Bafang M500/M600 thread
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ornias
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I've added some more custom firmwares to try at your own risk.
This time I've modified all m600 firmwares so they are accepted by BESST to flash on a m500 motor.
Initial review seems to indicate this was successfull.
Is this safe? Technically speaking at least some revisions of the m500 have half the MOSFETS. However: the m600 MOSFET setup is also capable of handling well over 2000W load and both the electromotor and controllerboard have temperature sensores included. So I'm pretty certain that the m500 board would be able to handle the 1000w peak load (18-20a, 48v)
This time I've modified all m600 firmwares so they are accepted by BESST to flash on a m500 motor.
Initial review seems to indicate this was successfull.
Is this safe? Technically speaking at least some revisions of the m500 have half the MOSFETS. However: the m600 MOSFET setup is also capable of handling well over 2000W load and both the electromotor and controllerboard have temperature sensores included. So I'm pretty certain that the m500 board would be able to handle the 1000w peak load (18-20a, 48v)
ornias
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Kyokushin said:
The heat production between 750 and 1000 would be about 5 watt per MOSFET. So I donnot really get why you worry so much. The powertrain is verywell capable of dealing with 1KW peak on the m500.
But maybe our Board Guru could answer it, to give you more certainty @4πr^2, the m500 has half the MOSFETS of the m600. Would that board still be able to deal with 1000w peak load?
That being said:
I'm currently looking for the following firmwares for the m600 (taking into account which might be around from Bafang themselves):
- More 43v firmwares (20A and something lower would be interesting)
- A 48V 20A firmware
- A 36V 20A firmware
Kyokushin said:
I can't see the peak power on mine (too short characters) in use, but I'm agree with you, i find the M600 too much for my use, i need to use 9 mode to have less powerfull 1st level and i use 5 level at max. I whould like could using in 3 modes onlywith the 1st level less power full than the first of nine. Or an M500 with the level 3 on 3 a bit more powerfull (+- = at M600 level 5/9).
I whould like also the possibility to manage the throttle max power (to easy use it for walkmode).
Waynemarlow
10 kW
ornias said:
Bafang may well have learnt the hard way with Mosfets, they had a lot of failures on the early BBS01 and 02 motors due to Mosfet failure and replaced all the controllers with overly engineered boards which seem to be almost bullet proof even doubling or tripling the power output than the original design brief.
Waynemarlow
10 kW
On my CP240/1 display I can see the bin file in use and the Bafang Go App discusses about how to " update " the firmware via the App which totally dispenses with the need for a BEEST programmer.
Is there anyway we could fool the App from picking up a bin file and updating the motor other than from Bafang directories ?
Is there anyway we could fool the App from picking up a bin file and updating the motor other than from Bafang directories ?
Kyokushin
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Waynemarlow said:
Bluetooth update is not working no matter from cloud or local file. If you pick local file then you will be unable to pick a file. Bafang GO is a piece of garbage.
The interesting could be to write an app to change speed limit over bluetooth for M500/M600 with bluetooth capable displays (ex cp241).
ornias said:
It does seem like 1kW (~21 amps @48V, ~28 amps @36V) would be well within the operating range of the 80V/60A rated mosfets. Looking at the datasheet, the silicon is actually rated at 131 amps(!!) and it is the package that limits the rating to a measly 60 amps. Plus, the use of a gate drive chip and the use of a temperature sensor right on the board, the mosfets are likely pretty safe.
http://www.hunteck.com/Datasheets/HGN036N08S_V1.0-061417.pdf
As for everything else... wires, connectors, motor windings, etc... hummmmm, guess we'll have to see. But again, a temp sensor in the motor, so hopefully software would shut down before things get too crazy.
I actually want to do some thermal scans at some point, but it almost seems like the motor might be getting hotter than the mosfet/controller heatsink. If that is the case, then a thermal insulating gasket for the controller might make sense to keep motor heat out!
ornias
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4πr^2 said:
Thats a fair point, looking at those specs and losses on those MOSFETS I also cannot see why they would produce much board heat at all.
At first I was under the impression that they gimped the MOSFETS to comply to EU law, but those FETS really wouldn't heat up hard enough to be of relevance.
savaoaknyc
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Hi Guys,
i have bought a m800 motor from a forum member.it is 36version.So you can expect some controller picture from me, if it is easy to open it .Also need to get the besst tool to download the firmware.
i have bought a m800 motor from a forum member.it is 36version.So you can expect some controller picture from me, if it is easy to open it .Also need to get the besst tool to download the firmware.
Kyokushin said:
Do you know if we can use CRX10NC4813i142015.8-28-2230-20210805.bin for all M500 48V ? i have read that they have updated the hardware (the additionnel motor provided to rob). the standard exchange controller received from bafang for mine +-2 month ago have CRX10NC4810i142015.5.
Kyokushin
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patdam said:
I had same firmware in my engine (received bike 2 weeks ago) as you. Its known there are not significant differences in construction (described detaily in this topic) of first M500's and M600 and controller of M500 should handle over 1kW as its described above, so there should not be an issues with that.
For now nobody confirmed harware differences in M500 revisions.
Kyokushin
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Me too. Only what i saw is from this topic 
However, i have received it from bafang - technically - we know the old M500 is similar to M600, and new M500 rather may be stronger than weaker. It (my M500) 'worked' (but on half of power in due to one shunt resistor less on M500 controller) even when i tried M600 firmware, so i think IF there are some differences then they have no matter.
I have done on 670W peak firmware around 400km so far, and so good. 720W is slightly stronger, i tried some climbing etc, works like charm - its different bike than with stock firmware what we had uploaded by default.
Its up to you mate, all firmware updates are on own risk, but they're saying no risk no fun, no pain no gain
However, i have received it from bafang - technically - we know the old M500 is similar to M600, and new M500 rather may be stronger than weaker. It (my M500) 'worked' (but on half of power in due to one shunt resistor less on M500 controller) even when i tried M600 firmware, so i think IF there are some differences then they have no matter. I have done on 670W peak firmware around 400km so far, and so good. 720W is slightly stronger, i tried some climbing etc, works like charm - its different bike than with stock firmware what we had uploaded by default.
Its up to you mate, all firmware updates are on own risk, but they're saying no risk no fun, no pain no gain
Kyokushin said:Me too. Only what i saw is from this topic
I have done on 670W peak firmware around 400km so far, and so good. 720W is slightly stronger, i tried some climbing etc, works like charm - its different bike than with stock firmware what we had uploaded by default.
Its up to you mate, all firmware updates are on own risk, but they're saying no risk no fun, no pain no gain
The several month of fight with a lot of contacts to find a solution at my problem of controller have traumatized me. It will need a few more time for i forget and i upload the soft :x
Bigwheel
1 kW
I have been tracking the M600 as the only integrated mid drive around that I would lay down for and quite frankly waiting for the dust to settle a bit and the bugs get worked out.
While in a way it's a shame that the early adopters here have had to do that mostly on their own there have been lots of problems worked out on this forum over the years and I felt that the solutions would come from the savvy members here! My only hope is that the Bafang engineers get it that there are issues that THEY can fix at the factory and not send the less computer astute folks out here into frustration town. For instance I would hope that the excellent efforts by Kykoshin and others get to them.
It also makes sense for them to adopt the silent gear and just put the darn thing on there and do an upcharge to the cost. In reality at least for me it would be well worth it and not that much of a hit and certainly better than paying someone to tear apart a brand new motor to install it of which the labor is most of the cost that Luna charges.
And on the subject of Luna it is very frustrating for us here in the US and Canada that they have locked up Dengfu E10 availability. It seems like it is the preferred frame, or at least the best one available at this time, for the M600 if you want a 140mm+ bike. I have been tracking the Bikes Direct aluminum one that was supposed to be available last spring, then this summer, then this fall, now Xmas........Covid sucks for sure and is not helping. FLX has a version coming out but there is just something about that company that doesn't speak to me and who knows when they will get their shite together given they are not immune to the current situation either.
Luna's site has shown no stock for months and not even a peep of when they think there will be. Even on their forum, of which the largest thread I see is about BESST tuning, see above, there is nothing about what to expect from them in the future. Of course the used market is non existent because who wants to sell one here in the US when there are so few available to beging with?
Frustration levels are a bit high and a good thing I am on BP meds these days I suppose and I just ordered parts to keep my 05' Alu FS mullet with TSDZ2 and 21700 cell battery going for a bit longer but for sure I really feel like it's time to get a new bike and have the cash to do so.
Stay safe out there!
While in a way it's a shame that the early adopters here have had to do that mostly on their own there have been lots of problems worked out on this forum over the years and I felt that the solutions would come from the savvy members here! My only hope is that the Bafang engineers get it that there are issues that THEY can fix at the factory and not send the less computer astute folks out here into frustration town. For instance I would hope that the excellent efforts by Kykoshin and others get to them.
It also makes sense for them to adopt the silent gear and just put the darn thing on there and do an upcharge to the cost. In reality at least for me it would be well worth it and not that much of a hit and certainly better than paying someone to tear apart a brand new motor to install it of which the labor is most of the cost that Luna charges.
And on the subject of Luna it is very frustrating for us here in the US and Canada that they have locked up Dengfu E10 availability. It seems like it is the preferred frame, or at least the best one available at this time, for the M600 if you want a 140mm+ bike. I have been tracking the Bikes Direct aluminum one that was supposed to be available last spring, then this summer, then this fall, now Xmas........Covid sucks for sure and is not helping. FLX has a version coming out but there is just something about that company that doesn't speak to me and who knows when they will get their shite together given they are not immune to the current situation either.
Luna's site has shown no stock for months and not even a peep of when they think there will be. Even on their forum, of which the largest thread I see is about BESST tuning, see above, there is nothing about what to expect from them in the future. Of course the used market is non existent because who wants to sell one here in the US when there are so few available to beging with?
Frustration levels are a bit high and a good thing I am on BP meds these days I suppose and I just ordered parts to keep my 05' Alu FS mullet with TSDZ2 and 21700 cell battery going for a bit longer but for sure I really feel like it's time to get a new bike and have the cash to do so.
Stay safe out there!
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