What's wrong with this bike?

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Could someone pleez educate my unsophisticated pallete as to why this kids bike is considered a 'visual offence'?
And how it's 'a world of difference' (only in style or visually speaking) from other moto-cross inspired bikes like the Blade or some of the conversions found on this forum?

It's not something that gives me a stiffie that I gots to have it, nor would I turn my nose up at it if it were given to me.
But whenever something elicits that sort of response, I know nothing could possibly be that horrible.
So I'd appreciate very much if anyone could fill me in on what I'm not seeing.

 

[xyster]

Could someone pleez educate my unsophisticated pallete as to why this kids bike is considered a 'visual offence'?

People who feel that way are probably reacting to the incongruence of a child's bike looking like an adult racing bike, and drawing a parallel with recent public safety issues such as kid's water pistols produced to look like adult firearms.

 

[Malcolm]

As a bit of a design junkie I'd say it's because it's something pretending to be something else, and compounding the crime by doing a very poor job at the pretense. There's no vision, no integrity, no continuity. It's as if someone has leafed through a series of photos of bikes, taken a bit of this, a bit of that, and slapped it all together in Photoshop. Form shouldn't always follow function, but it's pretty obvious when neither relates to the other.

 

[Geebee]

You can buy a very similar bike with dual suspension and dual disc brakes for $100 au. at Kmart in OZ.
It would make a good starting point for a non pedal electric especially off road, if you dont like the plastic bits they can be removed.
I don't mind them but I tend to look at potential for hacking anyway.

 

[TylerDurden]

I'll submit that the proportions are a bit flocked-up. It's a toy, after all.

Compared to a pocketbike:
the plastic elements should be bigger
the handlebars are too high
the fairing should cover more of the frame

 

[safe]

I think if they put some really good tires (street road racing slicks) onto the bike and made the aerodynamics a little better it would be a pretty nice little bike. Obviously it's intended to look like a "road racer" but they just cut too many corners to make it of much use.

I like the idea... 8)

The problem is the wheelbase... since they are using a stock frame the pedals are too close to the front and so they can't really build a fairing for the front without running into foot clearance problems.

 

[TylerDurden]

C'mon people... this thing ships with training-wheels.
It's for a kindergardener.

 

[xyster]

I like the mag wheels -- no stupid spokes!

 

[v_tach]

I'd have been pretty jacked to have it back when I was a kid.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

C'mon people... this thing ships with training-wheels.
It's for a kindergardener.

THAT is precisely what I can't wrap my brain around.
Why should a grown-up type person have a problem with a kids toy?
Toys are always only facsimilies of the real thing.

Geebee, you're correct, there's also the same bike for older kids with 20 inch spoked wheels (no mags unfortunately) & a soft-tail which is the what I'd rather have posted. For some reason they (Canadian Tire) used this identical picture of the kiddy version for both.

v_tach, you pulled the words right out of my mouth when I first saw it, trying to place myself in a 12 year-olds head space.
I have a nephew & perhaps for even a niece that's a little spitfire that I believed would get a kick out of it. Maybe even put an old 12V friction drive on it at some point to get them hooked. But if a 12 year-old would be embarassed to be seen on it, I don't want to toss away money on something that wouldn't get any play value out of it.

Then the more I thought about different packaging configurations for the motor & battery, the more it appealed to me & thought heck if they don't like it, maybe I'll just keep it for myself.

Previously with this type of bike I could take it or leave it but it's grown on me & as safe said, I like the idea. So thanx for the suggestions on how you'd improve on it, it's not out of place in this thread. Some added length does make the proportion less squarish looking. Even with the larger version it's iffy if it will hold up under my weight plus batteries, but it's cheap to try & build up a crotch rocket from there. Oh yeah, also 20 inches wheels makes it sidewalk legal here.

 

[Malcolm]

As a 12-year-old I would have loved it too. I also thought the Sinclair C5 was cool when it came out. I don't know what the average age is here, but I'd guess it's somewhere around 40, so we tend to be a little less enthusiastic than we were

 

[TylerDurden]

• 20" dirt bike with 6 speeds
• Designed to look like a motocross bike
• Dual disc brakes
• Weight limit: 250 lbs.
• For ages 7 yrs. and up; assembly required

$209.00 USD

 

[safe]

My first thought (way back last summer before I started the #001 bike) was to buy one of these and modify it. Once I realized that for the #001 bike I needed 86 lbs of batteries to make it worth owning I dropped this idea and went for the custom frame that I did. However, if you used LiFePO4 cells on something like this then it starts to look pretty good.

A True story...

I actually bought a 20" suspension, dual disc bike from Toys R Us first and rode it around a little and then took it back and traded up to get the 24" bikes that I'm now using as my base materials. (I was that close to making the bike be a 20" wheel machine)

So I seriously started here in the beginning. 20" is too small for adults and 50 mph speeds...

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

• 20" dirt bike with 6 speeds
• Designed to look like a motocross bike
• Dual disc brakes
• Weight limit: 250 lbs.
• For ages 7 yrs. and up; assembly required

Yes, like that one.
Same undercarriage except with the identical red superstructure of the kiddy.
So as far as aesthetics go between the two, is this one any more visually appealing & less derivative? Is it the little make-believe gas-tank & fairing that sticks out front what's excessive?
In my mental filing system all of this style gets lumped into the same box, so I don't yet appreciate the subtle distinctions.


I must say Safe, if this was something you intended on doing, perhaps I ought reconsider. I feel a little uncomfortable agreeing with you. :lol:
Naw, just needlin ya. Thanx for the validation that the idea isn't totally gonzo. I thought this would make a good drawing card, if one kid sees another one zipping along under power they'll want one too. I didn't want the looks to work against that & thought they would find it cool, but maybe I'm just too old.

Even if I do end up with it, speed isn't a factor as I was thinking less than the legal limit anyway. Don't scooters go that fast on even smaller wheels? Weight & packaging are the more immediate hurdles. The small wheels & frame are good for keeping your feet close to the ground for use as outriggers when going over ice & snow & it's not as far to fall.

 

[Ypedal]

I have seriously looked at them, took one out of the rack at wallmart and put it back... :wink:

The bike itself: front forks not strong enough for a motor, rear dropouts would be OK, but the suspension will bounce like a slinky as it's made for a 50 - 80 lbs kid...

Brakes, yes disk, but CHEAP, would likely wear out or self-destruct within a short period of time ( well.. mabe not for everyone.. but the way i ride.. no way. )

Mounting batteries to this frame securely would not be fun either....

Basically.. if you are after the cheapest frame you can find, ok... if you want to make a reliable and comfortable bike to ride.. NO..

 

[TylerDurden]

So as far as aesthetics go between the two, is this one any more visually appealing & less derivative?

Yeah.

The tykes bike's shape is much further from streetbike, than the juvie bike's is from moto-x.

The tykebike would look much better just with smaller, lower handlebars, but little kids could have problems with that. As it is, the front fairing looks like a sore thumb because it is so far from the handlebars.

:?

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

In general I prefer angular lines to bulges anyway & the clean top edge of the X-Games for a superfluous plastic bit actually does add something to it's looks. Took another look & Canadian Tire also has the X model in the two kids sizes but interestingly it's 50 bucks cheaper than the red Hyper model, I wonder why. Cost of the extra plastic I guess.

Funny what you said about the fairing sticking out like a sore thumb.
I tried a basket on the handlebars but took them off cuz it felt really girly (sorry, don't mean to offend anyone, it's just me). I came up with the idea of taking a wire basket but morphing it into a teardrop/bullet-nose shape. Cover the wire frame with something like R/C heat shrink film or even fiberglass to camo that it's a basket by making it look like a partial fairing & also functions as a mudguard. The whole thing would probably look a lot like the nose of the Hyper-bike. If what you're saying holds true then I would end up looking like a dork; moreso. Well at least it's better than girly.

 

[xyster]

I tried a basket on the handlebars but took them off cuz it felt really girly (sorry, don't mean to offend anyone, it's just me).

But Girlie is also Stealthy -- less likely to attract unwanted attention. I put a nice, girlie basket on the front of my Currie partly for that reason, partly to hold stuff.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

No, girly, not Girlie ! :?


Thanx Y for the bulletpoints on the weak spots.
It'll help to figure out the true cost after correcting them.
When the whole bike costs less than most forks somethings got to give, so those just come with the price.
Looking over each of your points, I think I can live with them or work thru them, so it doesn't sound too bad.

Forks can be replaced, although in this size I'll need to check what's available.
Springs can always be made stiffer. Heck, do like beast775 & replace the spring with a length of pipe! :lol:
Disks should have an easy life with an ebrake system, or else also upgrade to something better when they wear out.
Battery mounting I agree need to innovate something. Like I said, the packaging & weight are tight constraints. There's always the rucksack.

Riding a bike thru the snow chews up a bike in two winters anyway so something cheap is appropriate. I drove my good bike maybe dozen times this past winter & even that took it's toll which I now regret doing.
Thanx for the heads up that I now have clearer picture of what I'm dealing with.

 

[safe]

The New Honda... :wink:

 

[Miles]

1948 Ducati...... :wink:

http://tinyurl.com/38lvhu

 

[Malcolm]

1948 Ducati

Now that is a beautiful bike!!!
Turbo, if you want advice on aesthetics you just have to ask an Italian.

(did they have zip ties in 1948 though?)

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

That much I knew already.
My car bears a small 'Styled by Giugiaro' plaque.
The perfect car would have a British chassis with a German engine wrapped in an Italian body.
The McLaren F1 comes closest. Even tho Peter Stevens is British there's an Italian influence to his designs.
Not many Italian styled bicycles to choose from unfortunately.

 

[Miles]

1948 Ducati

Now that is a beautiful bike!!!
Turbo, if you want advice on aesthetics you just have to ask an Italian.

Nice

 

[safe]

I actually the saw the bike in question at WalMart today.

It's a tiny little bike and it's simply "cute".

You can't take it too seriously... :?