Aprilia Enjoy

[DCMotorworks]

Cheers Tony. No, i didn't buy that one. I live in USA, Washington state.

And Hiya Ken. Thank you and everyone else that has contributed here for all your input.

About disabling the speed limiter: I am pretty sure I read about it in this thread but there are 37 pages here as of this posting and I did read everything I could find on the net pertaining to this bike right after I brought it home and while I was waiting to see if the battery would take a charge so at the risk of being woefully redundant:

The speed limiter can be disabled by cutting the white wire which loops out of and back into the the controller.

That being said, I actually ran two wires and installed a small switch on the handlebars so I could turn the limiter on/off. I figured the bike would pull a lot more out of the battery with the limiter disabled and initially it was just an experiment that i wanted to be able to abort as quickly as possible.

From what i have gathered, It *seems* like the controller acts different in a few ways with the limiter disabled. Obviously, when disabled it continues to assist after the normal cut-off speed but additionally, the stock 3 position switch seems to act as a 3 tier speed limiting switch now rather than a 3 tier power level assist switch as before and i noticed that the motor will continue to run longer after I stop pedaling - hence the "huh, I'm going 25+ mph down a hill, not pedaling and the motor is still going. Cool?"

Anyways, that is what it feels like changes with the limiter disabled. Nothing scientific here. For the last 2 weeks or so I have been just taking short trips with this bike and I have just been leaving the limiter off and the 3 position power/speed switch on the "3" setting.

The Lifepo4 bottle pack innards I am thinking of using has a hard cut off BMS so if the "24v 250w" brushed motor pulls more than 20 amps I will know pretty much instantly on my first ride. Really tho, if it all holds together and I don't prematurely kill the old NiMH pack by my disabling of the limiter I probably won't do much of anything to this bike besides maybe sort out a secondary battery to carry on the rack to extend range. and maybe install that nexus internal 7 speed I have in my shed. and disc brakes. and I have 8 10AH headways that might fit nicely into that battery tray. and. NO. STOP. REALLY. I kinda like this bike how it is. Until something breaks...

DC

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimg407.imageshack.us%2Fimg407%2F9923%2Fbicicerchi.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jobike.it%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3FTOPIC_ID%3D14314%26whichpage%3D6&h=768&w=1024&tbnid=AtzYWa94KdZdKM%3A&zoom=1&q=aprilia%20enjoy&docid=_ySBMw_2PAVM5M&hl=en&ei=nTyaU8ekO4rMlAXXjICQCw&tbm=isch&ved=0CG8QMyhLMEs&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=2888&page=5&start=60&ndsp=17

This is a bit of unusual looking Aprilia !

 

[Hillhater]

I just hope that "hump" isnt covering up a set of SLA's !
Anyone with enough Italian to read the forum ?

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

Me no speakada Italaiano.

 

[Ken Taylor]

A while ago Hillhater mounted a good argument for powering the Aprilia with 18650 cells (see http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=18505&p=818147&hilit=battery#p818330) which I've wanted to follow up. However, I was keen to avoid battery pack building as last time it was a big tiresome effort.

I have a bunch of laptop 18650's that i have used for "dummy" fitting trials.
Even keeping the JCar project box's (90 x 150mm), i can fit 40 cells in each box easily, and i know the 3 box's fit inside the battery bay, ..So thats 120 cells @ 3.1 Ahr = 1.375 kWhr, or 38Ahr at 36 volt pack. !
If i dont use the box's, but simply build for max number of cells, i'm sure i could get well over 40 Ahr in there !
BUT.. as you point out , that would represent a major investment as those cells are retailing at > $10 each !
( Price/capacity is another part of the puzzle (compromise ?) that has to be juggled with these cells....unless your name is Packer !)
As i have rarely wanted for more range than my 15Ahr pack supplies, i wont be planning on a 100+ cell pack, but more like a 60cell, 20Ahr pack that gives me a little more range, 18-20 amps ( 1C) continuous, 30A (2C) bursts and only weighs 3kg.
.. now to find a more sensible priced source for good (genuine ) Cells !

I settled on a 60 cell manufactured pack from EM3EV. They are SDI INR18650-29E 2.75 AH, a little less than the suggested, 3.1AH but EM3EV rates them lower than the manufacturer. The battery box sells for US$30 so the per cell price including manufacturing is US$5.75 which is quite a bit higher than the:-

Some guys are paying a little as <$3 per cell for quality ( LG D1 3Ahr) new cells !

.
Airfreight is expensive but the amount attributable to the battery depends on how much other stuff you order.

The upside over Zippys is weight and volume. The pack is a nominal 16.5 AH and weighs 3.6kg without the unneeded mounting bracket. This is well above the 3kg Hillhater was aiming for and compares to 4.5 kg for 15 AH of Zippys. Standing vertically

the pack fits well. Lying flat

allows another 5AH Zippy pack to fit in the bay as well but requires allowing the bay sides to bulge.

Additionally, there is room to add the 10AH Zippy pack, with a bit of velcro to secure it.

This gives 31.5AH/1.13kw/hr at a weight of 8.1 kg. Working hard I can manage about 5wh/km so that would give a range of 200 km which is probably more than I can endure in a day.

 

[Hillhater]

Nice pack Ken.
What voltage did you go with ? ..10S 6P at 38volts nominal ??
I guess your US$ 5.75 per cell price includes having EM3EV assemble the pack into that neat box..
Is there a BMS included also ?
Maybe a different "box would allow the pack to fit easier into the Aprilia's "battery bay" ?
I take your point on range also, not many folk are likely to ride anything like that distance without a long break to recharge battery and body !

 

[Ken Taylor]

Nice pack Ken.
What voltage did you go with ? ..10S 6P at 38volts nominal ??

Yes 10S 6P but it's sold as 36V nominal. I don't think the Aprilia can go higher. Can it?

I guess your US$ 5.75 per cell price includes having EM3EV assemble the pack into that neat box..

Yes, excluding battery box cost. I got a spare battery box as well. From that I can see it has a led voltage level indicator and 5V USB supply but EM3EV didn't connect these. Not sure why. If you are thinking of doing this and you want to use the battery elsewhere, as well as for the Aprilia, you will need a spare plug which I got off the spare box.

Is there a BMS included also ?

Yes. The BMS can be switched on and off which is nice. Normally I have to remove the battery to avoid slow discharge into the electronics. It can only handle 2.5 amps charging though, so you can't recharge over lunch.

Maybe a different "box would allow the pack to fit easier into the Aprilia's "battery bay" ?

Yes, if you can find one. It is a bit tight but a huge plus not to have to make one.

I take your point on range also, not many folk are likely to ride anything like that distance without a long break to recharge battery and body !

Thinking some more, 150km would be a safer range. Partly because the Zippys produce less than nominal output and if the battery only gets to 180km, the last 20km are hell when you are already rat arsed. Of course pro bike riders do that distance day after day without assist, but I couldn't. The longest distance I've ridden the Aprilia was 165km with 3km of vertical. I consumed a nominal 33AH and 20km was unassisted. It was tough.

 

[Hillhater]

Nice pack Ken.
What voltage did you go with ? ..10S 6P at 38volts nominal ??

Yes 10S 6P but it's sold as 36V nominal. I don't think the Aprilia can go higher. Can it?
!

Voltage would depend on what controller you are using more than anything Aprilia fitted.
I regularly run my 10S Turnigy pack at 42+ volts hot off the charger.
Remember , more volts = more motor rpm = more wheel speed.
~40v gives me 50+ kph on the flat.
Most electrical components in these controllers will handle 50+ volts and possibly even 60+ V !
..But i personally dont have a desire for that capability :wink:

 

[Ken Taylor]

Voltage would depend on what controller you are using more than anything Aprilia fitted.

Yes you are right. I wasn't thinking.

Most electrical components in these controllers will handle 50+ volts and possibly even 60+ V !
..But i personally dont have a desire for that capability :wink:

It seems that apart from electrocution risk, higher voltage is always better because you get a wider power band. Is that right? This is less important in a mid drive though as you only need the same power band as human legs.

 

[DCMotorworks]

I just returned home from a thoroughly enjoyable 40 min rain soaked ride. I think my 2Kw commuter is getting jealous of the time I am spending riding the Aprilia.

This bike really needs a lithium upgrade. Anyone know offhand how many volts the stock controller can safely handle? I know this question has been answered here but there is 38 pages of info. next time I read through the whole thread I'll take notes.

I was thinking of using one of the 8s Lifepo4 packs i have ( 29.2v hot off the charger) but I also have an 8s Lipo pack I could use (33.6v HotC). is the Lifepo4 or the Lipo too high voltage? seems like I have only seen about 26V from the stock NiMh pack, fully charged.

I really need to reread this whole thread. But I have to change out of these wet cycling clothes first.

DC

 

[ducatiluke]

i got an aprilia enjoy city
still has the origional tyres and little nobs on the tyres
its been sitting probably from new with very little use
what are they worth origional battery still charges up
iam in adelaide sa

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

Does it work?

 

[ducatiluke]

ive got a one aprilia enjoy city
sitting in shed for years
little use
does not go $500
Adelaide south australia
ducatiluke@hotmail.com
0421491575

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

Aprilias that do not work are only selling for about $200, if you are lucky. One sold in Sydney recently for around the $150 mark. It had a dodgy battery. I bought 2 in Sydney a couple of months ago. Both worked but without batteries. I paid $400 for both of them.

Good luck.

 

[Samd]

Top voltage comes down to two things - the voltage the controller can handle, but also for brushed motors the voltage where the brushes start to shoot current arcs due to higher potential.

DC based cars often have to play with the timing of the motor (just like on a car's distributor) to avoid any commutator arcs when pushing the voltage well beyond spec.

Sam.

 

[Ken Taylor]

There must be a way to delete a post but I couldn't find it.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Top voltage comes down to two things - the voltage the controller can handle, but also for brushed motors the voltage where the brushes start to shoot current arcs due to higher potential.

That's useful. Just out of curiosity has anyone tried higher than 10S Lipo which while nominal 36V can be as high as 41V or has anyone had trouble with brushes? Also thanks, samd, for suggesting the Bofeili as an alternative to the Bafang.

 

[Hillhater]

Top voltage comes down to two things - the voltage the controller can handle, but also for brushed motors the voltage where the brushes start to shoot current arcs due to higher potential.

That's useful. Just out of curiosity has anyone tried higher than 10S Lipo which while nominal 36V can be as high as 41V or has anyone had trouble with brushes? Also thanks, samd, for suggesting the Bofeili as an alternative to the Bafang.

All i can say is i have been running 10S for 4-5 years now and when i stripped the motor out in Feb for the gear problem, the armature looked much like i remember before the conversion....in as new condition !
Actually i had posted a photo of that armature on here back in Feb but the pics all seem to have disappeared ???
I will repost them again !

 

[Ken Taylor]

All i can say is i have been running 10S for 4-5 years now and when i stripped the motor out in Feb for the gear problem, the armature looked much like i remember before the conversion....in as new condition !
Actually i had posted a photo of that armature on here back in Feb but the pics all seem to have disappeared ???
I will repost them again !

Reposting pictures seems a lot of effort. My brushes and armature looked good too on 10S.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

What makes the whining noise in the Aprilias motor?

I have noticed that the bike that has the NuVinci hub makes more noise when I am riding it than the other bikes with the normal drivetrain. I don't think there are any issues with the motor or gearbox.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[Ken Taylor]

What makes the whining noise in the Aprilias motor?

I have noticed that the bike that has the NuVinci hub makes more noise when I am riding it than the other bikes with the normal drivetrain. I don't think there are any issues with the motor or gearbox.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

I was wondering that too. I suspect the brushes, partly because the volume changes when you vary the motor current. I used to get complaints about the whine on a group ride and it also advertises to the group when you aren't hacking it and need help. The BBS01 on the Lance can't be heard, which is nice.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks Ken,

I wondered if it might be the brushes. I would really like to buy an Optibike R11 one day when I can afford one but I am put off by the noise their motors make. I haven't heard one in the flesh but I have read and seen videos about the "whine" they make and that puts me right off. These older designed Optibikes have brushed motors.
I have a Zoco Rossa with a brushless 500W mid mounted motor and a NuVinci hub and it is fairly quiet. I also have a Lee Iacocca EVG global E bike that came with a 500w brushed hub motor and I could not ride it as pedestrians would turn around to see what the hell was coming up behind them.
I have replaced the rear hub motor with a Dillenger 48v 1000w direct drive brushless hub motor. It is virtually silent.

Is there anything that can be done to the brushes to make them quieter. I am guessing not.

What is the BBS01 on the Lance ?

 

[Ken Taylor]

Is there anything that can be done to the brushes to make them quieter. I am guessing not.

You said one is worse than the other so you should be able to get them the same. I'd try checking the condition of the brushes and commutator and I'd check the armature bushes but I don't know.

What is the BBS01 on the Lance ?

There is a thread on the BBS01 here and one entry on it describes the Lance. It carried me 106 km today with a group that would normally leave me in their wake. Over the hardest 13km section I needed assist averaging about 70 watts at the wheel to keep up.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

The Lance is a great looking bike Ken. Have you got a link to its evolution? Was is named after Lance Armstrong?

 

[Hillhater]

I'm not sure the brushes are the only source of the Aprilias noise.
Each time I have re lubed or replaced the gear train inside the box, I have noticed a much quieter ride.
It doesn't last long, a few days only, but certainly much quieter.