Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[brumbrum]

@Brum might have an issue with channel 1 cell. Could be going up in voltage quickly due to reduced capacity. Then when the charge current stops it comes down quickly to meet the others due to high self discharge. May want to check the internal resistance and overall health on that one. Is it in an older pack?

Also wanted to say that with firmware 9G2 my BMS continues to balance after the charger has completely charged the battery and I've unplugged the charger from the wall. I'm assuming it will do so until the top cell reaches the BMS balance voltage I've got set? Nice that it just quietly continues to balance until I go for a ride and bring the voltage down. I've left it this way for about 2 hours now and the delta has gone from .021 to .018. I hope this function hasn't changed on 9G4 which I'll be flashing to once my SD card arrives tomorrow.

Thanks for the heads up, the cells are actually pretty new, so i will keep an eye on things.

What do you mean when you mention 'delta' , is this a term for the cell voltage difference or is it a measurement for something else that i can find in my adaptto display?

So I've left my bike to balance today with the charger completely removed. BMS is still working and delta has gone down so far to .013! This is from .021 to .013 over a period of maybe 5 hours. Whereas in the past with my charger plugged in all night long, which I've done 3 or 4 times now, there has been almost NO change in the delta when I check it the next morning, even though it reached the balancing threshold and the BMS is functioning before I even go to bed. The best I've seen doing it this way is about .019v delta. This is confirmation to me that the charger is impeding the balancing process, at least in my case. So from now on I will be using the charger to get it up to 100%, and then removing it and letting it balance overnight. This is actually a much better method IMPO anyway, as the charger doesn't continue to stay plugged in and running all night.

I would like to second this above statement about balancing without the psu switched on. When switching off my psu and the bms is set to be in a state of balance the bms does indeed carry on flashing its lights and carries on balancing down the upper cells. What a great find! Big thanks to Gmagneto!

Thanks also Allex for the heads up on the cell leakage, i will be, and have been, keeping an eye on individual cell movement as you can probably tell from my series of posts over the past couple of days lol!

 

[Merlin]

How often did i say it's better do use a normal fuse instead of those house breakers and safe the money??
now we hear the controller could get damaged if the circuit breaker cut off when overloaded, which would stand to reason:
if the controller suddenly loses the connection to the battery at very high load, there will occur large voltage spikes because of the inductance and the FET's could blow.

hmm,
all my RC Chargers have the option where to start balancing.
default out of the box a junsi 4010 starts at 4,0v with balancing.

i have understand and tested, if i setup balance voltage to 4.0 in the adaptto bms, it starts on 4.0v
BUT
it DOES bleed the cells down to that set voltage.

i never did balancing for a longer time because my batteries simply had no noteworthy drift by now, but if you say the adaptto bms will bleed all groups down to the set voltage, i believe you.
But in my opinion this is bullshit and makes absolutely no sense.
the bleeding should stop if all cells are lets say equalized within +-10mV

hey, never read about "dont use a house circuit breaker".
if the "manufacturer" ships with the controllers i would say it is ok to use them.
at the beginning i was thinking about AC vs DC and the possibility to make a loooooong huge spark with dc....
but i found 150v DC breakers. so it was ok for me. I had a normal ACV 150a Fuse with my Sabvoton Package.
Never killed one, but using a House breaker is a bit of comfort. IF it trips, just flip it back(if nothing gone wrong) or use it as a pre charge unit.
(from time to time..not every day twice (lipo harness mess guys)

checking some data sheets it say all ABB 201 C63 breakers are for 72v DC nominal voltage. Sounds to me it is also ok using this normal (8$) breakers.

about the tripping under high load and the possible damage to the FETs is a point where we "normal users" dont think about.

sure i have warranty. but i dont like a repair of my controller so it is a good question now to switch back to a normal fuse.
since doc bass do it the same way i wasnt worried about tripping a breaker. (because he is also pushing the limits )


..........

about the BMS....i played a bit with it yesterday.
and: absolutley, it balances to set BALANCE VOTLAGE.

if i setup BV above, charging works nice and smooth without restarting the charge every 5 seconds.
if i setup max charge voltage to 83,8v
and balance voltage to 4.2v
the charging process slows down the amps as i expect from a charger.
NOW the amps are that low that if the first cell hit the 4.2v, the BMS can equalize that cell without stopping the charge process.
If max charge voltage is reached. charging stops and the detecting charger story goes on till i switch of the psu. dont like that but looks like i have to live with it.
first because my motor plays a "melody" in each "detecting charger" state, 2nd a quickcharge is not possible without touching all settings.

i have some 84v charger (supplys) can i charge without the coil THROUGH the controller? or is it prohibited?




detecting charger motor sound:
[youtube]XHmY9sDzqCY[/youtube]


charging process without bms limits:
[youtube]Zy5SEX1kcGY[/youtube]

 

[bigbore]

The only reason I can imagine why they put a coil there is to filter the ripple of the psu

About the breaker I've been using 2 DC 63A 125V breaker in parallel and so far so good. Some time during night with no one on the road I ride at about 9Kw for 4Km and the AC breaker don't like it :wink:

 

[GmagNeato]

about the BMS....i played a bit with it yesterday.
and: absolutley, it balances to set BALANCE VOTLAGE.

if i setup BV above, charging works nice and smooth without restarting the charge every 5 seconds.
if i setup max charge voltage to 83,8v
and balance voltage to 4.2v
the charging process slows down the amps as i expect from a charger.

You could set the max cell voltage to 4.2 and BV to 4.19 or 4.18. Then when the top cells hit the BV and it starts balancing you can just remove the charger and it will continue to balance until you're ready to ride. Has been working great for me but I have max cell voltage set at 4.16 and BV set to 4.14.

detecting charger motor sound:

Glad you brought this up because mine makes the same sound. Very strange. I was wondering if it's of concern but I'm not sure who to even ask, Adaptto or QS? I charge at around 52v and 10-15a with a meanwell power supply. I haven't noticed any problems yet.

 

[GmagNeato]

So is anyone else running the most recent firmware 9G4 who can confirm that the battery/phase amp limits have been increased? Thinking hard about flashing over tonight from 9G2.

 

[notger]

hey, never read about "dont use a house circuit breaker".
if the "manufacturer" ships with the controllers i would say it is ok to use them.
at the beginning i was thinking about AC vs DC and the possibility to make a loooooong huge spark with dc....
but i found 150v DC breakers. so it was ok for me. I had a normal ACV 150a Fuse with my Sabvoton Package.
Never killed one, but using a House breaker is a bit of comfort. IF it trips, just flip it back(if nothing gone wrong) or use it as a pre charge unit.

I use those amazing breakers from E-T-A called 8345-.....,
http://www.e-t-a.at/fileadmin/user_...ik/3_pdf_magn_hydr/3_pdf_deutsch/D_8345_D.pdf

I have the version with 60Amps,K1-DC character and a servo-motor-on-off-controll so i can controll the breaker either directly, or with a signal-voltage from my key switch. (acts kind of a relay)
I chose this option, cause i have the breaker quite "deep" in my Frame Bag, and do not always open the Zipper to totally break the circuit (also cause the Zipper of the crystalite Frame-Bag tends to break if used often).
And its just nice to controll everything via key switch.

greets

Notger

 

[brumbrum]

So is anyone else running the most recent firmware 9G4 who can confirm that the battery/phase amp limits have been increased? Thinking hard about flashing over tonight from 9G2.

You can bypass the battery amps limits in the profile window by doing the following....

Traction settings:
LS enable ON
LS current = turn up as high as you want battery current to be
LS start = low value, zero if you want fulll battery current from a stand still
HS start = i think this is low value too, or it maybe high, you would have to experiment.

The LS current limit will overide the profile current limit and i believe goes higher than the profile window allows.
This was discovered by Doctorbass.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Alternatively just flash with the unlocked firmware as I recently did.
Yeah you loose warranty, but for me it was nearly up anyway.

The LS hack only lets you increase battery amps, not phase amps. It also overrides all profiles, not just Boost, so it's got it's limits compared to the unlocked firmware.
So far I've been fine with 100 battery, 200 phase amps on my Mini-E.

Cheers

 

[zooz]

Hello,

My adaptto max-e is stuck in Brake mode. I tried disconnecting throttle, but for some reason the display shows Brake. Even then I connect the charge it still says brake.

Please see attached picture.

 

[brumbrum]

Hello,

My adaptto max-e is stuck in Brake mode. I tried disconnecting throttle, but for some reason the display shows Brake. Even then I connect the charge it still says brake.

Please see attached picture.

Do you have the brake wires connected to anything i.e a hall sensor or push button?
Are you currently setting up the adaptto for the first time or has the 'brake' suddenly appeared after some use of the controller?

 

[zooz]

Hey,

I was setting up the controller for the first time. I did a system reset and everything is working fine. Thanks for a quick reply.

 

[Merlin]

You could set the max cell voltage to 4.2 and BV to 4.19 or 4.18. Then when the top cells hit the BV and it starts balancing you can just remove the charger and it will continue to balance until you're ready to ride. Has been working great for me but I have max cell voltage set at 4.16 and BV set to 4.14.

detecting charger motor sound:

Glad you brought this up because mine makes the same sound. Very strange. I was wondering if it's of concern but I'm not sure who to even ask, Adaptto or QS? I charge at around 52v and 10-15a with a meanwell power supply. I haven't noticed any problems yet.

I see you are also a lipo guy.
and yes, as we are lipo guys and never charge unattended, looks like this is also a way.

so your QS v3 makes the same sounds? so its not a mxus thing and no one wonders until now
maybe we have a electric guru here who can explain.

 

[Merlin]

So is anyone else running the most recent firmware 9G4 who can confirm that the battery/phase amp limits have been increased? Thinking hard about flashing over tonight from 9G2.

You can bypass the battery amps limits in the profile window by doing the following....

Traction settings:
LS enable ON
LS current = turn up as high as you want battery current to be
LS start = low value, zero if you want fulll battery current from a stand still
HS start = i think this is low value too, or it maybe high, you would have to experiment.

The LS current limit will overide the profile current limit and i believe goes higher than the profile window allows.
This was discovered by Doctorbass.

good you bring that up...
i read about what doc finds out BUT it doesnt work for me.

a: theres no difference in accelerating...
b: if i setup more than battery amps in "Boost profile" the bike stucks on full throttle. everything above 200 battery starts stucking with big throttle dropouts.

tried only once and set LS to off.

maybe its a firmware thing?!

 

[GmagNeato]

Day #3 of balancing this way without charger (after bulk charge reaches 100%). And it's still going.

Edit: just want to clarify that the pack hasn't been balancing for 3 days straight. I ride every day and charge at night before I go to bed, then unplug and remove charger and let it balance overnight.

 

[GmagNeato]

@Brum & CD big thanks for explaining the LS hack in detail. I've seen it spoken of and searched the forum for more info on it to no avail. Now I can try it for myself.

@Merlin, yes lipo it is currently for me. I don't think I would have went lipo though without the onboard cell/bank level monitoring features the Adaptto brings. I think for lipo it's best to be able to leave the pack alone once installed which the Adaptto enables.

For my next build I will most likely be going li-ion for all of the various benefits (except cost but that's an argument in itself). But for now I'm happy with the power the lipo provides. Just have to be more careful. With the Adaptto settings maxed out the cells and wiring stay cool to the touch after hard runs. I'm sure they could take at least 200a batt without breaking a sweat as this would be around 7c and the packs are rated 40-80c.

 

[brumbrum]

@Brum & CD big thanks for explaining the LS hack in detail. I've seen it spoken of and searched the forum for more info on it to no avail. Now I can try it for myself.

@Merlin, yes lipo it is currently for me. I don't think I would have went lipo though without the onboard cell/bank level monitoring features the Adaptto brings. I think for lipo it's best to be able to leave the pack alone once installed which the Adaptto enables.

For my next build I will most likely be going li-ion for all of the various benefits (except cost but that's an argument in itself). But for now I'm happy with the power the lipo provides. Just have to be more careful. With the Adaptto settings maxed out the cells and wiring stay cool to the touch after hard runs. I'm sure they could take at least 200a batt without breaking a sweat as this would be around 7c and the packs are rated 40-80c.

Do you find that when you bulk charge with the coil that the cell voltage difference increases by quite a bit? Or do you expect the 0.004v to stay more or less like this when you reach a full charge state?

 

[GmagNeato]

@Brum & CD big thanks for explaining the LS hack in detail. I've seen it spoken of and searched the forum for more info on it to no avail. Now I can try it for myself.

@Merlin, yes lipo it is currently for me. I don't think I would have went lipo though without the onboard cell/bank level monitoring features the Adaptto brings. I think for lipo it's best to be able to leave the pack alone once installed which the Adaptto enables.

For my next build I will most likely be going li-ion for all of the various benefits (except cost but that's an argument in itself). But for now I'm happy with the power the lipo provides. Just have to be more careful. With the Adaptto settings maxed out the cells and wiring stay cool to the touch after hard runs. I'm sure they could take at least 200a batt without breaking a sweat as this would be around 7c and the packs are rated 40-80c.

Do you find that when you bulk charge with the coil that the cell voltage difference increases by quite a bit? Or do you expect the 0.004v to stay more or less like this when you reach a full charge state?

Yes the delta does increase as it charges but after it balances I end up with a lower delta than the time before, so it is working its way to a more equalized state as it cycles.

For instance the first time I balanced this way the delta was around .021, and ended at around .013 by the time I rode my bike. Then the next time I charged, after the "bulk" portion and at the beginning of balance phase, the delta was up to around .018, and balanced to around .010 by the time I went to ride again. The progress has continued this way and now I'm at .004. I'm not sure how much closer the cells will get to each other but I'm ok with this tolerance even if it stays the same.

 

[GmagNeato]

Alternatively just flash with the unlocked firmware as I recently did.
Yeah you loose warranty, but for me it was nearly up anyway.

The LS hack only lets you increase battery amps, not phase amps. It also overrides all profiles, not just Boost, so it's got it's limits compared to the unlocked firmware.
So far I've been fine with 100 battery, 200 phase amps on my Mini-E.

Cheers

My max is only about 2 months old so I don't want to unlock it just yet Man those are impressive numbers with the mini! I know you're milking all those awesome cooling mods you've done and definitely getting your money's worth out of that Leaf as well! how often does the controller thermally limit your power at these levels? What's hitting the ceiling first, mini or leaf? I think the mini/leaf/flux beta would be killer combo and seriously fun machine! If only the beta could accept a BBSHD..

 

[ap0f1s]

I have a qs motor 205 24x5t 9.03kv and adaptto midi-e. With auto detect configuration i have a problem with overheating. Could you give me manual configuration or you can tell me how can i manually set qs motor 205?

 

[brumbrum]

I have a qs motor 205 24x5t 9.03kv and adaptto midi-e. With auto detect configuration i have a problem with overheating. Could you give me manual configuration or you can tell me how can i manually set qs motor 205?

Read from page 22 in the manual.

If you already having a moving wheel.....

1. angle corr.1 Adjust within -5 to +5 degrees at 15kph until motor runs smooths and quiet. This setting is for fine tuning hall sensor signal.
2. Ind timing. Motor speed at around 50kph (cruising speed, read manual to know how to get this). Change this from zero upwards to achieve crusing speed with least amount of throttle movement and least amount of amps. If the motor starts sounding rough and accelerates very fast then you have gone too high. As a guide i would say something between 400 and 600
3. PWR Timing. Set at around 1.50 This can sometimes be put at higher value. Adjusting this with wheel off the ground at cruising speed will make the motor accelerate, too much will make motor sound rough and heat it up. Pwr timing is for accelerating from mid speed to top speed

 

[Cowardlyduck]

My max is only about 2 months old so I don't want to unlock it just yet Man those are impressive numbers with the mini! I know you're milking all those awesome cooling mods you've done and definitely getting your money's worth out of that Leaf as well! how often does the controller thermally limit your power at these levels? What's hitting the ceiling first, mini or leaf? I think the mini/leaf/flux beta would be killer combo and seriously fun machine! If only the beta could accept a BBSHD..

Thanks!
So far, the controller hasn't thermally limited me at all since it's always my motor that overheats first.
The Leaf overheats faster than my HS4080 did, but it's nearly 1.5KG lighter so makes up for it in a big way.

Does anyone know at what temperature the controller starts limiting power? The highest I think I've ever seen my Mini-E get was about 55C.

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

1. angle corr.1 Adjust within -5 to +5 degrees at 15kph until motor runs smooths and quiet. This setting is for fine tuning hall sensor signal.
2. Ind timing. Motor speed at around 50kph (cruising speed, read manual to know how to get this). Change this from zero upwards to achieve crusing speed with least amount of throttle movement and least amount of amps. If the motor starts sounding rough and accelerates very fast then you have gone too high. As a guide i would say something between 400 and 600
3. PWR Timing. Set at around 1.50 This can sometimes be put at higher value. Adjusting this with wheel off the ground at cruising speed will make the motor accelerate, too much will make motor sound rough and heat it up. Pwr timing is for accelerating from mid speed to top speed

I don't know if that's quite right.

From the Menu Reference it say's this:

Angle corr.
This setting makes up for the inaccuracy of the Hall sensors installed. That is, the difference between the applied magnetic field of the stator and the Hall sensor angle readings. Since three Hall sensors are installed, this setting is the average deviation of the three gauges from zero. Deviation of each sensor separately is determined and automatically compensated for during the rotation of the motor. Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process.
Ind timing
Sets the delay compensation between the signal hall sensor and the control signal of the controller. When rotating at high speeds, the signal from the sensors has been delayed, so you need to adjust the timing. Accordingly, it is the sum of the controller Hall sensor filter circuit delay and the controller CPU processing time. Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process.
PWR timing - Sets the lead angle shift in relation to the phase current. The greater the inductance of the windings of the motor, the stronger the control signal phase currents. This setting compensates BEMF.
PWR timing
PWR timing affects power consumption (and efficiency) of the motor under load. Set PWR timing (usually one of these values: 0.17 for high-speed motors, 0.3-0.5 for average and 0.7-1.2 for slow motors), to achieve maximum acceleration when you mash the throttle at cruising speed.

Compared to the manual, I've found the information in the Menu Reference to be much more helpful in setting up and tuning my motors.

Cheers

 

[brumbrum]

Well, i have never done autodetects and only use manual tuning, and this is from my personal experiences by watching, listening to motor and display and from trying out many differing angles and timings to see how it affects the amps, motor temperature and mosfet temperature. If you want to rely on the technical terms translated from Russian to English then fair enough.
I gave up on autodetect when my cromotor half way through went into hyper speed and then suddenly jammed

Overall, if you run with too high angles and timings the motor and controller will get hot faster than they should.

 

[velias]

Update On Vibration Problem with Adaptto:

After working with Oleg, it was not an Adaptto problem, but a burned/shorted? phase wire inside my motor.
It was odd because it started severe vibration 4 days after I installed my new adaptto, so I assumed it was the controller.
I am really happy with the support that Adaptto has given me and after posting a video of the problem Oleg quickly diagnosed it as a motor problem.
I'm glad Adaptto has the debug display to diagnose problems such as the Hall's, etc.

I'm not sure why the phase wire burned probably a wearing short thru the insulation rubbing or something, i have to dissect the harness inside the motor. Everything looked pristine, no evidence of overheating, other than the burned wire where it is soldered to the winding.
maybe it shorted at the kink out the axle. The motor was a standard crystalyte HS series. 2 years old. The phases all measured continuity to each other, but theres no way to tell if one is shorted to another or not unless opening it up. Maybe it was just a bad solderjoint where phase connects to the winding wires?

I ordered a new motor wire harness from ebikes.ca (despite the ridiculous shipping across the border to the U.S.... Canada postal system=third world). At least I can get the temp sensor in there now that the motors opened up.
If that doesn't work, guess I will buy a new motor ($$$). Starting to think it might be easier/faster less risky to just get a new one.

 

[brumbrum]

Thanks for the update and diagnosis. Glad to hear you found the issue.