Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

[qlqlqlp]

Hi, I'm looking to get a tongsheng tsdz2 and I came across this alternative from "TOSEVEN" on psw power website

TOSEVEN Mid Drive Motor Kit

TOSEVEN Mid Drive Motor Kit

www.pswpower.com

I asked them the difference/benefit/pros/cons and they replied that it has a different torque sensor and sent the attached pic. I have no idea what this means or if it is better or makes it worth the risk of trying the lesser known/supported motor.

Any thoughts appreciated from those who know about these things, thanks!

 

[szkuba]

I have also seen those motors recently. Especially interesting is the higher power model that could beat Bafang stronger model with torque sensing capability. Looks like the torque sensor is kind od more advanced type than TSDZ hovewer we dont know how the software is tuned and if it offer any advanced setup capabilities...

 

[hemo]

This to me looks like a tsdz2 upgrade /rebrand following the court case that Bafang won against Tonsgsheng. Not many sites were selling the tSDZ2 by name or under the Tongsheng name. My one from RisunUK came with the tsdz2 manual in chinese but was named on the paper under another obscure brand name.
Could be the new model with the new controller that doesn't work with the OSF .

 

[Two4Seven SuprDan]

I am interested in learning more about these....

 

[qlqlqlp]

Could be the new model with the new controller that doesn't work with the OSF .

Hi, do you think that matters that much? I read on a thread discussing it that the original firmware is still decent and not much to be gained by fiddling with it?

 

[hemo]

Reply from To7 on the UK Pedelecs forum.

The new DM-01 and DM-02 are not a derivative of the tongsheng Motors. They are a new design
There is some influence as the lead engineer was the engineer responsible for producing the tongsheng motors who's came over to form the new company

the new design is focused on build quality and reliability. They can withstand a lot more power

we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development

we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this

being a step up there is an increase in price.
We don't intend to be dragged into competing on price. We will aim to deliver a quality product with warranty/ servicing and spares availability

if anymore questions please let me know

thanks
Alex

 

[hemo]

We know the internal gearing is higher then the tsdz2, something like 53:1 now.

Also the reason why outwardly the new To7 mid drive looks similar in design then.

 

[szkuba]

Seems they use magnetic encoder instead od hall sensors which should be more precise. Great that they are looking for the community support in regards to software developement. I am curious if they already been looking into OSF for TSDZ2?

 

[stancecoke]

Third thread with the same topic...

Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

Hi, I'm looking to get a tongsheng tsdz2 and I came across this alternative from "TOSEVEN" on psw power website https://www.pswpower.com/collections/toseven-mid-drive-motor-kit-15 I asked them the difference/benefit/pros/cons and they replied that it has a different torque sensor and sent the...

endless-sphere.com

new Chinese conversion mid motors that nobody knows ?

hey anybody knows these ? specs ? price ? where to buy ? pls don't tell me to ask Chinese salesman as this reminds me of talking to the AI running on c64...no offense but they either pretend to be stupid or...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Elinx]

To avoid too much defragmentation on the same topic I moved my post to this ToSeven discussion thread.

---

On the Tsdz2 main topic there were some mentions too of this new midmotor which is almost the same as the Tongsheng Tsdz2b.
This because PSWPower sell this motor under the URL of Tongsheng and that was given some confusion.

It is about the ToSeven DM-01 and DM-02.



On pedelecs.co.uk there is a confirmation of an employee of To7 that there is some relation with Tongsheng, but it is a new design

---

quote:
1 - Is the Toseven mid drive a derivative of the TSDZ2 and if so, what are the advantages of the Toseven over the TSDZ2
2 - if the Toseven is a new design, how do you view it in comparison to the TSDZ2, that is, how has it been improved?
3 - One of the great features of the TSDZ2 is to be able to fine tune it with the Open Source Firmware. Does the OSF work with the Toseven or are there similar software tools to alter the Toseven ride characteristics?

---

quote:
The new DM-01 and DM-02 are not a derivative of the tongsheng Motors. They are a new design
There is some influence as the lead engineer was the engineer responsible for producing the tongsheng motors who's came over to form the new company
the new design is focused on build quality and reliability. They can withstand a lot more power
we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development
we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this being a step up there is an increase in price.
We don't intend to be dragged into competing on price. We will aim to deliver a quality product with warranty/ servicing and spares availability

if anymore questions please let me know

thanks
Alex

---

Here you can find the websites of ToSeven:

ToSeven Motors - eBike Motor Manufacturer

ToSeven Motors: Your partner in e-bike innovation. Experience our top-quality, high-performance electric bicycle motors.

to7motor.com

Toseven_Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd.

Suzhou Toseven New Energy Technology Co., Ltd. established in 2021,which is a professional electric bicycle motor manufacturer that integrating R&D, production, sales and after-sales departments. Our R&D team is composed of many top technical experts who have been in the industry of E-bike motor...

to7motor.cn

So this looks a solid new design with torque sensor for a reasonable price.
Now it on the first users to share their experiences with this motor.
Because we all know: New design>>>New positives and New negatives

DM-01

DM01 E-bike Mid-Drive Motor

DM01 E-bike Mid-Drive Motor. It has a light wheight, high durability and low maintenance. Equipped with Torque Sensor / Cadence Sensor.

to7motor.com

DM-02

DM02 Ebike Mid-Drive Motor - To7motor

DM02 Ebike Mid-Drive Motor. Competitive Pricing E-Bike Mid-Drive Motor with Enhanced Features. achieve good mute effect, with high gear ratio (40.27).

to7motor.com

Installation video of the DM-01 on a bike




Some information from PSWpower I have attached.

 

[Elinx]

.... I read on a thread discussing it that the original firmware is still decent ....

Which thread on which forum?

You could be right, because they claim a FOC vector controller

 

[Yanis]

One funny thing about the DM02 is that it looks very similar to the TSDZ2, but they have changed the position of the controller : it is now facing the front of the bike. This doesn't favor airflow on the motor area, but wouldn't be a problem if they suppressed the air gaps around the motor (like they seem to have done on the DM01).

 

[Mr.Flibble]

Hi, do you think that matters that much? I read on a thread discussing it that the original firmware is still decent and not much to be gained by fiddling with it?

The original firmware is very good, but it has a cadence limit if around 80.
This makes it's pretty crap for mtb............ but still great for everything else.

The OSF ups the cadance and makes it a bit more efficient.

 

[Elinx]

The original firmware is very good, but it has a cadence limit if around 80.
...

If we talking about the DM-02
It has a FOC vector controller, which should be more efficient.
The max. RPM is 5000 and imho the max cadence is 100.

 

[Elinx]

@stancecoke
I saw your thread on the German forum and your observation about the To7 torque sensor operation, compared to Shengy.
Interesting to see how that works.
Thanks


NB.
Interesting reply from To7 to @pxl666 comment

 

[qlqlqlp]

Which thread on which forum?

You could be right, because they claim a FOC vector controller

Here but to clarify they're talking about tsdz2 and it's from Sept 2021:

850c or 860c for TSDZ2?

I'm a total novice at this and have no knowledge of electronics, but I've recently converted my bike with a TSDZ2. I thought I'd have a go at a new controller/display and flash it to see the results. First I can only fined the 850c controller ready to use with the TSDZ2. Is there any advantage...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

"I've had mine now for over 2 years and have ridden over 1500miles with stock firmware on both. As an electronics engineer, I don't understand the need to change anything, it works just fine for me. When I first bought the kit I was all fired up to experiment and change the firmware up but the kit has been just brilliant and I now see no need to risk whatever untoward outcomes there inevitably will be when messing about with this stuff. I just can't see the point - it does everything and more I could ever wish for with stock firmware."

 

[Elinx]

Here but to clarify they're talking about tsdz2 and it's from Sept 2021:

....

OK, I understand now. It is a bit confusing for me inside a thread about ToSeven motor.

 

[Olek.x]

I got forwarded your email! Will get back to you with responses shortly both here and in the email

Thanks

Alex

 

[Elinx]

"I got forwarded your email! Will get back to you with responses shortly both here and in the email"

@Olek.x
Alex, Thanks for your response
I look forward to it.

 

[Olek.x]

"I got forwarded your email! Will get back to you with responses shortly both here and in the email"

@Olek.x
Alex, Thanks for your response
I look forward to it.

In regards to the questions on heat please see the attached image. This isn't from the DM-02 but its been done in a similar way. Just had no DM-02 cases to take a picture of but will get a picture and post a drawing

 

[Olek.x]

This is another motor in development along the same lines to be fitted by manufacturers.

So yes its a different case but the motor itself is mounted in a similar way. It was late at night in the factory and its the best example i could find to hand.

 

[Yanis]

In regards to the questions on heat please see the attached image. This isn't from the DM-02 but its been done in a similar way. Just had no DM-02 cases to take a picture of but will get a picture and post a drawing

This design will improve heat dissipation a lot compared to the TSDZ2, great !

 

[Elinx]

... questions on heat .... This isn't from the DM-02 but its been done in a similar way. .... will get a picture and post a drawing

With such a construction the gap between stator and case is minimized and will benefit the heat dissipation. Imho with some heat conductive paste it will be optimal.

 

[Olek.x]

O

With such a construction the gap between stator and case is minimized and will benefit the heat dissipation. Imho with some heat conductive paste it will be optimal.

Do you have recommendations on the paste you would use and i will look into it
Thanks

Alex

 

[Elinx]

..
Do you have recommendations on the paste...

Not really, it depends how big the gap is in reallity.
Thermal grease or paste works normally for a very small gap. (second picture left side)
If the gap is bigger, you can use thermal pads that exist in different thicknesses.
The best is to choose for as high as possible conductivity like 5 to 8 W/(m·K), to fill the airgaps between motor and housing.

On the picture the improvement above tsdz2 is already a lot more, but as you said it isn't the DM-02, only simular.
With Tsdz2 it is about 6mm around the stator, a bit more than 2 mm on the top and 1mm at the axle side of the bare motor.