Amberwolf's Music Studio Technical Stuff

[amberwolf]

Would like to listen, but there's nothing there.

View attachment 355281

Must've been a glitch when you tried; it was working before and it's working now. (or else there's something between you and the server keeping you away from it).

There's also all the other stuff still on the main Amberwolf page.

Amberwolf

Music: it's not just a part of me... Though I am many things, music plays in my mind always.

amberwolf.bandcamp.com

I sometimes very much like what this freebie does to electric guitars, when you hit the "Random" button - this can wreck your speakers, best not try with your elderly but cool Acoustic Research. I've yet to refoam my AR38Ss, because it's all to easy to mess that up.

Those look like the "big brothers" of the 18's I've got, that also need refoaming. These days I've been using a thriftstore find Vizio SB2920 soundbar, to try to mix for a sound that will "fit" more people's speakers***, and because it was easy to mount to the top of the monitor on the swingarm over the bed (the powered partners are way too heavy for that).

https://jeremyevers.com/atlantis/

If there's risk of equipment damage, I'll stay away, but thanks.

Also...****


These days I use Shred by AcmeBarGig most of the time, or build a rack manually within the effects bin of the track with individual separate effects if I have a very specific chain in mind.

Primarily on synths, but sometimes on the real guitars, I also use BiFilter2, especially when I need to modulate within a track as it responds better to automation for this purpose than most of the others (and doesn't crash while doing that, which can happen with Shred).

Used to use LittleGreenAmp a lot, but it crashes projects on opening sometimes, forcing me to load them in safemode and delete LGA out of the project, save it as a new file, and then readd it back in and reset the parameters, then save as another new file.

Long time back I used NI's guitar suite (the lite version that came with SONAR, then the really cheap upgrade they offered to the full version at the time) but their copy protection is retarded and breaks not only projects and even SONAR, but can even cause the whole computer to crash BSOD and even be impossible to startup normally until it's removed, and NI's solution is always to buy the upgraded version of whatever software they have, which isn't going to happen since a websearch shows that this wouldn't fix the problems either--they just never seem to do anything about the problems that CP creates. (I've even tried using their Kontakt Player for some of the free sounds out there, and the player itself, even with nothing loaded, can crash, just disappearing POOF! so I instead use the DecentSampler versions where they exist).

Before that I used a guitar rack called ReValver that came with a very early SONAR version, but it was very buggy and primitive.


Sometimes when I am just noodling around and dont' want to setup the stuff in the computer, or deal with the inherent latency/delays of that, I will use hardware effects like the tiny little CubeBaby. It's very limited but works for this kind of thing where I don't need exact settings ability, etc. (mostly I need those on delay timings to match song tempos, or chorus, flanger or phaser rates for the same kind of thing, etc).




Nowadays, besides my everpresent sleep deprivation, my worst limitation (besides my physical inability to coordinate my body well enough to truly play any of my instruments live) is that my tinnitus is getting so bad it's really hard to hear many things in the middle and high ranges, and sometimes it's so loud I can't hear anything at all in one ear or the other (very rarely, both at the same time).

So instead of hearing everything, I have to depend visually on the waveforms in the tracks within SONAR (since I more or less know what various kinds of sounds look like at different volume levels), and external spectrum analyzers in Audacity for the final track to see if I really screwed up anything in the mix.






**** Also, I can't install any new synths or effects, because something in the computer has "broken" and using the VST rescan function destroys the links in the registry to all the existing effects, and breaks all my projects. The first time it happened I was lucky that I had a registry backup so I could manually go thru it and copy/paste back in the original info, but that then breaks the newly scanned stuff, and is tedious and takes days to weeks to fix all the issues, so I just don't mess with it anymore. I'd have to wipe and reinstall everything, which would take me months or more to get back where I am now, and I wouldn't be able to do any of my stuff in the meantime, so I just leave it alone and use what I have. (eventually I'll get the spare computer setup and experiment with getting that to work with both old and new effects, and make sure my projects work, but until then....)




*** (not that it really matters since I doubt there will ever be as many as a hundred people that hear any particular song, which while depressing is realistic given 710 plays on the entire set of stuff on bandcamp in all the years it's been there, most of which (400) were only partial plays (meaning more than 10% but less than 90% of a track was streamed) or skips 192 (where less than 10% was streamed), and only 118 of them were streamed more than 90% of the way thru. Soundclick doesn't let me have access to that data anymore but back when it did it wasn't any better--the music itself that's there includes a lot of older stuff that's not as good as what I do now that's on Bandcamp, and nobody really uses SC anymore but it's wasn't encouraging even when they did).

 

[Guerney]

If there's risk of equipment damage, I'll stay away, but thanks.

I use Sennheiser HD600 for monitoring mostly. Hard to damage the drivers, very easy to damage eardrums.

**** Also, I can't install any new synths or effects, because something in the computer has "broken" and using the VST rescan function destroys the links in the registry to all the existing effects, and breaks all my projects. The first time it happened I was lucky that I had a registry backup so I could manually go thru it and copy/paste back in the original info, but that then breaks the newly scanned stuff, and is tedious and takes days to weeks to fix all the issues, so I just don't mess with it anymore. I'd have to wipe and reinstall everything, which would take me months or more to get back where I am now, and I wouldn't be able to do any of my stuff in the meantime, so I just leave it alone and use what I have. (eventually I'll get the spare computer setup and experiment with getting that to work with both old and new effects, and make sure my projects work, but until then....)

If things are that bad, I'd clone the entire HD and experiment on that.

*** (not that it really matters since I doubt there will ever be as many as a hundred people that hear any particular song, which while depressing is realistic given 710 plays on the entire set of stuff on bandcamp in all the years it's been there, most of which (400) were only partial plays (meaning more than 10% but less than 90% of a track was streamed) or skips 192 (where less than 10% was streamed), and only 118 of them were streamed more than 90% of the way thru. Soundclick doesn't let me have access to that data anymore but back when it did it wasn't any better--the music itself that's there includes a lot of older stuff that's not as good as what I do now that's on Bandcamp, and nobody really uses SC anymore but it's wasn't encouraging even when they did).

I focus on creating original melodies etc, because it's all to easy to become obsessed and hopelessly distracted by the technology, like so many people who never get around to making music; endlesly lusting after new gear, twiddling knobs and sliders etc. I used to upload original music to Youtube, but stopped after a tune got stolen - can't afford £70k to sue. Some very old tracks get viewed over 800 times a day sometimes, this one has slowed down a bit. Analytics page of an old tune re-uploaded 216 days ago:




It's worth posting stuff on Youtube - bear in mind anything good will be sampled and used by other people, and you probably won't be able to do anything about it. Youtube plays could lead to your Bandcamp page gaining a traffic lift.

 

[amberwolf]

I use Sennheiser HD600 for monitoring mostly. Hard to damage the drivers, very easy to damage eardrums.

I have some AKG K240 "studio" headphones for editing certain things, and for recording stuff that has to be with the effects thru the computer so the latency of me hearing myself play vs what's coming out does'nt affect my playing as badly. But I try never to mix with them because the result does'nt sound very good except in good headphones--on speakers, especially not so great ones, it can sound absolutely terrible. (part of this section was copied from an earlier post on the previous page to save typing)

If things are that bad, I'd clone the entire HD and experiment on that.

Been trying for some time, but the cloning process always fails at some point. (list of attempted things is too long to remember and type up here). I haven't yet tried to use the Ubuntu laptop to run the cloning process.... Already ran several disk tests (including Spinrite) to see if there were drive problems, but none are ever found.

Since I can't use the computer while it's in progress, and it takes many hours to run the clone, I dont' try very often, because virtually everything I need to do when not at my dayjob is on this computer (other than the short bits of time JellyBeanThePerfectlyNormalSchmoo will accept attentionulz). (I have a duplicate spare laptop, but it just has Windows and a browser on it, along with the software for the Satiator, Cycle Analyst, and Phaserunner, as installing and customizing all the software setup on it all over again takes too much time to get it just the way I need it to work).

I focus on creating original melodies etc, because it's all to easy to become obsessed and hopelessly distracted by the technology, like so many people who never get around to making music; endlesly lusting after new gear, twiddling knobs and sliders etc.

I cover the various processes on ohter pages of this thread, but unless there is already an idea (that I am actually capable of implementing) playing in my head, I usually poke at the sounds and/or synths already in a project (clearing out the existing data and resaving as a new file/folder) with either the MIDI keyboard or the guitar via MIDIGuitar software to noodle around with them until something catches my ear, recording the MIDI as I go (whether or not I keep it, I record it and save it because sometimes there's an accidental good bit in there that I can expand on, but that I can't physically play again).

I am not a musician, and dont do things (anything) normally since my brain doesn't work right either. I build sound, and some of it is musical, but the specific "music" as in what notes are where or whatever arent' what I am concerned with; it's how the whole thing sounds together. I'm not a normal composer because of this. I call most of these MotionPictureScenes, because to me (and at least some of the few people that have ever discussed my music with me) that's what they evoke--scenes from a story, or a movie, etc.

It's worth posting stuff on Youtube - bear in mind anything good will be sampled and used by other people, and you probably won't be able to do anything about it. Youtube plays could lead to your Bandcamp page gaining a traffic lift.

I tried that with a couple songs, less than 17% made it even a minute into Discernment of Candor, and nobody made it even four minutes in. There's no correlation between having it posted on YT and the Bandcamp stats for it:
Average view duration
0:47
Average percentage viewed
13.9%

Convocation of Lies at least got 22% of them came within seconds of finishing it, only 18% actually did. Also no correlation to BC stats; I'd guess there are a few views from YT links but can't tell (the BC stats available aren't detailed enough for that).
Average view duration
1:10
Average percentage viewed
30.0%



Per others' suggestions, I tried starting a Twitter channel to promote the music, and I'd get one or two views whenever I published a new song link, but pretty much only to the actual embedded and linked song, and not anything else. Most of the time the view was only in the embedded player in the tweet. Sometimes I'd get a view or partial view of one or more other songs the same day, showing they followed the link to BC itself. I abandoned that after whatshisfuck took over and screwed the site up, but it wasn't doing much besides wasting my time anyway.



I've also tried offering various YT channels that I like the content of to use my music for free in their videos, or to compose things specifically for them, but have never had any response from any of them.


There have always been people that tell me my stuff is "really good" or "amazing" or whatever***, but it can't actually be all that good, since even those people don't pass links on to others and have those then pass them on further. Even the ones that have said they like it rarely buy any of it. Other than one person that bought a copy of the whole BC discography, I've had exactly 6 sales on BC. On Soundclick (which I used before BC, and usually still upload new things to), I've had only 3 sales since I started the SC account in 2007. So it isn't worth spending any money on promotion, or much time, as I'll never get back even what I put into it.

***I once believed in myself, that I actually made stuff people liked, but have been repeatedly disillusioned of this. I used to play live at sci-fi conventions, back in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s, before my dayjobs always had me working weekends and/or didn't let me take time off to go, and sometimes at local coffeehouses or bookstores, etc., and there would be quite a lot of people telling me how good my stuff was...in 96 I had CDs made because so many people asked for them, but even over all the time since then, I maybe sold a hundred or so of the thousand I made, most of them not to people that had asked for them (most of those weren't interested). The whole CD is up on BC as Uncommon Ground for completeness' sake.

I still (usually) enjoy making the music, and until my worsening tinnitus makes it impossible, I'll probably keep at it, and keep sticking it up on BC or whatever for the few that do listen to it.

 

[amberwolf]

When the Dark Closed In and Night Eclipsed Day​

updated with some mix tweaks and added string section accents.

When the Dark Closed In and Night Eclipsed Day, by Amberwolf

track by Amberwolf

amberwolf.bandcamp.com

 

[Guerney]

I still (usually) enjoy making the music, and until my worsening tinnitus makes it impossible, I'll probably keep at it, and keep sticking it up on BC or whatever for the few that do listen to it.

Keep at it!

Nearly all of the musicians I know making a living exclusively through music, do so by performing.

I am not a musician, and dont do things (anything) normally since my brain doesn't work right either.

Neither am I, which is handy because I can't be accused of being a failed musician - I have zero music training, but I tinker with noises because it's fun, and occasionally people pay me to make something. I'm mostly a keyboards and acoustic guitar dude, recently went electrickeried. Anyone can easily learn to play a computer: for good or ill, computers have democratised music. Of course, there's more new music created now than at any time in history. You're more likely to become a billionaire than be a top selling musical artist.

I've also tried offering various YT channels that I like the content of to use my music for free in their videos, or to compose things specifically for them, but have never had any response from any of them.

Why algorithms select certain videos to push is mysterious. I have no idea why this one continues to gain views, a couple of thousand since the other day - I haven't linked it anywhere in an attempt to ascertain what works and why, but I wish it'd stop being viewed because I'm feeling pressured to upload something good, which will get undoubtedly get stolen, again.

I have some AKG K240 "studio" headphones for editing certain things, and for recording stuff that has to be with the effects thru the computer so the latency of me hearing myself play vs what's coming out does'nt affect my playing as badly. But I try never to mix with them because the result does'nt sound very good except in good headphones--on speakers, especially not so great ones, it can sound absolutely terrible. (part of this section was copied from an earlier post on the previous page to save typing)

I use Sennheiser HD600 because they're fairly neutral (also very repairable, or they were until recently), but I tweak visually using Fabfilter, and the results are good enough for me to send the original individual unmodified tracks to be completed by experts - helps to give them a good idea of what I want the end result to sound like. The result must play well on the cheapest nastiest speakers and earbuds, and also be rewarding to listen using high end gear. Everyone thinks they get it right, but extremely rarely is that the case... which is why I pay sonic expert dudes who have much more expensive gear than I can ever afford to buy, to master anything important - worth it for paid work.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd600-review-headphone.23233/

Sennheiser HD600

We check out Sennheiser's flagship open-backed headphones, compensated to make them sound more like speakers.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[amberwolf]

New version of

When the Dark Closed In and Night Eclipsed Day​

with vocalizations, rearrangement, general tweaks.

When the Dark Closed In and Night Eclipsed Day, by Amberwolf

track by Amberwolf

amberwolf.bandcamp.com

Nearly all of the musicians I know making a living exclusively through music, do so by performing.

I can't "perform", so that's out. I can only do things non-realtime, one part at a time. (I can "play" live, but it is all invented on the spot; I can't re-play the same thing, just whatever is in my head at the moment I'm playing; there is a very limited audience for that sort of thing. My brain doesn't work like a normal person's, I don't have the same kind of memory system regular people do).

Neither am I, which is handy because I can't be accused of being a failed musician - I have zero music training, but I tinker with noises because it's fun, and occasionally people pay me to make something. I'm mostly a keyboards and acoustic guitar dude, recently went electrickeried.

I learned to do MIDI stuff in the computer back in the Amiga days, so I could edit what I play, since I can't actually play any instrument like a real person could, and I can't control my body well enough either. Before that I just recorded on reel-to-reel and cassettes, and "edited" by playing one tape into another and stopping/starting the reels with my hands since the clunky mechanical controls were too high a latency to work like that. But I couldn't fix any of my bad playing or wrong notes, just leave out parts with them (where possible, since most of my playing has them).

You're more likely to become a billionaire than be a top selling musical artist.

I wouldn't ever expect to be even remotely near top selling, or even selling at all--but it would be nice to have more than a handful of people *want* to hear my stuff, and more than a few dozen actually do so. Even if nobody buys it...just to know it's heard by a lot of people (and. (I long ago stopped almost all my other artforms because supplies cost money and it all takes time (of which there is never enough) and it will never make any as it's not stuff others are interested in, so I can't afford to put any into it, but the music is at least "free" to make since I already spent the money on all the stuff for it... and the music is the one thing that I can't *not* do).

Why algorithms select certain videos to push is mysterious. I have no idea why this one continues to gain views, a couple of thousand since the other day - I haven't linked it anywhere in an attempt to ascertain what works and why, but I wish it'd stop being viewed because I'm feeling pressured to upload something good, which will get undoubtedly get stolen, again.

I don't have that many views on *all* my stuff, everywhere, combined, for the entire time the internet has existed. :/ Not even with the cute puppy videos.

I use Sennheiser HD600 because they're fairly neutral (also very repairable, or they were until recently),

I used to have the 202(?) model, but they were bass-heavy (despite supposedly being "flat" according to the box) so everything mixed with them was "thin" on speakers, etc. They were also closed so while they kept environmental noise out they were harder to use for very long. The AKGs are better by a fair bit...but how they compare to anything else, I don't really know--as long as I use the *same* monitoring solutions for everything, then it doesn't make much difference--I can tell what's what in each different thing I am doing relative to each other, at least.

but I tweak visually using Fabfilter, and the results are good enough for me to send the original individual unmodified tracks to be completed by experts - helps to give them a good idea of what I want the end result to sound like. The result must play well on the cheapest nastiest speakers and earbuds, and also be rewarding to listen using high end gear. Everyone thinks they get it right, but extremely rarely is that the case... which is why I pay sonic expert dudes who have much more expensive gear than I can ever afford to buy, to master anything important - worth it for paid work.

To me, "right" is the way I want it to sound.

I'm sure that a professional could make my stuff sound "better" but it would be "different" and I'd have to hear it to know if that was what I wanted. Since pros don't do stuff for free, I'll probably never be able to A/B that stuff.

 

[Guerney]

I used to have the 202(?) model, but they were bass-heavy (despite supposedly being "flat" according to the box) so everything mixed with them was "thin" on speakers, etc. They were also closed so while they kept environmental noise out they were harder to use for very long. The AKGs are better by a fair bit...but how they compare to anything else, I don't really know--as long as I use the *same* monitoring solutions for everything, then it doesn't make much difference--I can tell what's what in each different thing I am doing relative to each other, at least.

Yep, HD202: closed back and over bassy. HD600: I can hear everything, bass takes a bit of a back seat, so I mix visually for bass. Even music I thought I'd heard had to be revisited, because of all their stellar revealmentationess. Astonishingly clear and worth every penny - best money on headphones I've ever spent. I'm sure there are better headphones, but undoubtedly much more expensive.

I can't "perform", so that's out. I can only do things non-realtime, one part at a time. (I can "play" live, but it is all invented on the spot; I can't re-play the same thing, just whatever is in my head at the moment I'm playing; there is a very limited audience for that sort of thing. My brain doesn't work like a normal person's, I don't have the same kind of memory system regular people do).

Improv jazz performances? To my suprise and shock, relatively recently discovered I like jazz. Something happened and all of a sudden there it was, an inexplicable liking for jazz.

I don't have that many views on *all* my stuff, everywhere, combined, for the entire time the internet has existed. :/ Not even with the cute puppy videos.

I've only been uploading to Youtube since 2012, and that was the analytics page section from my most visited track on my channel - over 40k views now, irrationally picked up by the algorithm to be pushed to agonise the ears of innocent viewers for no apparent reason. It slows down early in the week, gets up to about 300 or 400 views a day near weekends. It's bound to stop being viewed anytime now.





That video didn't even render completely, too many editing layers made my computer crash after 14 hours, having only rendered 45 seconds. It was supposed to be 3.5 minutes long. Despite being too damaged to play, I uploaded it anyway and Youtube repaired the file. To see if a complete render would also be promoted by the algorithm, I uploaded a full render, after exporting in sections then combining... but no dice. Therefore I'm still don't know why Youtube's algorithm chooses certain videos over others. Google's search engine ranking system in contrast, was easy to figure out and beat in the early 90's (hasn't changed much since), I optimise websites for Google every day. I'll figure out Youtube eventually or die trying. Most likely the latter.

To me, "right" is the way I want it to sound.

I agree, when making stuff for my own unknown reasons of mysterious motivation (hell it's relaxing, and infuriating). Occasionally I'm asked to create a soundtrack for a video, when nothing off the shelf will do - in which case of course, the customer is king. I allow limited use copyright for any noises I emit for use on customer video soundtracks, and never sell copyright outright... after they've signed the contract and paid the non-refundable 60% deposit, which they contractually agree I keep no matter what I create, or choose not to - certain people are impossible to work with, but thankfully they're rare.

 

[amberwolf]

Yep, HD202: closed back and over bassy. HD600: I can hear everything, bass takes a bit of a back seat, so I mix visually for bass. Even music I thought I'd heard had to be revisited, because of all their stellar revealmentationess. Astonishingly clear and worth every penny - best money on headphones I've ever spent. I'm sure there are better headphones, but undoubtedly much more expensive.

the akgs i'm using are clearer than anything i've ever had and have enough detail that some things sound like i'm on the stage with them or in the room with them, rather than having a pair of speakers strapped to the sides of my head like the other phones i've had

they are also reduced-bass but thats good because it means if i mix for them then the bass is louder in other peoples speakers since everybody seems to realy like lots of earthquake-level bass to shake the people around them, and maybe it will make them like my music assuming i can ever get them to hear it in the first place

Improv jazz performances? To my suprise and shock, relatively recently discovered I like jazz. Something happened and all of a sudden there it was, an inexplicable liking for jazz.

no it's not like jazz its literally just whatever is in my head at that moment

i can't really remember what i have played previously though sometimes it comes back while im using the same set of sounds since to me the music is the actual complete sound of the whole thing and not the specific notes being used where to everyone else it's whihc notes are used in what order and timing, and they dont' care what the sound is they still knwo it's the same music

i don't hear the same music if the sounds are different even if the notes are the same so i probably use the same notes in a lot of songs but theyre different songs to me because the sounds are different

though just because the sounds are the same doesn't always make it the same song if the notes are different but it's too complicated in my head to explain how this works for me it just does

just like with talking i can't always remember what i have said before or was talking about with anyone in particular whcih is why i need to use a text format like forums email etc to communicate properly so i can refer to what was already said then with music i have to have the project open to see and hear what i should be playing but even then i can't play it the same

most of the time even when i'm in the process of creating a song and im' playing in the parts i will make some phrase or other in a section that is what i want and i have to then use the program to copy and edit and paste and whatnot those sections where i need them because it's unlikely i will ever be able to get my brain to make my body play the same thing again even if i sit there trying for hours though i will have hundreds of variations on it plus a bunch of other different bits.

when i use non-midi input like a guitar etc then if i do something right or at least close enough but need more than just that one instance of it so it doesn't sound copied then i have to cut up the other wrong phrases etc waveforms and splice them together to be like the one or few i did right

the most recent song

When the Dark Closed In and Night Eclipsed Day, by Amberwolf

track by Amberwolf

amberwolf.bandcamp.com

is an example of doing that for the various guitar phrases in there and most of the other stuff that backs those bits in ohter instruments was done by figuring out what i'd played in the guitar parts because i don't know what the notes are when playing non keyboard instruments just that the sound is right or not and then drawing midi notes in those other instrumetns to match or compliment the guitar parts

I've only been uploading to Youtube since 2012, and that was the analytics page section from my most visited track on my channel - over 40k views now, irrationally picked up by the algorithm to be pushed to agonise the ears of innocent viewers for no apparent reason. It slows down early in the week, gets up to about 300 or 400 views a day near weekends. It's bound to stop being viewed anytime now.

well at least it's viewed

That video didn't even render completely, too many editing layers made my computer crash after 14 hours, having only rendered 45 seconds. It was supposed to be 3.5 minutes long. Despite being too damaged to play, I uploaded it anyway and Youtube repaired the file. To see if a complete render would also be promoted by the algorithm, I uploaded a full render, after exporting in sections then combining... but no dice. Therefore I'm still don't know why Youtube's algorithm chooses certain videos over others. Google's search engine ranking system in contrast, was easy to figure out and beat in the early 90's (hasn't changed much since), I optimise websites for Google every day. I'll figure out Youtube eventually or die trying. Most likely the latter.

i'm good at spam control and making things efficient and sculpting them down like hacking useless crap out of windows and the registry but it's super time consuming and tedious and i hate doing it but i dont' even know how to optimize for search engines and i don't think there is any way for me to change my youtube or bandcamp page coding just what i type in for descriptions and stuff

I agree, when making stuff for my own unknown reasons of mysterious motivation (hell it's relaxing, and infuriating).

tahts pretty muchg how everything i do is like for me it is relaxing to do something that just flows out of me but then making it into something complete or someting others might want to listen to instead of just what i hear in my head along with what i already played is infuriating because the morons that decided how the software should work didn't do it in ways that make it actually easy to use or in some cases even possible to do things that must be done so instead i have to spend hours or days working around their design choices and doing something tediuosly manually when they could easily have made teh fucntion to do that thing actually work in a usable way, or actually made a function to do it when isntead they chose not to allow it even though it's soemthing that has to be done a billion times in a project.






unless you like rants or whatever you should skip all the stuff below

it's just crap that came out while i was trying to write a real reply to what you said below, but couldn't

Occasionally I'm asked to create a soundtrack for a video, when nothing off the shelf will do - in which case of course, the customer is king. I allow limited use copyright for any noises I emit for use on customer video soundtracks, and never sell copyright outright... after they've signed the contract and paid the non-refundable 60% deposit, which they contractually agree I keep no matter what I create, or choose not to - certain people are impossible to work with, but thankfully they're rare.[/SIZE]

i can't imagine anyone wanting to pay me to make music for them


i haven't really found anyone to try to work with so far except for one internet acquaintance that played a guitar lead track for convocation of lies

Convocation of Lies (feat. Lauscho Remix), by Amberwolf

from the album Lies, Truth, and Assorted Inconveniences

amberwolf.bandcamp.com

that i then edited into the track as you can hear above to replace and enhance the guitar track i already had that wasnt very good but after he complimented me on the integration he basically stopped responding to me about working together even for me to help him with backing or percussion tracks for his stuff

and one local acquaintance a copule decades back but he wasnt interested in trying again after the first draft he just wanted to do covers of other people's music and only wanted me to fix his computer for him for nothing and didn't want to help me do anything which is pretty much how everyone uses me

it's why i don't realy have local friends anymore because they always want me to fix their stuff or help them do things or go out and do whatever they think is fun but they will not do any of these for me or with me so theres no point in associating with them since i finally just got tired of just being used for whatever they want since thats not really friendship

im sure its my fault for being too wierd for anyone else but its disheartening since i am what i am and wouldnt be anything else even if i could


theres another forum i used to discuss things with people on since the early 2000s but in recent years fewer and fewer people even respond to my posts and in the last year or two even if i try to talk about what theyre already talking about instead of my own stuff literally no one replies to me i figure im probably on all their ignore lists so they dont even see my posts, or worse they see them and just skip over them to talk to other people instead


i'm used to that sort of thing in realitme real life interactions but i had been part of that community and it hurt when that started happening so
i rarely even go back anymore to try and don't know why i do go back when i try again and have the same result

 

[E-HP]

the most recent song

When the Dark Closed In and Night Eclipsed Day, by Amberwolf

track by Amberwolf

amberwolf.bandcamp.com

is an example of doing that for the various guitar phrases in there and most of the other stuff that backs those bits in ohter instruments was done by figuring out what i'd played in the guitar parts because i don't know what the notes are when playing non keyboard instruments just that the sound is right or not and then drawing midi notes in those other instrumetns to match or compliment the guitar parts

I’m adding your latest song to one of my ebiking playlists that already includes Convocation. This is the list I listen to when I’m on those long uninterrupted stretches along th water. It’s sort of an odd combination of tunes, mostly instrumental, with stuff like tunes from Meddle, the old Pink Floyd album. The songs are all different, but still go together. I think this last song will fit right in.

 

[amberwolf]

Thank you for listening to it.

If you have any feedback about it (technical or critical, etc) I'd appreciate that, too.



I don't know the name Meddle, but have heard some Pink Floyd over the decades and liked it though I don't know which songs they were. I was taken to a concert of theirs in the 90s by a local band and their manager and some others; something about a bell I think. Would've needed Hubble to see the stage, and the delays from all the stadium reflections made it mostly a jumble of noise because their stuff depends a lot on rhythmic delays in the effects***, too much fumes from all the drugs and smokers in the audience too, so it was not a fun experience.


***a technique I use a lot, too


BTW, if you have signed up for bandcamp / my page there, however that's done, do you get updates when I either add new songs, or when I update existing ones with new versions of the song? I couldn't get any answer from BC about whether that happens or not, or how to make it happen if it doesn't automatically.

 

[E-HP]

I haven’t signed, just using the email download links. I look at this thread for new stuff. I can sign up to if it provides updates if you want.

 

[amberwolf]

I don't know if it provides updates or not.

 

[Guerney]

@amberwolf - When you create for yourself, who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? Saw this recently:

Aphex Twin gave us a peek inside a 90s classic. Here’s what we learned.​

Aphex Twin gave us a peek inside a 90s classic. Here's what we learned. - CDM Create Digital Music

Aphex Twin's "Vordhosbn" just got a surprising video reveal, showing how the track was made. So let's revisit trackers and 90s underground music culture.

cdm.link

Before the beats:

Here's that track completed:

Seems he experiments with noises, creating them over time and amassing a large collection, however using whatever the heck he uses (some noise making devices he makes himself), and then arranges the samples using a player, before programming or otherwise adding beats. On the other hand the video could be a red herring, and he could be doing it all within one particular DAW or DAWs, and holding out for paid sponsorship or something before revealing which DAW or DAWs he prefers and why?

PlayerPro music editor and SoundTracker

Download PlayerPro music editor and SoundTracker for free. Play SoundTracker media on your computer. PlayerPro is a music composer and sound editor ( SoundTracker ) for MOD S3M XM IT UMX . Uses XI, Quicktime or SoundFonts.

sourceforge.net

Playback, there's no quantisation of notes at the arrangement stage.

DAWs can reduce focus on music creation, if you're forever mucking about with how the things work. Although the MIDI editing isn't as user friendly and intuitive as Logic's, I use Sony Acid because it's easy, and overall largely an almost complete no-brainer to use - simply drag and drop onto the timeline and beatmatching will adjust playback of any sample to match the track tempo... but that's not what Aphex is doing there, and he is far richer through music making than I can hope of dreaming of ever being.

Thought I recognised a drum rhythm similar to a particular artist's in one of your tracks, and a bassline similar to another artist's - what music do you listen to? Whenever I listen to random tracks continuously for about 6 hours while doing other things, noting how the notes build tension - plateau - relax - break down etc. within melodies, and go to sleep but keep myself awake slightly to lucid dream... I dream of new tunes rhythms and melodies... which are difficult to remember when I fully wake up (or as fully as I'm capable of being awake). Still, they've been worth trying to emulate later, leading to new directions I would never have considered. I keep an audio recorder next to my bed, which contrary to all reasonable expectation is incapable of recording my thoughts, forcing me to whistle or hum the notes and tunes. Might buy a stylophone, and attempt to translate brain memory noises into annoying buzzy noises temporarily to record, before dream memory quickly fades.

I use lucid dreaming to solve all sorts of problems, very useful when my fully conscious mind hits an impasse. There's all sorts of weird shizz expressed when one lucid dreams, and it can throw up a good solution after you've been obsessed for days or weeks trying to solve a stubbornly unsolveable problem. Edison, Nikola Tesla, the director David Lynch... many people have lucid dreamt up stuff, using various methods of getting there. "Sleep on it", they say. I say "Sleep lightly on it".

 

[amberwolf]

@amberwolf - When you create for yourself, who the hell cares what anyone else thinks?

I care because I would like my stuff to be heard. If I literally only made it just for myself, I wouldn't even put it up anywhere or let anyone else hear it.

Though I will still make it even if no one ever heard it, and anyone that did hated it, it's a lot less fun knowing those things, and rather pointless and depressing. (show me any artist that says they don't care what anyone thinks of their creations, and has no audience, or insufficient for their ego, and I bet you will find they are extremely unhappy, depressed, probably abusing some or several substances or other people or themselves, or have ended or will end their existence because of it).


If no one likes it no one will hear it.

If I don't know why anyone doesn't like it, or why anyone does like it, then I can't do anything to increase the chances more would like it and thus listen to it.

I already know almost no one hears it (the sites show how many listens I get, along with some very basic info on where the aggregate listens "came from" and how much of it they listened to--nothing like the detail YT shows), and I also know that most of the people that have given me feedback on any of my music over the decades were almost certainly lying to make me feel better about it when they told me it's great, because if they really thought it was great they'd be getting everyone else to listen to it, and lots of people would hear it.

There are probably a few that honestly like it, but I can't tell who these are.


Back when i made physical things (props, spaceships, drawings, 3D stuff, etc) it was easier to get some sort of feedback on those, because it might take seconds out of someone's day to "see" them, while sounds take minutes or more for them to hear and process, and it's pretty obvious from my daily interactions with the world that most people are not willing to spend any more time than they absolutely have to dealing with me or whatever I create (it took me a long time to realize this, but once I did my attitude toward the whole world began to change to what it is now that I know the reality).

Seems he experiments with noises, creating them over time and amassing a large collection, however using whatever the heck he uses (some noise making devices he makes himself), and then arranges the samples using a player, before programming or otherwise adding beats. On the other hand the video could be a red herring, and he could be doing it all within one particular DAW or DAWs, and holding out for paid sponsorship or something before revealing which DAW or DAWs he prefers and why?

I have created assorted sounds for various things, including percussive stuff, and sample-warped them in various ways. I did that much more back with my old Ensoniq ASR88 and EPS16+ keyboards than I have since then (but I also make far less music nowadays than I did then; not enough time or energy for it).

Nowadays I do just about all the warping in the computer, using whatever software happens to have a function I need. I don't usually build instruments with them anymore like I did in the Ensoniqs, just drop them as samples into the tracks and place, copy, and further manipulate them there as needed within a particular song.

The recording I used to do with decent to good mics, either directly into the Ensoniqs, or directly into the computer. Almost anything I do these days I record with the crappy celphone mic and then transfer the wav file via USB into the computer to process from there, just because it is FAR easier to do, and rarely do I need any quality better than that once they're warped and in the mix anyway.

Thought I recognised a drum rhythm similar to a particular artist's in one of your tracks, and a bassline similar to another artist's - what music do you listen to?

I would not listen to anything by anyone else if I could avoid it. It drives out what I have in my head, and what I've had to listen to over the decades has destroyed a fair bit of what I might have created if I hadn't.

At work I am forced to hear the repetitititititititititiive overhead music which varies among the decades from the 60s to presumably "now", with "themed" multi-hour "sets" repeating over and over, driving whatever was in my head out. (this is pretty much how it has been for me since I had to start working in retail in the mid 90s, and that's about when my musicmaking seriously began to decline, both because of that and because of my lack of sleep from the stress of that and other bad things accumulating in life)

When i was much younger, before I discovered the music in my head and not too much after that, I used to listen to whatever was on the radio (not purposefully, but because my family members always had to have such things playing, or other people I was around), so I am probably influenced by the sounds and whatnot of the time (the 1970s and 1980s).

Then I discovered a radio show called Musical StarStreams with "new age" music, with Ray Lynch and Yanni and Andreas Wollenweider, etc., and that I sometimes listened to on purpose myself. This influenced me enough that at some point I found enough used reel-to-reel machines (originally acquired to record what I played and edit it by splicing (which was more disaster than success)) to be able to use them for assorted effects (delays, flangers, phasers, choruses, though I had no idea these things were "actual" effects or what their names were, only that I was "inventing" ways to make my stuff sound more like some of the things like I had heard, more rhythmic and less totally boring to any listeners that might be around when I was playing.

There is also the music from whatever movies and tv shows I have seen, primarly scifi, primarily orchestral scores, that has influenced me; and the orchestral classical stuff my dad would sometimes play at full blast regardless of what anyone else wanted or needed (like everything else he did). The sound and style of orchestral stuff shaped how the music in my head sounded.

Whenever I listen to random tracks continuously for about 6 hours while doing other things, noting how the notes build tension - plateau - relax - break down etc. within melodies,

I can't really analyze music like that. (or stories, experiences, etc....) I just experience them. When working on music (or other art) I just do what "works" in that moment, with whatever changes I am capable of doing, playing things, editing them as midi or audio or whatever. I can't really truly plan out doing something; that never works out. I just have to work in the moment with what's going on, even if it is loosely based on a "plan".

Most plans I make come to nothing, either because some stage is impossible for me, or something is unavailable to me, or because my brain has changed and the plan no longer makes sense or else doesn't work with what's in there now, or because so much time passes between the plan and the implementation (usually because of time required in acquiring knowledge, skills, or stuff required to implement the plan).

Same thing for almost everytihng else I do, including communications; even life itself. I'm relatively good at improvising (whatever), and terrible at planning and designing and executing (anything I plan I then improvise upon as I attempt to execute; I can't help it as it is the way my deformed broken mind works).

and go to sleep but keep myself awake slightly to lucid dream... I dream of new tunes rhythms and melodies... which are difficult to remember when I fully wake up (or as fully as I'm capable of being awake). Still, they've been worth trying to emulate later, leading to new directions I would never have considered. I keep an audio recorder next to my bed, which contrary to all reasonable expectation is incapable of recording my thoughts, forcing me to whistle or hum the notes and tunes. Might buy a stylophone, and attempt to translate brain memory noises into annoying buzzy noises temporarily to record, before dream memory quickly fades.

I can't sing, write music, hum, whistle, etc., I can only attempt to use my fingers to play out the sounds in my head, and that doesn't work very well most of the time (far less well now than it used to as there is too much garbage in my head that gets in the way).

(Any "singing" you hear in my songs is assembled from usually many attempts on each word, sometimes sound by sound, just like my guitar playing often is; usually retuned manually by chopping it up into bits and pitch shifting as required. Sounds terrible if soloed, but is tolerable in a mix. )

I use lucid dreaming to solve all sorts of problems, very useful when my fully conscious mind hits an impasse. There's all sorts of weird shizz expressed when one lucid dreams, and it can throw up a good solution after you've been obsessed for days or weeks trying to solve a stubbornly unsolveable problem. Edison, Nikola Tesla, the director David Lynch... many people have lucid dreamt up stuff, using various methods of getting there. "Sleep on it", they say. I say "Sleep lightly on it".

I used to use lucid dreaming a lot for this, but I cannot really intentionally do so anymore, and haven't been able to for a long time. (again, starting after I went into retail, but getting much worse the last couple decades with all the losses and emotional traumas I have had that I simply don't have the luxury of working thru (I could only do that if I could *just* do things when I needed, wanted, etc. instead of having to deal with the world whenever it chooses to intrude on me, having to work, etc...and that will never be possible).

Occasionally I will manage to dream about something I intend to, but it will always always be interrupted by nightmares of various kinds, which happen during every sleep or nap I manage.

But my brain still does problem solving on it's own continuously, without conscious thought, and sometimes offers up a useful solution to one of these problems (technical, musical, etc.). So,

 

[Guerney]

Though I will still make it even if no one ever heard it, and anyone that did hated it, it's a lot less fun knowing those things, and rather pointless and depressing. (show me any artist that says they don't care what anyone thinks of their creations, and has no audience, or insufficient for their ego, and I bet you will find they are extremely unhappy, depressed, probably abusing some or several substances or other people or themselves, or have ended or will end their existence because of it).

You're absolutely right, describes the fraught and frantic lives of my longstanding musician friends who had the misfortune of ending up becoming Techno artists... with the exception that they have huge audiences providing resources to fuel their extreme and decades long prolonged and highly varied substance abuse. Other than saying "I like it", I've learned to always and resolutely avoid commenting on anyone's music even when asked because I can't help being utterly honest ruthless and brutal, and have crushed people's confidence to the point where they give up making music completely - besides, I'm not actually a musician, having never been trained in the subject, and you'd be better off requesting much more well informed and qualified feedback from those rare muscians who make masses of money selling their creations and wares.

I can't really analyze music like that. (or stories, experiences, etc....) I just experience them. When working on music (or other art) I just do what "works" in that moment, with whatever changes I am capable of doing, playing things, editing them as midi or audio or whatever. I can't really truly plan out doing something; that never works out. I just have to work in the moment with what's going on, even if it is loosely based on a "plan".

Most plans I make come to nothing, either because some stage is impossible for me, or something is unavailable to me, or because my brain has changed and the plan no longer makes sense or else doesn't work with what's in there now, or because so much time passes between the plan and the implementation (usually because of time required in acquiring knowledge, skills, or stuff required to implement the plan).

Same thing for almost everytihng else I do, including communications; even life itself. I'm relatively good at improvising (whatever), and terrible at planning and designing and executing (anything I plan I then improvise upon as I attempt to execute; I can't help it as it is the way my deformed broken mind works).

I can't relate to what you've described, but it does sound a bit familiar. I have two large randomised music playback collections: "Classical" and "General". The "General" folder contains everything which isn't "Classical". All music is the same, timbres vary but the it's all the same language. I really have no idea how people who aren't neurotypical experience music.

I can't sing, write music, hum, whistle, etc., I can only attempt to use my fingers to play out the sounds in my head, and that doesn't work very well most of the time (far less well now than it used to as there is too much garbage in my head that gets in the way).

(Any "singing" you hear in my songs is assembled from usually many attempts on each word, sometimes sound by sound, just like my guitar playing often is; usually retuned manually by chopping it up into bits and pitch shifting as required. Sounds terrible if soloed, but is tolerable in a mix. )

Nothing wrong with that, because of course and fortunately, computers facilitate the playback of zillions of tracks simultaeously, and project exports of many times more - you're only limited by computer hardware and software.

I have created assorted sounds for various things, including percussive stuff, and sample-warped them in various ways. I did that much more back with my old Ensoniq ASR88 and EPS16+ keyboards than I have since then (but I also make far less music nowadays than I did then; not enough time or energy for it).

Nowadays I do just about all the warping in the computer, using whatever software happens to have a function I need. I don't usually build instruments with them anymore like I did in the Ensoniqs, just drop them as samples into the tracks and place, copy, and further manipulate them there as needed within a particular song.

The recording I used to do with decent to good mics, either directly into the Ensoniqs, or directly into the computer. Almost anything I do these days I record with the crappy celphone mic and then transfer the wav file via USB into the computer to process from there, just because it is FAR easier to do, and rarely do I need any quality better than that once they're warped and in the mix anyway.

I 'd love to own four or more Korg MS20 synths, but there are so many free VSTs out there which you can keep in the digital domain to reduce noise, it really doesn't seem worth bothering to buy and use real hardware, although they have greater dynamic range. Real MS20s are hissy and frequently need repair. Ultimately, the notes, tempo, melodies, harmonies and how they're arranged matter, not the timbre of instruments.

I spend a lot of time doing horrible things to noises in Sony (formerly Sonic Foundry, now Magix) Soundforge. Inevitably they progressively become more horrible, but sometimes in interesting ways depending on the VST chains... starting with a seletion of completely clean noise free generated wave forms.

 

[amberwolf]

Other than saying "I like it", I've learned to always and resolutely avoid commenting on anyone's music even when asked because I can't help being utterly honest ruthless and brutal, and have crushed people's confidence to the point where they give up making music completely - besides, I'm not actually a musician, having never been trained in the subject, and you'd be better off requesting much more well informed and qualified feedback from those rare muscians who make masses of money selling their creations and wares.

Those kinds of people don't have time or desire to listen to anything I could ever make, much less comment on it. :/

As for crushing me, that can't happen. I know how bad I suck at all the things I do; I'll keep doing them anyway, because I will never be able to afford to pay anyone to do them for me.

(and some stuff, like the music and other "art", has to be done by me because it is from inside me; if someone else did it for me it wouldn't be "mine". and I wouldnt' get anything out of it, no fun, no catharsis, no pride that I created something myself, etc).

I can't relate to what you've described, but it does sound a bit familiar. I have two large randomised music playback collections: "Classical" and "General". The "General" folder contains everything which isn't "Classical". All music is the same, timbres vary but the it's all the same language. I really have no idea how people who aren't neurotypical experience music.

I don't know how anyone else does...but for me it's a sound experience. For instance, to me a "cover" of a song is a different song, because it sounds different.

Ultimately, the notes, tempo, melodies, harmonies and how they're arranged matter, not the timbre of instruments.

Not for me. The entire thing, all of those things, even the effects used, create the "piece" or song or whatever name you want to give it. If any of it is different, it is a different song, to me.

So I sculpt sound in all hte various ways I have available, to create the things I do.

 

[amberwolf]

There are now a few new creations, three of which I think are good, and the fourth of which (at the bottom of the post) is still really a "sketch" but is enough to listen to if you like long "dreamy" things.

Ookami no Kari no Yume (Wolf's Dream of the Hunt)​

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/ookami-no-kari-no-yume-wolfs-dream-of-the-hunt
(placeholder cover art)

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/topic/81204-ookami-no-kari-no-yume-wolfs-dream-of-the-hunt/

While listening, imagine a wolf having a dream of being in a pack of wolves that spot something and chase it thru snowy hilly terrain with small clusters of trees (and no, wolves wouldn't howl, yip, or make other noises while chasing, but some artistic license was taken so the listener can better get into the visualization).

(if you're bored with a section, wait a moment and things will change....then tell me why you were bored with a part and which part it is)

This one took a good long while to draw in the percussion; I started working on the percussion in a couple of previous songs (that were gonig to be this one but I got other ideas while working on them, so I ended up making mulitple songs with the various bits as I built them up). I also ended up borrowing some of my hand percussion from this one to help make The Skaergaard Intrusion further down this page.

I'm still poking at the orchestration of this one; some of the sounds are not the ones I hear in my head yet, so I have to find the right ones (especially the right strings for each section). I've had a really hard time with the synth-flute-like part that carries thru much of the track, because of teh way the synth itself is built and because of the way the sound was designed in the synth, but i've worked out most of the issues at this point and the sound ls likely to stay mostly the way it is now for that part. I also had a problem with the taiko drums sounding like claps instead, but I finally found the issue and it will get fixed in a near-future version (since it isn't a quick fix as I have to keep some of them sounding this way, and other parts need the bass restored to them, and that is a lot of automation I have to draw in).

TT # Nex Ool​

(read as tee tee hatch nex ool )

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/tt-nex-ool

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/topic/81539-t-t-nex-ool/
Started as just a test project to verify operation of an MFX plugin and write a bug report; as I played with it it turned into an actual song; evolved to make me think of various aliens and situations in the Draco Tavern series by Larry Niven, so it got the name TT # Nex Ool for the Chirpsithra life support code for humans / earth.

The Skaergaard Intrusion​

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/the-skaergaard-intrusion
(no cover art yet, just a placeholder avatar image)

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/topic/82164-the-skaergaard-intrusion/#comment-569451

This one is one of those pieces you'd hear in a movie as the hero is seen in timelapse on a journey somewhere...it wasn't planned, I was just messing with sounds and in a very short time (for me), just a few hours among naps, I had the majority of it laid down, and at this point am working out mix decisions, effects, and details of certain transitions from section to section, for the most part. Some string and wind instrument modulations, bends, etc, still need to be drawn in with various automation.

The Silent Uncounted​

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/the-silent-uncounted

This one is just a sketch of a "song", but if you like long dreamy stuff....

 

[marty]

Like the pictures, art. Did you create? With what programs?

 

[E-HP]

For "Ookami no Kari no Yume", I imagine being the hunted when I listen to it.

 

[amberwolf]

I didn't think I could get that across, which is why I made it a wolf's dream....Good to know that it did get across to at least one person

Only a handful of people have listened to it, and only two (besides you) have provided any feedback, neither of which was very informative. Yours tells me much more, so thank you.

Detailed feedback of any kind is useful.

 

[amberwolf]

New version of The Skaergaard Intrusion, 101424 000001 000088E -- numerous mix changes (track envelopes), sound tweaks, added new percussion elements and removed certain perc notes here and there, added certain new sound elements under existing ones.

The Skaergaard Intrusion, by Amberwolf

The original wind instrument is MiniDizi's ChineeWinds DiziBass1. There's a better sound for this on my old Ensoniq ASR88, which includes various styles of playing that would better fit this song (it's the same flute you can hear in various tracks on my Uncommon Ground album from 1996 over here; Uncommon Ground -- Full Album, by Amberwolf , though there's only a couple notes here and there that use one of the short percussive styles I want for this one). I have a way to convert the instrument into something I could use on SFZ; have to try it out to see if it still sounds the same that way.

There's also stuff on my ancient set of Rare Instruments GS cd's that I used bits of, using Vsampler to convert them into folders full of wave files (import into Vsampler, then use Windows Explorer to copy the temporary wave file folder elsewhere, then close vsampler without saving) that I can then drop into the project whereever needed, and use SONAR's assorted tools to pitch up or down or stretch.***

The sounds used so far are the Irish Low Whistle, the Gadulka, and the Duduk, as well as some Chinese Gong 34" to accent the few crashes in the MisFitKit(modified). I also added some tiny accents out of sounds I've collected over the years called "bigpot5" and "grater"1-4.

I would kinda like to use the QL HurdyGurdy (I like the sound) but I have to read up on how to use it (there's a booklet with the QL cd set), then setup the wave files in a track to work correctly (since it has drones and whatever notes you play). I think I have another version of the HG that might be playable, but I have to look thru my off-system sounds and instruments, in the "i might need this someday" collection of "free stuff".

****I do that because Vsampler doesn't usually convert anything completely / correctly, and leaves assorted notes (keys) unplayable (silent) even though it has the sample there, and all the settings for that specific key are identical to other keys next to it that use the same sample and *do* play. The zones above the keys correctly play if clicked on, just the specific key(s) doesn't, either via MIDI or via the onscreen keyboard. Vsampler is very unintuitive and clunky to edit things in, so I don't ever try to fix such problems, I just use the wave files directly; it's a lot faster than trying to fix the instrument and then play in parts the way I want them. Building a basic instrument from scratch isn't nearly as hard as fixing a broken import / conversion, but it's pretty tedious, so I don't usually do that either, though I used to try a long time ago.

 

[E-HP]

New version of The Skaergaard Intrusion, 101424 000001 000088E -- numerous mix changes (track envelopes), sound tweaks, added new percussion elements and removed certain perc notes here and there, added certain new sound elements under existing ones.

The Skaergaard Intrusion, by Amberwolf

I was looking at the graphic on the webpage for this song, and started wondering about the title. I was thinking before seeing the graphic, that the title might be about the geological formations in Greenland (when our kids were little, they had a friend whose parents were both geologists, so they'd love to talk about this kind of stuff). Anyway, then I looked at the graphic and the wolves climbing the hill, and thought maybe it was a double meaning. I couldn't find much on Skaergaard and wolves, other than there are Greenland Wolves in Greenland. But I saw something on Skaarsgard Wolves on a site related to a book series.
Anyway, I listened to the piece while reading about the Skaergaard Intrusion, Greenland wolves, and Skaarsgard Wolves, so by the time I was done, I thought it was a play on words about the wolve pack moving (intruding) into the Skaergaard site/area. Then I read your description of the hero timelapse thing. I was way off. How did you decide on the name?

 

[amberwolf]

I was looking at the graphic on the webpage for this song, and started wondering about the title. I was thinking before seeing the graphic, that the title might be about the geological formations in Greenland (when our kids were little, they had a friend whose parents were both geologists, so they'd love to talk about this kind of stuff). Anyway, then I looked at the graphic and the wolves climbing the hill, and thought maybe it was a double meaning. I couldn't find much on Skaergaard and wolves, other than there are Greenland Wolves in Greenland.

The title is indeed about the formation, though the title doesn't directly have to do with wolves (just that I can make almost anything "about" wolves if I try hard enough (one of my many interests, perhaps my oldest primary one).

You might notice that every artwork image I've used has a wolf in it, as the focus of the image / visual story, etc., wherever possible. I'd rather use wolves in there than humans, even in places where (like Cloudwalkers) the original source was probably humans. I only used a human in TT # Nex Ool because of the specifics in the source of the name, and wanted anyone that knew that source material to recognize it. My own avatar on the music pages (well, here, too) is a wolf for the same reason--I'd rather see a wolf than a human face, and my own is nothing to look at anyway (especially since it's always showing how worn-out I am).



The wolves in Greenland are very few given the size of the place and the usual available food sources, having like many places been heavily hunted for little reason. They are mostly gray wolves, but there are some arctic wolves as well. They and the Ellesmere Island wolves are related; don't remember if anyone ever figured out which ones came from the other place; DNA studies have been going on for a while.

The volcanic formation itself is of interest for a number of (geologic) reasons, but there are good articles out there that can go into those much better than I can, for those very few that would be interested in such things.

Anyway, I listened to the piece while reading about the Skaergaard Intrusion, Greenland wolves, and Skaarsgard Wolves, so by the time I was done, I thought it was a play on words about the wolve pack moving (intruding) into the Skaergaard site/area. Then I read your description of the hero timelapse thing. I was way off. How did you decide on the name?

The name is one that I have had in my "song titles" text file for a while. I ran across the phrase while reading about various geologic / volcanic / tectonic things (another of my many interests; the synthesis of how the planet itself works, of which we know so little), and it was just too interesting to not note down somewhere; it just *sounds* like a title to something.

After I had been working on the song enough to realize it was a journey, and I had been looking for a title for it (since no good one had come to mind of it's own accord), I found this title in my file matched the "feel" I wanted for it. Initially I thought that I would use it as the meaning of intrusion like an invasion, but the song didn't feel that way, so I made artwork that shows the journey as if it could be on the formation itself (I couldn't find a good image of the actual intrusion to use, so I just went thru the AI Test Kitchen ImageFX results from various description attempts until it came up with a version I could use. I used wolves on a journey rather than humans because, well, what I said before.


I think I said this earlier in this thread somewhere, but it's not terribly uncommon for me to name a song unrelated to whatever I originally thought about when I made the song, to give it a "cool" name that people might remember, or that they might see and click on it just to see what it was, when whatever name I might have otherwise used would not have done so, or might even have made them not click on it.

I do often name songs for what they are about...but sometimes my songs aren't actually about anything, they are just my mind exploring what it hears within a set of sounds and patterns. Most often that doesn't even result in a listenable song, at least not the first time around (as in the case of Just Give Me A Voice, where the original was pretty awful but the total revamp / rebuild is pretty good), and only a re-exploration of the pieces of the project at some later date reveals something useful in it. (I have a handful of such re-explorations ongoing at the moment, from stuff in the last few years).

Sometimes, like with The Skaergaard Intrusion, the whole thing "just works". But...TSI is itself a re-exploration of some parts of Ookami no Kari no Yume (mostly some of it's percussive elements and some of the sounds used in different ways than OnKnY used them), so....

But I saw something on Skaarsgard Wolves on a site related to a book series.

I hadn't heard of those, so I googled them. I don't know the series--I don't read fiction about wolves, though decades back I built a world to write a story about, including a language, technology, etc., for wolves evolved culturally but not much physically, on a world they were dropped onto along with humans (who died off) and other earth life by some race similar to The Preservers in the Star Trek universe, who scattered colonies of "worthwhile" life onto worlds that hadn't developed it's own. It was very juvenile and is probably good that pretty much all the work was lost (probably in the housefire, but I hadn't worked on it in a very long time before that). As much as I type, I'm not much of a writer. (not much of an artist of any kind, but that is what I am at the core, and I would still just do art of various kinds if I could, and didn't have to do the everyday stuff, dayjob, etc...I'd probably be a lot better at all of it if I could've dedicated myself to it, but there has never been time).

 

[amberwolf]

Like the pictures, art. Did you create? With what programs?

Hmm. I thought I'd posted about that, but apparently that was somewhere else. So...a condensed version:


.....................................
AI-created "art" is often pretty strange; I've seen stuff that must have been AI generated in various places before, with errors a human would not have made (even one that didn't know how to use the creation or editing software, or whatever other media-creation-method). Well, maybe Dali or Picasso or various surrealists, etc., might have done art like that on purpose...but these didn't seem intended to be that way.

But it's "advanced" enough to be able to create useful things, in far less time than a relatively skilled layman (like me) could do the same thing.

I haven't had the time to create album or song "cover art" in ages for any of my stuff on Amberwolf so I've been reusing a couple of images I made for that decades ago, like these

and sometimes pics of one or the other of my dogs (usually a really cute pic of Yogi, like this one).



Google came up with the AI Test Kitchen ImageFX and I've been using it to fiddle around and make at least some placeholder cover art pieces; none of them are really what i want but the AI can barely understand which things I want in an image (often it doesn't even get that right), much less where they should be and how they should be interacting.

Everything is given with a short text description. The more "complete" the grammar/etc, the less likely the AI is to get what you want. The best results I've had so far are to give as few words as possible, mostly nouns, sometimes adjectives, etc. The more specific you get, the farther from your desired results it will probably generate. It also self-edits what you type in, after you click "create"; it may rearrange words, or even add or remove words, completely changing what you asked for.

So using very very simple lists of things you want, comma-separated, seems to at least get the idea across more or less; like "five photorealistic wolves playing a synthesizer keyboard , the double bass , electronic drums , keyboards , violin, and taiko drums in a forest at a rave at night with colored spotlights".

But it may automatically edit that to "photorealistic rave wolves playing five synthesizer keyboard , double violin, forest bass , giant electronic taiko drums , and keys, and night boards with colored spotlights" which generates a completely different thing. Sometimes it will actually say it couldn't generate what I asked for; more often after it has self-edited my input but even when it doesnt it can happen.

Sometimes it will generate an output that has virtually nothing to do with what you asked for. (once I got a wolf chained by it's paws to a metal table, with nothing but the wolf having anything to do with what I typed in. ). But it does warn you that "Disclaimer: AI outputs may sometimes be offensive or inaccurate". :lol:


If there was some way to give it a general layout, visually, or to tell it "make it like this other image (even one it already generated) except do this, and this, and this instead...but there isn't.

There is an "edit" function, but it leaves evertyhing visually awful that it touches, like you took a painting and cut a hole in it and glued in bits of something else, then partly dissolved the painting and smushed the two pieces together. :/ So I stopped trying to do that, and just regenerate entirely new images (usually just using the same text description and leaving the "seed" unlocked to see what changes that makes, but sometimes by changing the description slightly and locking the seed number to cause it to create more similar things without as much variation. (it won't usually create anything different or anything at all if you use the same text *and* the same seed, but sometimes it *will* and even create totally different things--it is very hard to predict what results you will get...).

If I were to give any human artist the directions I would give the AI (if it would take complete sentences correctly and not modify them by itself), I'd get a much better result, or at least much closer to the specifications. Especially if I could point them to examples of the specific things I wanted in an image...which you also can't do with the AI stuff.


I don't have time ATM to upload some of the really wierd ones (there are some doozies) or any of the ones I'm not using, but you can see the ones I put up already on the bandcamp page. There are a few I iddn't use that it created that are pretty close to what I want, but have some huge glaring error in them, like a paw thru an instrument, or an instrument thru a wolf, or some wierd distortion, or the instruments turned the wrong way to be played, etc.

I don't really know / understand how it does what it does; seeing what it comes up with based on what I tell it just confuses me.

Anyway, I don't have enough time or energy to do all the things I want to do; including making "cover art" for my songs. I'd prefer more control over what it generates, but I am willing to live with what it comes up with to have something other than the few lame things I have made to put up there. People tell me that generally people are more likely to click on something to listen to it if there is an interesting picture for it, and like most artists I have enough of an ego to want as many people as possible to hear my music.

If I ever have the time I'd prefer to edit the generated results to get what I really want out of them. But that's unlikely to ever happen.

If the AI art really is generated from stuff it finds online or wherever, it should provide the requester with links to each of the sources; a bibliography of sorts, so these artists can be contacted or at least credited if unreachable. I have not tried out other generative AIs for this, so perhaps others do?

But I should at least make a note in each song's "notes" section that states where the image was generated from, the AI Test Kitchen at Google. (EDIT: did this just now as ""Cover art" image was generated from the AI Test Kitchen at Google, minimally edited afterwards by me to add my name and the track and/or album name. "


If I did not have to work an exhausting dayjob to survive, and spend almost all my time when I am not there just resting enough to go back the next day and do it again, I'd make all my own art (visual, audio, sculptural, etc), as I have had many ideas for it (which I can't get the AI to create, using the sources I already have or have already made, etc). But I don't, so I am using the only tool I've found so far that will help me do what I need to.


(FWIW, I've asked a number of artists over the years if they'd help me make artwork for the music site(s), but didn't even get replies from most---the one or two that did answer simply weren't interested. (the same response pattern I usually get whenever I ask anyone for help, whether I know them or not; some say they're interested or even actually volunteer without being asked, but then stop replying, proving they weren't, and were just "being nice" when they said they were). It's probably for the best, since I likely couldn't afford any of their services, and can't imagine anything I could do for any of them. But since humans don't want to work with me, I'm stuck with having the computers do it. )



Image links keep breaking to the bandcamp art covers, so rather than link directly, or reupload them all here, I'll refer to this thread on the Cakewalk forum

Cloudwalkers

Cloudwalkers https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/cloudwalkers This is one of the very few that was made for a specific "story": I made it to be about a zeppelin voyage and battle in the clouds of another planet's sky, from a story "Last Cruise of the Zeppelin Tempest" by JP Boyd. So, fly thru so...

discuss.cakewalk.com

that has actual uploads of the images in it, including ones I did not end up using but were interesting for various reasons.



I was trying to generate an image for the Cloudwalkers song that at least had the basic impression of what the song is intended to convey and represent...but failed pretty dramatically.

The AI image generator is interesting, but it is ultimately not a very good tool even to create concept images for something, because it is like most tech (or other) support--it doesn't actually "listen" to what you say, and it's response is at best in the general vein of what you asked for. It will almost never do specific things the way you say them.

Even with hundreds of iterations of the same thing, I get exactly zero that are what was stated. Some are very specatcular failures, and many are even usable...but none truly get across the idea intended.

If it had a way to truly edit the input to just regenerate the same image with just the changes specified, all else exactly the same, it might be really useful, but without that ability, you can never actually get what you want, since it changes *everything* every time you submit, even if the input text is exactly the same, unchanged, and the "seed" is exactly the same.

If it even had a way to select one of the four images it often produces for a single iteration, and tell it "yes, just like this, except for..." and whatever change you need to make.

But it doesn't.


I experimented with a separate site's Ai stuff, ChatGPT's "tell me about this image" analyzer function, and it is really very good at telling you what is in an image. Not perfect, but good. However, it's image generation cannot do even a thousandth as well as the google test kitchen imagefx does. Yet, if I feed it back it's own image, it easily recognizes exactly what is in there. So the two are almost certainly not tied together. If they were, it might be able to process a user's descriptions and compose the actual image asked for. As it is, it is VERY VERY bad at it. It does not even get the general idea in some cases, and it can't handle any kind of detail in the description at all. :/ I'd go so far as to say completely unusable for any reason or usage.

If anyone is interested, I'll post what I told it and then what it gave me, and then my corrections, and then it's (pretty good) understanding of those corrections and my original intent, and then it's terribly wrong "corrected" output that was even worse than the first one, with none of it's own stated corrections actually implemented. :/



I did think of a way to use the google test kitchen to generate the individual elements / layers of an image, and then I could composite the usable versions of each together myself in a locally-installed paint program like GIMP, etc. (none of the online ones allow you to select what you are working on, only whole images or whole layers, so they're useless for this). Then I could actually create what I am after, myself. But it would be a lot of time that I could instead be spending on the music itself. So I haven't tried this yet.

 

[amberwolf]

If any of the readers of this thread use the full version of Kontakt (or don't mind spending $300 to get it) this site

Rigid Audio Berlin | KONTAKT INSTRUMENTS | PRODUCTS | EVERYTHING BUNDLE

Premium Kontakt instruments.

www.rigid-audio.com

is shutting down in January, so they're selling their full collection for $25 instead of almost a couple thousand. I've never used their stuff (because I don't have Kontakt) but from what I've read it's good stuff, and that collection includes a GUI maker that lets you create your OWN instruments too, which you could then sell if you like.

Another site, Best Music Production Software Deals , has a great sale going on everything they have (a LOT), until Nov 5th.

I'm still trying to justify to myself buying some of the voice sample kits and orchestral stuff, because while I should not spend money on this stuff, at this sale I can "afford" some of them...maybe one or two (depending on which ones). The ones I've been looking at most seriously are:

	Product	Price / Base price	Total
	Divine Vocal Mantras by Black Octopus Sound	69.95 / 29.95	$29.95
	Vocal Atmospheres Bundle by Black Octopus Sound	79.00 / 29.99	$29.99
	Deep India by Black Octopus - Exclusive Lowest Price!	45.00 / 19.99	$19.99
	Secret Cinematic Bundle by GHOSTHACK	695.00 / 49.99	$49.99
	SHYMER - Ethereal Vocal Collection by GHOSTHACK	70.00 / 50.00	$50.00
	Cinematic Choir by Image Sounds	99.00 / 19.00	$19.00
	Ethnic Voices by ThaLoops	119.00 / 23.99	$23.99

plus they have another 20% discount on top of that. Now I have to decide which one(s) to get; all of them have things in them I *really* want to use, stuff I have been looking for for ages, since I cannot sing and even if I could I don't have the right kind of voice to make any of the sounds that I want in my music (not something you can train into, either).

There are a few hundred dollars of other things I'd love to get if I won the lottery :lol: , but most of them are Kontakt instruments that I can't use without also buying a $300 piece of software to host them in (Kontakt Full), as they don't work in the free Kontakt Player.

But all the stuff in my list is sets of wave files that I can just drop into SONAR in my audio tracks, and manipulate as necessary to do what I want with them. (I do this all the time with all sorts of sounds, stuff I record and create as well as stuff found freely licensed on the internet, etc).