Need help with my first wheel build - for 20 inch fat DD rear hub

[OkinawaJapan]

Hey guys.

I've found a nice DD hub motor I am going to order to try out. Seems like a good alternative to the Grin Max45 I have on order for my main bike.

This is the only other FAT DD motor I've ever seen as yet. Anyone else found any? This looks promising for only $150 delivered!

Going to build this for my backup bike Build #2. My bike's got 20x4.0 inch, 82mm wide wheels on it. So I'm looking for a rim to order online to match that.

Seems that Grin doesn't sell an 80mm wide 20 inch fat rim sadly. Trying to understand if 36H is fine or is it best to stick with a 32H rim?

If so, I'll need a source link for quality 20x4.0 80mm wide, 32H rims please. Not finding anything.

I plan to order my spokes from Grin. Sapim Strong 13-14g Butted Spoke, Black

​

Here's what I've input into the spoke calculator so far based on the below specs I've found:

Online Spoke Calculator for Hubmotors and Ebikes

Our handy spoke length calculator allows for easy calculation of spoke length for custom builds - and is the only one of its kind to include paired spoke holes in the flange as is common with many large diameter hub motors. It also creates an automatic side view drawing of the laced wheel and...

ebikes.ca

So far I can figure out a few of the dimensions:

Flange Diam. = 179mm
Flange Spacing = 66.5mm
Dishing Offset = -3mm? See below.
# of spokes = 36. I'm only finding 20x4.0 fat rims on aliexpress that are 36H. Not finding 32H rims yet. Maybe 36 will be stronger anyway?
Grin uses 32H but are sold out currently. They don't have 80mm wide rims at all either.
Axle Length 175mm


Rim Settings:

Again, I have only found these aliexpress basic rims so far. If you've got links to quality 20x4.0 80mm wide rims I'll graciously accept them.

Don't have this info yet as it's not posted in the listing. I might have to get the rim in hand first to measure it.

https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006422216871.html $33.28 with free shipping.
or here: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005192914786.html $30.70 with free shipping.

View attachment 1755347792506.webp
Lacing options:
Will do a single cross as per Grin's recommendation in their video for ebike hubs.
ERD = ??? I've asked the resellers. Awaiting response.
Left Offset = 1.75 ??? I've asked the resellers. First reseller said, "The left and right offset is 1.75-2.125"
That sound usable? How do I input it? So far I input it respectively as listed.
Right Offset = 2.125 ??? I've asked both resellers.
Rim Width = 80mm (My rims measure 82mm exactly outside width with a caliper.

I'm following Grin's video on how to measure a hub motor's "Lock Nut Dimensions" but I can't get the axle hub width from the below diagram as I don't think it's
listed. Might need the hub in hand as well to determine?

Actually I may have figured it out. I think it's 28.5 - 31.5 = -3mm for the offset?


Shown here at 03:20 in the video:

Here are the specs on the DD rear hub motor: Motors for Electric Bikes: New QS159.8 E Bike Hub Motor

I'm asking the factory to install an L1019 connector and NTC 10k thermistor with a beta value of 3450 before shipment. I will pair this with a Baserunner L10 and will run dual V7 torque arms on it for regen.

QS159.8 E Bike Hub Motor (Direct Drive)​

This is what I get so far:


Or I could put the left elbows "In" for a better tension ratio. I'm leaning toward this for balance and I can order all 115mm length spokes.




Interested in all the feedback I can get. Thank you.

 

[2old]

I didn't get immersed in the entire treatise, but doesn't the number of holes in the hub you select dictate the number in the rim? Also, the material you choose for the rim (steel, aluminum, carbon) is relevant, but if you're looking for something adequate and relatively inexpensive, you might start with SunRingle Mulefat rims. We need Chalo.

 

[OkinawaJapan]

I didn't get immersed in the entire treatise, but doesn't the number of holes in the hub you select dictate the number in the rim? Also, the material you choose for the rim (steel, aluminum, carbon) is relevant, but if you're looking for something adequate and relatively inexpensive, you might start with SunRingle Mulefat rims. We need Chalo.

Oh. Doh.. You're right now that I think about it. That just goes to show how new I am at this.

Yes, I count 18 holes per side on this hub. So 36H it is. lol. Appreciate it.

I'll search on the SunRingle Mulefut Rim and see what I get. Thank you.

 

[Papa]

Seems that Grin doesn't sell an 80mm wide 20 inch fat rim sadly.

Because you don't need an 80mm rim for 100mm tires. 41mm> will suffice.

 

[docw009]

Again, I have only found these aliexpress basic rims so far. If you've got links to quality 20x4.0 80mm wide rims I'll graciously accept them.

https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006422216871.html $33.28 with free shipping.
or here: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005192914786.html $30.70 with free shipping.

You probably don't want those rims. I believe they are single wall and pinned. Also humungous wide. I bought a set in 2020. Wrapped with foam and stuck in a plastic envelop, Knocked about in a cargo hold and still round after all those miles from China, But with the single wall, I had to get a PVC rim wrap and a lot of tape to protect the inner tube from the spoke ends. You want double wall. Welded is nicer too, Pinned is low end. Built a 20"x100mm wheel using a G60 and then found the axle was too wide for my Ecotric fat tire bike.

I did buy Grins 20" x 65mm, No one else in the internet offered them,. I was going to replace the steel rims in my Ecotric 20" fat tire bike, Never did, Poured a bit of money into that inexpensive bike.

 

[ebola]

I used to use roger mussons calculator on wheelpro.co.uk but now its linked to a book you have to buy. But yeah that one always spits out correct numbers imo. You always go up to next whole number available in spoke lenght. Never ever down. Unless its like 0,3mm.

First thing to do when building a wheel is to measure the hubs. Center of the hole diameter both sides. Then you KNOW.
Then you measure flange distance from center, both sides. I measure to the center of the flange.

And now its time to measure the rim ERD. What is rim erd?? Is it a standardized measure? No it is not, it varies with spokes and nipples for instance. Can you trust published erd data?? Yes you can if you want to buy 3 sets of spokes for each side, when you figure out this will never ever work.

What you do is this: take 2 spokes. The brand and model you will be using, and you chop these down to EXACTLY 200mm or 150mm. And then insert these into the nipples you will be using. Screw the spokes into the nipples until flush with the bottom of the flat cut in the nipple head. NOT flush with the top of the nipple.
This is your measuring device. Insert these in 2 spoke holes on opposing sides. 180 degrees apart. Measure the distance of either overlap or distance to the end of the spokes in the center of the wheel. Now add this measured distance to or subtract from 300mm or 400mm (2 spokes lenght) depending on the length of your spokes.

This is the best way of measing real erd, YOUR actual ERD, and this is what you should do. and you should measure this all across the rim, and average this number. If there is no stretch in the spokes you will end up at the bottom of the cutout in the nipple when all torqued up, but most likely you will end up somewhere between the bottom and the top of the nipple cutout since the spokes stretch.

And very soon after this you will bottom out in the threads of the nipples and can't tighten further. End of the line. This is what happens if your spokes are too long.

If your rim if out by more than 1mm between these ERD measurements, hole to hole, then you have shit oval rim. And you will never be able to build a truly good wheel with it. Since a good wheel has the same tension in all spokes. Thats whats makes it good. But with an oval rim you will not have equal tension if you also want a round wheel. You can have a round wheel with unequal tension, or you can have an oval wheel with equal tension. Thats it.

I read mike t wheelbuilding tutorial and also sheldon browns tutorial before I built my first wheel 15 years ago. Those were good.

Never use loctite.

Use grease in the nipples and threads and seat.

Use rims with eyelets.

Destress after every round.

 

[OkinawaJapan]

Because you don't need an 80mm rim for 100mm tires. 41mm> will suffice.
View attachment 375454

Oh. Hmmm. This is interesting. So these 80mm wide rims are just for looks then? Interesting!

The chart doesn't even have an 80mm inner rim width recommendation. Well, nor does it have a 65mm rim width for that matter.

Oh, wait. It does. You just have to go all the way to 100mm tire width and cross that over to the 77 to 100 inner rim width column.

They cross over there. So it seems that 80mm wide rims are non standard offerings? Maybe that's why I'm not finding them for sale other than out of China on aliexpress.

Perhaps the easiest solution then would be to keep the 65mm rim wheel build order from Grin (for Build#1) as is and just get a matching rim built for the front? Then either stick with the current Schwalbe Super Moto-X 20x4.0 tires I ordered as is, or even consider going down to 20x3.0 tires perhaps?

 

[OkinawaJapan]

You probably don't want those rims. I believe they are single wall and pinned. Also humungous wide. I bought a set in 2020. Wrapped with foam and stuck in a plastic envelop, Knocked about in a cargo hold and still round after all those miles from China, But with the single wall, I had to get a PVC rim wrap and a lot of tape to protect the inner tube from the spoke ends. You want double wall. Welded is nicer too, Pinned is low end. Built a 20"x100mm wheel using a G60 and then found the axle was too wide for my Ecotric fat tire bike.

I did buy Grins 20" x 65mm, No one else in the internet offered them,. I was going to replace the steel rims in my Ecotric 20" fat tire bike, Never did, Poured a bit of money into that inexpensive bike.

Thank you for the first hand shared experience on this topic. It helps.

Yes, it seems only Grin offers these 20" fat 32H quality rims on the net at a decent price. $40 is a great price as the few other online stores that seem to have the Weinmann DHL65 rims are asking nearly double for them. So perhaps it's best for me to just stick with them as is. I'm ensured a quality wheel build from them for the MAX45 hub. So that might be best. Then just order a second built for the front to match...

I hadn't noticed the cheap Chinese rims were single wall until you mentioned it. I wasn't clued in to look for that yet. Thanks for pointing it out. So double walled are a lot stronger/better huh? I'll start reading up on that aspect. Thank you.

 

[OkinawaJapan]

I used to use roger mussons calculator on wheelpro.co.uk but now its linked to a book you have to buy. But yeah that one always spits out correct numbers imo. You always go up to next whole number available in spoke lenght. Never ever down. Unless its like 0,3mm.

First thing to do when building a wheel is to measure the hubs. Center of the hole diameter both sides. Then you KNOW.
Then you measure flange distance from center, both sides. I measure to the center of the flange.

And now its time to measure the rim ERD. What is rim erd?? Is it a standardized measure? No it is not, it varies with spokes and nipples for instance. Can you trust published erd data?? Yes you can if you want to buy 3 sets of spokes for each side, when you figure out this will never ever work.

What you do is this: take 2 spokes. The brand and model you will be using, and you chop these down to EXACTLY 200mm or 150mm. And then insert these into the nipples you will be using. Screw the spokes into the nipples until flush with the bottom of the flat cut in the nipple head. NOT flush with the top of the nipple.
This is your measuring device. Insert these in 2 spoke holes on opposing sides. 180 degrees apart. Measure the distance of either overlap or distance to the end of the spokes in the center of the wheel. Now add this measured distance to or subtract from 300mm or 400mm (2 spokes lenght) depending on the length of your spokes.

This is the best way of measing real erd, YOUR actual ERD, and this is what you should do. and you should measure this all across the rim, and average this number. If there is no stretch in the spokes you will end up at the bottom of the cutout in the nipple when all torqued up, but most likely you will end up somewhere between the bottom and the top of the nipple cutout since the spokes stretch.

And very soon after this you will bottom out in the threads of the nipples and can't tighten further. End of the line. This is what happens if your spokes are too long.

If your rim if out by more than 1mm between these ERD measurements, hole to hole, then you have shit oval rim. And you will never be able to build a truly good wheel with it. Since a good wheel has the same tension in all spokes. Thats whats makes it good. But with an oval rim you will not have equal tension if you also want a round wheel. You can have a round wheel with unequal tension, or you can have an oval wheel with equal tension. Thats it.

I read mike t wheelbuilding tutorial and also sheldon browns tutorial before I built my first wheel 15 years ago. Those were good.

Never use loctite.

Use grease in the nipples and threads and seat.

Use rims with eyelets.

Destress after every round.

Thank you. Some golden nuggets of wisdom shared there. Thank you.

Good to know not to trust most published ERD data and test on the actual rims. Especially if using cheaper aftermarket unbranded rims I'm sure.

I didn't know that about oval vs round being so important. Key insight there when you said,

"You can have a round wheel with unequal tension, or you can have an oval wheel with equal tension. Thats it."

Interesting point. I was assuming one could just bend the rim back into round with a bit of massaging and be good enough.

Some great tips there at the end. Thank you. I'll be on the lookout for only rims with eyelets. I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it that the cheap Chinese rims I posted don't have them. Thank you for pointing that out.

I'll also continue the study of wheel building as it seems there's a lot to get right for a quality wheel build. Thanks again.

 

[neptronix]

Here's a thought.
Downgrade to 3.0-3.5 in the rear and accept a 60mm rim.
You'll get extra efficiency and torque in exchange for slightly slower speed.
Your front fork angle will get a little slacker, you'll gain a couple millimeters of wheelbase, and the vehicle will become a bit better suited to the high speed the motor can put out.

This motor would absolutely rip on 80-100 amps btw

 

[amberwolf]

Also, if you have to, you can use moped (much lighter than motorcycle, but heavier than bicycle) rims in 16" size to fit 20" bicycle tires, and vice-versa.

Whatever you get, make sure it is at least doublewall aluminum, and has eyelets on the nipple holes.

And as noted, be sure it actually is round; it really sucks to try to build and tension a wheel out of a messed up rim.


The only problems I've had with the ex-Zero-rims like the above that I've been using for years (mostly with Shinko SR714 16x2.25" tires) have been when I had unavoidable encounters with large debris falling off of other road vehicles, or holes in the road itself. (usually the deep sharp edged ones).

I use Sapim (strong, I think) 13/14 single butted spokes (from ebikes.ca), and even when I've broken an axle or a rim I still haven't broken the spokes on those wheels. (even reused the spokes when replacing the rim...still ok....and this is a heavy heavy-cargo trike meant to carry hundreds of pounds of cargo, dogs, or whatever, plus me, and it's own not insignificant weight :lol: )

roger mussons calculator on wheelpro.co.uk

AFAIK it's still here

Spoke length calculator for wheel building

A spoke length calculator for cycle wheels created by Roger Musson. Straight pull hub and fatbike compatible.

web.archive.org

and probably in other versions of the page archived there. (haven't tested it).

 

[docw009]

Singlewall 20" and the spokes were too long too,

Horrible to look at, but I guess millions of 27" bikes were made this way,

I have had tubes expand into the holes on a doublewall tube and cut the rubber when I only used a rubber rim strip,

 

[amberwolf]

I have had tubes expand into the holes on a doublewall tube and cut the rubber when I only used a rubber rim strip,

That's why I use this:

Black Gorilla Tape | Gorilla Glue

Black Gorilla Tape is 3X stronger for a hold that lasts. Made with double-thick adhesive, a tough all-weather shell and UV resistance to prevent yellowing.

gorillatough.com

It also usually peels off cleanly, at least up to the point the adhesive degrades in the heat (takes a good while if not in the direct sunlight). So for things I need to cover a hole that I will need access to, where a silicone plug or whatever isn't usable, this stuff does the job most of the time.

 

[OkinawaJapan]

Here's a thought.
Downgrade to 3.0-3.5 in the rear and accept a 60mm rim.
You'll get extra efficiency and torque in exchange for slightly slower speed.
Your front fork angle will get a little slacker, you'll gain a couple millimeters of wheelbase, and the vehicle will become a bit better suited to the high speed the motor can put out.

This motor would absolutely rip on 80-100 amps btw

Interesting idea. I didn't even know this was an option. I will mull it over.

I'm still inclined to try to keep the aesthetics as is if I can though by trying to find some quality 80-85mm rims.

I've been able to find some potential candidates but it's hard to tell from the pics and stated specs of these sellers sometimes.

I need to confirm if 'dual layer' is what I need? As "double wall construction" refers to the sidewall? I think the dual layer means it has a second layer over the nipples between them and the tube? If so, then those are definitely harder to find in 20x4x80mm.

I found one reseller on alibaba who says they can offer me both 32H and 36H when I order.

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www.alibaba.com

But their video shows single layer rims, then the next pictures seem to show dual layer rims. They say the rims are 'like the picture'.

$80 for express shipping for one of each 32H and 36H rims to my address.


At this point spokes and rims seem like such a PITA. I am now looking at just ordering a pair of mag wheels with a rear DD motor even if it's heavy.
From one of these two vendors. Even comes with a matching front wheel. And they can install an L1019 connector and NTC 10k thermistor for me for $20 extra. Whole lot less work involved in wheel building and all this concern over durability of rim choice.

1500w-2000w 20x4.0 Gearless Fat Bike Rear Wheel Motor With Front No Drive Wheel - Buy Brushless Gearless Hub Motor For 20 Inch Electric Snow Bike/off Road Bike 1500w-2000w Rear Wheel Motor 20x4.0 Snow Bike Hub Motor Product on Alibaba.com These guys answered right away today and seem willing to customize the cable for me. Awaiting a shipping quote.

20 20x4.0 20x4 Inch Gearless 48v 60v 72v 1000w 1500w Fat Tire Rear Wheel Hub Motor Electric Bicycle E Bike Conversion Kit - Buy 20x4.0 Inch Motor Kit 20x4.0 Ebike Kit 20 Inch Conversion Kit Product on Alibaba.com These guys haven't answered yet.

 

[OkinawaJapan]

Also, if you have to, you can use moped (much lighter than motorcycle, but heavier than bicycle) rims in 16" size to fit 20" bicycle tires, and vice-versa.

Whatever you get, make sure it is at least doublewall aluminum, and has eyelets on the nipple holes.

And as noted, be sure it actually is round; it really sucks to try to build and tension a wheel out of a messed up rim.


The only problems I've had with the ex-Zero-rims like the above that I've been using for years (mostly with Shinko SR714 16x2.25" tires) have been when I had unavoidable encounters with large debris falling off of other road vehicles, or holes in the road itself. (usually the deep sharp edged ones).

I use Sapim (strong, I think) 13/14 single butted spokes (from ebikes.ca), and even when I've broken an axle or a rim I still haven't broken the spokes on those wheels. (even reused the spokes when replacing the rim...still ok....and this is a heavy heavy-cargo trike meant to carry hundreds of pounds of cargo, dogs, or whatever, plus me, and it's own not insignificant weight :lol: )


AFAIK it's still here

Spoke length calculator for wheel building

A spoke length calculator for cycle wheels created by Roger Musson. Straight pull hub and fatbike compatible.

web.archive.org

and probably in other versions of the page archived there. (haven't tested it).

Thanks for that. I'd meant to get back to you about the moped tire idea the other day when you first mentioned it. I saw someone doing that on youtube and chose those Shinko tires and they looked very rugged. I'm interested in trying these out someday. Wanted to try the Schwalbe super moto-x first as they're lighter to see if they'd be adequate. But those moped tires would reduce flats to zero for sure. Better grip I read too.

I'll look into finding some 16" moped rims as options. Might be perfect actually. Thank you!

Edit: Not finding moped nor motorcycle rims easily that are 16x4.0.

 

[amberwolf]

Mag wheels have one advantage I'm aware of--they can be made to "look cool" wiht all sorts of "spoke" shapes.

They have to be heavier built than a spoked wheel because they aren't held in tension by the spokes, so the rim itself has to provide all the support, by itself. All it's "spokes" do is connect it to the hub.

If the rim is ever deformed you can't do anything but replace teh whole wheel, hub and all (that includes replacing the motor if it's in there).


A spoked wheel's rim is held in tension and distributes loads around the lighter-built rim via this method.

A spoked wheel can be retrued after some amount of rim damage.

A spoked wheel can have just it's rim replaced, keeping your hub (and motor), etc.

 

[2old]

Really good advice above on spoked wheels.They are extra heavy in the worst way possible, unsprung weight. Only last suggestion would be to consider 14 ga spokes since they usually build a stronger wheel (look at previous posts) and realize you might need washers with some rim - hub arrangements.

 

[amberwolf]

Edit: Not finding moped nor motorcycle rims easily that are 16x4.0.

Most of the moped / mc rims I've seen are not measured in inches for width, but rather mm (even if the diameter is in inches). Confusing? :/

So you're probably looking for a 16" 90/100 rim, at a guess.

Keep in mind that such rims in moped types won't be as light as a bicycle rim, but they will almost certainly be a lot lighter than a motorcycle mc version (which by itself may weigh as much as your entire bicycle wheel with tire, hub, spokes, axle).

If you went with the shinko SR714 to go with such a rim, they have an 80/90 I've considered, and might have a 90/100 (which is the ratio of height and width; I forget which is the first number).

 

[OkinawaJapan]

Thanks for that. There was a guy that made a youtube video I saw last month where he used some Shinko moped tires on his fat bike. I took a screenshot at the time so I'd remember the model of tire and the size. Here it is below. Found the video too.

I'll try and find the rims now that I have a better search size. Thank you.

Also, I had a video pop up yesterday on youtube where the guy went across Alaska on the cheapest Walmart Chinese crotch rocket he could buy. Had mag wheels. Hit a pothole and the thin cracked leaving him stranded. I doubt that would have happened with a spoked rim. So that's a hint at the risk with the cheap mag metal in some of these rims. But may be find for me riding pavement on maintained Japanese roads here. So still considering it.

But likely will still do the wheel build as I want to learn the art and I'm all about learning. Plus the benefits you'd listed earlier.







I also went back through my youtube history to find the videos on this topic of installing moped tires on fat bikes that I'd watched. I'll share them below for others who may be interested. The idea has some definite merit.

There's also the Michelin City Grip 2 tires as well as an option other than the Shinko SR567.

Hope these help someone in the future reading this thread.

Thanks.

 

[amberwolf]

Also, I had a video pop up yesterday on youtube where the guy went across Alaska on the cheapest Walmart Chinese crotch rocket he could buy. Had mag wheels. Hit a pothole and the thin cracked leaving him stranded. I doubt that would have happened with a spoked rim. So that's a hint at the risk with the cheap mag metal in some of these rims. But may be find for me riding pavement on maintained Japanese roads here. So still considering it.

That's one of the problems....you could still crack a rim in an unrideable way on a spoked wheel, in an extreme situation.

If you look thru my CrazyBIke2 (heavy cargo bike) and SB Cruiser (heavy cargo trike) threads you'll find where i did similar damage to at least two wheels, and it took some time for them to fail dangerously. The problem I had was the bead seat edge was crumpled / folded by the impact, no longer securing the bead of the tire at that point. On the first one I bent the rim back to shape, which was a mistake as it then began to separate from the rim from the stress cracks induced. I didn't do this with the second one, so it was more of the wobble induced by the rim deformation (too extreme to completely true out with spoke retensioning) that forced me to replace it, IIRC.

If you're using high-pressure tires on a rim that has a bead seat damaged area, the tire can come off...but low pressure fat tires and MC/moped tires don't seem to have this issue (for me, at least) even under fairly extreme lateral stress and weight loading.

There's also the Michelin City Grip 2 tires as well as an option other than the Shinko SR567.

I don't have experience with either of those tires, but it's likely that at least the Shinko will be similar or identical compound to what I have used, which works well (though softer wears faster it gives much better grip, thus control and traction and braking performance).

There are probably lots of tires that would work, including Pirelli and other brands. When I find something that works reliably, I usually stick with that, as my rides are my daily transportation and have to "just work".

Just...check the weight of the tires you're intending to use, and be sure not to pick motorcycle tires unless you're going to use a MC rim too--if the sidewalls are too heavy / thick, you could break a bicycle / etc rim trying to even install them.

The extra weight on the tread area won't affect this, that just gives you more puncture resistance, and less likelihood of a flat when you do get a puncture if the item stays in the hole (the thicker rubber can hold it there and make it into a slow leak, especially if you go tubeless (I don't, I just use thick MC/moped tubes with the TR-4 stem).


Heavier / thicker tires do change performance, usaully for the worse, and make it a lot harder to pedal without power, and take more motor power to move. But if you have a lot of flats or have some other overriding factor, they are an option.

 

[OkinawaJapan]

So can you tell if this is a 'dual layer' or 'double wall' rim from the pic?

Or is that just a plastic liner with holes in it as a rim strip?

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I think I may just order two of these to play with for practicing wheel building. Total is right around $107 delivered for two. A 32H and a 36H express mail.

I think it's double as when looking at this ebay listing they say it is.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[OkinawaJapan]

I think I finally found them from an online shop.

EUROPE CRUISER SHOP ONLINE - custom bicycle frames and components - Cruiser Shop Europe

www.cruisershop.eu

Seem to be the same type in the pic too. But this one has the dimensions shown with the double wall graphic.

 

[amberwolf]

I think I finally found them from an online shop.

EUROPE CRUISER SHOP ONLINE - custom bicycle frames and components - Cruiser Shop Europe

www.cruisershop.eu

Seem to be the same type in the pic too. But this one has the dimensions shown with the double wall graphic.

That is a double wall type, yes.

So can you tell if this is a 'dual layer' or 'double wall' rim from the pic?

Or is that just a plastic liner with holes in it as a rim strip?

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Tha'ts a double wall type too. Every rim I've seen with what looks like two sets of holes stack on top of each ohter, with the inner holes smaller than the outer, is a doulbe wall.

 

[amberwolf]

I use Sapim (strong, I think) 13/14 single butted spokes (from ebikes.ca), and even when I've broken an axle or a rim I still haven't broken the spokes on those wheels. (even reused the spokes when replacing the rim...still ok....and this is a heavy heavy-cargo trike meant to carry hundreds of pounds of cargo, dogs, or whatever, plus me, and it's own not insignificant weight :lol: )

Just a note: I was looking for an image in my trike thread for someoen else and ran across my post about running over some debris that trashed my leftside wheel back in 2024; I forgot that this did indeed break four spokes at the same time. The SB Cruiser : Amberwolf's 2WD Heavy Cargo Trike & Dog Carrier
but that was after both the impact *and* the ride home on the trashed flat tire. :/ So, not terribly surprised.


That was when i switched to the ultramotor on that side

 

[ebola]

AFAIK it's still here

Spoke length calculator for wheel building

A spoke length calculator for cycle wheels created by Roger Musson. Straight pull hub and fatbike compatible.

web.archive.org

and probably in other versions of the page archived there. (haven't tested it).

i tried a 2014 version i think and that actually spat out some numbers. also all the things on how to measure and such worked.