) I am receiving tick mark in overheating (attached picture). I tried to figure it out every possible way but it is not working!

Did you find any solutions? cause I also have the same problem.

 

[PrashanBhatta]

Did you set the temp protection acc to section 2.7 in the manual? What does this setting look like now?

I think overheat might not be an actual issue since controller status message is fault code "0001000 idle" and not overtemp. I've had this message without any issues in the driving of the controller.

Could you have changed anything else in parameters or wiring?

I do not have settings to change temperature.

 

[larsb]

I checked the cables and they burned, both of the three phases and of the Hall sensors. But between the three phases there are 0.6ohm and it seems normal to me. Do you know what the correct value should be?
600mOhm is not normal, it's about 5mOhm

Could it still be functional? No, your wiring is burned and hall PCB is probably also burned. open the cover and check.

Also, could the heat from the nearby fire have damaged the magnets in the motor?
Yes, there is a risk but it's not 100% sure, might be possible to save motor

How can I safely test the engine to verify that it is still working?
Open the covers and have a look before doing anything else. You will likely blow the controller if you test without replacing all cables, hall PCB and also verify that there are no shorts left in the wiring when you have replaced all burned parts

 

[Advait]

Hello,
Can anyone give EM-50S controller manual in English?? for parameter understanding and setup??

 

[j bjork]

It is posted earlier in this thread, but here are manuals etc:

http://www.siaecosys.com/list/?classid=102

I dont think there are the changes for the newer models, but there are some of that posted in the later few pages.

 

[rienesl]

Hello everyone.
I spend the whole day testing and trying with a EM35S. This thing was incredibly slow and weak. I found out several things, that have not been documentated here and I want to share my results:

First problem with that controller was, that the current was totally overrated. In other words, the system thought to run on 35A, but effectively it was 10A. After calibrating it to the correct value (on the extended page, altering "cur cal" while comparing the shown value of "Cuttent" on the "Display" page with the the value a physical amp meter is shown - best done with a DC(!) clamp meter on one of the battery wires while driving) it accelerated fine, but after I disconnected the computer, it was back to the same bad condition. It was mentioned before, that if you hit "param write", this is not valid for the whole changes you had made, but for the current page only. What I wasn't aware of is, that the changes of the extended page are saved only, if you are on the "Display" page.

However, the speed was still horrible slow. I finally decoded the 3 speeds section:

First of all, like written before, to enable 3speed, you need to enable HDC. But different that someone else wrote here, you must not enter a random, high value in "HDC lowrst speed". To determine the correct value, first disable HDC and get your motor to full throttle in sports mode on the "display" page. The shown RPM is the value you need to put into that field, because then the 3 left values of the 3 gears are simply the percentage of the maximum possible RPM

The right field of low gear limits the current of the controller in % and rounds up and down to full A.
Note 1: this setting is valid for ALL gear modes, except Sport!
Note 2:The value is depending on the specified controller current and is not related in any way to the value of Busbar current on page 1

The right field of mid seems to have no function at all - at least for me I can set it to any value between 0 and 100 and I don't see a difference (yet!)

The right field of high is a bit blurry. It seems to have an effect on the maximum possible RPM - if not limited by HDC anyway. 0 is lowest, 100 is fastest.
Important: it needs ignition on and off to take effect!!

 

[rienesl]

My old controllers had the reverse gear and the cruise control in one button - which makes sense, due to you would never use cruise control in reverse anyway. Unfortunately the Votol does not have this setting and it does not allow to simply short circuit the two inputs; if you do it anyway, the reverse gear will always win (it seems there is a type of priority setting here in the firmware). To get around this issue, the usage pattern gives an answer: for reverse you press and hold the button as long as you reverse, for cruise control you simply press it only once shortly. So adding a capacitor and a resistor does the magic:

switch
)--------------+
               |
Input cruise   |
)--------------+
               |
              +++
              | | ≥500 Ohm
              +++
Input reverse  |
)--------------+
               |
               = 220uF
Ground         |
)--------------+

Enjoy

Hello rienesl, have you tried that connection, and does it work?

Sorry, I missed your post. Yes, I am using this on a EM-35S and a EM-50S. On both it works like a charm. As I mentioned before, I am used to this behavior from other (non programmable) controllers and wanted to have this functionality back and not use 2 separate buttons. Have a look on my screenshots to get the correct settings for the ports. For the resistor a 560Ohm has been working best for MY needs, but this is something you can easily play around with (I wouldn't recommend <500 Ohm, due to this gets a very short press for cruise control and > 1kOhm, due to this makes reverse need a very long press and gets inconvenient when moving the bike)