Some people need ebikes to be a lot simpler

[Papa]

Some people need ebikes to be a lot simpler​

You need not concern yourself with the illusional complexities of ebikes and bicycles in general.... and focus instead, on how to 'simplify' Bingo. "Dammit... When I finally found the right number... I forgot what the letter was." "I wonder if Google has an app for that."

You see... "simplicity", is nothing more than frame of mind.

 

[yantra yatra]

mid to high power Ebikes are more complicated to own and run than a car (for the average person). This is partly because most people don’t do their own maintenance on a car and take it to a mechanic. At the end of the day if mid to high power Ebikes were legal, there would be more investment and innovation in the tech, better bikes would be available, and servicing would be available.

But overall in my experience Ebikes take a lot of work for me.

Compare for example owning a Tesla to owning a mid drive Bafang.. at least with the retrofit bafangs in my experience I have to fiddle with lots of things. I don’t think the experience would be the same with a Tesla. For greater uptake of Ebikes I think this should be addressed and could be addressed. For me personally I’d like a relatively hassle free ebike with good performance. It doesn’t really exist.

 

[Zambam]

Speaking of simple, I just learned of Priority Bicycle's E Classic Plus PRIORITY E-CLASSIC PLUS

Front hub motor, belt drive with Shimano Nexus 3 IGH

 

[yantra yatra]

I rode a 3 speed Shimano IGH belt drive bike with electric shift and I think it was a mid drive motor. It was pretty cheap actually and very smooth to ride. The only problem is in Aus motors are limited to 250w nominal and 25km/h, 6km/h on throttle.

This kind of bike would tick the boxes for a lot of (maybe most?) people. I’d prefer at least 10x the rated power though.

VelectriX Brunswick Electric Commuter Bike Green

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[ebike4healthandfitness]

Yes, I think belt drive is very nice.

So is the thicker 1/8" chain possible with IGH or single speed (either fixed or freewheel).

Also nice I think is the full wrap dutch chainguard possible with a single rear cog drivetrain (either belt or chain):



Going beyond that is shaft drive:

BFS2017: Brik Bikes' the chainless bicycles, no maintenance Dutch commuters

Brik Bikes was founded around the concept of building chainless Dutch-made commuter bikes that would operate trouble-free for years without any real need for maintenance. Starting…

bikerumor.com

P.S. Very interesting to me that one of the options for that shaft drive bike is (or was) a SRAM two speed automatic IGH with coaster brake.

 

[molybdenum]

The derailleur should be most efficient at transmitting force from pedals to rear wheel, followed closely by the belt drive, with the shaft drive at a distant third. Losses are due to changes in rotational direction.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

The derailleur should be most efficient at transmitting force from pedals to rear wheel, followed closely by the belt drive, with the shaft drive at a distant third. Losses are due to changes in rotational direction.

View attachment 354945

I don't doubt the shaft would be the least efficient.

These guys though have claimed to have made a version of the shaft drive that is even more efficient than a derailleur system:

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/faster-than-any-chain-ceramicspeed-driven

What I like about is how the 13 speed cassette is flat rather than conical. That means (I presume) a dish-less rear wheel would be possible even with very narrow rear frame spacing. Also q factor could be optimized to be very narrow which benefits aero and is actually mechanically ideal for most riders. It needs an electric motor to shift though and the system loses efficiency when over 380W is used.

 

[molybdenum]

se guys though have claimed to have made a version of the shaft drive that is even more efficient than a derailleur system:

Interestingly, the original Dutch drive shaft system is all internal so protected from the environment, but would require a separate internal gearbox to function as multi-speed drive. The Ceramicspeed system linked above engages with something resembling a cassette. While it isn't sealed, it solves the multi-speed drive quite nicely. I find it annoying to replace my chain every 6k and cassette every 15k, as that is almost yearly for me. A reasonably priced drive with longer lifespan would be nice. That being said, it takes me an hour to gut and replace my drive. Tires remain the achilles heel as I get flats 1-2x/yr on average and sometimes my tire is so mutilated thst roadside repairs are impossible.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Some information on Driven's orbit drive (and yes, it is also available as a shaft drive):

The Driven Orbit Drive is a Planetary Bevel Gearbox eBike Motor

CeramicSpeed spin-off, Driven, shows a model of the Orbit Drive all-in-one Gearbox eBike Motor weighing 4.6 kg and delivering 90 Nm Torque

bikerumor.com

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/driven-technologies-orbit-drive

https://insideevs.com/news/685098/driven-technologies-orbit-drive-ebike-system/

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/driven-returns-with-orbit-an-e-bike-drive-and-automatic-gearing-system

Some very interesting features in that "Planetary Bevel" automatic CVT electric mid drive motor with sensor-less torque sensor and regenerative braking.

 

[Az.]

This so more people can enjoy biking without being intimidated by what they see as a overly complicated and fragile device.

If a somebody is intimidated by a bike then perhaps cycling is not for that person. If complexity of a bike is a problem, then wait for idiots on roads in their 4x4, trucks, cars etc. They are really intimidating.

 

[Az.]

mid to high power Ebikes are more complicated to own and run than a car (for the average person). This is partly because most people don’t do their own maintenance on a car and take it to a mechanic.

I don't see a big difference in maintenance between normal bike and an e-bike. Only battery requires some attention (can't be just left in the shed for many months).

At the end of the day if mid to high power Ebikes were legal, there would be more investment and innovation in the tech, better bikes would be available, and servicing would be available.

...but mid and high powered e-bikes are legal. You can easily have EAPC with 250W rated motor and set controller to 1000W. It is really a lot. Then there is speed pedelec class. How much more power would you like?

But overall in my experience Ebikes take a lot of work for me.

Can you elaborate what work you have in mind? Maybe I am missing something.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

mid to high power Ebikes are more complicated to own and run than a car (for the average person).

I don't see a big difference in maintenance between normal bike and an e-bike. Only battery requires some attention (can't be just left in the shed for many months).

He is not comparing an ebike to a normal bike. He is comparing an ebike to a car.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Check this bike out:

It only needs a box wrench (and spoke wrench) to service. Though I doubt a spoke wrench will ever be needed as it has a dish-less rear wheel with steel double wall rims and 13 guage spokes.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

This company (Sussex) claim to be the major supplier of shaft drives to bicycle manufacturers:

Sussex-Shaft Drive System

Shaft Drive System (<---Gear ratios of 1:85, 2.07 and 2.38 and other specs are listed here)

The Brik Brut shaft drive bike appears to use the older generation of this Sussex shaft drive which was also used on some Dynamic Bicycles shaft drive bikes.

Brik claims their shaft drive is 96% to 97% efficient (i.e. 3 to 4% efficiency loss when used as a single speed):

Shaft drive - Brikbikes

The Brik Brut models use a Shaft drive. Brikbikes is a firm believer in this system, because the advantages over the bicycle chain are great.

brikbikes.com

This is in agreement with shaft drive efficiency testing done back in 1898 reported in Bicycling Science 3rd edition (page 333) which was 3% to 8% efficiency loss. The efficiency loss was attributed as "probably because the machining of bevel gears was not very precise".

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Check this bike out:

It only needs a box wrench (and spoke wrench) to service. Though I doubt a spoke wrench will ever be needed as it has a dish-less rear wheel with steel double wall rims and 13 guage spokes.

Here is the newly updated version of the Buffalo bike called Utility S2:

The New WBR Buffalo Bike is First with Two Chain, Two Speed Drivetrain

The WBR Buffalo Bike is iconic – it even has a place within Zwift. Now, its successor has a wild two-chain drivetrain!

bikerumor.com

Why the Bicycle with Two Chains Might Just Be the Best Bike at Eurobike 2024

World Bicycle Relief took over three years to make this new Buffalo S2, but its simple two-speed drivetrain feels worth the wait.

velo.outsideonline.com

The major change is the kickback two speed pedal drive train (patented by World Bicycle relief) where the rider backpedals one half rotation to change from to either 45/19 gear ratio or a 27/18 gear ratio. This backpedal motion activates a shift ring which engages or disengages the pawls in the higher gear’s cog in order to accomplish the gear change. Both chainring and cog combinations use a 1/8" chain. One of the chains has 110 links and the other chain has 100 links.

Other changes include rim brakes front and rear (which replace the previous versions coaster brake and front servo type drum brake), aluminum double wall rims replacing the previous version's steel rims (for better braking with the new rim brakes) and wider rear frame spacing.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

For people wanting to do track bike conversions:

According to a forum member here Keyde does make a 120mm version of the All-in-one P160 motor (P160 ALL-IN-ONE Rear Motor):

Electrifying my track bike

Discussion moved here: https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/help-me-choose-a-motor-battery-set-up.123249/ --- I know that an aluminium track frame is not the most suitable frame to turn into an ebike. I do have some other bikes, which are also all track frames 😂 I have youtube channel...

endless-sphere.com

And the Cute Q100 also works with 120mm spacing:

motor for 120mm drop out hub drive?

I have a single speed road bike which would be great for a hub motor. But, there is a catch: - it has a carbon front fork - It has a 120mm (horizontal) rear drop out. It would be perfect for me if I could put a small motor in the rear, but most rear motors are 135mm wide. Now the BMS web page...

endless-sphere.com

Chainline of Cute Q100 on 120mm spacing: