Brushless motor controller with reverse

Wait when you said you cooked one pair of wheels because the unit wasn't operating fast enough and power supply was too much, then what wheel / type of hub motor did you switch to then? One still strong enough for operation, but at lower speed. Is there a name for the type of wheel you switched to for that particular project?
It wasnt a pair of wheels; I tried but can't see how you can get that out of what I wrote:
"In a bit more than a decade, I've only cooked two motors, of two different kinds in different projects. One of them was because it was meant to supply the power it was rated for at a much faster speed than I was running it at (which is the likely situation your project would be in with the motor wheels you've linked so far)." :?


The motor I cooked because of the winding vs speed vs load issue was a small Unite brushed motor out of some crappy scooter I probably got at goodwill, chain driving the rear 26" wheel of a regular bicycle. It had been designed to run a much smaller scooter wheel, perhaps 8", so using the same gear ratio and voltage driving a wheel over three times as large meant it was trying to spin at it's original speed, but was spinning instead only about 1/3 (or less) as fast at the same load. This meant the current flowing thru it was at least three times higher than it's designed for at that load because there wasnt' enough BEMF (you'll learn about that term when reading up on how motor windings work to get specific speeds, etc) to counter the incoming current (which there would have been if the motor had been wound for hte speed I was using it at under that load).

That project was abandoned and I went with a friction drive (which was still built wrong the same way but I used two motors and they coincidentally were bigger and more able to take it, but the mechanical design caused the motor shafts to snap from flexing stresses; the motors were radiator fan motors out of some car in a junkyard). So this one never had a chance to burn out.

Those were some of the very first things I tried to do with motors, and I knew probably less than you do at that point about motors, though I did know electronics fairly well already. I had no idea then why it failed, only that it did--it was years before I understood the failure. I looked around the internet and began reading up on this stuff, starting at the old V is for Voltage forums that got wiped out years ago and restarted, and then here on ES, where I've been learning ever since. If you want more details on the various experiments I've done you can read up on them at my old The Electricle™ : Bicycle Electric-Motor-Assist Project site (though I think google bought them and nuked all the pictures) and here on ES in my various threads https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/search/132343/ .

Then I built a frame to use powerchair motors chain driving the regular bike drivetrain, and those *were* matched to the speed / voltage / load, and other than (many) mechanical chain derailment issues from frame flex due to excessive torque loading, it worked fine.

After that I went to hubmotors in the wheels themselves, more or less wound for the speeds I was using them at, and have stuck with that ever since because it's easier to build, though has a lot of other issues it introduces that I wont go into here because they dont' apply to your usage (you can read up on the many hubmotor vs middrive posts and threads for those if you like).
 
The key to making a slow moving power cart will be to get the right gear ratio. It needs to be geared so that the top speed unloaded is only slightly faster than you want to go. I have seen motor setups that are designed for this kind of application.

Here's one example, but not sure I would recommend it. It uses brushed motors, which will wear out quickly. But it has a chain drive that you could change the gearing on by getting larger sprockets:
cart wheel set
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Here's another style that has the complete axle with a differential so a single motor will work. Downside is the gearing can't be changed easily
cart axle
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I found these by searching for "electric cart axle".
 
Awesome fechter never would have found this out thanks. What do you think of these for low speed high torque wheel,
Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out! $55.30 21%OFF | 5 inch wheel hub motor, 24v-36v, 200w, 350w, carbon fiber, light truck motor double shaft/single shaft hub motor
 
The ad for the small hub motor wheel doesn't have enough information to know if it would be useful. My guess is it's geared too fast (or maybe even direct drive) so won't have enough torque. You want something with a top speed around 10mph.

Search for "electric axle" and look at those. There are chinese electric tractors that resemble a roto-tiller made for low speed/high torque.

Also beware a lot of items on Ali Express have wildly exaggerated specifications and/or poor quality.
 
Maybe you could use a pair of controllers wired to work in in opposite directions, and send an e-brake cutoff signal to the one you don't want working at any given moment. As long as they can start up without a ramp interval, that would probably do what you want.
 
The wheelbarrow motor is great. I've never seen that one before. You could use two of them and have tank steering.
 
The ad for the small hub motor wheel doesn't have enough information to know if it would be useful. My guess is it's geared too fast (or maybe even direct drive) so won't have enough torque. You want something with a top speed around 10mph.

Search for "electric axle" and look at those. There are chinese electric tractors that resemble a roto-tiller made for low speed/high torque.

Also beware a lot of items on Ali Express have wildly exaggerated specifications and/or poor quality.
Thanks for heads up on Ali express. Why is there a problem if my hub motors are direct drive I wanted direct drive brushless gearless setup because I can wire reverse function, the gearless brushless can be wired so it goes both ways. Aren't some of the direct drive gearless brushless hub motors low speed high torque? Or the site is lying?
 
Btw thanks too everyone helping me try to figure this project out you are all very helpful. I just have to face finding a system that works, and isn't super expensive. Funds are my issue
 
Thanks for heads up on Ali express. Why is there a problem if my hub motors are direct drive I wanted direct drive brushless gearless setup because I can wire reverse function, the gearless brushless can be wired so it goes both ways. Aren't some of the direct drive gearless brushless hub motors low speed high torque? Or the site is lying?
Are you saying direct drive hub motors which can be wired for forward and reverse with the right speed controller, are you saying low speed high torque don't exist? Or just have to find the right one? See I love the wheel barrow kit, but here's my dilemma, I'm in a hospital, everything is flat floor, except for 2 areas with 5° - 9° degree incline/decline, (which is where I need the torque guessing.. and I have to use a cart like this. Trying to keep the height, using similar hub motor caster or whatever now you all recommend now, no taller than 5 to 6.5 inches or else I can't get through doorways, with lots of item, height wise, and width wise, I like the axle idea but I can't have wheels cone off the sides either or u can make it through the doorway. I know this is a challenge, but I feel like there's some example.. or caster type hub motor that would pop on perfectly to this cart, for this project. So that's the full scope, here is the cart I'm mounting to, 1689255502569.png Trying to do all this under 300-400 $ please additional thoughts if anyone has.
 
Another question, I was Going to use a 36v system off the bat at the start. More articles I read, it seems Like 36v system could have all the extra (ah) In the world, but that won't do squat for getting g up a slight 5 to 10 degree grade where as a low (ah) 48v system even with low (ah), cud get up a 10 degree incline no problem. Thoughts? Which subsystem is better to have in case of moving heavy weight up slight inclines? Or both 36v and 48v will work?
 
Another question, I was Going to use a 36v system off the bat at the start. More articles I read, it seems Like 36v system could have all the extra (ah) In the world, but that won't do squat for getting g up a slight 5 to 10 degree grade where as a low (ah) 48v system even with low (ah), cud get up a 10 degree incline no problem. Thoughts? Which subsystem is better to have in case of moving heavy weight up slight inclines? Or both 36v and 48v will work?
To get equal climbing and acceleration from a lower voltage system, you have to have higher current from the battery and controller. In this case, because a "48V" 13S system has 30% more voltage than a "36V" 10S system, using a controller that delivers 30% higher current (amps), along with a battery that can support that much more current, should keep initial acceleration and low speed climbing pretty much equal to the higher voltage system. It will have a lower top speed, though (not 30% lower though, because of the exponential relationship between speed and power).
 
That cart is smaller than I was thinking. Maybe search for "Electric wheelchair motor". There are some that look like they might work. Some come with controllers that have reverse already.

A direct drive motor is not going to make it up a 9 deg slope with any kind of weight.
 
This is why I keep trying to get you to use the simulators, calculators, etc, because you know your conditions, etc., but you dont' know how motors/etc work, and the simulator would help you understand that, and see why the things you keep wanting to try are unlikely to do the job you want them to do, and help you figure out the kind of things that would do the job you need them to.

In a previous post I included a link to a google search for motor systems intended to run carts like this. Which one will do what you want, if any, you would have to check *after* you determine what it will actually take to do the job you need it to do.

I can't tell you what that is going to be, but I can guess that it will need to be "geared down" either electrically or physically, and probably need significant power to go up the slopes you have with hundreds of pounds of load on it. (even if it only needs that power for a few seconds to go up a ramp...it still has to be able to do it).
 
That cart is smaller than I was thinking. Maybe search for "Electric wheelchair motor". There are some that look like they might work. Some come with controllers that have reverse already.

A direct drive motor is not going to make it up a 9 deg slope with any kind o

That cart is smaller than I was thinking. Maybe search for "Electric wheelchair motor". There are some that look like they might work. Some come with controllers that have reverse already.

A direct drive motor is not going to make it up a 9 deg slope with any kind of weight.
Yea I mean 55inch length isn't that small, this cart can carry up to 500 pounds. Got it I hear you, but are the caster hub motors or all of them that say " low speed/ high torque" description on them are fake or scam? And I was reading, direct drive hub casters can make weight go up hills/ slight grades, etc , it's saying it just takes more power. Is this true false, partly true depending? I now know the 36v skateboard wheels won't work because they move weight, but only at higher speeds, and in general operate at higher speed so no issues,, but how can all the hub casters be the same..
 
That cart is smaller than I was thinking. Maybe search for "Electric wheelchair motor". There are some that look like they might work. Some come with controllers that have reverse already.

A direct drive motor is not going to make it up a 9 deg slope with any kind of weight.
Also really like the Electric wheelchair caster idea
 
This is why I keep trying to get you to use the simulators, calculators, etc, because you know your conditions, etc., but you dont' know how motors/etc work, and the simulator would help you understand that, and see why the things you keep wanting to try are unlikely to do the job you want them to do, and help you figure out the kind of things that would do the job you need them to.

In a previous post I included a link to a google search for motor systems intended to run carts like this. Which one will do what you want, if any, you would have to check *after* you determine what it will actually take to do the job you need it to do.

I can't tell you what that is going to be, but I can guess that it will need to be "geared down" either electrically or physically, and probably need significant power to go up the slopes you have with hundreds of pounds of load on it. (even if it only needs that power for a few seconds to go up a ramp...it still has to be able to do it).
Definitely I hear you wolf. Dam I didn't catch which link that was in your older post , which is it, "the Electricle"?
 
To get equal climbing and acceleration from a lower voltage system, you have to have higher current from the battery and controller. In this case, because a "48V" 13S system has 30% more voltage than a "36V" 10S system, using a controller that delivers 30% higher current (amps), along with a battery that can support that much more current, should keep initial acceleration and low speed climbing pretty much equal to the higher voltage system. It will have a lower top speed, though (not 30% lower though, because of the exponential relationship between speed and power).
Interesting so are you saying a 36v 800watt controller with 36v 800watt hub motor wheel can get up a small hill or closer to, than a 36v 350watt controller with 36v 350watt hub motor wheel? Also follow up, I just read if you use a controller that's a little higher wattage than your wheel hub motor, example like 36v 500 watt controller with a 36v 350 watt hub wheel motor, it's Ok because no extra current will be forced into the system. Please true false?
 
With enough power, a direct drive hub motor might go up the hill, but it will overheat very quickly and likely burn out.

Another idea:
Search you local Craigslist for a used "mobility scooter". These are similar to wheel chairs but you can probably find one that's very inexpensive.
 
This kit looks interesting…

S15df26a440be47bbb144d90b2dd77656k.jpg


as seen here…

Dual Drive 5 Inch Solid Tire Supermarkets Moving Delivery Carry Cargo Cart Trolley Gear Hub Motor Kit

Low speed, high torque, 36 volt, geared motors with reverse controllers…. But is 6.5 Nm enough?
Comes pre-wired with electronic braking… what the.


Regards,
T.C.
 
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This kit looks interesting…

S15df26a440be47bbb144d90b2dd77656k.jpg


as seen here…

Dual Drive 5 Inch Solid Tire Supermarkets Moving Delivery Carry Cargo Cart Trolley Gear Hub Motor Kit

Low speed, high torque, 36 volt, geared motors with reverse controllers…. But is 6.5 Nm enough?
Comes pre-wired with electronic braking… what the.


Regards,
T.C.
Awesome example! To my untrained eye that looks perfect even for my application. Again like others are saying.. does this have ability to put heavy weight up slight 5 to 10 ° degree incline... my biggest concern. Also will this overheat??
 
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