Bonanza "Bulldozer" Dual PhaseRunner AWD

[kold kanuck]

Thank you very much for your reply, the link to venkat's blog was great. It is a very well written blog and explained a lot of what i have been reading here. As far as the wire goes, i see your point. I could wire the whole bike in 2/0 welding cable for free with stuff from work but if theres only 12ga. in to the controller not much point. Probably going to use these instead of andersons as i can get them for cheap and they're pretty much fool proof(which is perfect for me) plus they can be bolted down to the battery mounting board i have planned, almost like surface mount components on a pcb .

http://www.picocanada.com/images/300px/modular.jpg

Keep up the good work and once again, thankyou for your time.

ken

 

[Alan B]

Thanks for your comments, Ken.

Those look like Anderson SB50 style connectors. Can't tell which size you plan to use, they have different sizes at different current levels. I plan to use some 50 amp units in my build.

 

[kold kanuck]

Yes they are the 50 amp version good for 12 to 6 ga wire according to the catalog. Should be good for all the battery connections i need to make. Different color for different connection ie parallel,series,charger controller, hopefully to avoid KFF syndrome.

ken


ps keepup the good work your getting closer

 

[amberwolf]

Also note that the SB50 uses the same contacts as the PP75. There are two retention-force versions, too, so you can make them easier or harder to pull apart.

 

[Alan B]

Snapped some quick shots this evening of some of the parts. Not great lighting, and amazingly sharp considering exposures were about 1/6 second handheld. Slow flash was added which helps sharpness and mixes in available light for improved lighting.

Here are the DX Engineering Resin saddle blocks. They are very nicely made. I test fitted them to the tubes on the bike and they will work out well. Might be nice to find some thin rubber to put in between for better grip, but this resin appears to be slightly flexible. It is injection molded and mostly air, so the weight is low and this gives it more flexibility.

 

[Alan B]

Here are the axle components. I also added this photo to the more detailed posting on axle parts on the previous page:

 

[Alan B]

Here are some of my SB50 connectors with #6 wire pins:

 

[Alan B]

Here are a couple of the Olimex/Sparkfun ATMega128 Terminal Boards that were mentioned a ways back. I'm not ready to work on this yet, but will get to that later. I should take them out of the plastic for photos, but we do have to be careful about static. There is a significant set of functionality on these boards as well as large memory for software. Most of the hardware to do a Cycle Analyst is there (though I plan to buy a second Large Screen CA from Justin for that functionality myself). These will make great BMS controllers with an LCD user interface. Lots of possibilities. Free development tools, and a programmer is very inexpensive. They may even have a bootloader in them for loading software with just a serial port (there is a DB9 serial port on these already).

 

[amberwolf]

I should take them out of the plastic for photos, but we do have to be careful about static.

Keep in mind that the pink bags are just a type of plastic that doesnt' tend to generate static. They're not actually fully protective Anti-ESD bags, which are either solid black or metallized translucent.

 

[Alan B]

I should take them out of the plastic for photos, but we do have to be careful about static.

Keep in mind that the pink bags are just a type of plastic that doesnt' tend to generate static. They're not actually fully protective Anti-ESD bags, which are either solid black or metallized translucent.

Good point. We tend to have little trouble with static here due to the moisture content of the air just a few miles from the Bay. But I have had customers blow out one of my flashlight regulators with what was likely ESD, and I build boards with some sensitive parts, so we do have some protective gear and procedures, and I consider that in my work planning.

Phoenix must be more difficult with the dry conditions.

 

[Alan B]

Increased the detail and accuracy of the battery box. The Headways don't work in the triangle, can't fit enough for the voltage I need. So back to LiPos.

In this design I also added the saddle blocks for mounting the box to the bike tubes and sized the controller for the body instead of including the mounting tabs.

I also simplified the geometry for fabrication. Rotated one battery to better fit in a rectangular box within the triangle, plus a little below the downtube. This is getting practical to build. 18S3P 15 amp hours gives 68 volts at 3.8/cell, 1.03 kilowatt hours for 30 miles of range at 35 watt-hours per mile. Or 40 miles range at 25 watt-hours/mile (level or taking it a bit easier and pedaling more). Respectable. I should be able to make it to work and back on that. Nice.

 

[Alan B]

Thread about where to find good wire for ebikes:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16825

 

[Alan B]

More on Connectors:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21360&start=0&hilit=infineon+connectors

This place has them for sale, part way down the page:

http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES

JST connector page:

http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/eSM.pdf

Jason's connector bag of the various JST's: (ConBag)

http://ebikes.ca/store/store_connectors.php

 

[Alan B]

So what happens if we use the plastic saddle blocks on the bike tubes and support a pair of side panels with them. Start with triangular panels, and extend as needed to cover the components. This is fairly straightforward to implement. The side panels could be 1/4" plywood, plastic or even thinner aluminum.

The advantage of this is a bit more battery capacity and hiding the components better, and most of the wiring.

This arrangement can get back to 18S4P 20 amp-hour battery capacity. Even at a fairly high energy consumption rate of 35 watt hours per mile this is about 40 miles of range (65 km for our metric friends). Is this too much range?

The weight of 12 each 6S 5AH lipos is 24 pounds. Is this reasonable?? Is this too much weight??

Dogman got his 18S 6x10 running. Perhaps he will comment on top speed, hill climbing and motor heating??

 

[Alan B]

This ebike is not going to be all that stealth. I'm going to try to keep it neat and serviceable, but there is too much stuff onboard for much stealth.

Thinking about upgrading the throttle to Magura.

This will give me some shifter problems. Lots of ways to approach that.

Wish someone made a left hand side dual twist shifter. Half for each derailleur. Can sort of do that by mounting one backwards on the bar. Anyone tried that?

 

[Alan B]

OK. Got the Magura throttle bug. Ordered one. Giving up on stealth on this build, just make it look nice and work really well.

Have to figure out what to do with the shifter. Maybe some bar-ends as was suggested waay back in this thread.

Weather here is really turning nice. After a couple weeks of stormy cold rain. Floods really.

A package is stuck at the post office. Probably my 4mm bullets.

 

[Alan B]

Yep. 4mm bullets R in.

 

[Alan B]

A tip from the Magura throttle thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26283 :

...

re: wiring... I run my Magura with a 12fet Infineon i found a 1k resistor on the Magura blue wire and a 3k resistor on the black eliminates all dead spots, works perfect.

Hope this helps.

KiM

Thanks for the tip, KiM! Will give that a try!!

The Magura throttle is a 5K pot, so it goes from 0 to full voltage, and the Infineon controllers don't respond to the ends of the range. So part of the throttle won't be useful. Adding the resistors fixes this.

 

[Alan B]

JST connector update

FYI - JST connectors stands for Japan Solderless Terminals

Ejecting JST-SM Pins

There are small tabs locking the pins in the connector body, forcing a small jewelers screwdriver from the pin side along the flat side of pin (away from the connector lock) will release the lock. The connector body is damaged in this operation and should be replaced. Extra parts may be obtained from ebikes.ca, Digikey or Mouser.

Hubmotor Axle Hardware

I was able to remove the hall connector body (JST-SM 5 pin male) from the pins and update the axle hardware on the wire side. The non wire side is much easier since there are no wires going through the parts. I really wish they would take the wires out alongside the axle instead of through it. Make the bearings larger. Then the torque arm could possibly mount on on the inside and there would be much better space.

The weather here has turned really nice. We are expecting a small rainstorm this weekend but it was sunny and about 80 degrees today.

 

[Alan B]

Made some 9C 6x10 Hubmotor progress. Reamed the rim for the tube neck, applied rim tape, tube, and Schwalbe Big Apple installed.

Trying to decide now whether to install it on the bike with the old controller (or wait till the new controller and battery setup is done). Tempting... The old controller won't take more voltage so if I do install the 6x10 it will be running on 50V so it will have 40% more torque and 40% less speed. Have to sort out the halls and phase windings...

The Magura throttle arrived. Very nice.

 

[Alan B]

Installed 9C 6x10 hubmotor on bike. Made new torque strut to replace the first one I made from soft aluminum, remade with 6061 T6. Readjusted rear V brake.

The "D" washer from ebikes.ca is a smaller Outside Diameter since it is made as a spacer for wider freewheels and will clear on the inside. This turns out to be excellent on the derailleur side, as the larger "toothed" D washer was interfering with the derailleur mounting. Nice!

The wiring is not quite compatible. The phase wires are powerpole 30's, which is fine, and the hall cable is 5 pin JST-SM, but both plugs are now same type so won't mate. Will have to do something there.

Also, one hall wire pulled out on the controller side, so that will have to be repaired.

It is really too bad these vendors can't standardize on connectors!!

The NordLock washers cinched up nicely. The axle hardware looks good!

 

[johnrobholmes]

does the little jst hall connector slide through the axle nuts?

It is too bad we can't get some standards going in the US. We know that the standard china connectors aren't so great, we just need to find something that everybody can agree on.

 

[Alan B]

The 5 pin JST-SM connector is a bit too wide to fit through the axle hardware, unfortunately.

Progress Update

During the rear wheel install one of the wires on the hall connector pulled out of the pins. This is on the cycle9 cable. The wires were crimped but not with the correct tool. While I was trying to fix that another came out. Since that connector was not compatible with the new 6x10 wheel anyway, I pulled on all the wires and they all came out.

So I dug up my very old Waldom crimper for Molex. Very cheap type crimper, but it is almost the right size for these JST-SM. I tested it and the wires did not pull out. So I went ahead and crimped it up. Not knowing how to install the wires, I just started by matching colors. Both on the halls and on the phase wires.

I fired up the controller and gently applied power. The wheel turned slowly and smoothly. Forward even. Amazing. Current was very low, and unloaded top speed was about 24mph at 50 volts. Nothing was heating up, the current remained low at all throttle settings. So I took it out for a ride!!!

Thinking all the time, that was too easy!

Took it on my very hilly loop. Even went a few more hills than usual. On 50V (12S1P 5AH Turnigy) this 6x10 is right at 20 mph top speed. It slows down on the hills but at lower speed climbs better than the 9x7 (same controller, voltage and settings). It doesn't really feel stronger, but it doesn't fall off the speed as easily as the 9x7. Clearly it needs more voltage to shine.

Energy consumption for the trip was 33 watt hours per mile. About the same as usual, but I added more hills and pedaled less.

The new rear XTR V brake is great. Feels wonderful and stops a lot better than the Tektro. When I got back and checked temperatures the rear rim was hotter than the front disc (was using both). The motor was just detectably warm, the controller was cold.

The only negative I noticed was a resonance at 15 mph climbing hard. Other than that it was pretty quiet. It does seem a bit noisier than the 9x7, hardly ever could hear that. Part of it may be the lower speed, the wind is not covering it up.

 

[amberwolf]

Interesting that the resonance is at 15MPH on the 6x10; that's the same as my 9C 9x7 (which also has one at a hair above 20MPH, starting from just below that speed).

So it isn't the actual wind, which I had suspected at one point, or else it'd (probably) have to be different speeds for different winds. Still something to do with electrical stuff, particularly current flow (and thus magnetic fields), as it doesn't happen unless the wheel is powered and under some load.

I expect that with the right controller, it might go away or change, compared to the Xie-Chang ("infineon") controllers I've tried so far.

 

[Alan B]

Interesting that the resonance is at 15MPH on the 6x10; that's the same as my 9C 9x7 (which also has one at a hair above 20MPH, starting from just below that speed).

So it isn't the actual wind, which I had suspected at one point, or else it'd (probably) have to be different speeds for different winds. Still something to do with electrical stuff, particularly current flow (and thus magnetic fields), as it doesn't happen unless the wheel is powered and under some load.

I expect that with the right controller, it might go away or change, compared to the Xie-Chang ("infineon") controllers I've tried so far.

I wonder if it changes with voltage, since the PWM duty cycle will shift. Have you tried different voltage?