Spooky tooth death race 2010

[dogman dan]

Fariracing 31 has his helmet cam vids up. On spookys site they are on the links at the right, on the bottom of the page. Not so obvious to find on the page.

I feel better about being passed like a fencepost by him, he does it to everybody. He's claiming to be sub 50 mph, but on the longer straights, I wonder... he only takes a poor line through a corner one time that I saw in all twelve laps. Not counting the going around obstacles that seem to be standing still. 4 guys were really fast, and one of them crashed in the main. One in light blue leathers, and the other in the blue BMX outfit. Beating any of those 4 will be hard, but just like I was getting beat on the straights, better acceleration on the straights is really fairracing 31's advantage. You can see it when he starts to lap folks.

 

[vanilla ice]

There will be somebody with a 125cc motocross water cooled motor strapped to a bike next year I bet.

Why stop there...

 

[dogman dan]

Was reading last night on the motorized bike forum, apparenlty most of the bikes are still only about 70-80 cc's. Except the whizzer. That bike is beautifull, but he crashed it in the last corner in lap one of the main. Hope it's not bent permanent. Guy riding was older looking than me.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Damn that looks like fun. I want to try to go next year.

 

[dogman dan]

My place is on the way, for an overnight. They may run one halloween? They did last year. A smaller field would help a bit, allowing everybody into the main.

 

[shinyballs]

Very impressive race riding skills Dogman!

I was in Phoenix last spring but haven't heard about this race before... Rode the longest bike lane ever(about 10 miles) along a road - starting from downtown Phoenix to Lake Tempe and further down AZ State U.
Sometimes skipping the bike lane and speeding at > 35mph. Some cops noticed the "Beast E" but are too lazy to do anything... or am I just lucky? Riding in the desert is surely different. Have to deal with high winds, sand, mucho thorns...

Next years race will be my Must Do trip next year.

 

[amberwolf]

Just remember, you're only "speeding" on a bike if you are operating the assist motor >20MPH. If you are only pedalling you can go as fast as the posted speed limit of the road.

Now, some cops will still stop you and warn you for going say, 45MPH on a pedal-only bicycle, because they feel it is dangerous, so that is up to the individual cop. Can't say if they're legally in the right or not, but it has happened to a couple of people I've known over the years. One was drafting a little ways behind a semi, and the other was riding down North Mountain on Cave Creek Road (which is scary as hell to ride a regular upright bike down at 40+MPH, I'll tell ya). I've never dealt with that.

But in Tempe and Scottsdale, and some places in Ahwatukee, I'd say you're more likely to be pestered by the cops about anything bike-related than anywhere else in the valley, except Phoenix. In Phoenix, half of them have zero clue about what is and is not legal for bikes, and some even like to play games with cyclists by having one car tell them to ride on the sidewalk and the next tell them to get off the sidewalk and onto the road, then the two cars alternate all the way down the road to piss off the cyclist. Been a long while since that happened to me, but it is not pleasant.

Usually they just tell you to get off the road, then when you ask them why they want you to endanger pedestrians, yourself, and vehicles pulling out of various places, rather than sharing the road as the law states and ADOT recommends, showing them the printout off the ADOT site, they just tell you "there's lots of drunks out right now so it would be safer for you".

Overall, though, most of them are nice, know the laws or are interested in finding out about them when you show them the printouts, and realize you're just another piece of traffic on the roads, as long as you are obeying all the traffic rules and riding safely.

Most don't even bring up anything about how powerful a motor might be on the bike, or how fast it *can* go. I think the only one that seemed even a little suspicious about my motor was totally unimpressed when I pointed out that it's a motor off a wheelchair.

 

[tritonwow]

Alright, I spent a few hours getting the whole main event loaded up to the world. It's in three parts and from the Dogman perspective (helmet cam). I'll get to more video next weekend when I have more time.

First third:
[youtube]QKnjDHSGGy4[/youtube]

Middle third:
[youtube]KbS6A8g9CV8[/youtube]

Last third:
[youtube]BbIV-2bAEmE[/youtube]

Triton

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks a lot, I know that took some valuable time.

I was dying to see the whole race, just to figure out who lapped me, and who had a problem and then caught me again. Looks like about 10 of em actually lapped me. Even the top ten will be difficult to do next year.

Another guy had a bike that sounded crappy, and we traded places a few times, and then he took me in the end I think. At first I thought he lapped me several times and was leading. Hard to keep track of it all at the moment. During the race, I thought, crap!, lapped already?

Forget first, fairracing 31 lapped me twice. But it did take a while for the first 6 or so to lap me. I actually lapped one guy. So for sure I wasn't dead last, but maybe next after that? I thought I had about 4 guys passed, but mostly it was just the guy with the carb problem.

Seeing the race in full really helps me figure out where I can improve my line. The one corner where my line realy sucked was quite bumpy, so I was trying to find a faster line outside of the bumps, but watching the other riders shows it wasn't so bumpy tight inside. When I tried that line in practice it seemed slow, but that was because I wasn't used to the track yet I think.

 

[tailwind]

Thanks for the vids. It looks like great fun.

To get an idea of the speed difference I noted the lap times from fairracing31 and your laps.

His laps were 90, 88, 87, 85, 86, 87 secs.

Your vid2 times are between 101 -104 secs and vid3 times are 90 - 93 secs.
I dont believe the vid3 times. I think the framerate got screwed up.

Another way to work out the speed difference was to note when he passed you.
He passed you just after 6 laps completed while you had done 5 laps.
This gives an average speed difference of 20%.

So a lap time of 86 secs + 20% = 103 secs , which is what you get in vid2.

To race at the front you will need on average 20% more speed.
Thats 5 - 10% in the tight corners and 25% on the straits.

Greg

 

[dogman dan]

Yep, I was going 30 mph, add 25% to 40 mph and I could be competitive I think. Hopefully 72v will do the trick, along with some big holes in the covers. We'll see though, the battery is going to start to weigh a lot.

Not flying off the track like some of the faster guys did will still be the key. I make it look easy at 30, but at 40? Either way it will be a blast next time. I know I have the cornering skills still. That was my main worry, that I'd chicken and only go 25 mph in all the corners. The tight hairpin everybody brakes pretty slow for, but the big sweeper before the pits tricks you into taking it too fast, and quite a few went off track there. The one corner people passed me much on, I was giving them if i knew they were fast.



You could tell though, that Fairracing was cruising it out the last few laps. To beat him is going to take at least 50 mph I think. He claims to be going less than 50, but I do also suspect there is just a bit more there if he wants it.

 

[Arlo1]

Yup I need to be in on this!

 

[Thud]

Tritonwow, thanks for the video's, good stuff.
Looks like my original 1.5 min lap times estimates were close. Just didn't figure for the Franco Morini motor factor. :lol:
I Like fairracing31's bike more each time I look at it. Seems a bit of a waste to be on pavemant though....all that suspension crys out for some gravity challenging terrain to test it fullly.

I don't know how many here follow the other forums about bikes in general. Safe & I have had an exchange or 2 regarding the future of powered bike racing. I jumped in on page 12 after a few guys said racing was essentialy stupid & would only get the law on our backs.

I wonder how many here feel te same way?
http://motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=26152&page=12
food for thought.

 

[AussieJester]

I don't know how many here follow the other forums about bikes in general. Safe & I have had an exchange or 2 regarding the future of powered bike racing. I jumped in on page 12 after a few guys said racing was essentialy stupid & would only get the law on our backs.
.

rofl...I think the thing that i will find more interesting is how long your can
remain friendly with Safe , Thudmiester hahaha... I particularly like the part where
he made the comment about people laughing at those trying to look like motorcycles
LOOK AT HIS BIKE!!!! bwahaha I can't see e-bicycle racing ever taking off
but it doesn't have to for a group of enthusiast to get together and race their bikes does it?
Safes been 'at this' for years he says, and look how far it's progressed, he talks alot
but does very little and takes forever to do that. He's entitled to his opinions
though, and the past years have shown how many others have bought into his
ideas....none. Safes going to have a coronary when Hals 12kw outrunners
start appearing on bicycles hehehe Dare you to put 2 on a bike Thud

Take your bike to the Death Race Thud and kick Safes ass, lap the old fool :lol:

KiM

 

[geekybiker]

I don't know how many here follow the other forums about bikes in general. Safe & I have had an exchange or 2 regarding the future of powered bike racing. I jumped in on page 12 after a few guys said racing was essentialy stupid & would only get the law on our backs.

I wonder how many here feel te same way?
http://motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=26152&page=12
food for thought.

I don't get it. Let racers run non-street legal bikes. Part of the reason to race is push limits and better the breed through competition. People pushing stuff and burning things up is what is going to make reliable, well handling machines for the rest of us. There is a place for spec and street legal classes. I just think that is in the future once the scene has expanded a bit.

 

[Thud]

WOW you guys get it & don't make page long posts ot see the issues. Thank you, you have restored my faith in internet comunucations! :lol:

 

[AussieJester]

WOW you guys get it & don't make page long posts ot see the issues. Thank you, you have restored my faith in internet comunucations! :lol:

Yup we do...Safe hasn't a clue LoL... Safe thinks he is only using in the vicinity of 1500watts
to hit his max speed of 58 or 59mph (no seriously Thudmiester... he does its in his rewind thread on MBC)

So i guess he figures a 1000watt motor is a heap for fun times on a go kart track...

can just see the spectators bursting with excitement already, the atmosphere is electrifying! ...click

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

Heh heh, good ol Safe.... Why the hell would you want to limit horsepower on a track? Sure, maybe some day there will be enough 1000 watt ebikes on that track to create some racing classes that do limit watts, or battery voltages or something. Just so people can bring a commuter bike and race guys with similar bikes. But to have nothing but 1000 watt bikes allowed? Every kind of motor racing eventually has a do anything you want class.

It will be a long long time before anybody at the Death race will be interested in checking every dang bike in the race for a rules compliance. They pretty much count heads at the start line, and go, well 70 of ya, I guess we'll be doing three heats instead of two. Very laid back. Any kind of 1000 watt ebike race will be something the ebikers get together themselves on, and would have to provide their own finish line judge for. Could easily be done in one of the heat races if enough guys, like 3 or 4, with 48v bikes show up.

I'd like to see ES put up some E bike prize money next year. So we'd have our own electric race happening within the main event to encourage more E bikes to show up. No limits for sure!

 

[johnrobholmes]

I'm planning to attend next year, so I will be building up a bike just for the race. I will start a build thread once I get the frame started. The track type will limit the usable power, but I plan on building something that will top out around the mid to upper 40s. Sure I could bring a bunch of 1hp controllers in case people were interested, but would there be enough time (or interest) to race em? I ride my 1hp bike in my basement, it is about the only place tight enough to give any thrills. Nothing like running into the couch at 15mph :lol:

I have been talking with some of the guys that race classic mopeds, and they would likely allow ebikes in the races too. They have stock, open 50cc and open mod classes already. They also race on gokart type tracks. Maybe another avenue to get some practice and fun.

 

[AussieJester]

I'm planning to attend next year, so I will be building up a bike just for the race. I will start a build thread once I get the frame started. The track type will limit the usable power, but I plan on building something that will top out around the mid to upper 40s. Sure I could bring a bunch of 1hp controllers in case people were interested, but would there be enough time (or interest) to race em? I ride my 1hp bike in my basement, it is about the only place tight enough to give any thrills. Nothing like running into the couch at 15mph :lol:

It better be a full custom frame built by you with your fan dangled bender and welder I wouldnt worry about bringing a 1000watt controller
the space that takes up is better used for packing extra lipos honestly...who the hell will want to race around a track with a 1000watt bike
thats ridiculous.


Safe needs to actually ride a bike that is limited to 1000watt or he will never get why nobody will be interested, he "thinks" he is now
i guess this is why he believes that 1000watt is fun coz he can do near 60mph with his... If the cheap ass bought a monitor to see the
input power he could actually accurately workout what his true output power is, guaranteed its a damn site higher than his little
graphs show it to be...either that or MotoGP teams should be contacting him for pointers on aerodynamics and fairing construction...

KiM

EDIT: bwahahaha... i checked on MBC this morning i seez you and YPedal man are tag teaming poor old Safe, you mean pricks
there goes your chance to split juice money with Safe on the road trip down

 

[Zoot Katz]

. . .
I'd like to see ES put up some E bike prize money next year. So we'd have our own electric race happening within the main event to encourage more E bikes to show up. No limits for sure!

I think it wouldn't too be difficult persuading some of the vendors to put up merchandise prizes.
Jason and Justin are already giving away stuff every month.
Maybe ES could kick in to rent a big ass generator so everybody can plug in their chargers.
Anything extra could be spent on podium girls, champagne and bouquets or event tee-shirts.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Holmes Bikes would give away some 1hp controllers. My only stipulation is that they are used on 16" tire kids bikes :lol:

 

[amberwolf]

What if I build a longtail recumbent racer out of select pieces of 16" kids bikes? :lol: But it'll need at least two or three controllers to run the motors.

 

[dogman dan]

Perhaps the best prize ES could put up would be lipos. Mabye get enough cash scraped up to buy a set of 8 6s 5ah blocks. Somebody fast gets to run them in the race, and the winner keeps em. Or the winner keeps 4, and the other 4 split between 2nd and 3rd. Maybe decide who runs the pack in the race in one of the heat races. Mabye just make it a lottery, and pick numbers out of a hat for the prize rather than race for it. Really, just incentive to show up would be cool. Must be there, and entered in the race electric to win.

 

[Lock]

Just thinking about STDR 2011 when I read these analyses about the recent 2010 TTGPx...

Re: [EVDL] TTGPx impressions.
Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:48 PM
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <mor ganl@gm ail.co m>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lis ts.s jsu. edu>
More like a Ford Mustang vs. a Lotus Elise. One was more powerful, the other more maneuverable.

Yellow Lightning was more powerful and pulled ahead on the straights, but Zero Agni made up the difference in the corners.

I'm not sure whether Zero Agni weighed less, had a better weight distribution and suspension, or just a more experienced driver (or a combination of the above), but it used the brakes less and kept more speed through the corners, and that made all the difference.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Lawrence Rhodes <primob assoon@sbc global.ne t> wrote:
> The Zero Agni bike I think was driven better but the Yellow Lightening Bike at times made the Agni bike stand still and vice versa. Could someone more
> versed in Moto racing please comment and explain how this back and forth close racing was possible? It almost seemed setup. The speed differentials
> almost made is seem like one racer was in a VW bus and the other in a Porsche. Lawrence Rhodes...