Bafang M500/M600 thread

[NoFanBoiz]

1 - the display to be used with original firmware; Clearly the most quick, cheap and almost with zero risk, is the display.

This is great and addresses the people that got supplied a DP C240 that doesn't have Bluetooth.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I know you love the challenge of rewriting the whole firmware, but where are the gains. The firmware isn't far off from being very useable as is, seems to be pretty up to date and seems pretty reliable. Total battery useage seems on a par ( if not better than most engines out there ) and at the moment we can use our own batteries unlike all the other manufacturers. There's lots to like about this motor as is. Does it need a full rewrite ?

For all the time involved I'm not sure there would be a huge uptake of the new firmware unlike the TSDZ2 project where the factory firmware wasn't great.

So what are my gripes with the engine, its the frills on the edges such as not being able to change from a more cadence bias to a more pedal torque bias, being able to reset the power levels to my own requirements, being able to utilise better the phone App / Garmin Canbus readings, these are things which are nice but not stopping us from enjoying the motor out in the environment it was designed for.

 

[casainho]

1 - the display to be used with original firmware; Clearly the most quick, cheap and almost with zero risk, is the display.

This is great and addresses the people that got supplied a DP C240 that doesn't have Bluetooth.

Hmm, the thing with Bluetooth is that users then expect a mobile app and we only have a very limited one. The best strategy is to pass the cost of developing such systems, to the user - like adding the ANT+ LEV Ebike wireless standard and then user can buy the Garmin GPS display that includes GPS navigation and all other advanced fitness cycling metrics and sensors.

 

[casainho]

I know you love the challenge of rewriting the whole firmware, but where are the gains. The firmware isn't far off from being very useable as is, seems to be pretty up to date and seems pretty reliable. Total battery useage seems on a par ( if not better than most engines out there ) and at the moment we can use our own batteries unlike all the other manufacturers. There's lots to like about this motor as is. Does it need a full rewrite ?

For all the time involved I'm not sure there would be a huge uptake of the new firmware unlike the TSDZ2 project where the factory firmware wasn't great.

So what are my gripes with the engine, its the frills on the edges such as not being able to change from a more cadence bias to a more pedal torque bias, being able to reset the power levels to my own requirements, being able to utilise better the phone App / Garmin Canbus readings, these are things which are nice but not stopping us from enjoying the motor out in the environment it was designed for.

I totally agree with you!!

Really the display is fast to adapt / develop, low risk, and will let keep using the original motor firmware but add the ANT+ LEV Ebike wireless standard, where user can then buy the Garmin GPS display that includes GPS navigation and all other advanced fitness cycling metrics and sensors.

I am also afraid I will find that I will want a lower assistant level or torque / speed ramps, and that will not be possible without developing our own motor firmware.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Hmm, the thing with Bluetooth is that users then expect a mobile app and we only have a very limited one. The best strategy is to pass the cost of developing such systems, to the user - like adding the ANT+ LEV Ebike wireless standard and then user can buy the Garmin GPS display that includes GPS navigation and all other advanced fitness cycling metrics and sensors.

OK I would put myself in that category of owning a Garmin and would with a bit of work on my part, have a look at the Garmin App maker listed above and create my own display using the Garmin screen.

But I already have a CP241 with bluetooth on it ( which I quite like as its very discrete, if only it had a better switch pad ), can I ask a bit of laymens question, how do I get the required data from the CP241 to a format the Garmin will read ?

I'm not sure you will need to worry about the lower power levels on the M510, its the M600 that has the higher power levels on Level 1 that is the problem.

 

[casainho]

OK I would put myself in that category of owning a Garmin and would with a bit of work on my part, have a look at the Garmin App maker listed above and create my own display using the Garmin screen.

First, on the Garmin side, you do not need any app there, as the Garmin (as other good GPS displays) already supports the ANT+ LEV EBike natively. You can see like what is the battery SOC, assist level, even motor temperature. The only think you can control is increasing or decreasing the assist level, or turn on/off the lights.
To say the true, seems the CAN data interface on this motors were already planned to add the ANT+ LEV, because all needed data is there.

But I already have a CP241 with bluetooth on it ( which I quite like as its very discrete, if only it had a better switch pad ), can I ask a bit of laymens question, how do I get the required data from the CP241 to a format the Garmin will read ?

You use our DIY display board, but without the display. Well, this is not yet done, but I wish to develop the firmware is a way that display is optional and if is not connected, the system will work anyway.

Since this display are CAN, I think we simple can connect both of them in parallel, to the same CAN connector. Since I could understand, that display has 2 different connectors, I bet both of them has CAN, maybe one can be connected as usual to the motor cable and the other connector can be connect to our DIY display.

This was the smallest fully wireless remote for ANT+ LEV EBike I could built using our display board (uses a battery and has a wired connection for the brake sensors), again, reusing the Bafang 850C display remote:

 

[Waynemarlow]

Thanks for the reply.

Now most EBike frames have a bit room in front of the battery location to put a small plastic box, I wonder how the Bluetooth will deal with a thickness of Carbon between it and the Garmin ?

I haven't gone back through the development of the display for the TSDZ2 but I think the CP241 has a 5 volt supply, could we not do away with the coin battery and just start up the board as soon as the CP241 powers up ?

 

[CiDi]

The Can connector can be connected in parallel.
It can be connected to one of the three motor cables, all three have CanH and CanL.
We can leave the original display connected and add this card to have an ANT + and BL connection.
I would add a button to change the maximum speed on the fly.

OK I would put myself in that category of owning a Garmin and would with a bit of work on my part, have a look at the Garmin App maker listed above and create my own display using the Garmin screen.

First, on the Garmin side, you do not need any app there, as the Garmin (as other good GPS displays) already supports the ANT+ LEV EBike natively. You can see like what is the battery SOC, assist level, even motor temperature. The only think you can control is increasing or decreasing the assist level, or turn on/off the lights.
To say the true, seems the CAN data interface on this motors were already planned to add the ANT+ LEV, because all needed data is there.

But I already have a CP241 with bluetooth on it ( which I quite like as its very discrete, if only it had a better switch pad ), can I ask a bit of laymens question, how do I get the required data from the CP241 to a format the Garmin will read ?

You use our DIY display board, but without the display. Well, this is not yet done, but I wish to develop the firmware is a way that display is optional and if is not connected, the system will work anyway.

Since this display are CAN, I think we simple can connect both of them in parallel, to the same CAN connector. Since I could understand, that display has 2 different connectors, I bet both of them has CAN, maybe one can be connected as usual to the motor cable and the other connector can be connect to our DIY display.

This was the smallest fully wireless remote for ANT+ LEV EBike I could built using our display board (uses a battery and has a wired connection for the brake sensors), again, reusing the Bafang 850C display remote:

 

[Waynemarlow]

We can leave the original display connected and add this card to have an ANT + and BL connection.
I would add a button to change the maximum speed on the fly.

I'm surprised some company that makes the Speed hacks aren't all over this. If you can simply plug it in to the existing harness and with an over ride button + have the benefit of an ANT +BL sytem to tune into, seems a pretty good thing to have.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I would add a button to change the maximum speed on the fly.

I wonder if the Garmin could send a Xth level message in return rather than a visible button. On start up enter say level 10 ( I use the nine levels on mine ) which puts the motor into off road mode. Simply switch the bike off and the motor resets back to on road speed limits.

 

[CiDi]

I would add a button to change the maximum speed on the fly.

I wonder if the Garmin could send a Xth level message in return rather than a visible button. On start up enter say level 10 ( I use the nine levels on mine ) which puts the motor into off road mode. Simply switch the bike off and the motor resets back to on road speed limits.

You don't even need to turn off the bike

 

[Waynemarlow]

More to keep Bafang happy, as long as you turn the motor on and it complies to regs, there after it is down to the owner. :wink:

 

[casainho]

Is the throttle also CAN? or is just an analog signal as on other EBikes?
And the brake sensor signal?

 

[CiDi]

Is the throttle also CAN? or is just an analog signal as on other EBikes?
And the brake sensor signal?

Throttle and brakes sensor are the same as the BBS.

 

[casainho]

Is the throttle also CAN? or is just an analog signal as on other EBikes?
And the brake sensor signal?

Throttle and brakes sensor are the same as the BBS.

Thanks.

What about the 2 input connectors on the display? Why that 2 connectors and which one are tou using and why?

 

[CiDi]

Is the throttle also CAN? or is just an analog signal as on other EBikes?
And the brake sensor signal?

Throttle and brakes sensor are the same as the BBS.

Thanks.

What about the 2 input connectors on the display? Why that 2 connectors and which one are tou using and why?

The display has a connector that goes to the controller, the other connector is that of the buttons.

 

[casainho]

The display has a connector that goes to the controller, the other connector is that of the buttons.

On the display cable, what are these pins functions??
1. P+
2. ZB
3. QD

On TSDZ2, we need to short 2 pins (one of them has the battery voltage) to turn on the motor controller - how it is on M500/M600?

 

[CiDi]

The display has a connector that goes to the controller, the other connector is that of the buttons.

On the display cable, what are these pins functions??
1. P+
2. ZB
3. QD

On TSDZ2, we need to short 2 pins (one of them has the battery voltage) to turn on the motor controller - how it is on M500/M600?

In this cable are connected display, throttle and BMS battery.

Display
GND: Ground
CH: Can Hight
CL: Can Low
P+: Positive Battery
VCC: Start controller

Throttle
GND
5V+
ZB or QD: throttle

BMS battery
CH: Can Hight
CL: Can Low
ZB or QD: Battery sensor temperature

 

[casainho]

The display has a connector that goes to the controller, the other connector is that of the buttons.

On the display cable, what are these pins functions??
1. P+
2. ZB
3. QD

On TSDZ2, we need to short 2 pins (one of them has the battery voltage) to turn on the motor controller - how it is on M500/M600?

In this cable are connected display, throttle and BMS battery.

Display
GND: Ground
CH: Can Hight
CL: Can Low
P+: Positive Battery
VCC: Start controller

Throttle
GND
5V+
ZB: throttle

BMS battery
CH: Can Hight
CL: Can Low
QD: Battery sensor temperature

For safety, the cable must be checked with a tester

Great!!

What about this ones?? -- and I will put all this information on the repository.

 

[CiDi]

The display has a connector that goes to the controller, the other connector is that of the buttons.

On the display cable, what are these pins functions??
1. P+
2. ZB
3. QD

On TSDZ2, we need to short 2 pins (one of them has the battery voltage) to turn on the motor controller - how it is on M500/M600?

In this cable are connected display, throttle and BMS battery.

Display
GND: Ground
CH: Can Hight
CL: Can Low
P+: Positive Battery
VCC: Start controller

Throttle
GND
5V+
ZB: throttle

BMS battery
CH: Can Hight
CL: Can Low
QD: Battery sensor temperature

For safety, the cable must be checked with a tester

Great!!

What about this ones?? -- and I will put all this information on the repository.

Brake sensor
GND
5V+
SL

Speed sensor
GND
5V+
SPD

Gear sensor
GND
5V+
WD

 

[casainho]

Gear sensor
GND
5V+
WD

Is anyone using the gear sensor??

 

[Waynemarlow]

There was a bit of chatter early on and I think a company made a purpose gear sensor. Since then I’ve not seen or heard internet chatter with one in operation.

 

[casainho]

As the EBike I will build with M500 will be mostly to ride on mountains trails, I will always want to use the Garmin Edge GPS display for navigation and fitness metrics like showing me in real time my heart rate and blood glucose value from my continuous glucose monitor sticked up on my arm.

So my plan is to make this GPS display as the principal on the handlebar and not use the DP C20 original display. But I still need our DIY display, at least to turn on/off the M500 and implement the ANT+ LEV EBike wireless standard. And because I should not depend on the Garmin Edge GPS display, because it may stop to work because of his empty battery or I may forgot to carry it with me, I still want to have a mini display (I may or may not install it on the handlebar), that will be redundant to the GPS display.

I can use the most tiny 0.96 inches display if I prefer (on the right side):

This is the schematic for the display. The only differences from the TSDZ2 display version, are:
1. removed the battery voltage to 5V DC-DC, as we can use the 5V available on the connector
2. added the CANBUS module

The schematic is very simple:
1. the 5V power the NRF52840 microcontroller Bluetooth ANT board, and this board provides output of 3.3V
2. the remote is reused (from 850C Bafang display), can be bought on Ebay, Aliexpress, etc. Can be any other remote, as long it has at least 3 buttons.
3. the 2 mosfets are used to turn on/off the motor controller
4. the OLED display is a black and white 128x64 pixels
5. the CANBUS module do the data communication between the microcontroller and the motor controller

 

[CiDi]

There was a bit of chatter early on and I think a company made a purpose gear sensor. Since then I’ve not seen or heard internet chatter with one in operation.

The gear sensor is the same as the BBS but with a different connector.
I tried it with the first firmware and it didn't work, I finally plugged it into the brake connector.

 

[CiDi]

As the EBike I will build with M500 will be mostly to ride on mountains trails, I will always want to use the Garmin Edge GPS display for navigation and fitness metrics like showing me in real time my heart rate and blood glucose value from my continuous glucose monitor sticked up on my arm.

So my plan is to make this GPS display as the principal on the handlebar and not use the DP C20 original display. But I still need our DIY display, at least to turn on/off the M500 and implement the ANT+ LEV EBike wireless standard. And because I should not depend on the Garmin Edge GPS display, because it may stop to work because of his empty battery or I may forgot to carry it with me, I still want to have a mini display (I may or may not install it on the handlebar), that will be redundant to the GPS display.

I can use the most tiny 0.96 inches display if I prefer (on the right side):

This is the schematic for the display. The only differences from the TSDZ2 display version, are:
1. removed the battery voltage to 5V DC-DC, as we can use the 5V available on the connector
2. added the CANBUS module

The schematic is very simple:
1. the 5V power the NRF52840 microcontroller Bluetooth ANT board, and this board provides output of 3.3V
2. the remote is reused (from 850C Bafang display), can be bought on Ebay, Aliexpress, etc. Can be any other remote, as long it has at least 3 buttons.
3. the 2 mosfets are used to turn on/off the motor controller
4. the OLED display is a black and white 128x64 pixels
5. the CANBUS module do the data communication between the microcontroller and the motor controller

The 5V is in the throttle cable, not the display cable, and I don't know if that's enough to power a display.

With the TSDZ2 have you ever tried to use the 5V throttle?