pendragon8000
100 kW
Looks like a fun detour . more air please.John Bozi said:
AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor
- Thread starter John Bozi
- Start date
John Bozi
100 kW
(more air till bust spokes or rim pendragon)
I have spent the last few days like a mad man trying all options of fitting these 6 lipos into my triangle. I am honestly not happy with any option. I know I can fit them, but not with enough padding that I would be comfortable to have lipo bouncing around without.
The dimensions listed don't take into account wires which are at minimum a centimetre thicker where ever they appear.
The shape to get around the shock valves becomes incredibly complex and tight. It's not a basic triangle which will male aluminium folding a super pain.
I've been trying day after day until I get such a bloody headache I give up....
No point in starting any wiring until I can work out which way the batteries will be facing.
I have spent the last few days like a mad man trying all options of fitting these 6 lipos into my triangle. I am honestly not happy with any option. I know I can fit them, but not with enough padding that I would be comfortable to have lipo bouncing around without.
The dimensions listed don't take into account wires which are at minimum a centimetre thicker where ever they appear.
The shape to get around the shock valves becomes incredibly complex and tight. It's not a basic triangle which will male aluminium folding a super pain.
I've been trying day after day until I get such a bloody headache I give up....
No point in starting any wiring until I can work out which way the batteries will be facing.
pendragon8000
100 kW
Can't you just put 2 blocks on the top tube or straddling the top tube in one of those little bags.
IMO u don't need heaps of padding as such. A solid shell that holds it all tight will work well on a dual suspension bike.
IMO u don't need heaps of padding as such. A solid shell that holds it all tight will work well on a dual suspension bike.
John Bozi
100 kW
pend yes there are out the triangle options.
Ive spent time looking at tubing extrusions.
I like this one
http://gjames.com/__data/sections/940/940160.pdf
It should fit two side by side inside it, I could just do the whole lot above the top tube from seat post to steer tube one tube.
prefer it under the down tube but would have to give a few cm of suspension.
Ive spent time looking at tubing extrusions.
I like this one
http://gjames.com/__data/sections/940/940160.pdf
It should fit two side by side inside it, I could just do the whole lot above the top tube from seat post to steer tube one tube.
prefer it under the down tube but would have to give a few cm of suspension.
John Bozi
100 kW
forget extruded aluminium, these companies want you to buy 6 metres or 50kgs of the stuff.
Yesterday I went to bunnings bought some pvc 100mmx65mm - unfortunately, my batteries I bought not for this narrow space, but for the dimensions of the triangle so now they dont fit the pvc either for just a few mm because of the bloody rounded corners.
Got some nice propellor plate there 1.2mm. to make a kind of tray for the top tube. (sad that after all this $ I can't get off the top tube...)
I'm currently looking at cutting off one side of the cornered parts and then pvc primer and gluing two bits together to fit them snug. Hopefully the casing / bracket will be under 140mm wide x 80mm high. Not sure how the 140 part will feel under the seat against my leg. My current box is forward enough so that I don't feel it unless I am pedalling.
What happens if a battery is not allowed to swell?
Yesterday I went to bunnings bought some pvc 100mmx65mm - unfortunately, my batteries I bought not for this narrow space, but for the dimensions of the triangle so now they dont fit the pvc either for just a few mm because of the bloody rounded corners.
Got some nice propellor plate there 1.2mm. to make a kind of tray for the top tube. (sad that after all this $ I can't get off the top tube...)
I'm currently looking at cutting off one side of the cornered parts and then pvc primer and gluing two bits together to fit them snug. Hopefully the casing / bracket will be under 140mm wide x 80mm high. Not sure how the 140 part will feel under the seat against my leg. My current box is forward enough so that I don't feel it unless I am pedalling.
What happens if a battery is not allowed to swell?
John Bozi
100 kW
phase wires starting to fail again, started melting and after an hour and a half of riding, heading up slow single trail the same grrrrrrrrrrrr sound.
Pushed the bike to the firetrail and gave it full throttle home. No Problems.
Was a great ride, here's the first half of it (No problems)
[youtube]zNHvIfzWskg[/youtube]
Pushed the bike to the firetrail and gave it full throttle home. No Problems.
Was a great ride, here's the first half of it (No problems)
[youtube]zNHvIfzWskg[/youtube]
pendragon8000
100 kW
you can morph the pvc with heat from a hair dryer or maby hot water.
if you havent seen this, froth over the dual suspension electric concentric
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22560&start=125
keep up the good work mate
if you havent seen this, froth over the dual suspension electric concentric
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22560&start=125
keep up the good work mate
John Bozi
100 kW
Finally going to listen to Pendragon and go into Jaycar today.
will probably get this soldering iron kit. 20/130 (i think its the same one as aussie jester is using http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1651
[youtube]clIesCK1MsQ[/youtube]
does the solder and iron look right for doing 5.5 gold bullets?
I'm planning to take in a couple of lipo and look at a hundred or so enclosures they have to see if anything fits perfectly, if not will have to do the aluminium bending thing.
anything else I should get while im there? im thinking side cutters and a stand.
Im not sure what solder %%%
will probably get this soldering iron kit. 20/130 (i think its the same one as aussie jester is using http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1651
[youtube]clIesCK1MsQ[/youtube]
does the solder and iron look right for doing 5.5 gold bullets?
I'm planning to take in a couple of lipo and look at a hundred or so enclosures they have to see if anything fits perfectly, if not will have to do the aluminium bending thing.
anything else I should get while im there? im thinking side cutters and a stand.
Im not sure what solder %%%
izeman
1 GW
130w is a MASSIVE soldering iron for small electronics. 80w are good enough to solder awg10 wires. so 130w will be doing a pretty easy job 
soldering these big bullets requires a wider tip. there are pencil style ones and flat ones. you would use a flat on for that as the have a bigger surface to transfer heat.
soldering these big bullets requires a wider tip. there are pencil style ones and flat ones. you would use a flat on for that as the have a bigger surface to transfer heat.
pendragon8000
100 kW
yes +1izeman said:130w is a MASSIVE soldering iron for small electronics. 80w are good enough to solder awg10 wires. so 130w will be doing a pretty easy job
John Bozi
100 kW
oh well, I didn't really expect I'd get a reply in time before I went to the shop. On fb ES they also said 130w is too much. There was only one 80 watt iron @ jaycar, and it had a really fat tip, which I thought wouldn't be able to get inside bullet cup, so I bought the 20/130w as in the video above.
It is not really 130 which is confusing anyway. It is 130 only at turning on the power to get it up to heat, then it must be 20w? It has a turbo button which is recommended to be used for 10 seconds and never over 30 seconds to get it up to 80w.
I really thought 3 of these would fit in the triangle as they were the closest dimension enclosures I could find. (wasted more money!)
the black part is solid steel, the grey is thin aluminium (too weak ). so I would have to mount them upside down, steel onto bike frame... wiring still needs to come out of these at the thin aluminium part. easy to cut and bend back a bit
It is not really 130 which is confusing anyway. It is 130 only at turning on the power to get it up to heat, then it must be 20w? It has a turbo button which is recommended to be used for 10 seconds and never over 30 seconds to get it up to 80w.
I really thought 3 of these would fit in the triangle as they were the closest dimension enclosures I could find. (wasted more money!)
the black part is solid steel, the grey is thin aluminium (too weak ). so I would have to mount them upside down, steel onto bike frame... wiring still needs to come out of these at the thin aluminium part. easy to cut and bend back a bit
pendragon8000
100 kW
if you have your receipt you can take it back. tey have a very good return policy. im prety sure they will give you your money back. or if not get some lights for you bike and house. there's plenty of goodies there that wold be usefull.John Bozi said:oh well, I didn't really expect I'd get a reply in time before I went to the shop. On fb ES they also said 130w is too much. There was only one 80 watt iron @ jaycar, and it had a really fat tip, which I thought wouldn't be able to get inside bullet cup, so I bought the 20/130w as in the video above.
It is not really 130 which is confusing anyway. It is 130 only at turning on the power to get it up to heat, then it must be 20w? It has a turbo button which is recommended to be used for 10 seconds and never over 30 seconds to get it up to 80w.
I really thought 3 of these would fit in the triangle as they were the closest dimension enclosures I could find. (wasted more money!)
the black part is solid steel, the grey is thin aluminium (too weak ). so I would have to mount them upside down, steel onto bike frame... wiring still needs to come out of these at the thin aluminium part. easy to cut and bend back a bit
John Bozi
100 kW
Wow massive day.
In the morning, I prepared snipped off the blue terminals and remaining anderson plug off the phase wires. The remaining anderson was still melting. Note to other newbies, andersons aren't as good as the hype around them. (IMHO) I like their housing, but not their contact and hold together. The whole kit from E-mtb is all crimped, no solder. Newb can testify to the no solder too as he changed one of the discharge ones too.
Anyway, I nervously did my first soldering of the phase terminals. The few that I did would be 7/10. Thanks to Newb he pulled them off and redid them and now I know how to do them properly to be 10/10. I bought more heat shrink in various colours from Jaycar to match the wires.
After we went for a short ride and maybe I am dreaming but the bike felt a bit quicker.
Newb used my new icharger and power supply to charge at 10 amps via the aligator clips that come with the icharger. (I have to make proper ones still) - so that works well.
We planned to charge fully and go out for another longer ride but a huge thunderstorm came over, so Newb like a champ also swapped my battery discharge wires over to 5.5 bullets.
After the roads had dried a bit I followed him half way home, and I am pretty sure the bike is feeling punchier.
Heaps of jobs for me to do now. My head spins which way to head. In no order of importance:
* temporarily try out my lipo in a simple 1p = red to black on the batteries and red to black to the controller. See if that bike case will hold them if I cut it for the wiring to spill out.
* put bullets to the controller on my other bike, so I can eventually shift the headway pack onto it.
* obviously build battery case for lipos / shift the controller.
It was such a big day of learning I couldn't take in more info. I do still have lots more questions about the lipos.
As australian warehouse is out of the lvc alarm monitors, I don't have any...
Can I use the battery medic connected while the batteries are in use?
If I set my CAV3 to lipo will I lose all my settings for lifepo4?
What are the settings to set for the lipo on the CAv3?
The maximum charge rate is "2", so can I safely charge 1 5.8ah brick at 10 amps?
In the morning, I prepared snipped off the blue terminals and remaining anderson plug off the phase wires. The remaining anderson was still melting. Note to other newbies, andersons aren't as good as the hype around them. (IMHO) I like their housing, but not their contact and hold together. The whole kit from E-mtb is all crimped, no solder. Newb can testify to the no solder too as he changed one of the discharge ones too.
Anyway, I nervously did my first soldering of the phase terminals. The few that I did would be 7/10. Thanks to Newb he pulled them off and redid them and now I know how to do them properly to be 10/10. I bought more heat shrink in various colours from Jaycar to match the wires.
After we went for a short ride and maybe I am dreaming but the bike felt a bit quicker.
Newb used my new icharger and power supply to charge at 10 amps via the aligator clips that come with the icharger. (I have to make proper ones still) - so that works well.
We planned to charge fully and go out for another longer ride but a huge thunderstorm came over, so Newb like a champ also swapped my battery discharge wires over to 5.5 bullets.
After the roads had dried a bit I followed him half way home, and I am pretty sure the bike is feeling punchier.
Heaps of jobs for me to do now. My head spins which way to head. In no order of importance:
* temporarily try out my lipo in a simple 1p = red to black on the batteries and red to black to the controller. See if that bike case will hold them if I cut it for the wiring to spill out.
* put bullets to the controller on my other bike, so I can eventually shift the headway pack onto it.
* obviously build battery case for lipos / shift the controller.
It was such a big day of learning I couldn't take in more info. I do still have lots more questions about the lipos.
As australian warehouse is out of the lvc alarm monitors, I don't have any...
Can I use the battery medic connected while the batteries are in use?
If I set my CAV3 to lipo will I lose all my settings for lifepo4?
What are the settings to set for the lipo on the CAv3?
The maximum charge rate is "2", so can I safely charge 1 5.8ah brick at 10 amps?
izeman
1 GW
battery medics may stay connected during use.
you can have more than one battery profile within the cav3.
yes you can charge a 2c 5800 lipo with 10a.
you can have more than one battery profile within the cav3.
yes you can charge a 2c 5800 lipo with 10a.
John Bozi
100 kW
Thanks izeman.
Did my temporary maiden voyage with 12s 1p. Dam, not much time to report, family calls just as I'm writing.
In short, it's not a fair comparison: 16s 10AH Headway to 12s 5.8AH lipo. But just to say the headway is better for this comparison. The lipo sagged quickly losing voltage, In about 2ah I was down to 45v and top speed matches - not being able to get to my 50-53 kmh topspeed at all.
The other thing to note is I will have to work out a precharge solution. I didn't have trouble with the andersons. Only after one spark, at the end of the ride when I pulled the plugs off it was noticably black where it had happened inside the bit of heat shrink which is the second layer of heat shrink functioning as a extra partition between red and black terminals.
Again it is not a fair comparison as 2p would be much truer. One thing for sure is the tiny little pack at the front is super stealth and was strong enough to carry around the 10ah box, so when I remove the headway pack I think I will notice lots better handling. I'm in two minds about it all.
1. top speed loss is not such a big deal when I can peddle much better leg clearance and weight drop.
2. 18s beckons.
Did my temporary maiden voyage with 12s 1p. Dam, not much time to report, family calls just as I'm writing.
In short, it's not a fair comparison: 16s 10AH Headway to 12s 5.8AH lipo. But just to say the headway is better for this comparison. The lipo sagged quickly losing voltage, In about 2ah I was down to 45v and top speed matches - not being able to get to my 50-53 kmh topspeed at all.
The other thing to note is I will have to work out a precharge solution. I didn't have trouble with the andersons. Only after one spark, at the end of the ride when I pulled the plugs off it was noticably black where it had happened inside the bit of heat shrink which is the second layer of heat shrink functioning as a extra partition between red and black terminals.
Again it is not a fair comparison as 2p would be much truer. One thing for sure is the tiny little pack at the front is super stealth and was strong enough to carry around the 10ah box, so when I remove the headway pack I think I will notice lots better handling. I'm in two minds about it all.
1. top speed loss is not such a big deal when I can peddle much better leg clearance and weight drop.
2. 18s beckons.
John Bozi
100 kW
booze and electrics dont mix.
u think itd be obvious - 6s charger - so u have to parallel charge any more than one battery.
nope - loss of reason - dumb fool I can be - oh look paralel leads two batteries - connect them all up
stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant charge in series... der
melted balance plug -thank god not connected to charger.
so there i learnt something new, but not enough to call it a day.
I concentrated like hell, for hours being super precautious. Just about to leave for a ride and only have one last connection to make.
take a guess?
wiring under the bike red to black
ouch
so let's see, 3 batteries need repairs. two bullets and one balance plug. Not bad effort?
can't even wipe my ass
u think itd be obvious - 6s charger - so u have to parallel charge any more than one battery.
nope - loss of reason - dumb fool I can be - oh look paralel leads two batteries - connect them all up
stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant charge in series... der
melted balance plug -thank god not connected to charger.
so there i learnt something new, but not enough to call it a day.
I concentrated like hell, for hours being super precautious. Just about to leave for a ride and only have one last connection to make.
take a guess?
wiring under the bike red to black
ouch
so let's see, 3 batteries need repairs. two bullets and one balance plug. Not bad effort?
can't even wipe my ass
pendragon8000
100 kW
Brutal KFF (Kentucky fried fingers) I feel sorry for you man.
All the best mate.
All the best mate.
deffx
100 W
Ouch. That looks bad. Allot of bandages there.
Done something similar drunk. Like you I was taking care but the booze fogged my thinking. luckily no kff
You need to make it fool proof. Color coding, labels or different connectors
It's amazing that the connectors just vaporize
I am still paranoid even when I know it's all correct and wear my MTB gloves usually when connecting it all up
I'm a bit over rc lipo and looking for a more convenient battery, or a BMS board solution/rebuild my packs into one. so no need to unplug stuff to charge
Hoping you heal up quickly
Done something similar drunk. Like you I was taking care but the booze fogged my thinking. luckily no kff
You need to make it fool proof. Color coding, labels or different connectors
It's amazing that the connectors just vaporize
I am still paranoid even when I know it's all correct and wear my MTB gloves usually when connecting it all up
I'm a bit over rc lipo and looking for a more convenient battery, or a BMS board solution/rebuild my packs into one. so no need to unplug stuff to charge
Hoping you heal up quickly
John Bozi
100 kW
seems to be healing quickly, the flamovin cream @ hospital worked well for first night. Not much stingy after 5 hours or so. Gp gave anti biotics & anti inflammatories - dont like taking them with booze. :lol:
only half bandaged next day and really its only blistered in about 4 places, general redness everywhere else. Sheesh I remember stacking it in Thailand going slow but the gravel and bitumen took off tons of skin = much worse than this fry.
Deffx I hear i about the finding a way to simplify things.
It is one of my priorities once I get my extension leads made. Far out:
1. Carefully unplug wire one, then put a cover on it.
2. Carefully unplug wire two, then put a cover on it.
3. Unstrap velcro 1
4. Unstrap velcro 2
5. Unzip sidecase 1
6. feed wire one out
7. put cover on it
8 feed wire two out
9 put cover on it
10 put battery one near charger
11, 12,13, 14, 15, 16 = repeat for battery two as for battery one.
17 plug in balance lead into charger
18 pull back cover for red lead
19 aligator clip it to charger lead
20 (start to dred arcing) 21 repeat for black lead
22 plug power supply into wall
23 turn on power
24 turn on power supply
25 press to start balance charge
26 press to see how out the cells are.
27 28 29 30 -40 keep checking on cells etc (might feel safer further down the line - as the charger has various built in limits.
41 turn off power supply
42 turn off wall power
43 unplug from wall
44 -50 unplug battery
50-70 repeat for battery two
70-100 put everything back into the case and onto the bike
about 100 steps to go down to the shops and back.
Here's my previous headway set up
1. connect charging wires via andersons
2. press power on wall
go upstairs fall asleep - whatever
3. turn off power
4. unplug andersons
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
100 to 4....
I need to simplify this!
only half bandaged next day and really its only blistered in about 4 places, general redness everywhere else. Sheesh I remember stacking it in Thailand going slow but the gravel and bitumen took off tons of skin = much worse than this fry.
Deffx I hear i about the finding a way to simplify things.
It is one of my priorities once I get my extension leads made. Far out:
1. Carefully unplug wire one, then put a cover on it.
2. Carefully unplug wire two, then put a cover on it.
3. Unstrap velcro 1
4. Unstrap velcro 2
5. Unzip sidecase 1
6. feed wire one out
7. put cover on it
8 feed wire two out
9 put cover on it
10 put battery one near charger
11, 12,13, 14, 15, 16 = repeat for battery two as for battery one.
17 plug in balance lead into charger
18 pull back cover for red lead
19 aligator clip it to charger lead
20 (start to dred arcing) 21 repeat for black lead
22 plug power supply into wall
23 turn on power
24 turn on power supply
25 press to start balance charge
26 press to see how out the cells are.
27 28 29 30 -40 keep checking on cells etc (might feel safer further down the line - as the charger has various built in limits.
41 turn off power supply
42 turn off wall power
43 unplug from wall
44 -50 unplug battery
50-70 repeat for battery two
70-100 put everything back into the case and onto the bike
about 100 steps to go down to the shops and back.
Here's my previous headway set up
1. connect charging wires via andersons
2. press power on wall
go upstairs fall asleep - whatever
3. turn off power
4. unplug andersons
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
100 to 4....
I need to simplify this!
deffx
100 W
Not exactly sure how you made your harness or what connection you were trying to make at the time. But you maybe able to orientate the bullets at certain connections that neg can't plug into positive ie both male
Or use xt90's
I'll try to post up a picture of how i made my parallel harness later. it has helped simplify things. I use 4mm bullets which are connected together though
Or use xt90's
I'll try to post up a picture of how i made my parallel harness later. it has helped simplify things. I use 4mm bullets which are connected together though
John Bozi
100 kW
deffx said:
temporarily or indefinitely 12s 1p red to black and then red to controller red and black to controller black
no harness
pendragon8000
100 kW
That method is too sketchy for me but Kepler uses that method.
If your confident it could be OK I guess.
Deffx has the right idea I think.
If your confident it could be OK I guess.
Deffx has the right idea I think.
John Bozi
100 kW
Why is it sketchy?
John Bozi
100 kW
Reason for Return: ITEM(S) DEFECTIVE(Whole item)
Discription: one of the 6 batteries i bought when i got it, was a volt lower. I finally got my power supply to really test it (not just with battery medic) and it took 5 hours to charge. Then I used it once and the other 5 cells were around 3.75 but the same bad cell was 1.9 that's 2 volts off and very dangerous, please give me a replacement. I can ship this back but I am scared to keep it near my house.
Action Requested: Send a new replacement back
Discription: one of the 6 batteries i bought when i got it, was a volt lower. I finally got my power supply to really test it (not just with battery medic) and it took 5 hours to charge. Then I used it once and the other 5 cells were around 3.75 but the same bad cell was 1.9 that's 2 volts off and very dangerous, please give me a replacement. I can ship this back but I am scared to keep it near my house.
Action Requested: Send a new replacement back
John Bozi
100 kW
surprised the customer service @ hk is so good.
They will ship a replacement battery.
Question is what to do with the sick battery?
It was hot and puffed battery medic said 1.8 the others were all normal 3.85, the other battery was also around 3.85.
today it is still looking puffed, not hot, some how 2.9.
the medic is far from correct. the icharger didn't show the sick battery voltage was out of the ordinary the other day. Im scared to put it on the charger to see a second opinion.
I dont want it to go up in flames with the charger and whatever else near the house.
WHAT DO I DO WITH THIS BATTERY?
(it's on a bbq plate with bbq lid over it on the grass far from the house, but can't stay there too long as it could rain...) Im scared to transport it...
They will ship a replacement battery.
Question is what to do with the sick battery?
It was hot and puffed battery medic said 1.8 the others were all normal 3.85, the other battery was also around 3.85.
today it is still looking puffed, not hot, some how 2.9.
the medic is far from correct. the icharger didn't show the sick battery voltage was out of the ordinary the other day. Im scared to put it on the charger to see a second opinion.
I dont want it to go up in flames with the charger and whatever else near the house.
WHAT DO I DO WITH THIS BATTERY?
(it's on a bbq plate with bbq lid over it on the grass far from the house, but can't stay there too long as it could rain...) Im scared to transport it...
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