AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor

[pendragon8000]

Hi Bozi,

with that charger that does 2 batteries at the same time. I would assume you the negative wires on both are common ground and so if you used the 2 balance leads off one battery to charge them on the 2 oututs from the charger (7s to 4s+3s) then it would short circuit.

sorry to hear you had some sparks and fire. we've all done it. just take it as a lesson.
peace

 

[John Bozi]

sorry to hear you had some sparks and fire.

I was quoting another person. I haven't bought anything yet, I was going to buy everything, thank god I read reviews as everything was hinging on finding easy to use balance plugs.

Im going back 6s bricks...

Hobby king is such a pain, I add stuff to cart and then back space somewhere and they all gone and won't give a discount again.



anyway I am going to buy this now.

OK N8000.6S.25 - Turnigy nano-tech 8000mAh 6S 25~50C Lipo.. $221.08 2796
OK ACC6 - Turnigy Accucel-6 50W 6A Balancer/Charge.. $27.43 437
OK XT150 - XT150 Connectors w/ 6mm Gold Connectors .. $12.40 143

as long as buggers dont out of stock me. I just am not sure what series adaptor to buy or what else. or to buy the rest of the stuff elsewhere.

is this usable or should I get someone to make better quality or something?

and buy a pack of these

or is 12gauge enough?

 

[pendragon8000]

12 gauge should be OK for your power level.
To get specials, bookmark the page and then In delete history in your browser , delete cookies.

 

[pendragon8000]

Wait. Why are you getting nano tec? From what research I've done they aren't the best option for most bikes. I've talked to a pro RC guy and watched videos that record sag with a set load. They are good but not good enough to warrant the high price. Turnigy blue 40c is the best option I know of. Its "common knowledge" nanotechs are best but this is a fallacy IMO. Just like slower motors having more torque. Or high power LEDs must be run from a led driver. Neither is true but ppl believe it.
Also make sure you get the right plug for the battery.

 

[John Bozi]

because I want simplicity and there is only a choice of the zippies which are bad batch in Australia from the sounds of it, or the nanos.

Over the 7s because of that plug

thought that being 8ah should help so that im only using half of it most the time.
Can probably keep the controller under the top tube aswell.

After I feel comfortable maintaining such a small series I can look upgrading controllers and everything else.

step by step.

will have to hook on the headway for long trips once a week or so. rest of the time have a lean mean jumping machine.

 

[pendragon8000]

heres a video of what im talking about..
[youtube]fucFhqx-hHw[/youtube]
the blue 40c turningy is best value for money if you want high c rating, nanotech is suposed to be amazing and worth what you pay but i havent found any evidence that they are really worth it and it kinda shits me that ppl fork out extra cash for them. they are small and light for there c rating but for an ebike who cares about a couple % especially if they are going to over heat and puff.
this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10308__Turnigy_5000mAh_6S_40C_Lipo_Pack.html

 

[John Bozi]

Pend and Newb against the 8ah batteries options.

Scratching my head to go whole hog or easy to manage steps.

cutup some card board to play with this morning.

In triangle options with the 40c turnigy blue packs @ 12s are 5 ahs dont need to change shock or controller position, 10ahs only need to change the shock, 15 ah have to change the shock and controller position. Or further down the track it could become an 18s 10ah (sounds like fun) if I upgrade controller. Not 100% that 15ahs will fit as i outlined the inner frame crudely. I really need the batteries on hand, with wiring and padding and casing installed to see what is more realistic.

Or just put 5 ah in that hard zip case near front.

worried about moving the controller to the bottom for getting suddenly wet when I hit a line of water from nowhere, always safe above the tubes. on top is easy with no need to extend wiring...

If I can avoid putting anything on top I can still strap on the headways if I need 10ah extra...

15ahs Ill be paying for harnessing and will need more serious charging compared to if I just have an easy 5ah mini pack to learn the ropes of lipo and just charge a battery at a time slowly.
lots of tinking again...

 

[izeman]

heres a video of what im talking about..
[youtube]fucFhqx-hHw[/youtube]
the blue 40c turningy is best value for money if you want high c rating, nanotech is suposed to be amazing and worth what you pay but i havent found any evidence that they are really worth it and it kinda shits me that ppl fork out extra cash for them. they are small and light for there c rating but for an ebike who cares about a couple % especially if they are going to over heat and puff.
this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10308__Turnigy_5000mAh_6S_40C_Lipo_Pack.html

40c is great. I agree. On the other hand c-rating is less important the more capacity the pack has. If you have eg a 20Ah lipo pack (4x 5000mAh parallel) you can get the same amps from a 10c pack as from a single 40C pack.

 

[pendragon8000]

Izeman, yeah good point. Well Bozi has his heart set on a 5 ah 2 brick pack.

 

[John Bozi]

Izeman, yeah good point. Well Bozi has his heart set on a 5 ah 2 brick pack.

Did bakery run this morning. Decided to ride like a bicycle except on anything remotely uphill or long enough to not waste the brake pads.

1AH 4kms. Great majority of that is taking the big hills home that I hate pedalling up a sweat and taking ages on. I like to exercise or ride a bicycle when it doesn't make me out of breath or take too long.

I don't think those batteries will fit the ebay case. the cases are a cm too thin and possibly to short...

Easy to fit in triangle anyway.

will see. Newb sounded interested in buying the shock off me...

 

[izeman]

Izeman, yeah good point. Well Bozi has his heart set on a 5 ah 2 brick pack.

i did a test run on a 25c rated lipo 4s1p setup once. so 88v 5000mah pack and 50a. man that battery almost melt down after a minute or two, even it was 'only' 10c. it was hot even 30min after the ride and very soft. went back to normal over night. with a 2p setup it just gets a bit over ambient.

 

[pendragon8000]

Izeman, yeah good point. Well Bozi has his heart set on a 5 ah 2 brick pack.

i did a test run on a 25c rated lipo 4s1p setup once. so 88v 5000mah pack and 50a. man that battery almost melt down after a minute or two, even it was 'only' 10c. it was hot even 30min after the ride and very soft. went back to normal over night. with a 2p setup it just gets a bit over ambient.

I did 25c 5AH pack pulling 500 to 1.2kw no worries. (7amps)
Bozi what's your controller pull ? 2.2kw or so? I guess it would be 40 amps on take off.
Maby use the ca v3 to pull the power back if using the little lipo pack.

 

[izeman]

I did 25c 5AH pack pulling 500 to 1.2kw no worries. (7amps)

yes sure. that's only a mere 1.5c discharge. pull pull 5kw and you can use the packs as handwarmers for a cold evening walk out
as far as i see it, those C ratings are really max values. keep them at a 10th of it, and they will live longer.

 

[John Bozi]

I want to keep the 2150w I got now. Will this still heat up if it were 5ah 12s?

I imagine the motor will overheat faster too if I put more watts through right?

We had an awesome ride with Newb as usual on Sunday. Much better with my temp gradual control now. 90 slowly grading down to 130, gives so much more control. time before that I'd get a warning at 90 and in 10 degrees no power to do anything. Now it is so nice it starts limiting gradually giving me more time to try to be more careful.

so my ride wasn't over just meant I should peddle more. the top temp I remember was 106 degrees after a huge fire trail mountain.

was a bloody awesome ride hitting huge anti erosion humps as jumps uphill giving throttle while going over them making me do wheelies and hearing the wheel spinning the gravel as I lifted off partially.

I really need to build another bike with super off road tyres in a smaller rim size and more amps though. Have been restudying the mid drive threads just because I dont think hubs can handle the jumps I want to do. If its another hub I am thinking 12t mac or crov3, 12t Im scared is not strong enough for constant dropping and cro too bloody heavy.

 

[izeman]

I want to keep the 2150w I got now. Will this still heat up if it were 5ah 12s?

i can't tell you presicely how much. depends on the ambient temperature as well of course. my xc bike which pully 1800w max and has a 2p setup leaves the pack hand warm after a 30min ride. so i guess 2kw WILL heat them up. but they should be able to take that without damage. just try it out, and check temps regularly.

 

[John Bozi]

Amazing ride with Newb today. :lol:

Rough as guts off road trails up the mountain, slide outs, spectacular stacks and on the way home had a wallaby (small kangaroo) fly out in front of me. Kicking myself for not charging up the gopro before.

Battery ran out @ 10.2ah so I am pretty perfectly dialed in - I knew was close when I hit 44v but the second I saw a 42 appear under load I knew I had seconds left.

I ended up pushing the bike all of about 3 metres before I rolled home.

 

[John Bozi]

Have been stalling, again. Have been thinking everyday for ages looking at different sizes combinations but my triangle just sucks.

the 6 bricks are super tight if they fit. If they don't I'm left with more batteries that don't fit well anywhere.

Currently toying with under the down tube as I have water bottle screw holes down there. I could make 300 x 120 x 120mm box for there. It would be the lowest centre of gravity you could ever get on the bike. Concerns would be constant water/dirt and possibly in the event crashing onto something, it would be in the line of fire first.

6 of these would mean I could just have all the connections at one end in something like a square aluminium tube.

Just have to look at chainring and front tyre fully suspended clearance.

 

[pendragon8000]

Can't u put 2 under down tube and 4 in triangle with controler in triangle or on top tube? Controller under and 2 bricks on top is better for electrical efficiency . short phase wires are better. I'm sus on those long packs. Maby they are better...?

 

[John Bozi]

Why doesn't anything ever go wrong with the front wheel?

Did quite a bit of jumping the last few days up the mountain on erosion protection humps on fire trails. Probably the biggest I've ever done but I didn't notice anything then. I did 3 quick trips to the shops this morning as my back pack can't take more. So maybe the extra weight on my back was enough to finally snap the spoke.

just noticed a a little ting ting ting sound and sure enough a spoke is just dangling down there. broken at the part which joins onto the hub.

I will order soon.

pain in the ass, this build I was hoping would be built strong enough but it is not as strong as the cross country bike which I thought would be the weak point.

Anyhow, this is why I didn't replace the tube and tyre, I just wanted to wait until I really needed to pull the wheel off.

Question is: Can I continue to ride the bike softly until my new spoke is installed?

Just bringing this info back to front page:

ERD 533
spoke hole 3mm
Fl width (between spokes) 50mm
flange 40mm
spoke hole to spoke hole diametre 232mm

12 gauge = 4mm spoke nipple wrench

approximately 160mm
and here is the last recorded ride (not the break) it shows the daily 30minute power ride I was doing. (Note apart from my need to upgrade to lipo I really need to drill holes in my hub to air cool it so that I can do my dream ride with out stopping and getting limited). I'd like to smash this ride into at least a 20 minute ride with more volts and less heating.

[youtube]3oUV-u-S_v0[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

Nipple is inside. More than coincidence, the spoke that broke was next to the rim join. This area was the most sticking out when truing the wheel requiring the most tension if I remember correctly. (There's another line next to the hole but that's just a scratch during installation.)

It may also be that the heads don't sit so flush, they require so much twisting and effort to sit properly and still don't quite, I'm also still suspecting that the original lacing which I copied has too much pressure spoke over spoke.

from gloworm on another thread, for the record as this is new info for me:

A 11/12 gauge means it's a butted spoke - it has a thicker section and a thinner section:

The wheel's original 12g spokes don't fit tightly through the motor's flange holes which is why people wanted thicker spokes in that area. At the threaded end, it's the same diameter as the old spokes

quoted from: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17526&p=823312#p823302
I am guessing that the extra 3mm might fit, but would like to be sure before I buy a full set because I don't want to pay for shipping on one spoke too.

 

[John Bozi]

Huge day of working on the bike at Newb's garage. about 4 hours, 3 hours longer than I thought.

Day started with a great ride where I passed about 50 cars along the way as they were all stopped at lights here and there. Then I nuked past some lycras.

I started to replace the spoke as Newb was kind enough to give me one. I was going to buy the full set till I saw that all his nipples were much too big to pass through the rim, dam because they were much tougher and thicker...

Then I had to remove a spoke to get the lost spoke past. Decided to follow his advice finally and not put undue tension on the spokes rubbing against each other. This could be one of the causes of the broken spoke as they don't sit well in the flange hole. All was going well and then pumped tyre to 50psi as I normally like it on my pump but bang, huge blast as the tUBE popped deafening us and white powder from the tube flew every where.

Newb had a replacement tUBE but this time I stuck to 30psi as that was what I thought felt right from touching...

then had huge issues with putting the wheel back together as the spacing for the brakes some how went to hell AFTER i HAD JUST PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER FOR THE SECOND TIME!!!!!

He got it all aligned somehow by playing around with the brakes which I still have no idea why they needed to change.

After that I installed the new shock upside down with the valves facing toward the seat post but just for a few mm it wouldn't fit. Then installed again upside down but with valve forward. I do lose a bit of space this way but after playing with his lipo we concluded that I can fit 6 x 6s bricks when the controller would be removed.

Now it is a decision to go 12s 15ah or 18s 10ahs (with a new controller position either below or above.)

With the new much lighter shock (felt kind of fresher or crisper), ride home was equally enjoyable flying past tons of built traffic. I swear it's faster on my bike than by car when going across town.

NOW ITS BEER TIME.

BTW finally got response from John K

All out of those ones.

If you go to a bike shop and get a Sapim or DT Swiss spoke, they come in 13G and are stronger than the 12G. You will need to use some washers under the spoke nipple to stop it from pulling through the rim. I've seen it done loads of times and it works well.

Otherwise it'll be a few months before I get more in stock.

I also don't want to go to gloworm's 11/12 as that will be even thicker and worse angles.

 

[pendragon8000]

good work man.
i sugest 18s 10ah with high c rating. you will feel the front wheel come up and love it.

 

[John Bozi]

After two of my phase wire anderson plugs melted I used some of these that my dad had lying around. They have held up over long rides. I also some how cracked another anderson plug on the discharge wires from battery to controller.

Today the bike wouldn't work so I ran to the shop to get more of these.

Can anyone tell me whether these are a bad idea? I am not sure how much current they can handle. I have just done a short ride so not sure about the long heavy discharges whether these will melt....

I am considering swapping the other anderson on the discharge as it doesn't seem to fit together perfectly.

From my limited experience anderson plugs are over rated. They wear out quickly and seem brittle.

 

[pendragon8000]

I wouldn't use them. On either. But if they are OK for phase they will definitely be OK on battery. Phase amps are more than double battery amps.
Make sure you crimp it on good and if I was you solder it to so it doesn't oxidize or come loose.
Hobby king gold plated decent ones are good . you should buy some 8mm ones or whatever.

 

[izeman]

i would not recommend these blue connectors. they are not made for high current and wear out even faster then andersons. connecting surface of those is really small as they are not 100% round and cheaply built.
i recommend xt60/90 for this or better 5.5 goldies or bigger ones.