Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

[famoose]

For anyone interested I was quoted $316 + $88 UPS shipping (USD) for a full DM02 motor kit, no throttle, to the east coast. Not bad considering a TS is around the same wheelhouse.

Also, in terms of settings I pulled this from the German pedelec forum Elinx linked just to make it easy to refer to, they seem mostly happy with these parameters:

Sensible entries of the values for ZeroVoltage , MaxVoltage and StartupVoltage are the prerequisite for the drive also behaving in a torque-controlled manner. At the end we entered forZeroVoltage 500mV , for MaxVoltage 3000mV and for StartupVoltage 700mV. The torque sensor type was set to sensitive and the speed steps were set to an increasing percentage of the max power 20%, 40%, ... 100% ; and the PAS sensor must be disabled .

 

[Elinx]

Also, in terms of settings I pulled this from the German pedelec forum ....

PAS sensor, disabled
Torquesensor,, sensitive
ZeroVoltage, 500mV
MaxVoltage, 3000mV
StartupVoltage, 700mV
Speed steps, 20%, 40%, ... 100%

Yes, I had linked to these settings too, some are a bit different and I want to note that these are made for a DM02 in comparision with a stock Tsdz2.
It seems that the range of the torque sensor is set a bit wider (500-3000) in comparison with the settings (700-2700) from the YT comments, which were set for a DM01 with the latest FW

Maybe it made some difference, maybe not.

 

[17mph18a]

Does anyone know if the Tongsheng 1T2 cable that splits the speed sensor and light connectors is compatible with the ToSeven DM02? It seems a curious omission from the kit and was wondering if that might be an easy solution to adding ebike lights.

 

[Elinx]

... Tongsheng 1T2 cable that splits the speed sensor and light connectors is compatible with the ToSeven DM02? ...

imho that chance will be very small. The To7 Dm02 is a complete different design.

 

[Ianane]

I fully agree, but must add that it is not clear what went wrong with the early batch sold by PSWPower.
imho this wasn't expected by Toseven.

Had this not happened, the Toseven engines motors would not even be known yet and Toseven would have had more time to introduce them.
Now the damage is done and Toseven has to get to work to put everything back in order and to gain confidence.
A number of independent reviews, good availability and price would certainly contribute to this.

Also some support pages on the Toseven website will help in positive way, so it is possible to see a faq and you can download manuals and firmware updates.

Also, imho, positive is that Alex (@Olek.x), as a representive of Toseven, is here once in a while.
OK, he has his reasons and is selective what he want and can tell us, but never seen someone from Tongsheng or Bafang.

I've had a DM02 for about 10 days now, Tweaked the settings to suit me and I like this motor a lot. In the 10 days I've done 230kms and climbed over 3500m. Now that I am familiar with the settings menu, I have programmed 'City' mode to max at 15 amps and it is sufficient for all my climbing so far... up to 20%. I have programmed 'Sports' mode to max at 19 amps but have never really needed to use it... but it is nice to know the extra power is there.
The hardware of this motor seems to be top-notch, I no longer feel the need for something more. The Software is still a work in progress but that is easily updated as it improves... easy for nearly anyone that frequents Endless Sphere.
I come from a backgound of Front and Rear hubs, TSDZ2 with mbrusa OSF on my builds and Shimano, Bosch and Giant / Yamaha motors on borrowed bikes over 3 years, 10,000km and 190,000m elevation gain.

 

[Ianane]

PAS sensor, disabled
Torquesensor,, sensitive
ZeroVoltage, 500mV
MaxVoltage, 3000mV
StartupVoltage, 700mV
Speed steps, 20%, 40%, ... 100%

Yes, I had linked to these settings too, some are a bit different and I want to note that these are made for a DM02 in comparision with a stock Tsdz2.
It seems that the range of the torque sensor is set a bit wider (500-3000) in comparison with the settings (700-2700) from the YT comments, which were set for a DM01 with the latest FW

Maybe it made some difference, maybe not.

The settings I'm happy-ish with at the moment are based on Olek/Alex's with a bit of me thrown in

"Speed and Power"
Speed - What-ever
Power - Level 1 = 20%, 2 = 40%, 3 = 60%, 4 = 80% and 5 = 100%

"Controller"
Eco max 8amps
City max 15amps
Sport max 19amps

"PAS"
Type - Low
Startup Count - 1
Filter Count - 1
Keep Time - 200ms
Max Speed RPM - 120 (not sure this makes much difference as long as it is over your peak cadence)

"Torque Sensor"
Activate - Enable
Mode - Safe ( Alex recommended 'Sensitive' but after the motor engaging after knocking my pedals - I change to 'Safe')
ZeroVoltage - 500
StartUp net Voltage - 700
Keep Angle - 60
MinOut Current - 0
Filter - 5
Strength Value - 10

 

[Elinx]

I

The settings I'm happy-ish with at the moment are based on Olek/Alex's with a bit of me thrown in
....

I understand the latest firmware version has usable default basic settings and a factory reset is also possible from now on.

I still hope that ToSeven will publish a settings guide soon.

 

[Ianane]

Does anyone know if the Tongsheng 1T2 cable that splits the speed sensor and light connectors is compatible with the ToSeven DM02? It seems a curious omission from the kit and was wondering if that might be an easy solution to adding ebike lights.

My sketchy understanding is that it is not. Prepared to be wrong here but I was not game to try it from some things I've read. Be rally sad if it is because I have just cut up a wiring loom to directly feed the power from the battery. But I will see if I can find an answer

 

[Ianane]

I

I understand the latest firmware version has usable default basic settings and a factory reset is also possible from now on.

I still hope that ToSeven will publish a settings guide soon.

I've got the hardware to flash and the files but I haven't done it yet... I'm about to be seperated from my bike for 10 days so will flash when I get back. As a digital immigrant I find it all a bit bewildering so I like to have a clear path of time and space to do things like this.

 

[Griepje]

Manuals.

 

[Griepje]

The settings I'm happy-ish with at the moment are based on Olek/Alex's with a bit of me thrown in

"Speed and Power"
Speed - What-ever
Power - Level 1 = 20%, 2 = 40%, 3 = 60%, 4 = 80% and 5 = 100%

"Controller"
Eco max 8amps
City max 15amps
Sport max 19amps

"PAS"
Type - Low
Startup Count - 1
Filter Count - 1
Keep Time - 200ms
Max Speed RPM - 120 (not sure this makes much difference as long as it is over your peak cadence)

"Torque Sensor"
Activate - Enable
Mode - Safe ( Alex recommended 'Sensitive' but after the motor engaging after knocking my pedals - I change to 'Safe')
ZeroVoltage - 500
StartUp net Voltage - 700
Keep Angle - 60
MinOut Current - 0
Filter - 5
Strength Value - 10

i lowered all assist levels, needing it mostly as a little help instead of it doing almost all the work.

Be sure to set the torque on safe mode when you don’t use their break handles. I destroyed my nylon gear at a traffic light, foot on the pedal and hands on the breaks. The motor gave full startup boost while i was blocking it by breaking.
I increased the startupcount both on pas and torque.
I also limited the startup power to prevent making wheelies all the time when driving away.
Lowered the supportlevels to between 20% on level 1 to 80% on level 5. Now on level 1 I easily peddle 30km/h which is above the European limit of 25km/h, keeping my range as big as possible.

Manuals.

 

[Elinx]

...
Be sure to set the torque on safe mode when you don’t use their break handles. I destroyed my nylon gear at a traffic light, foot on the pedal and hands on the breaks. The motor gave full startup boost while i was blocking it by breaking.....

I think this is a very helpfull comment for new users.

About startup count and power....
Is it possible to publice a complete list of your "EU friendly" settings?

 

[pxl666]

I think this is a very helpfull comment for new users.

About startup count and power....
Is it possible to publice a complete list of your "EU friendly" settings?

is it possible to see the bike and read something more about build ? motor source ? prices , hacks , problems ?

 

[Elinx]

is it possible to see the bike and read something more about build ? motor source ? prices , hacks , problems ?

Most is published on the HV discord group and Youtube.
Now the settings have been improved, the reviews are generally positive.
Still no EU source, so ordering directly from Toseven, which means besides the price of the motor, also shipping costs and taxes.
No hacks yet. No real problems anymore with latest FW versions, most are wishes like choice for other display, gears, tools, brakes etc.

imho the biggest problem is to find a way with the extremely customizable controllersoftware, because there is no guide of it.
As @Griepje has already noticed. With the wrong setting it is possible to get mechanical problems.

 

[Griepje]

is it possible to see the bike and read something more about build ? motor source ? prices , hacks , problems ?

 

[Griepje]

Koga Worldtraveler with 14 speed rohloff hub 42 teeth front.

Dm02 directly from to7

With the settings from the fotos in the last post ,i’m using mostly level 1 and 2, i’m able to climb every hill and keep decent speeds. The bike is designed to do bike traveling with campinggear in about any circumstances without motor.

Still testing and fiddling with the settings to make it as smooth as possible. For now i think its much sturdier then the tongsheng, which i liked a lot exept for it falling apart in many ways all the time, time will tell how reliable the dm02 really is.

 

[pxl666]

sounds good . these options really make me happy

 

[adamtorba]

Koga Worldtraveler with 14 speed rohloff hub 42 teeth front.

Dm02 directly from to7

With the settings from the fotos in the last post ,i’m using mostly level 1 and 2, i’m able to climb every hill and keep decent speeds. The bike is designed to do bike traveling with campinggear in about any circumstances without motor.

Still testing and fiddling with the settings to make it as smooth as possible. For now i think its much sturdier then the tongsheng, which i liked a lot exept for it falling apart in many ways all the time, time will tell how reliable the dm02 really is.

Koga makes one of the most beautiful and robust alu frames. I really love these Dutch bikes and I’m glad your Koga converts easily.
Please keep us posted in how DM02 performs with your bike. Are you using 52V battery? Is it getting hot and does thermal protection work and throttling the motor when needed? Is the torque sensing responsive and smooth?

 

[Griepje]

Koga makes one of the most beautiful and robust alu frames. I really love these Dutch bikes and I’m glad your Koga converts easily.
Please keep us posted in how DM02 performs with your bike. Are you using 52V battery? Is it getting hot and does thermal protection work and throttling the motor when needed? Is the torque sensing responsive and smooth?

Yes, koga’s are the best. Bought my first when i was 18 and ride it for 35 years at least 200k km. Still have it as a spare bike, its hard to get parts tough..

I don’t use throttle, torque is fine, still fiddling with the settings, did 160 km with it this
week. Support on 20% on level 1 gets me 30km/h which is mostly enough for me.

I use a 48 volt battery

 

[sysrq]

Support on 20% on level 1 gets me 30km/h which is mostly enough for me.

Is that 20% grade incline? Even BBSHD only goes 25km/h on a 17% grade incline at 15-20 Amps on assist level 9 with fully charged 52V battery.

 

[Yanis]

Is that 20% grade incline? Even BBSHD only goes 25km/h on a 17% grade incline at 15-20 Amps on assist level 9 with fully charged 52V battery.

He means that assist level 1 gives 20% of total available power.

 

[Griepje]

Is that 20% grade incline? Even BBSHD only goes 25km/h on a 17% grade incline at 15-20 Amps on assist level 9 with fully charged 52V battery.

Its the dm 02 its not that powerfull, I didn’t actually check what speed i get with full power and no speedlimits to the max. I’m quite certain that it delivers a little more power then the tsdz B from tongsheng. I hope it proves to be much more dureble though. For me its important that i get to my pianostudents in time in any weather condition. Preferably a little bit faster also. The Tongsheng served well enough for that but i had to repair it like every 2 to 3 months, replace it after 1-1.5 years. Even broke a motorhousing in two once. The mainbearing of the tsdz2B lasted a bout 3 months even though i placed extra bearings on the left and the right of the bottom bracket. There is no european made quality bearing to replace it with as far as i know.

Also i bought the tongsheng stuff at pswpower and they let me down bigtime, still waiting for a bearing ordered in may, they say its delivered and signed for while at this day we where on holliday. After i told them that they just stopped reacting. No money back, no nothing. Never again. Also advertised warranty on the pswpower website is in reality non existent. So with Pswpower if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.

 

[pxl666]

Its the dm 02 its not that powerfull, I didn’t actually check what speed i get with full power and no speedlimits to the max. I’m quite certain that it delivers a little more power then the tsdz B from tongsheng. I hope it proves to be much more dureble though. For me its important that i get to my pianostudents in time in any weather condition. Preferably a little bit faster also. The Tongsheng served well enough for that but i had to repair it like every 2 to 3 months, replace it after 1-1.5 years. Even broke a motorhousing in two once. The mainbearing of the tsdz2B lasted a bout 3 months even though i placed extra bearings on the left and the right of the bottom bracket. There is no european made quality bearing to replace it with as far as i know.

Also i bought the tongsheng stuff at pswpower and they let me down bigtime, still waiting for a bearing ordered in may, they say its delivered and signed for while at this day we where on holliday. After i told them that they just stopped reacting. No money back, no nothing. Never again. Also advertised warranty on the pswpower website is in reality non existent. So with Pswpower if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.

paying with paypal helps . you just get the money back

 

[Griepje]

paying with paypal helps . you just get the money back

I might have payed with paypal. Gonna check that. Thanx

 

[marvin78]

Also i bought the tongsheng stuff at pswpower and they let me down bigtime, still waiting for a bearing ordered in may, they say its delivered and signed for while at this day we where on holliday. After i told them that they just stopped reacting. No money back, no nothing. Never again. Also advertised warranty on the pswpower website is in reality non existent. So with Pswpower if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.

That hasn't been my experience so far at least, but I'll give it a check next week. Had a pedal strike this week, not hard enough to go down but hard enough that the threads are now crooked on the left side crank. Should fall under warranty right Still rideable but having my pedal at a weird angle feels .. weird.

Also, why are you blaming a seller for problem with a delivery service? If DHL marked your package as delivered, your issue is with them not the store which can not do anything but check if DHL says the order has been delivered.