Bewo, New Crank-drive Motor

[Ade]

Their is nothing good about an external controller

For a dead electrolytic capacitor is best for you taking apart the complete motor system?
The heat has a small special door that gets away in your favorite design ?

You crossed the line of electronics design, of which you seem totally unfamiliar with.

You don't have to "take apart the complete motor system" to change or the controller on the BBS0x. It's just a few screws. I can't say mine has ever gone beyond slightly warm either. I don't think your exaggerations are very accurate or helpful.

 

[Ade]

You don't have to "take apart the complete motor system" to change or the controller on the BBS0x. It's just a few screws.

Youtube videos says a different story.

I can't say mine has ever gone beyond slightly warm either.

Measured by what? your fingers?

I don't think your exaggerations are very accurate or helpful.

You have a new set of them so to play with.
And if you come back bring with you some facts and not generic impressions.
One example of what I am asking is the question... Why cars and motorcycles using metal gears in their gears box and Bafang using plastic?
Did they offered a product aiming to be disposable in 24 months ?

Well, I can assure you, after changing the controller in my BBS a few weeks ago, all it really took was undoing a few screws, unplugging some connectors and putting it all back together again. Yes, that's fairly anecdotal but if that's too much for anyone they probably wouldn't be up to taking apart an external controller and soldering in a new capacitor either.

And yes, I used that much maligned sense of touch to feel a barely warm motor. But, I can assure you, after many decades of life, my fingers are pretty well calibrated to tell me if I'm burning or not.

Also, I'm pretty sure that cars and motorcycles use metal in their gearboxes because the forces put out by 100hp+ motors going at several 1000 rpm far exceed that of the small electric crank motor on my bicycle. Oh, and yes, they're probably designed to travel further and have more longevity than my bicycle - no surprise there really, but I can say that I'm unlikely to travel the 20,000km a year or more on my bike nor would I be willing to pay the premium for it to be made so robust that it would survive that kind of use, year in, year out.

 

[Ade]

I'm pretty sure that cars and motorcycles use metal in their gearboxes because the forces put out by 100hp+ motors going at several 1000 rpm far exceed that of the small electric crank motor on my bicycle.

What BEWO did here is that it break the rules of "planned obsolesence".
a) By using a gear box ( Chain line movement system) which is unbreakable.
b) By using a regular electric motor which can serviced even if you live over a mountain by two fresh ball bearings.
c) By using a motor controller which it casing and internal parts has a unique shape and design, aiming highest heat removal and it is easy to service or replace.

All those crimes is unforgivable from an industry which wanted added complexity, so their design to be hard about getting copied, and about making money by selling their spare parts.

But as regular consumer I have the faith that other consumers by getting informed of what is happening they will change their criteria about their selections in the future.
I am an Industrial Maintenance Electrician who has earned his stripes all ready in the field which is not related with internet activities, and therefore my reputation is safe.
But after repairing hundreds perfect and imperfect equipment, my very own opinion about the BEWO KIT is that it does not resemble with a cheap made rechargeable power tool.

I can't comment on the BEWO as I've no experience of it, but even so, just because X may be better than Y, it doesn't make Y a bad product. It's quite possible to over-engineer a product past what is required.

Other than that, your preaching is starting to make me suspect you have a stake in the game.

 

[eMax]

I am enjoying the healthy debate here I think there has been valid points made all-round. The nylon clutch gear is not the problem in the overworked Bafangs, its the main driveshaft gear which is prone to lateral forces.

Kiriakos forgive me if you posted earlier but have you done a stripdown of this motor? Or are you relying on information supplied by BEWO.

 

[tahustvedt]

You don't have to "take apart the complete motor system" to change or the controller on the BBS0x. It's just a few screws.

Youtube videos says a different story.

I can't say mine has ever gone beyond slightly warm either.

Measured by what? your fingers?

I don't think your exaggerations are very accurate or helpful.

You have a new set of them so to play with.
And if you come back bring with you some facts and not generic impressions.
One example of what I am asking is the question... Why cars and motorcycles using metal gears in their gears box and Bafang using plastic?
Did they offered a product aiming to be disposable in 24 months ?

The Bafang uses steel gears. Only one gear, on the low torque side of the equation, is "plastic".

You mentioned earlier that you measured the temp to 55°C. That's too hot to touch for longer than a few seconds.

Don't get me wrong. I will need a new mid drive system soon for a velomobile, and I haven't decided yet. The thing that makes me sceptical about the BEWO is the fact that it has only one reduction stage. This means the motor needs to be a very high torque motor to run efficiently at max torque, and the motor looks too small to be high torque/low speed unless the windings are thin (and thus inefficient at high currents).

 

[eMax]

My 2 Bewo motors have arrived. They are the 350w versions. Wait for order was slow and shipping to Australia expensive (over a month wait then sent via DHL). The packaging was terrible. The controller and all other components came in a box that had virtually no padding / protection. The display boxes were completely crushed, thankfully the displays don't seem to be damaged. The motors were packed ok.

On the positive the motors have a really solid feel to them. Fittings are all good quality and I like how simple it is to go from 68mm to 73mm with the change of an adapter. The units appear very serviceable compared to the Bafang BBS (believe me I am constantly pulling them apart). I will be doing some closer inspections of motor and posting some photos so stay tuned..

 

[1boris]

Maybe better to buy them here: http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-CJ-SXV4.5MCDF

 

[tahustvedt]

Sounds like a lot of trouble. I'm glad it's not like that in Norway.

DHL are known to inflate the import tax, and claim it's based on a statiscitcal value, which is basically a value they made up. It's fraud and they will lower it when pressured. DHL delivers to my door.

EMS includes the import fee, so I only pay import tax (25%) when I get a package shipped with EMS. It's delivered by the regular mail service to my house from customs.

China mail, USPS and similar are shipped with regular mail inside Norway, and I pay a fixed, reasonable, import fee and import tax (25%).

 

[nioko]

Maybe better to buy them here: http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-CJ-SXV4.5MCDF

I would not do that, were very ignorant after selling me a defective BBS02 unit.

 

[tomjasz]

Can someone break down and predict the access to replacement bearing and repair parts. I'd like to try one. I get regular emails from BEWO but the BBS01 250 and 350 kits have been very reliable. AND I have parts access. Are the bearings in the BEWO off the shelf or proprietary. An important consideration for me. I need to support my customers. I can't seem to get that answer.

Anyone?

 

[tahustvedt]

My 2 Bewo motors have arrived. They are the 350w versions. Wait for order was slow and shipping to Australia expensive (over a month wait then sent via DHL). The packaging was terrible. The controller and all other components came in a box that had virtually no padding / protection. The display boxes were completely crushed, thankfully the displays don't seem to be damaged. The motors were packed ok.

On the positive the motors have a really solid feel to them. Fittings are all good quality and I like how simple it is to go from 68mm to 73mm with the change of an adapter. The units appear very serviceable compared to the Bafang BBS (believe me I am constantly pulling them apart). I will be doing some closer inspections of motor and posting some photos so stay tuned..

I'm looking forward to learning more about them. Is there a freewheel on the motor shaft? If not, how do they disconnect the motor when pedaling without assist/faster than the motor?

 

[tomjasz]

Sadly, due to China limits on internet access, BEWO cannot access this forum.

 

[speedmd]

Maybe out in the open. With all the hot sim cards available and hack equipment available in most every major city, they can have at just about any science/ industrial topic on the web. Certainly if one gets caught posting political topics or spying on/hacking a domestic competitor, they would have some splaining to do and would be flushed out relatively quickly. They do not seem to be interested in stopping constructive industrial behavior in the least. Quite the opposite from what I have seen.

 

[tomjasz]

No one suggested they were obligated. I have been discussing possibilities with BEWO for months. I suggested their presence here to support users, answer questions, and show product. It would help build confidence in their product. Through all discussions I have always remained positive about what BEWO might present to the market. Even though I have now purchased and installed 7 BBS01 350 units. I have no need to bash, I just come here to learn. Which is why I posted BEWO documents and invited them here. They sure don't benefit by your constant bickering and negativity.

We don't yet know what parts are subject to wear and what replacement access is. Are the parts proprietary or are the bearing openly available. In the BBS0x One bearing is easy access the other is proprietary, but easily purchased in the supply chain.

 

[gibbo111]

I am hoping that this kit will be reliable and serviceable for a lot more than 5000km. My current mid-drive , an aussie designed Elation has approx. 12500km and still going. Similar to a cyclone kit but was able to use all 21 gears, so always able to use the motor at its best rpm. Pity the company went broke

 

[bgt]

Kiriakos, try to be a bit more humble. BEWO is OK but so is Bafang. You are a bit too arrogant and therefore annoying. I am maried to a Cypriot woman and know a bit of the over the top mentality of men there.

 

[ziltoid81]

Keep calm......

Im using my BBS01 every day to commute to work.
Now i got 7000km on it with zero issues.
I go trough water with a fender that throws it right to the motor.
I ride in dust, snow, ice, heat.
Sometimes the bike stays outside in icy weather.

The little BBS versions are not so bad.

 

[bgt]

Keep calm......Im using my BBS01 every day to commute to work.Now i got 7000km on it with zero issues. I go trough water with a fender that throws it right to the motor.I ride in dust, snow, ice, heat.Sometimes the bike stays outside in icy weather. The little BBS versions are not so bad.

I have now driven 1500km with 1 off my 250W BBS-01's......so yes, no problem here too.

 

[bgt]

Kiriakos, try to be a bit more humble. BEWO is OK but so is Bafang.

You are talking to some one who has turn down Bafang motors due their problematic design and collapsible components / premature failure.I am supporting only reliable solutions, even in my work, even in the motorcycle which I drive, and today at my bicycle too.Bafang BB as is today ? it does not worth to be in the market, and I am talking as consumer here.
Thankfully there is more available options today for a consumer to investigate.And I hope to see even more in the future, not for me, because I did my choice, but a price war will keep pricing down, if you did not notice it ? Bafang solutions are also overpriced.Just admit that technology will keep improving with you OR with out you, and you will feel much better.

I believe you regarding your experiences but it is like cars............everybody wants german cars f.i and not French cars. I had many lease cars in my working live, I am a pensioner now, and always had troubles with german cars................not French&Japanese cars. Don't know why but the engines of Volkswagen, Opel, Ford always failed(blew up). I had to drive on Liquid Gas so that could be a reason. Its the same with every piece of hardware...........you can have luck or bad luck.
It is personal so even if Bewo is much more rigid you can still use a Bafang with ultimate pleasure and endurance. We will see.

 

[bgt]

Is the Bewo programmable too? Are you able to put the maximum speed on the display and controller to 40km/u too?

 

[ziltoid81]

Keep calm......

Im using my BBS01 every day to commute to work.
Now i got 7000km on it with zero issues.

In all those months at ES I have not seen even one picture of Bafang display controller with recorded total trip distance, please post one.
Thanks.

I dont think i have to prove anything to you but anyway.....

Unfortunately i reset the total count. If you know the 961 display this happens easily.

But my runtastic stats are saved on the runtasic server.
Ive been without a smartphone for round 1,5 weeks so theese are the missing 230km.
Some trips here and there are not recorded too.

But this proves nothing either cause some people are always think others will lie all the time.
Maye they think others must be the same like him/her. :wink:

Now you can argue the runtastic stats are fake.....even if i post a display picture there is a magic tool named photoshop.

But why should i lie? Makes no sense.

 

[bgt]

I believe you regarding your experiences but it is like cars............everybody wants german cars f.i and not French cars. I had many lease cars in my working live, I am a pensioner now, and always had troubles with german cars................not French&Japanese cars. Don't know why but the engines of Volkswagen, Opel, Ford always failed(blew up). I had to drive on Liquid Gas so that could be a reason. Its the same with every piece of hardware...........you can have luck or bad luck. It is personal so even if Bewo is much more rigid you can still use a Bafang with ultimate pleasure and endurance. We will see.

I am second generation electrician my father was freelancer cars electrician, my toys were cables and broken car parts and tools at 1980.He fall in love with TOYOTA because they did first correct placement of electrical system parts and was so easy to get a hand over it for troubleshooting and repair, compared to France cars that for sparks plugs replacement you need to take half engine apart.The problem today with Bafang is that if anything go wrong, especially if such a thing belong to a kid, that the problem becomes automatically a problem of the family budget.Definably gentle use and no acrobatics will prologue the service life of any appliance, and I wish every one to act like that no matter the maker of his KIT.
I am an electrician who repair things and this simile to a doctor, and I prefer not seeing damaged goods around me. :wink:

Hey, I am an electronic engineer too. I developped UHF RFID systems in my working life, was in R&D...really nice job. I dont like broken things too. My French car, a C5 III Tourer is very solid too. Just love it :lol: No problems with spark plugs :wink:

 

[dirkdiggler]

I don't know why, but this is one of the more interesting threads on ES. :lol: I hope I don't want to mess up the discussion by posting my thoughts!

To the Greek God:

You obviously haven't read much on ES if you haven't seen any pictures of peoples Bafangs with thousand of miles. There are a ton of pictures in the BBS threads. I do find it comical that the Bewo is the greatest piece of machinery invented in the history of mankind. It is great to know that the Bewo will handle a flat commute on a Walmart bike at speeds of up to 15kmh for thousand of klicks. They should have used plastic parts as the kit isn't meant for much abuse at those watts. I bet a wood gear would be up to the task, but I'm not an electrician, so I don't know.

I personally have about a thousand miles with my 750w Bafang on rough trails. I ride a full suspension bike up a 3000 ft. single track vertical climb that is full of rocks, holes,tree stumps and small animals at speeds over 30 mph. My first bike frame with the Bafang broke due to the trails I ride. I've gone through multiple batteries. As of yet, I have had no issues with the year old Bafang and it is the first gen model. When something better comes along for my needs, I'll jump on that.

I'm happy that your bike is doing what you want, but to slam another product just because you feel it is inferior isn't appropriate. It fits those users need. I would blow that Bewo controller and motor on my first ride, not to mention your bike would fall apart and the v-brakes would put me over the edge. I don't ridicule you for your nancy bike and setup. If I was commuting with a bike it would be a completely different setup than what I ride now. Realize that there are many more intelligent individuals on ES than you, with better knowledge of electrical and mechanical systems. That is why I like being here. Some of the brightest minds and abilities are on here. I've read a lot of boasting from you, but very little brilliance. You bought a kit, and installed it. That doesn't show much from such an incredible mind. It doesn't sound like you want to hear or take anyone else's advice though.

I'm waiting to see you overvolt that kit or add a bigger motor to it. That is what got me intrigued by the Bewo kit. It looks very hackable. Endless Sphere isn't a consumer website!

Anyway, back to the Grexit. I wish you no ill will. Hopefully you don't change your opinions, because I do enjoy the comedy!

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks, I like you too!

Strangely, I discovered after reading earlier parts of this thread, that you and kiriakos once displayed a considerable amount of man-love towards one another. I haven't got to the part when this went south and the man-love turned sour. Though, given his attitude, I'm betting he was the instigator of the relationship failure.

I haven't decided yet if he's for real or just a troll winding people up - if he's the latter, you have to applaud him for a job well done. If the former, I think he probably lives alone as even his mama would have kicked him out of the basement.

Hey he's alright guy. I enjoyed the exchanges and learned some from the guy. Yeah, man love. I can deal with that. It went south when it became a constant bash of anyone who buys more than 250W or anything other than a BEWO or Headway. Oddly enough I find the BEWO interesting. I have 4 Nancy bikes. I have no need, personally, for a high speed high power ride. But, I enjoy following the escapades of teslanv, iceube57, and the other power rangers. It's a big world out there and I have nothing to criticize about whatever anyone wants to build. I've learned form them all. My world is expanding and growing over the last year. I suppose I should just STFU, but all this vitriol for Bafang is just plain ridiculous. It's a great hobby and I enjoy nearly every aspect. I'd like to learn more about the BEWO, but no one has done what has been done with the BBS, no one has torn one down and shown what makes it tick. Something our Greek friend calls stupid. Something I call important if I am to invest any time and $$ into BEWO. Sadly he's unwilling to share any details and takes them to PM. A real shame for BEWO AND ES, no one learns that way except the recipient of the PM's. I vote troll when it comes to having an adult conversation about mid drives.

Nancy, I like that. New name for my number one bike. THAT cracked me up...

 

[tahustvedt]

Kiriakos, try to be a bit more humble. BEWO is OK but so is Bafang.

You are talking to some one who has turn down Bafang motors due their problematic design and collapsible components / premature failure.
I am supporting only reliable solutions, even in my work, even in the motorcycle which I drive, and today at my bicycle too.

Bafang BB as is today ? it does not worth to be in the market, and I am talking as consumer here.
Thankfully there is more available options today for a consumer to investigate.
And I hope to see even more in the future, not for me, because I did my choice, but a price war will keep pricing down, if you did not notice it ? Bafang solutions are also overpriced.
Just admit that technology will keep improving with you OR with out you, and you will feel much better.

Seems to me like you blindly accepted BEWOs marketing claims, after all, the technical spec sheet says it's a "perfect design" [sic], and chose a technically inferior product. The Bafang 250 W is a better engineered product as far as I can tell. The BBS has an integrated controller with hall sensors. The BEWO requires an external controller, is not sensored, and still the motor unit is heavier and weaker. I measured the continous torque from my BBS01 250 W to 60 Nm. The Bafang is IP65 rated, the BEWO is IP54 rated. Maybe you should consider that Bafang has engineers too. The one plastic gear in the BBS01 is on the low torque side, so that was a sound engineering choice. The Bosch units have several plastic gears. "Plastic". I use acetal where it is suitable when I make gears for my designs, because it reduces noise, is lighter and has low friction. I'm sure you get what you pay for though, so that's why I'm still looking at it. It's cheap.

I only have 1400 km on my BBS01 so far, but I have five bikes that I change between, and only the one with a motor. I can't be arsed to take a photo of the odometer. Taking personal offence when someone discusses the difference between two systems is called fanboyism. I want a constructive discussion, not a hissy fit whenever I ask a question about the motor.

So, I was wondering, where is the motor freewheel on the BEWO? Seems like there's not a lot room for it on the motor shaft. I count 86 teeth on the main gear, and it's probably mod 1,25 judging from the motor dimensions, which means the motor gear is probably an 18 tooth gear (65 mm axle to axle, 43+9*1,25=65). It's hard to make out what's what in the photo posted here earlier, of what looks like the backside of the main gear. The technical specs say there's no resistance when riding without assist, so I just want to know how they did that.