AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor

[John Bozi]

Today is my final test of being tethered. In the past I had two bricks in the back pack and it was unnoticable. Today I neoprened 4 together and did my last trial to see if I can handle 24s1p weight on my back.

1. pick it up and put it on feels too heavy and walking to the bike feels like dam this is not a cool hobby anymore.
2. Get on the bike is like yeah its not that bad, but always feels like I'm coming back from the shops loaded with groceries.
3. Went up the mountain and did the downhill track which is much rougher after only a week because of rain and wear and tare. It didn't hurt my back as I thought it would but my wrists seemed to take more abuse on rough stuff. A lot of weight goes onto the steering.

Final thoughts.

2 is perfect
4 is too heavy
3 at 18s might be a good compromise between comfort and power.

I will look into strapping three onto the bike as a permanent thing and when a longer ride is up carry 3 on the back with the extension lead.

I am getting a bit over single tracking I think.

 

[deffx]

How come your over the single tracking?

 

[John Bozi]

deffx, I liked the other post you had on here. Good to see you are safe.

Single tracking has got too many roots, stumps, rocks and mountain bikers. Call me a p&^sy, but the vibrations don't do it for me. There are some great runs, but they are no fun when having to worry about a mountain biker around the corner.

I do love cruising out in nature.

 

[deffx]

Sorry John, I thought it sounded a bit rude when I reread it

Wish I had them awesome trails at my doorstep

Frock the mountain bikers and there opinions, there just jealous

Back to your problems, it's carrying the batteries! That's why I ended up chopping my frame

Why not pick up a old frame and chop it to experiment. Probably cost less than all those fancy bags to do. That was my point, I was trying to make.

I did the bag thing to start with but nothing was satisfactory for off road riding.

Probably visit a few local welding shops, find a guy who's interested and keen and cheap. Take some photos of "timmas" builds to show them. Do some cardboard mock ups yourself, cut the plates yourself when happy with the design and I doubt they would charge you much to weld it

I wish I had put a little bit more effort into my design

Just don't do it to your nice bike, find an old donor frame

Personally. I would keep it as small as possible, to keep it bike like, to me the phasors and rapters are too big if you want to keep the essence of cycling

Take care buddy,

 

[John Bozi]

Sorry John, I thought it sounded a bit rude when I reread it

Wish I had them awesome trails at my doorstep

Frock the mountain bikers and there opinions, there just jealous

Back to your problems, it's carrying the batteries! That's why I ended up chopping my frame

Why not pick up a old frame and chop it to experiment. Probably cost less than all those fancy bags to do. That was my point, I was trying to make.

I did the bag thing to start with but nothing was satisfactory for off road riding.

Probably visit a few local welding shops, find a guy who's interested and keen and cheap. Take some photos of "timmas" builds to show them. Do some cardboard mock ups yourself, cut the plates yourself when happy with the design and I doubt they would charge you much to weld it

I wish I had put a little bit more effort into my design

Just don't do it to your nice bike, find an old donor frame

Personally. I would keep it as small as possible, to keep it bike like, to me the phasors and rapters are too big if you want to keep the essence of cycling

Take care buddy,

Nah just sounded like you'd had a few drinks, I write like that too, reread and think - ah whatever..
I am blessed to have the trails, I have done every single track and every firetrail in this huge mountainous area. If you get over to Brizvegas = http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/down...ural_environment/mt_coottha_mtb_track_map.pdf
I rarely care what mountain bikers think. Most times I ride I am happy to discuss my bike with them, none have said get off or anything like that.
I just don't like there being so many around. Some of the parts that are really fun you have to go really slow even on a normal bike, just in case they are coming around the corner. I guess thats why some guys go up there at night. On my normal bike I came around a corner quickly and braked sliding off into the bush because a child was coming around the corner. After that I never go quickly unless I can brake to the point I can see + the point they could ride up to. All in all a lot of jogging pace.

Ah man tell me about bags. I've bought two rear bags, 1 saddle bag (used now), two abs cases (one used on old bike with headways), pvc downpipe, aluminium sheet, tool box, 4 electrical boxes. A crap load of failed attempts.

Yesterday I tried out pvc glue but wasnt happy with the bond. This is what is delaying going to 18s, I need to know I can mount it easily.

I agree with you on the ebike frames being too big. After seeing a bomber in person, I was finally 100% sure I didn't want to buy one. Looked like it handled like a motorbike and it would turn too many heads on the bike paths.

I have a donor frame. but it is small size reign 2, I couldn't be bothered building another bike unless it was going to be near perfect.

Although I keep my blog going, I'm quite tired of thinking about my bike. I've devoted over a year and don't want to think how many $K. Nearing 8....

I do like that bag however. I like the idea of being able to take it all off quickly. I wouldn't even use it all the time. I think stuffing around with 6 batteries for a quick joy ride takes away from the joy ride. I need to buy or make harnesses, then deal with them, then deal with possible bulk charging and the increased costs and dangers with that.

12s matches two chargers, the capacity matches the heat of the motor. So once I get to 100 degree - it's time for smoke, beer and a battery swap. The average speed matches pedalling speed and it looks like a bicycle (apart from the hub)

So many factors will get overly complex any other way....

 

[John Bozi]

 

[deffx]

Lolz, you finally found the perfect bag! Frock the batteries, priorities right

 

[John Bozi]

Been stuffin around for months, not being able to pull the trigger.

But have just bitten the bullet.
Paid for:
36-72V, 40A Controller with ON/OFF switch
No programming needed so can just use 12s or 18s depending on if I want to charge up the third battery or not.

also got a new throttle with a green button - because I want to give regen a go.

$80 in shipping from ebikes.ca ouch. Dam it Australia, why are we so far?

 

[pendragon8000]

That'scool man. About ttime I reckon.
You'll have to change the hall plug I think. They come with a flat black hall plug. Unlock the old round silver ones. But until you or someone can swap it you can run it sensorless. Its a bit rough trying to cruise at low speed or low power in my experience.
Regen will be good with all the hills your on. It does heat the motor a bit though.

 

[John Bozi]

That'scool man. About ttime I reckon.
You'll have to change the hall plug I think. They come with a flat black hall plug. Unlock the old round silver ones. But until you or someone can swap it you can run it sensorless. Its a bit rough trying to cruise at low speed or low power in my experience.
Regen will be good with all the hills your on. It does heat the motor a bit though.

Yeah, I got no idea what sensored or sensorless is and how I will connect the halls correctly. There is some info about infeon controllers on ebikes.ca - just have to wait to see exactly what is front of me.

It's a bit of a shame to have the regen button on the throttle side since I'd be trying to use regen and the front brake with the same hand over a throttle in serious braking conditions... anyhoo.

Just so I keep all my info in one place:

40A Sensored/Sensorless Infineon Controller

Features include:

Wide Input Voltage Range
Full Length Cable Harness
Crimpable Connectors
Dual Sensored/Sensorless Operation
Automatic Mapping of Hall Signals
Two Levels of Regenerative Braking
FWD/REV Input Wire
Integrated ON/OFF Toggle Switch
Performance MOSFETs
V2 and V3 Cycle Analyst Compatibility
Waterproof Gasket

Actual Weight (kg) 0.6600
Country of Manufacture China
Manufacturer Varied
Max Controller Voltage (V) 88
Max Battery Amps (A) 40
Battery Range (V) 36-72
Low Voltage Cutoff (V) 27
MOSFETs 12 x IRFB4110
Control Chip XC846

12cm cable length for CA, Throttle, Ebrake and FWD/REV

120cm for battery and motor leads.

Regen enabled by default.

 

[pendragon8000]

i think you should be able to cut off the wires for the new hall plug and solder the old one on from the old controller, or order a new one, or solder the ends of the wires and stick them in the new controller plug, or order a new plug to much the controller one and run it sensorless untill you get that sorted. NEWB should be able to help you. you could just hard wire it with no plug, that is, solder the wires colour matched.

 

[John Bozi]

i think you should be able to cut off the wires for the new hall plug and solder the old one on from the old controller, or order a new one, or solder the ends of the wires and stick them in the new controller plug, or order a new plug to much the controller one and run it sensorless untill you get that sorted. NEWB should be able to help you. you could just hard wire it with no plug, that is, solder the wires colour matched.

Now that I can solder easier stuff I think I will start leaning toward the hard wiring of connections. I've thought about this ages ago. When motor wheel repairs are needed so far I haven't really had to disconnect everything. Just kind of shift it out the way.

My main worry is that the colours don't match.

Obviously I will cut off all the andersons & solder the phase wires and main battery to controller to 5.5 bullets.

I actually also bought a new 3 way switch，ｉｎ　ｃａｓｅ　Ｉchange my mind, which might happen if I try to pedal with 18s...

 

[pendragon8000]

You might have to "read the frocking manual"
I think because it has auto hall mapping , if you have something wrong it just works it out, the only thing is if it goes backwards then swap 2 phase wires. (From memory) not 100% sure. You should be right to connect reds and blscks and try a combo of y,g,b just twisted together with a bit of tape. Just for a test spin up. Then solder.

 

[John Bozi]

rode up to look out, well took a different fire trail up and it was even steeper than the new one up. There is not a mid drive or powerfull motor i know of that can do that trail. pushed the bike all the way up.

the mountain road was beautiful - should have spent more time riding it.

I was hoping to get a nice panoramic shot of the bike but people just kept getting in the way. Ah well it is the a tourist point...

2 batteries on bike 2 waited to be tethered in the bag.

[youtube]VwBMpVUNk4Y[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

New stuff arrived this arvo.

1. frockers, everything was wet. By the time I had signed with the delivery guys big smile he had gone and I opened the plastic to find the wet box.

2. Wow a really wet controller which is so much smaller than my current crystalyte one, and so dam wet!

bought whiskey, started soldering power and phase - no more time than that.

need to discover how water proof she is but no time today.

will be till Sunday I think till I test 75v

 

[pendragon8000]

Very good bozi. Yeah they are small.
Good luck. They seem quite water proof. Video of your face with 75 volts first time please
Edit sorry auto correct

 

[John Bozi]

I wasted ages trying to decide where the controller go. I still can't decide where or how many batteries I will carry especially now having to consider the third one. So I cut wiring at a pretty long length. I think I'll just let them be long for the time being until I finalise the battery placements. After that I will redo all my wiring for "the last time" I bloody hope and try to eliminate redundant wiring lengths.

I knew it would be small, but it is amazing how small. It is rated at 40A I can't wait to see if it will give say 7.5A extra as my crystalyte does. Don't want to be losing any torque ... IF you have the same controller what does your ca say about max amps?

Anyhow, wish I didn't have to go to work or need to do family stuff, so I can get it all done and do the grin...

What do those hall sensors exactly do? Stop shuddering or misreading of how much gradual current to give?

 

[pendragon8000]

I described it to my mate as spinning a merry go around kids ride with your eyes closed (sensor less)
And seeing the handles is like sensored. The halls just sense north or south in 3 positions.
Its 40amp from what I see. It just gets a bit twitchy at low speed low power. I found using the throttle intermittent ly was good.

 

[John Bozi]

Thought I did everything right, plugged it in - 4 metres full torque no passenger bike went into the concrete beam.... Im doing something wrong but have learnt to hold up the rear wheel now.

 

[pendragon8000]

Re calibrate the throttle out and shunt value in the ca v3

 

[John Bozi]

I worked out its the cav3. all works without it.

Important question, can I have the bike turned on with the phase wires unplugged and the halls hardwired on?

Its really hard to hold the rear wheel up and use the cav3... i dont have another way to power it up unattached.

 

[Samd]

A six pack of lipo - I'm up for that!

Glad to hear you're still exploring your setup John.

 

[John Bozi]

A six pack of lipo - I'm up for that!

Glad to hear you're still exploring your setup John.

:lol:
forums need a like button.

I actually would consider that bag if it were cheap.

Sam can I power up the bike with the phase wires unplugged (halls plugged in)?

 

[pendragon8000]

I worked out its the cav3. all works without it.

Important question, can I have the bike turned on with the phase wires unplugged and the halls hardwired on?

Its really hard to hold the rear wheel up and use the cav3... i dont have another way to power it up unattached.

It should be ok. But it might freak out. I suggest putting a jumper wire like a paperclip in the ebrake plug on the controller.

 

[John Bozi]

didnt go the phase wire method. tied the bike up with the wheel in the air.
when started up enter set up - this stopped the motor.

BIG NOTE TO SELF (OR OTHERS FOLLOWING)

Even though you have stopped the motor in setup
and changed the throttle WOT from off to pass thru
when you exit set up the bike went full WOT again, MOMENTARILY

I was so lucky as the bike even though not on the ground lunged forward front wheel flying up over the stoppers and rear wheel almost hitting in the ground again.
So now the throttle works via the CAV3
but the regen doesn't. It all worked without the cav3...
Next study how to set up the regen.

BTW - I originally was planning to have the controller here until I got the mini frame bag that fits a lipo in frame. I don't feel happy with bouncing against the wiring or the controller corners for now.