Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

[raylo32]

And yet there appears to be no way to make a purchase on your website. So, then where are they available?? Or the better question is: ARE they really available anywhere?

Toseven Motors Grow your business (to7motor.com)

DM01 Mid Motor System (to7motor.com)

We don't sell motors to pswpower
Psw power don't have 48v motors. They can only be bought directly from us at the moment

 

[Elinx]

I have downloaded the product catalog and to my surprise I see, on page 10, that there are two versions of the DM-01 and DM-02.
An L version with torquesensor "available"
An S version with torquesensor "negative"

This looks to me that you can choose for the presence of a torquesensor or not.
Could this difference be the source of "missing torque sensing" problems too?

Could it be that PSWPower does sell the S version?
How could we be sure to order the right DM-0x if there is no mention of L or S?

I see on the pictures of the paper sticker 1000L and 500L
Is this L the relevant designation for the presence of a torque sensor?
Besides the sticker, are there other outer signs of the presence or absence of a torquesensor?

 

[endlessolli]

Good catch!
… it also states different BB axle and chainline sizes for with and without TorqueSensor. (So they should also look slightly different.)
-> If I am not misreading this, the TS equipped motors do not fit bikes w/ the std 68 mm BB?!?

 

[Elinx]

.....
-> If I am not misreading this, the TS equipped motors do not fit bikes w/ the std 68 mm BB?!

More and more questions coming up
I hope To7 will sorting this out.

 

[daho11]

Yes, these motors are with TS or PAS. I ordered L, with TS, but still not work as TS. I am in touch with Toseven, now wait for reply, how to fix TS on my DM02.

 

[Elinx]

Yes, these motors are with TS or PAS..... with TS, but still not work as TS..........

Interesting info inside that user manual, thanks.

Only speculating, but because there are no outer signs (besides the paper sticker) to see the difference between L and S version it could be that they installed wrong FW or the motor could be setup for the wrong version. Or ... the wrong sticker has been applied.

Some observations in the user manual:
The manual is from may 2022
On every page header you see, besides "ToSeven", "Buffalo" too
On the last page you see revisions with dates from sep. 2020

 

[Matze_Senpai]

so DM02 only work with 36v battery? seems like a downgrade from the tsdz2. also why even offer version without torque sensor? makes everything more complicated

 

[Elinx]

so DM02 only work with 36v battery? ...

If you read the user manual, yes
If you read the product catalog, there should be too a 48V and 52V version.

I can imagine that development take place in stages and that these are not all published.
Also I can imagine that with such development there are setbacks too.
So maybe the 36V is for now and other available Voltages for later developments or specific reserved for DM01 version.
Also it could be that they now have a working basic version and they wait for specific questions of customers to choose a further development path.
I think we must wait what they offer in the future.

 

[Olek.x]

As mentioned, all motors have been shipped with the torque sensor set to safe mode.

I will upload a video on how to switch this off.

 

[pajn]

but because there are no outer signs (besides the paper sticker) to see the difference between L and S version

The bottom bracket has very different lengths. The L version doesn't fit on a standard 68mm bottom bracket. I was very excited for this motor but would need a 48V 68mm torque sensing version and right not it looks like that will not be a thing

 

[Elinx]

....The L version doesn't fit on a standard 68mm bottom bracket. ....

No, this was just an observation from @endlessolli, what is written in the product catalog. No more and no less.
In the user manual there is mentioned the 68-83mm version too and also in the product description on their website,
there they mention the 48V too
Imho all sold DM02 versions till now are 68-83mm 36V versions.

The only thing what we see for now is that there are differences in information, what we found out by comparing different sources.
Yes, they come all from ToSeven, but we don't know the "how, who and why".
Ofcourse this is confusing and reason for speculation, but no more than that.

Realize, the ToSeven DM0xx series isn't yet for sale through channels designated by ToSeven.
If that will be the case, we can expect the right information and some reviews.
With some patience everything will fall into place

 

[pajn]

No, this was just an observation from @endlessolli, what is written in the product catalog. No more and no less.
In the user manual there is mentioned the 68-83mm version too and also in the product description on their website,

Reading the product manual again I now see what you mean. Toseven seem to have applied an extreamly confusing naming scheme. The model number have an (can have? the S suffix here is sometimes missing) S or L suffix meaning "short" or "long" alas bottom bracket 68-73 mm or 100-110 mm, then the wattage also have a suffix L or S meaning torque sensing or speed/cadence. What a farce but in theory there should exist a DM02S-350L version alas short bottom bracket but torque sensing. So what probably happened with the pswpower batch is probably that they thought they wanted the "S-L" version meaning small and torque sensing but wasn't aware of the genious naming scheme so ordered the "S" version and got "S-S" meaning small and cadence sensing. I get a feeling it will be impossible to ever order this motor in the intended spec thanks to the naming scheme alone. Why isn't torque sensing vs cadence specified with T or C instead so there could be no mixup up which L and which S we are talking about?

From the manual:

 

[Elinx]

.... Toseven seem to have applied an extreamly confusing naming scheme. .

With your observation you are completely right.
How can they come up with a type numbering like that.
Imho this will even be confusing for ToSeven employees too and could be a source for mistakes
With a wrong or missing sticker you will be completely lost.

So what probably happened with the pswpower batch is probably that they thought they wanted the "S-L" version meaning small and torque sensing but wasn't aware of the genious naming scheme........

Ofcourse this is only speculation, because many things could be wrong with building, ordering and delivering. That is something we never will know

 

[Olek.x]

there's a video already uploaded to YouTube. It shows how to access advanced settings. Anyone with issues with the torque sensor should first check its both switched on and safe mode is switched off (these are different menu's)

By default from the factory the motor is currently coming with safe mode switched on.

 

[daho11]

Hi everyone,
I have TOSEVEN DM02 500W, but there was a problem with TS.
I receive hint from Alex to change TS status from SAFE to SENSITIVE.
That is the reason for TS not working.
Did it, TS works, but not so good as TSDZ2.

I have TSDZ2B 350W on my second bike and another ebike with Panasonic GX Ultimate motor, so I can compare it with TOSEVEN.


TSDZ2B:
- installed, no problems
- using factory FW
- I did thermal modification - thermal paste, aluminium shim between motor and chassis, aluminium shroud between motor and cover
- motor works without any problems
- torque sensor works sensitive as I expect, closely to Panasonic
- my wife tried Pan and TSDZ2B and she say:
Little difference between this two motors, I can using TSDZ2 too.

I using TSDZ2 mostly and agree. Ride with tongsheng is smooth and pleasant.


But I want using my fatbike as ebike, so I buy TOSEVEN DM02 500W for 100 mm BB.

TOSEVEN:
- installed, no problems
- LCD is great, with light sensor, many settings
- good quality
- motor can assist up to 140 rpm at cranks - great
- I supposed, that TOSEVEN will be stronger, better than TSDZ2, but:
- Toseven 500W is comparable to TSDZ2B 350W, minimal difference :-(
- set TS as SENSTITIVE - TS works now, I can see it in test on LCD - when pedaling harder, value in TS field grows,
but motor react for stronger pedaling only in first quarter or third and then gives full power
- power of motor during pedaling unstable, I can feel changes of motor power

- in PAS mode works great - you can set power in % for each level, I set: 30-40-50-80-100 %
- on LCD you can choose between ECO, CITY and SPORT mode.
I set:
ECO - 8 AMPS
CITY - 14 AMPS
SPORT - 18 AMPS
so I have 1-5 levels and 3 sublevels of power. That is great.


My conclusion:
If TONGSHENG make TSDZ2B for 100 mm BB, I will buy it.
Modified TSDZ has problems with breaking shaft, so I buy Toseven :-(


I dissapointed about TS and power, I preffered TS motors,
but I can use TOSEVEN in PAS mode.

I will ask Alex for another assistance and I ll see.

 

[Olek.x]

Hi everyone,
I have TOSEVEN DM02 500W, but there was a problem with TS.
I receive hint from Alex to change TS status from SAFE to SENSITIVE.
That is the reason for TS not working.
Did it, TS works, but not so good as TSDZ2.

I have TSDZ2B 350W on my second bike and another ebike with Panasonic GX Ultimate motor, so I can compare it with TOSEVEN.


TSDZ2B:
- installed, no problems
- using factory FW
- I did thermal modification - thermal paste, aluminium shim between motor and chassis, aluminium shroud between motor and cover
- motor works without any problems
- torque sensor works sensitive as I expect, closely to Panasonic
- my wife tried Pan and TSDZ2B and she say:
Little difference between this two motors, I can using TSDZ2 too.

I using TSDZ2 mostly and agree. Ride with tongsheng is smooth and pleasant.


But I want using my fatbike as ebike, so I buy TOSEVEN DM02 500W for 100 mm BB.

TOSEVEN:
- installed, no problems
- LCD is great, with light sensor, many settings
- good quality
-
- I supposed, that TOSEVEN will be stronger, better than TSDZ2, but:
- Toseven 500W is comparable to TSDZ2B 350W, minimal difference :-(
- set TS as SENSTITIVE - TS works now, I can see it in test on LCD - when pedaling harder, value in TS field grows,
but motor react for stronger pedaling only in first quarter or third and then gives full power
- power of motor during pedaling unstable, I can feel changes of motor power

- in PAS mode works great - you can set power in % for each level, I set: 30-40-50-80-100 %
- on LCD you can choose between ECO, CITY and SPORT mode.
I set:
ECO - 8 AMPS
CITY - 14 AMPS
SPORT - 18 AMPS
so I have 1-5 levels and 3 sublevels of power. That is great.


My conclusion:
If TONGSHENG make TSDZ2B for 100 mm BB, I will buy it.
Modified TSDZ has problems with breaking shaft, so I buy Toseven :-(


I dissapointed about TS and power, I preffered TS motors,
but I can use TOSEVEN in PAS mode.

I will ask Alex for another assistance and I ll see.

I think there is something wrong with your motor as ours is most definitely more powerful, you seem to have an intermittent fault. I thinking you should continue with the replacement process

 

[Olek.x]

Hi everyone,
I have TOSEVEN DM02 500W, but there was a problem with TS.
I receive hint from Alex to change TS status from SAFE to SENSITIVE.
That is the reason for TS not working.
Did it, TS works, but not so good as TSDZ2.

I have TSDZ2B 350W on my second bike and another ebike with Panasonic GX Ultimate motor, so I can compare it with TOSEVEN.


TSDZ2B:
- installed, no problems
- using factory FW
- I did thermal modification - thermal paste, aluminium shim between motor and chassis, aluminium shroud between motor and cover
- motor works without any problems
- torque sensor works sensitive as I expect, closely to Panasonic
- my wife tried Pan and TSDZ2B and she say:
Little difference between this two motors, I can using TSDZ2 too.

I using TSDZ2 mostly and agree. Ride with tongsheng is smooth and pleasant.


But I want using my fatbike as ebike, so I buy TOSEVEN DM02 500W for 100 mm BB.

TOSEVEN:
- installed, no problems
- LCD is great, with light sensor, many settings
- good quality
- motor can assist up to 140 rpm at cranks - great
- I supposed, that TOSEVEN will be stronger, better than TSDZ2, but:
- Toseven 500W is comparable to TSDZ2B 350W, minimal difference :-(
- set TS as SENSTITIVE - TS works now, I can see it in test on LCD - when pedaling harder, value in TS field grows,
but motor react for stronger pedaling only in first quarter or third and then gives full power
- power of motor during pedaling unstable, I can feel changes of motor power

- in PAS mode works great - you can set power in % for each level, I set: 30-40-50-80-100 %
- on LCD you can choose between ECO, CITY and SPORT mode.
I set:
ECO - 8 AMPS
CITY - 14 AMPS
SPORT - 18 AMPS
so I have 1-5 levels and 3 sublevels of power. That is great.


My conclusion:
If TONGSHENG make TSDZ2B for 100 mm BB, I will buy it.
Modified TSDZ has problems with breaking shaft, so I buy Toseven :-(


I dissapointed about TS and power, I preffered TS motors,
but I can use TOSEVEN in PAS mode.

I will ask Alex for another assistance and I ll see.

Can you set keep time to 200ms please

 

[Elinx]

Can you set keep time to 200ms please

Are there plans of ToSeven to publice a guide for setting up the DMxx ?
This way you know which effect every setting change has and what the default setting is.
From the Lierskogen video it looks to me a lot of settings you can change.

 

[sysrq]

A small update for the ones that are still interested in ToSeven.

For what I have seen ToSeven is, besides here on EndlessSphere, mentioned at several places:
Pedelecforum.de - Besides the description of the torquesensor and a comparision between DM-02 and Tsdz2 nothing new
Pedelecs.co.uk - Besides a lot irritating and sometimes aggressive trolls too, there is also sometimes interesting info. (For example @Blacklite will test the DM-02)
Discord.com (you must register to view content) - Most messages are about DM-01 as a BBSHD replacement. Imho it looks that a lot people don't care about torquesensing and only want more power.
One person (JS) has done a microreview of the DM-01, because it did run only for 10 minutes.

"some delay in assist. start/stop cadence. When stopping cadence, it applies power for 1 sec. torque no kick at low gears. Better in high gears.
Lacks sensitivity??. Throttle takeoff wasnt overly smooth either.
Stock display basic as it gets, dont see any programming funcitonality. Just 0-5 levels and speedometer.
dunno, 10 mins isnt whole lot to make a good overview
Hope this defect not design flaw.Nothing special to my setup/mount. BBSHD mounted identically and i used 4-5 kilowatts for years. Still works
Here i used.. max 1000 watts,.. for 8-10 minutes? Less than 1 volt on battery"

The reason was a modified BB that wasn't suitable enough for mounting the DM-01 rocksteady.
The DM-01 (and DM-02 problably too) is only secured by the BB locknut and does miss a second clamp (as with Tsdz2 and M625).
Toseven has made on custom request a batch without torquesensor for a big customer. Because of the mentioned assist delay, there was a (unverified) rumour that this party could sold the DM-01 without torquesensor to another retailer.

I think it might harder to balance on hills with a torque sensor. Trying to balance on long hills also uses your energy which is better preserved for flats especially during long distance commuting and touring. On hills it might be better to let the motor spin continuously using a throttle or cadence sensor at high speed to pull you up since with a torque sensor the current fluctuates too much. Torque sensor works out better on short steep hills at least with TSDZ2. According High Voltage channel on YouTube commuters and tourists are stuck with BBSHD since the reliability, spare parts, repairability for ToSeven and CYC Photon is unproven.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

is there any good reason why for example TOTAL POWER CONSUMPTION on display is shown in Ah instead of Wh?

 

[Elinx]

... TSDZ2-B mid motor is really the best choice.

In comparision with what?
ToSeven DM02 or other?

There aren't many experiences with ToSeven DM02 and I doubt you have tested one.
So for the moment you could be right.

But to be honest, imho your message looks more
on an advertisement with included flyer.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

In comparision with what?
ToSeven DM02 or other?

There aren't many experiences with ToSeven DM02 and I doubt you have tested one.
So for the moment you could be right.

But to be honest, imho your message looks more
on an advertisement with included flyer.

Because it is.
First post - check
Location Asia - check

 

[amberwolf]

They are a spammer for a company; I keep having to nuke their spam accounts and merge them with their original spam account.

 

[Bengy22]

Captain Codswallop got his dm-01 in the mail yesterday and posted a few photos in the HV discord, for anyone waiting for more youtube content I assume it shouldn't be long before he posts something on it

 

[szkuba]

I think it might harder to balance on hills with a torque sensor. Trying to balance on long hills also uses your energy which is better preserved for flats especially during long distance commuting and touring. On hills it might be better to let the motor spin continuously using a throttle or cadence sensor at high speed to pull you up since with a torque sensor the current fluctuates too much. Torque sensor works out better on short steep hills at least with TSDZ2. According High Voltage channel on YouTube commuters and tourists are stuck with BBSHD since the reliability, spare parts, repairability for ToSeven and CYC Photon is unproven.

Actually my experience is opposite. The PAS systems are good only when you have steady load. Offroad rides are not those. The trick is that you need to modulate the power on wheel and actually doing this by reading your effort with torque and cadense sensor is the best to provide still like bicycle feeling.