AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor

I am going to put my current batteries on my old tank which will become my commuter to work and grocery shopping bike. Will make it 12s3p and permanently attach it to the bike.

That means I am going to buy a new set of batteries for the Penny chopper.

I can't decide on the exact pack because I am not sure about 1p2p sizes and capacity.

I am leaning towards:
Capacity(mAh) 6400
Config (s) 4
Discharge (c) 60
Weight (g) 782
Max Charge Rate (C) 2
Length-A(mm) 165
Height-B(mm) 52
Width-C(mm) 52
38506.jpg

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__52410__Turnigy_6400mAh_4S_14_8V_60C_Hardcase_Pack_Removable_Leads_AU_Warehouse_.html

the same battery comes in:

Minimum Capacity: 5600mAh
Configuration: 4S1P /14.8V/ 4Cell
Constant Discharge: 60C
Pack Weight: 662g
Pack Size: 164 x 44 x 52mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 5.5mm Bullet-Connector

Minimum Capacity: 5000mAh
Configuration: 4S1P /14.8V/ 4Cell
Constant Discharge: 60C
Pack Weight: 612g
Pack Size: 163 x 44 x 52mm
Charge Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 5.5mm Bullet-Connector

But you can get cheaper and smaller soft packs!
Why 1p? Well I can't carry 130v 2p
This relates to why a high C rate: so that I can run it 1p.
Why hardcase? If you've seen my bike, you'll know that not much fits the triangle, so that means there's a lot of battery surface area that needs protecting.
why removable leads? Three reasons: I am sick of spaghetti on the bike. I want to customise my lead lengths without worrying about damaging the batteries with heat. All the wiring takes up ridiculous amounts of space on the bike and there's more resistance.

How many to buy? That's the tough one. 1p I only need 7 to get near 130v. But to run the bike more than @ 16s 2p sometimes I need
8. 8 is comfortable for charging in two lots. But knowing me this will not be fast enough or powerful enough........
 
The bike's wiring is all over the place but decided to go up the mountain anyway to see how it handled.

Recorded in 3 pieces,

1. first time off road noticed constant power losses on each bigger bump. So I stopped the ride
[youtube]WGpVrSVEgMM[/youtube]
2. Couldn't see why so continued up the mountain with continuing power loss on each bump. But just before I was about to get over the extremely steep part, ca stopped me to say my motor was up to 125 degrees celcius. Ca is cool for that so I can focus on the terrain. Dam steep few kilometres only takes a few minutes to blow about 3 AH.
[youtube]7HHagONi8GE[/youtube]

actually didnt stall when i tried on 40 amps before but I didn't try to get right to the top... it did feel stronger at 57 amps....

im happy all the same :mrgreen:

However I do have constant cutouts i think somewhere in wiring (hope to hell not in the controller) it was very hot when the motor was very hot too...

last part

notice i bought a handle bar mount - great view...
[youtube]vC3bBjvZdUI[/youtube]

Future test rides I plan on the same terrain are to drop down to 18s to see how that will handle it - would be amazing to have regen working on such steep terrain.....
 
Every ebike rider should try higher volts without a doubt, but there's a lot to be said for 12s.

I still do runs to the shops and my parents place a lot and recently they are probably 90% of my rides.

The bike looks and rides so much stealthier with 12s2p, easier to peddle and less jerky, easier and faster and safer to charge and encourages some exercise. Top speed is about 40. Keeps me off the radar....

@ 40amps it really felt to slow and if I was to stay riding like this more often I'd probably push the amps up a bit.

If I had more frequent off road riding buddies it would be a different story but as is I am happy keeping out of trouble.
I can always strap on more or build a couple of brackets which can be easily screwdrivered on for when I am up for long ride. Or just take a back pack with a few bricks to swap over.....

think I'll go for a quick spin up a bit off road to see how it handles... lighter and if power cuts continue...
 
so finally tried what blew my last controller. It was at night so wasn't too confident but did have a few stretches of wot.

Yeah from zero to 60 up a hill it just keeps powering. At up to about 20kmh you've got to be careful or the front pops up. Scary jerky riding. Fun for a spin but realistically it's a pain to wire and charge.... Too many chances of hooking up the wrong way and blasting myself....

will be going back to 12s2p until I have some steep off road buddies again....

Need to study how bad it is to run low voltage like this with high voltage fets.
 
Please let me know what you find about running low voltages on that controller. I asked Lyen but he never responded.
 
I heard there is something about inefficiencies from them turning on and off again due to step down, also this could wear them.... having said this my controller has a multi volt plug, unconnected for high voltage and connected for 12s and below. It seems to work well, but it's such a large controller for riding at 12s but for now I cant find one that suits my experimental nature any better.

crystalyte says maximum current for the 4065 is 60amps and the controller is safest not passing that either. Looks like my bike will be staying somewhere between 2.5 - 4kw. Last night I saw over 5kw accelerating up a hill, but there's no chance to exercise like this and holding the throttle at a fraction of a twist is annoying worrying that you might pull more and flip it...

I plan to fit 4 6s in the triangle and it can happen with some aluminium work which Im starting soon. I see 12s2p as my day to day set up. Then I can use the way I had them 12s at steer tube and 12s under the nose of the seat for when the boys come over for a ride up the mountain....
 
Just to narrow down my power cuts I thought Id back pack 24s1p and the cuts reduced but still continued.

Funny not having the bats on the bike the front kicked up even more over each hump. bike looks cool with no bats though. really stealth.

BLOODY CONTROLLER GOT HOT AS HELL just on a quarter of I would do usually at lower voltages. As a result, I can conclude that higher voltages will not solve anything, if anything they may just melt my controller even though it is made with 150v fets.

I am thinking the only solution for my MOUNTAIN CLIMBING is a mid drive.

AFT sounds good.

This bike will be my all purpose bike but not excellent at anything.

Funny that I had done tethered before and felt 18s1p was too heavy and now 24s1p I don't find it too heavy....

Yeah this is just a trial of the voltage and yes the batteries warmed up again as when I ran 1p in the past. Question to ask is if I like this would the max c rating suffice at 1p?

40amps at 25c bats was bad but 2p = 50c there was no heating ever.
 
hi john
i am thinking of buying the same motor as u have.
but i want my bike to accelerate verry fast. and have a max speed of +-60kmh
i am going to run 72v max.
is this the motor that is good for me?
becouse i don't have a huge budget.

and it won't wheely with my bike becouse i will have 72v 20ah lifepo4. (stealth bomber type bike)

thanks louis
 
louis raaijmakers said:
hi john
i am thinking of buying the same motor as u have.
but i want my bike to accelerate verry fast. and have a max speed of +-60kmh
i am going to run 72v max.
is this the motor that is good for me?
becouse i don't have a huge budget.

and it won't wheely with my bike becouse i will have 72v 20ah lifepo4. (stealth bomber type bike)

thanks louis
Click to expand...

Hey mate,

depends on the wheel size and tyres and terrain you run but as advertised on crystalyte 4065 = 65kmh @ 72v.

I was hitting over 70kmh on long flat bitumen with my beloved hookworms (scared to let it go faster)
accelerate fast depends on what you are used to aswell. acceleration was fast enough for me at 26" wheels, but with a 20" wheel it takes off even faster and doesn't bog down as quick on long steep stuff.

Your other option is a cromotor... I dont really want even heavier so 4065 is the way for me, cant find a better dd...

make sure you check to get the torque version not the high speed version if they still make two.

My first commute on the old tank today

40 minutes one way to work 12s2p super sore ass on the HTail.
35 mins back.

Kept it 90% of the time at high speed pedalling cadence so about 28kmh I guess. Naked riding with no ca, just trying to hear for cell monitors beeping. got home on 3.7v a cell so I pedalled a bit harder than I will next time until I get my distances perfect. I'll be able to let rip a bit longer.

Or I could go and start soldering crap loads of 3p 5.5 plugs, to power it more and shorten the tripppp, was good exercise at 12s - just the perfect amount - not enough to kill me but enough to break a sweat.
 
thank you john,
i live in the netherlands and it is verry flat and we don't have mountains.
so it think this is the motor i want becouse it has more torque than a 4080.

thanks louis
 
Louis Note with the motor if you run it hot you'll want to change the anderson plugs - well mine melted in the middle of a super heat wave 40 degrees celcius once and now this!

Problems again!
I just went from being ecstatic to being depressed in minutes.

madmanebikes.com was RIGHT ABOUT DISCONNECTING THE CA = no power cuts on firetrail humps and jumps.!!!

but

suddenly as im flying along after riding aggresively over jumps with a bit of air - not straight away but about 20 metres after the last bit of jumping sudden

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr motor sound bit like when my phase wires melted and shorted and another time they melted the andersons.

looked at the phase 5.5s and they are fine, totally separate with heat shrink even between each....

I was at the end of my votage 12s 41v on the way home so not sure if that drop in voltage is causing it?

inside the motor through the holes cant see anything. i wasnt riding extrememly hot either....

what do you reckon?

got a multimeter from dad,
from ebikes.ca trouble shoot guide:
As you turn the wheel slowly backwards you should see the voltage continually switch between 0V and 5V (if you turn a geared motor like an eZee forwards the halls won’t change because the motor freewheels in that direction). When you stop turning the wheel the voltage for each hall sensor will be sat at either 0V or 5V. If one of the hall’s voltage doesn’t switch then you either have an issue with the wiring for that hall or an issue with the actual hall itself. Also, if you spin the wheel too fast you will see a steady 2.5V which is just the average between 0V and 5V.
Click to expand...

blue is good but yellow and green are not switching.
 
wholly crapolla - not sure if this is significant but when I did the hall test on ebikes.ca I didn't think that green to motor is blue to controller and blue to motor is green to controller (lyen / crystalyte colour matching of halls.) as I complete my first sensor repair jigging about on the wires the blue (only supposedly good sensor) had a wire snap off! I want to cry I am going sensorless frock it! Im so shit at soldering

had try a few times to get the third wire on the yellow signal sensor because the heat shrink has a much shorter area for a sleeve and just kept shrinking on me now its exposed too at the top, feel pissed.
 
I suck at soldering too I actually cut my wires down and soldered them recently to reduce the clutter. I hope they hold. The heat shrink shrinked on me while I was soldering. So I said forget the shrink and just used electrical tape for now. Heat shrink looks better though so will go back at some point and do it right.
 
yeah exactly what happened to me - solution will be to cut back the heat shrink on pos neg wires and reshrink that also later that way ill have more sleeve to push further back.....

its a bloody mess

[youtube]c5GjwRYqiec[/youtube]

This failure as you know has peaked my interest in the AFT.

I cant explain how ecstatic I was when bike finally stopped having power cuts and I was just hammering around on the tracks like a mad man. Only to be left bikeless again.... I am easily depressed....

If you are flying over a jump do you have to release throttle on aft?
 
even though both my bikes are for sale somewhere deep on the es for sale pages, having two bikes is a must. I think we've all learnt that ebikes are not reliable enough to rely one to get things done.

my old hardtail is an ugly rough ride, but getting to work on it on non rainy days is still faster and more fun than the bus and walking.

The offroad bike gets pushed to the limits and always fails somewhere so yeah I'm thinking of building my third bike with the hub if I can bite the bullet on the aft. I have approval for the cost from the family

I just dont know if I'm going to like that sound, or the people around me on the trails that would know Im there even if they cant see me.

I bought a 3 jaw puller to get the bearings off which stayed on the axle without the side covers! pulled the bearings off but damaged them so I need to buy more.

Having 4 back up at all times are must, two to put on and two if one of them is a dud or gets damaged on install or opening the hub...
 
because I bought those 2 x 3s for the 21s I was trying to achieve with the last controller I have the chance to try an odd voltage today.

15s is fucken awesome amount of voltage. Obviously if you arent limited by controller or anything else then it makes no sense but for me it felt like an awesome ridable volatege.'

Basically it felt like my low voltage cut off is the same as my old headways hot off the charge. 60-52v is sweet when youve got almost 60amps. its between 3k-2.5 lovelly but this is a futile post because for the od charging pattern you could do 18s and thats whats about.

so with thee lyen controller a waste of time.
 
Had an on road ride on the mountains with a guy with the same stock wheel I bought.

He was on 24s 80amp lipo bms system, I was on 21s 57amps.

We didn't race to do tests.

He kept up with me anywhere I went and at whatever speed however, he used about double the amp hours, his motor and controller were about twice as hot at the end also. On short bursts from slow speeds up a hill it seemed I would accelerate away faster too.

So yeah I'm happy. I only put on all my batteries to be a more suitable match, but for around the suburb riding I find 21s overkill and jerky.

The 21s at lunch felt insane compared the 15s I was happy with riding in the morning.
 
Thanks http://www.madmanebikes.comfor setting my controller again.
file.php

ampmax about 62amps, regen works in a sweeter middle zone too and at 21s now.

Very happy - ripped it up from the base to the summit of Mt Cootha lookout with no overheating full wot all the way, to channel 10. :p

Unfortunately camera ran out of battery just on the best part of the ride....
[youtube]vwCXmqig-Ao[/youtube]
 
40 minute off road spin no camera just fun.

15km 23 kmh average, 65 kmh max, 13% regen.

numbers mean nothing.

all down hill is regen max possible, all slight downhill is pedalling speed 25kmh 32t - 8t back, all up hill was agressive attack = huge watt pulls. overheating was approaching each mountain climb but just hammered it and then went back to the pedal mode as mentioned first.

So how does it feel? It's a motor bike on a bicycle. I have to pull back gently or the front kicks up and I accelerate with out steering toward a tree.

Uphill is the most extreme and its full WOT the rear is bouncing about a bit and still having power cuts but much less than before but more noticable because you have to lean so far forward to adjust to the shit loads of torque. As you can tell a cut when your leaning is very uncomfortable forward motion, so I have to sort this. I think I may have had this issue from the start of offroading but it was never a noticable problem until now when 4000-5000 watts is either on or off.

usually at the first pull.....

not sure but the ride blew my brains and couldnt believe i had half the battery left.

Scratching my head about AFt being able to provide this ride.
 
1. Must try to glue down the hall wires better = the black ones are actually touching the side cover. Should be easy to do through the vent holes :mrgreen:

2. I went to try out some hills I have never conquered, and still can't conquer them. Before I had traction and the motor stalling not having enough amps, but now I have enough amps but the front kicks up before I can get momentum and losing traction again. I mean this is seriously steep stuff with no chance of a run up as it big rocks and ruts and roots....

It kind of dissapointed me to see that I have reached the limits of the bike. I was running millions of ideas about how to get more hill climbing gearing: rewinding a second hand motor, putting a huge sprocket on the back, but fundamentally I just can't get traction and the bike geometry doesn't help.

I think the front wheel were also 20" in would be better but I don't think the traction issue will go away so I think it's time to stop focussing on climbing stuff ebikes just can't.

Apart from a smaller front wheel, if I can move as much of the battery as close to the front as possible and lower the better. It would help weigh down the front.

More voltage doesn't seem to be helping much but provide more battery and distances. I think I will be dropping down in voltage for my next battery set.

Currently I pull 60kmh up on road hot off the charge. Really don't need that, as it puts me on the radar.
 
So john, is it time to go mid drive :p
With your enthusiasm for the project, there's no doubts you'll wind up with a mountain goat that can still sprint!
 
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