A Very Very Low Cost Electric Bike from Pakistan
- Thread starter numberonebikeslover
- Start date
Good for you Naeem.
You are a positive influence to the future of ebikes.
Well done.
You are a positive influence to the future of ebikes.
Well done.
numberonebikeslover
1 kW
AOA
Sent: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:13 am
From: sirajmunir
To: numberonebikeslover
AOA. how are you? i am too from Pakistan and was amazed to see your ebike. I had been searching for useful information for a long time until i came up to this forum and i couldnt believe my eyes when i saw a pure Pakistani creation! I have always thought of making such a thing but was never successful due to the fact that i wasnt able to find a suitable motor. I like your way of using a radiator motor but i wanted to know what should i tell the motor mechanic for rewinding if i need 24v instead of 12v? I would be very thankful if you answer my question. Please answer my question on sirajmunir007@gmail.com. Allah Hafiz
Reply:
Dear Brother Siraj;
Assalam-O-Alaykum;
It gives me great pleasure to know that you intend to do the same (electric bike Project) as I did. It will indeed be a great pleasure for me to be of any help to you.
The motor I used is found on the radiator of 1986 Corola as its fan motor. The main quality I found in this motor which compelled me to select it for my project is that it has enough room for re-winding and putting more wire. First of all you must remember few basic things about winding a DC motor;
1) Greater number of turns per coil means you could run it on higher voltage and will give you quite enough power with small batteries.
2) Thicker the wire, lesser will be the number of turns you could wind, as it will need more room for the purpose and will need a larger battery to run efficiently.
3) Higher the voltage, greater will be the power of the motor as; Wattage=Voltage x Amps.
For example a motor with following specifications will have same power:
i) V=12, Amps drawn by motor (I) = 166.667, Wattage = ?
Putting values we get = W=12 x 166.667 = 2000 watts.
ii) V=54 Amps drawn by motor (I) = 37, Wattage = ?
Putting values we get = W= 54 x 37 = 2000 watts.
Both motors have the same power but in first case the motor will require a huge battery (120 amps) to work for an hour. In second case the motor will need small 12 volt batteries of about 20 to 30 amps to work the same amount. This is the situation I have with my electric bike.
4) Increasing the number of turns of wire in a DC motor also increases its efficiency. Motor’s efficiency means that amount of electric power a motor can convert into mechanical force/energy, is called as its efficiency. It is an admitted fact that no motor in the world can convert the entire amount of electrical energy into mechanical energy. There are always losses in the form of heat and friction. In my case I increased the amount of turns in my motor by using quit thin wire and greater amount of turns per coil (roughly 23 turns per coil with 22 Number SWG wire). It took me two motors to learn and do it correctly. The motor is very tough to open as it is sealed by the company and there is no way to open it only by using a minus screwdriver and a hammer to break its seals at the rare end of motor and turn the metal seal around to let the entire motor open. During this process I destroyed two motors and the third one went well. It is been working for the last 3 – 4 years without any problem.
Do try it if you can and have the strength to do it. It is quite a challenge. I could have imported a state of the art hub motor from abroad but my challenge was to make some thing from the resources available in Pakistan. May Allah help you through your project. Do bother me whenever you feel you need help.
Yours Brother
Naeem.
Sent: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:13 am
From: sirajmunir
To: numberonebikeslover
AOA. how are you? i am too from Pakistan and was amazed to see your ebike. I had been searching for useful information for a long time until i came up to this forum and i couldnt believe my eyes when i saw a pure Pakistani creation! I have always thought of making such a thing but was never successful due to the fact that i wasnt able to find a suitable motor. I like your way of using a radiator motor but i wanted to know what should i tell the motor mechanic for rewinding if i need 24v instead of 12v? I would be very thankful if you answer my question. Please answer my question on sirajmunir007@gmail.com. Allah Hafiz
Reply:
Dear Brother Siraj;
Assalam-O-Alaykum;
It gives me great pleasure to know that you intend to do the same (electric bike Project) as I did. It will indeed be a great pleasure for me to be of any help to you.
The motor I used is found on the radiator of 1986 Corola as its fan motor. The main quality I found in this motor which compelled me to select it for my project is that it has enough room for re-winding and putting more wire. First of all you must remember few basic things about winding a DC motor;
1) Greater number of turns per coil means you could run it on higher voltage and will give you quite enough power with small batteries.
2) Thicker the wire, lesser will be the number of turns you could wind, as it will need more room for the purpose and will need a larger battery to run efficiently.
3) Higher the voltage, greater will be the power of the motor as; Wattage=Voltage x Amps.
For example a motor with following specifications will have same power:
i) V=12, Amps drawn by motor (I) = 166.667, Wattage = ?
Putting values we get = W=12 x 166.667 = 2000 watts.
ii) V=54 Amps drawn by motor (I) = 37, Wattage = ?
Putting values we get = W= 54 x 37 = 2000 watts.
Both motors have the same power but in first case the motor will require a huge battery (120 amps) to work for an hour. In second case the motor will need small 12 volt batteries of about 20 to 30 amps to work the same amount. This is the situation I have with my electric bike.
4) Increasing the number of turns of wire in a DC motor also increases its efficiency. Motor’s efficiency means that amount of electric power a motor can convert into mechanical force/energy, is called as its efficiency. It is an admitted fact that no motor in the world can convert the entire amount of electrical energy into mechanical energy. There are always losses in the form of heat and friction. In my case I increased the amount of turns in my motor by using quit thin wire and greater amount of turns per coil (roughly 23 turns per coil with 22 Number SWG wire). It took me two motors to learn and do it correctly. The motor is very tough to open as it is sealed by the company and there is no way to open it only by using a minus screwdriver and a hammer to break its seals at the rare end of motor and turn the metal seal around to let the entire motor open. During this process I destroyed two motors and the third one went well. It is been working for the last 3 – 4 years without any problem.
Do try it if you can and have the strength to do it. It is quite a challenge. I could have imported a state of the art hub motor from abroad but my challenge was to make some thing from the resources available in Pakistan. May Allah help you through your project. Do bother me whenever you feel you need help.
Yours Brother
Naeem.
Hi!
I also used to wind electric motors on my own, although they are for RX planes.
http://extremflug.de/seite075.htm
http://extremflug.de/seite076.htm
So, perhaps I can tell you a word or two about winding.
Generally, one should put as many copper a possible in a motor. Notice, that I do not say "many windings", but "much copper".
The number of windings and diameter of the copper wire is another thing.
With the total mass of copper in the motor being equal, one can either have more windings with less wire diameter, or less windings with more diameter.
Winding a motor with less windings at a bigger wire diameter, gives more speed and torque, but also requires a higher current.
Winding a motor with more windings at a smaller wire diameter, gives less speed and torque, but requires less current.
So, the best thing for you would be to take the motor as it is, and check the performance of your bike. If it goes too slow, get less windings with a bigger wire diameter on it, if it draws too much current and/or the motor overheats, less windings at a bigger wire diameter is the cure.
If the motor runs alright, but one wants to operate it with a higher voltage while keeping the same performance, one has to use more windings with smaller wire diameter.
Apart from that, do you guys know the concept of a push trailer?
Here is mine:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=138625#p138625
Here are more ideas:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=152093#p152093
The advantage is, that one is not restricted to the bicycle frame. It might be beneficial for you, as you use a lot of reduction chain drives. As a trailer can use a smaller wheel, which spins faster, you need less reduction, making things less complicated.
Also you can use a normal bike with it, and when the trailer wheel can freewheel like any normal rear bike wheel, you will have no problems pedaling home in a case of component malfunction or dead batterys, as there is hardly increased resistance.
Naeem, you rule! Continue your great work.
Greetings from Germany,
Julian
PS: Another idea might be to take car starter motors. These are durable, as easy to get as fan motors, and have low RPM and a high torque. Might be better than fan engines...?
What do the car-savvy people here think about that? Nonsene or worth a try?
I also used to wind electric motors on my own, although they are for RX planes.
http://extremflug.de/seite075.htm
http://extremflug.de/seite076.htm
So, perhaps I can tell you a word or two about winding.
Generally, one should put as many copper a possible in a motor. Notice, that I do not say "many windings", but "much copper".
The number of windings and diameter of the copper wire is another thing.
With the total mass of copper in the motor being equal, one can either have more windings with less wire diameter, or less windings with more diameter.
Winding a motor with less windings at a bigger wire diameter, gives more speed and torque, but also requires a higher current.
Winding a motor with more windings at a smaller wire diameter, gives less speed and torque, but requires less current.
So, the best thing for you would be to take the motor as it is, and check the performance of your bike. If it goes too slow, get less windings with a bigger wire diameter on it, if it draws too much current and/or the motor overheats, less windings at a bigger wire diameter is the cure.
If the motor runs alright, but one wants to operate it with a higher voltage while keeping the same performance, one has to use more windings with smaller wire diameter.
Apart from that, do you guys know the concept of a push trailer?
Here is mine:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=138625#p138625
Here are more ideas:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=152093#p152093
The advantage is, that one is not restricted to the bicycle frame. It might be beneficial for you, as you use a lot of reduction chain drives. As a trailer can use a smaller wheel, which spins faster, you need less reduction, making things less complicated.
Also you can use a normal bike with it, and when the trailer wheel can freewheel like any normal rear bike wheel, you will have no problems pedaling home in a case of component malfunction or dead batterys, as there is hardly increased resistance.
Naeem, you rule! Continue your great work.
Greetings from Germany,
Julian
PS: Another idea might be to take car starter motors. These are durable, as easy to get as fan motors, and have low RPM and a high torque. Might be better than fan engines...?
What do the car-savvy people here think about that? Nonsene or worth a try?
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Naeem, you inspire me.
I hope your wife is recovering well.
Congradulations on your award!
Your bike is still my favorite Ebike of all the member's here. Its Utility and inguinuity have a beauty that can not be matched by chrome and shine.
I hope your wife is recovering well.
Congradulations on your award!
Your bike is still my favorite Ebike of all the member's here. Its Utility and inguinuity have a beauty that can not be matched by chrome and shine.
etard
100 kW
+1 for pics please..
Naeem,
Truly inspirational build here. You have redeemed this whole community with your ingenuity and vision. I am not familiar with the conditions where you live, but I am certain that if you needed anything at all you could just ask and I am sure there would be an outpouring of contributions from the members here. Surely, I am not alone in my thoughts, it would warm my heart to know that some happy student or nieghbor is motoring around your city because of our help. So if you know of anybody, or perhaps yourself, I'm sure something can be arranged to that end. What do you say guys, we could set up a paypal account or something.
Naeem,
Truly inspirational build here. You have redeemed this whole community with your ingenuity and vision. I am not familiar with the conditions where you live, but I am certain that if you needed anything at all you could just ask and I am sure there would be an outpouring of contributions from the members here. Surely, I am not alone in my thoughts, it would warm my heart to know that some happy student or nieghbor is motoring around your city because of our help. So if you know of anybody, or perhaps yourself, I'm sure something can be arranged to that end. What do you say guys, we could set up a paypal account or something.
numberonebikeslover
1 kW
Hello everybody;
Here are the pics you all have been waiting for of the event "Final of Science Competition" held on 10-11 November, 2009, in which I've won the 3rd grand prize prize.
Sincerely
M. Naeem Zahid
PA to Director/Programme Officer (Oslo Project)
Institute of Education & Research
University of Peshawar
Cell: 0092-301-8815565
Office: 0092-91-5853900
Here are the pics you all have been waiting for of the event "Final of Science Competition" held on 10-11 November, 2009, in which I've won the 3rd grand prize prize.
Sincerely
M. Naeem Zahid
PA to Director/Programme Officer (Oslo Project)
Institute of Education & Research
University of Peshawar
Cell: 0092-301-8815565
Office: 0092-91-5853900
Attachments
liveforphysics
100 TW
Great work on winning 3rd at the science fair!
We all have much love and respect you and your fantastic work.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
We all have much love and respect you and your fantastic work.
Best Wishes,
-Luke
def215
10 kW
im a newer member here and i just read through your whole thread and i just have to say that what you did is amazing. i always like the crazy one off builds. that is an awesome bike that you own. congratulations on winning 3rd place.
numberonebikeslover
1 kW
Dear All!
At last I got a video of my very low cost electric bike (on youtube), in which all the gears and chains are running and coordinating.
I cordially thank you all for appreciation and nice comments.
Yours Truly
Naeem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=404awzr8dMM
At last I got a video of my very low cost electric bike (on youtube), in which all the gears and chains are running and coordinating.
I cordially thank you all for appreciation and nice comments.
Yours Truly
Naeem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=404awzr8dMM
AussieJester
1 TW
^^^ Ditto Naeem, thankyou for taking the time to
make the video, excellent overview of your bike mate...
KiM
p.s your English is exceptional to!
make the video, excellent overview of your bike mate...
KiM
p.s your English is exceptional to!
numberonebikeslover
1 kW
AussieJester said:
I'm highly obliged.
So limited resources, I couldn't find a camera good enough to save a movie in the computer. Borrowed an expensive one from office and did the job. Its indeed an honour to be here.
Sincerely
Naeem
One word... 
cell_man
100 kW
Excellent Work Naeem,
you've really shown what some ingenuity, a good mind and perserverence can achieve with only limited resources. Really wonderful
you've really shown what some ingenuity, a good mind and perserverence can achieve with only limited resources. Really wonderful
AussieJester
1 TW
naeem and Amberwolf should go head to head on a build off would be cool to see what they both come up with ..give them both a budget of 20 bucks and set them loose 
...
KiM
... KiM
numberonebikeslover
1 kW
Dear All;
Following link will tell the reason for my absence from ES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpWcQ-ovgP0
This is a variable transmission with a very vide range of choice, using simple chains and gears readily available in the market in my city ( Peshawar , Pakistan ). It is not just a final stuff at the moment but I’m working towards perfection.
I thank you all for nice comments and appreciation which is indeed great source of motivation for people like my self out there in the world trying to serve humanity and play their part in this world, positively.
Feedback will be highly appreciated.
Respectfully
Naeem
Following link will tell the reason for my absence from ES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpWcQ-ovgP0
This is a variable transmission with a very vide range of choice, using simple chains and gears readily available in the market in my city ( Peshawar , Pakistan ). It is not just a final stuff at the moment but I’m working towards perfection.
I thank you all for nice comments and appreciation which is indeed great source of motivation for people like my self out there in the world trying to serve humanity and play their part in this world, positively.
Feedback will be highly appreciated.
Respectfully
Naeem
Lock
100 MW
Awesome Naeem! So what is the range of ratios you have there?
Cheers
Lock
Toronto
Cheers
Lock
Toronto
ebent
10 kW
Very impressive. Especially considering the availability of parts and pieces. I wonder what Naeem could acomplish given greater acess to modern bike and electric components.
Good Luck Naeem,
ebent
Good Luck Naeem,
ebent
Nice. Question placed in your CVT thread (because based on the look of this, it might fit on CrazyBike2!)
Question placed in your CVT thread (because based on the look of this, it might fit on CrazyBike2!)
numberonebikeslover
1 kW
Lock said:
Highest is 34.0992
Lowest is 8.5248
exectly what i needed.
Dear All Thanks for the coments and useful feedback and appreciation which i need the most.
Sincerely
Naeem
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